5 Kw/h Limitation

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

A bit of a strange question.

To start up a business in a non industrial area, I was told that power consumption cannot exceed 5KW/H, if more a special permit is needed.

Few questions that I have:

1: Is this true?

2: If so, how is that being measured/done?

3: Is it done by installing a power box (sorry do not know the right English word for it) that limits the power consumption to 5 KW peak power max?

4: Or, do they just measure the total power consumption and divide by working hours?

For your info there is one device that is used about 20 minutes per hour and using 7.5 KW/h so that would be a usage of 2.5 KW.

When calculating the total power usage per hour it would not exceed 5KW/H.

Any advice/comments are greatly appreciated.

Apologies for my bad English.

Alex

[soundman]

Don't know if it is true or just an amphur specific thing, but I've never heard of it.

You have a building with three aircons, a microwave & a kettle or water heater - that will exceed 5kw hours easily.

My house easily exceeds a 5kw hour limitation during the early evenings.

[Cyberstar]

To start up a business in a non industrial area, I was told that power consumption cannot exceed 5KW/H, if more a special permit is needed.

For your info there is one device that is used about 20 minutes per hour and using 7.5 KW/h so that would be a usage of 2.5 KW.

When calculating the total power usage per hour it would not exceed 5KW/H.

My house easily exceeds a 5kw hour limitation during the early evenings.

There's a little mix up of two different things here: power consumption and energy consumption. The former is required energy per second (Watt) - the kW/H is a "senseless misspeling" inasmuch as the "per time" thing is included in the 'W'.

I don't know about any regulations neither, but It would make a lot of sense if there were requirements for special permits for highly power consuming equipment, because no power plant has unlimited capacity and blackouts are the natural consequence in the very same split second power consumption in the area exceeds capacity of power plant.

Most electric equipment has a label that tells its power consumption - look for a number followed by kW or W, and that's the number AlexLah needs to know to determine whether he exceeds some limit - e.g. my microwave oven has a label that says 800 W, so I need to get that amount of power delivered each and every second. (If I let it run for one hour it will have consumed 800 Wh of energy, but that's a different story.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Cyberstar

[AlexLah]

Cyberstar, can you elaborate on the Watt thingy?

I am a bit confused.

Cheers,

Alex

[elkangorito]

I can see the "experts" are already making mistakes. However, let's just see how far they will go before asking the "right" questions" &/or providing the "right" answers.

If you really want to get a good answer, ask Crossy or David96...nobody else knows the real answer. As for me, I've given up...too many "experts". From now on, people will pay for my knowledge (I bet this will get some attention...NOT!). Then again, Crossy or David96 may feel the same way? In which case, you're stuffed. If you really are happy with the unqualified statements of "all & sundry", be it on your own head.

Good luck & don't get electrocuted.

[Bpraim1]

I just got a 15/45kw meter in Khun Han, Just stopped at the Electric building and showed them my building plan and they came around and said I would need more then 5/15kw meter. And all was settled. They will be back in Three weeks when house is finished to hook up. FOr now I have a temp meter.

[Cyberstar]

I could try by replying more directly to your OP. I'm merely talking on basis of classroom physics and know very little about how the electricians implement those things beyond house hold level. Neither do I know anything about Thai regulations - for all I know there might be restrictions on both power consumption and energy consumption or there might be no restrictions on either.

I was told that power consumption cannot exceed 5KW/H, if more a special permit is needed.

As soundman says: that'll be like an ordinary household (regardless whether we talk power or energy) - 5 MW sounds more reasonable for a special permit

1: Is this true?

2: If so, how is that being measured/done?

Well, on a household meter the Watt consumption would be reflected in how fast the meter spins and the energy consumption would be the numbers you read (on the meter and on your bill).

3: Is it done by installing a power box (sorry do not know the right English word for it) that limits the power consumption to 5 KW peak power max?

I don't know how its done in real life, but a simple way to make sure your factory didn't exceed its power consumption limit would be to install a fuse that blew when you exceed.

4: Or, do they just measure the total power consumption and divide by working hours?

No. Total power consumption is measured per second.

For your info there is one device that is used about 20 minutes per hour and using 7.5 KW/h so that would be a usage of 2.5 KW.

If there was a 5 KW restriction on power consumption your device is born off limit. If there was a 5 KWH restriction on energy consumption your device could run 40 minutes. You would then need to know the time frame for energy restriction to determine when you can turn it on again - tomorrow, next week, next year?

[Cyberstar]

From now on, people will pay for my knowledge (I bet this will get some attention...NOT!). Then again, Crossy or David96 may feel the same way? In which case, you're stuffed. If you really are happy with the unqualified statements of "all & sundry", be it on your own head.

Good luck & don't get electrocuted.

I'm sure OP appreciate you helpfulness.

[elkangorito]

Just as I thought...nobody knows anything...about electricity.

...and no, you will not be enlightened on this matter, by me.

Edited December 7, 2007 by elkangorito

[elkangorito]

From now on, people will pay for my knowledge (I bet this will get some attention...NOT!). Then again, Crossy or David96 may feel the same way? In which case, you're stuffed. If you really are happy with the unqualified statements of "all & sundry", be it on your own head.

Good luck & don't get electrocuted.

I'm sure OP appreciate you helpfulness.

I was very helpful. See the bolded above.

[AlexLah]

From now on, people will pay for my knowledge (I bet this will get some attention...NOT!). Then again, Crossy or David96 may feel the same way? In which case, you're stuffed. If you really are happy with the unqualified statements of "all & sundry", be it on your own head.

Good luck & don't get electrocuted.

I'm sure OP appreciate you helpfulness.

I was very helpful. See the bolded above.

elkangorito, I thought we are here to help eachother for free. If you wanna start your own consulting bizz feel free to place an add in the respective forum topic.

[elkangorito]

elkangorito, I thought we are here to help eachother for free. If you wanna start your own consulting bizz feel free to place an add in the respective forum topic.

I guess that depends upon the quality of help you want. There is a plethora of electrical "experts" here to give you "free" advice. As I pointed out, I would only trust 2 people with this type of advice (besides myself).

Quite frankly & as another member has said once before, I'm pissed off at how anything vaguely electrical is "challenged" to the max by people who generally know bugger all (nothing) about electricity & its application in society. Therefore, I am willing to let the "experts" solve all of your problems for "free".

Good luck. I hope you or others don't die from the "free" advice.

There! I've said it....& now, goodbye & goodluck!

[GuestHouse]

I see the Prima Donna has spoken.

[Cyberstar]

As I pointed out, I would only trust 2 people with this type of advice (besides myself)...

Well, you certainly don't convince anyone with that kind of judgment... You're probably the only one on this board that wouldn't consider a simple calculation of power consumption to be far below the skill level of professional electricians.

[GuestHouse]

Alex, if I where you I would ask your local electricity office to send and engineer over to do a survey of your electrical installation and the equipment that you are using.

You haven't said who told you there is a limit on your power consumption but if it is a representative of the electric company then you may find the reason is either the Electrical Load Capability of the feed to your property and/or the Electrical Load Capability of your own installation.

You have stated that your business is not in an industrial area, it may be that the whole installation between street supply to your outlet sockets is designed for domestic use and not capable of carrying the higher loads you may be using.

It is important to get this sorted out because overloading the circuits may cause power loss to yourself, and if oversized fuses/breakers have been installed you may be running a risk of fire from overloaded cables.

There may be added problems if you are using large electric motors or welding machines but again your local electricity supply company can send a qualified engineer to help find the right solution to your particular usage.

Start by asking at your electricity supply company I'm sure they will be able to help with advice and a recommendation of a installation contractor if you need to change your installation.

I'm sure they'd have a lot better attitude than the condescending <deleted> above.

------

As I pointed out, I would only trust 2 people with this type of advice (besides myself)...

Well of course you wouldn't - BUT YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL YOUR SERVICES hardly independent advice then.

Edited December 7, 2007 by GuestHouse

[soundman]

Reading through a post or topic like this can be mildly amusing.

It reminds me of the plethora of sound engineers I deal with on a daily basis, all who know more than "anyone" else, have more experience than "everybody" else, however who are always struggling to find work because "nobody" else knows what they are doing & they can't work to that standard because it is below their level of expertise. Sound engineers can be a funny lot & hard to understand at times.

OP asked a question as to whether there is a limitation to a specified electricity consumption when running a business in a non industrial area.

As far as I know there isn't, however, if you are going to be using more electricty than is available in that part of the grid, it is reasonable to assume, that the electricity company wil ask you to pay for the lines, power poles & transformers to supply your needs.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Bpraim1]

Sound answer from the Soundman!

[Naam]

i don't consider myself to be an "electrical" expert but i can reasonably judge what technical rubbish some participants spread quite often in this forum when it concerns "electrical, airconditioning and/or energy saving". therefore i understand that "Kangorito" goes into hiding.

[AlexLah]

Ok so far thanks all for your replies, all are greatly appreciated.

The guy that came looking at the premises (from the company the electrical equipment is bought from) mentioned it.

Now my Thai is not that good and his English being on the same level as my Thai (Very litlle) there might be some kind of misunderstanding.

Now that I think about it he might have said that the current power supply is not capable of handling more then 5 KW as otherwise the fuse blows, makes sense and therefore

new transformers, power poles are needed and that is why you need to go to the electrical office to apply for having that installed, modified, whatever.

Anyway will contact the respective department and see what comes out of it.

The picture is getting more clear.... ha ha.

Let you all know how the story unfolds.

Cheers all!

Alex

[tjo o tjim]

Standard, general purpose electrical meters are 220V, 30A. Presumably, they are 80% rated, which would match the 5kW stated.

How much power do you need; do you need three-phase power or just single phase? The typical approach is to get multiple meters if your consumption is under ~8kW, or to go a larger three-phase service if you need anything larger. If the utility won't offer three-phase service (which is common with PEA on the islands), you are out of luck.

[naka]

Alex.

The Electric company need to know your "Maximum Demand" i.e. the maximum expected load over a given time,

this calculation is based on a combination of known loads and some assumptions.

Best bet for you is to make a list of all the equipment you intend to use and present this

to the company rep.

Naka.

[elkangorito]

Standard, general purpose electrical meters are 220V, 30A. Presumably, they are 80% rated, which would match the 5kW stated.

No, they are not.

How much power do you need; do you need three-phase power or just single phase? The typical approach is to get multiple meters if your consumption is under ~8kW (I think you mean "over"), or to go a larger three-phase service if you need anything larger. If the utility won't offer three-phase service (which is common with PEA on the islands), you are out of luck.

At what "point" does one need a 3 phase service?

Alex.

The Electric company need to know your "Maximum Demand" i.e. the maximum expected load over a given time,

this calculation is based on a combination of known loads and some assumptions.

Incorrect. You are talking about the "other" type of maximum demand, in which time is a factor. There are 2 types (as such)...one that relates to time (15 minutes) & the other, which has no relation to time.

Best bet for you is to make a list of all the equipment you intend to use and present this

to the company rep.

My bet is that they wouldn't have the faintest idea what to do with a "list of equipment", besides "have a guess". And now my "guess" is that if they "have a guess", you will pay an arm & a leg for your "prospective load" when your should/could otherwise be saving money on the installation.

Naka.

[percy2]

Glad to see the OP has been given some good advice.

Other posts are...

a miserable waste of bandwidth

Cheers

[GuestHouse]

At the risk of a pun - more negativity from our Jobbing Sparky.

No help whatsoever given to the OP just a handful of 'I know best' posts that are of no use at all to the OP (who has asked the question here).

Methinks someone around here would rather others didn't get access to free help and advice on electrical matters.

It is my view that their are plenty of good Thai electricians and electrical engineers around - All TV members need is help in asking the right questions of Thai electricians and electrical engineers and advice on what to look out for.

What non of us actually need is people who are running a business deriding the sharing of information on this website because .... well because access to information is not good for business.

[naka]

Standard, general purpose electrical meters are 220V, 30A. Presumably, they are 80% rated, which would match the 5kW stated.

No, they are not.

How much power do you need; do you need three-phase power or just single phase? The typical approach is to get multiple meters if your consumption is under ~8kW (I think you mean "over"), or to go a larger three-phase service if you need anything larger. If the utility won't offer three-phase service (which is common with PEA on the islands), you are out of luck.

At what "point" does one need a 3 phase service?

Alex.

The Electric company need to know your "Maximum Demand" i.e. the maximum expected load over a given time,

this calculation is based on a combination of known loads and some assumptions.

Incorrect. You are talking about the "other" type of maximum demand, in which time is a factor. There are 2 types (as such)...one that relates to time (15 minutes) & the other, which has no relation to time.

Best bet for you is to make a list of all the equipment you intend to use and present this

to the company rep.

My bet is that they wouldn't have the faintest idea what to do with a "list of equipment", besides "have a guess". And now my "guess" is that if they "have a guess", you will pay an arm & a leg for your "prospective load" when your should/could otherwise be saving money on the installation.

Naka.

And exactly how would he go about "saving money on the installation" in your opinion ?

Naka.