Using Someone Else's Wireless

[nikster]

Interesting article on the BBC news about the morality of using someone else's open WiFi connection.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6960304.stm

I have always though that there is no such thing as a victim-less crime. If no harm is done, can it be illegal?

And this comment certainly puts a new perspective on things:

I have not asked, nor do I particularly want to be irradiated by the wireless networks from my neighbours - I can pick up about a dozen. If it enters my house, I should be able to do with it what I want. Don't like it? Get wired!

[apetley]

If you are using it at the same time then it slows down his connection. Does he then become a victim?

[Crossy]

If the owner can't be arsed to secure his connection then I'll 'borrow' it when out and about. That said, I don't take the piss and fill his pipe with P2P, a bit of email checking and web surfing which probably won't even get noticed.

My WiFi connection at home (in Thailand to keep this Thai related) is open, anyone is welcome to use it and so long as they don't affect my enjoyment why not

I do monitor usage and (although it's not happened yet) I will block the MAC address of any abusers.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Crossy

[Prakanong]

Mine was open but now I have secured it.

There are so many in my condo anyway I bet nearly everyone has it

Thinking about moving to mobile wireless anyway as my supposed 6mb is not that and the wireless I have tested is much faster at 3

[kayo]

I came on here to "rant" about the fact that there is aan open thread about this.

BUT...

I can't be arsed searching the forum for it either.

Crossy. how do you monitor the usage of somebody who is using your WiFi network?

How do you even know who is using it?

I ask, because I have now my own (since about 8 months) and would like to know who is accessing it in my relatively clsoe-knit neighbourhood.

Edited December 11, 2007 by kayo

[lazeeboy]

I came on here to "rant" about the fact that there is aan open thread about this.

BUT...

I can't be arsed searching the forum for it either.

Crossy. how do you monitor the usage of somebody who is using your WiFi network?

How do you even know who is using it?

I ask, because I have now my own (since about 8 months) and would like to know who is accessing it in my relatively clsoe-knit neighbourhood.

i used wireless from a hotel outside my house for almost a year ,they;ve now locked it ,i put in a router and lock it straight away ,if they cant lock it its there problem ,and your good luck .

[Collie]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks leave their wireless links unsecured. Wireless is relatively easy to hack as it is, WPA security is a must, but if it is open its a piece of cake for anyone to hack your information as it is sent over the airwaves unencrypted.

Its good to find an unsecured link occasionally, but do bear in mind that anything you do over this link could be monitored, perhaps it is left open intentionally to lift any personal info you may enter. SO use open connections with care, I certainly wouldn't recommend doing a quick inet bank account check on one

Also bear in mind that if the connection is open, generally the security password for the router will probably be unchanged from the default too. So anyone can easily find the default password and if they want to, lock you out of your own network! So as a minimum make sure your router admin password has been changed.

[monty]

If the owner can't be arsed to secure his connection then I'll 'borrow' it when out and about. That said, I don't take the piss and fill his pipe with P2P, a bit of email checking and web surfing which probably won't even get noticed.

My WiFi connection at home (in Thailand to keep this Thai related) is open, anyone is welcome to use it and so long as they don't affect my enjoyment why not

I do monitor usage and (although it's not happened yet) I will block the MAC address of any abusers.

Have to be bloody careful though, if they use your connection to send out spam (you wouldn't know apart from the fact 1 e-mail went through, although one with a shitload of recipients), or even worse, use your connection to upload kiddie porn, then you might find yourself in heaps of problems!

I used to think this was a very remote possibility, until a few years ago my ISP blocked my access after their monitoring software detected that a lot of "bad" websites got accessed from my IP address. This broadband access was shared by 7 condo's rented out short time to tourists, so one of them happened to be a bad apple!

Took me a lot of explaining and supporting paperwork along with pictures of the condo's to convince them not to forward anything to the man in brown, and to open up access again...(for reference, this was about 6 years ago, and the connection was IPTV, one-way satellite access supplied by cscoms, before they merged with loxinfo)

[yeti]

My WiFi connection at home (in Thailand to keep this Thai related) is open, anyone is welcome to use it and so long as they don't affect my enjoyment why not

I'd say this is very dangerous given the laws in Thailand.

Don't forget that if someone uses your connection to post something bad about you know who, or anything that can be considered as a "threat to national security" you'll end up in jail in no time.

[LivinLOS]

Its good to find an unsecured link occasionally, but do bear in mind that anything you do over this link could be monitored, perhaps it is left open intentionally to lift any personal info you may enter. SO use open connections with care, I certainly wouldn't recommend doing a quick inet bank account check on one

What net bank would not be running https anyway ??? Secured from browser to server..

Wheres the problem in this ??

[Collie]

Its good to find an unsecured link occasionally, but do bear in mind that anything you do over this link could be monitored, perhaps it is left open intentionally to lift any personal info you may enter. SO use open connections with care, I certainly wouldn't recommend doing a quick inet bank account check on one

What net bank would not be running https anyway ??? Secured from browser to server..

Wheres the problem in this ??

True enough, Id just rather trust the connection Im using. ID's and passwords would be very easy to pick up if using non encrypted sites on an open wireless link.

[Crossy]

If the owner can't be arsed to secure his connection then I'll 'borrow' it when out and about. That said, I don't take the piss and fill his pipe with P2P, a bit of email checking and web surfing which probably won't even get noticed.

My WiFi connection at home (in Thailand to keep this Thai related) is open, anyone is welcome to use it and so long as they don't affect my enjoyment why not

I do monitor usage and (although it's not happened yet) I will block the MAC address of any abusers.

Have to be bloody careful though, if they use your connection to send out spam (you wouldn't know apart from the fact 1 e-mail went through, although one with a shitload of recipients), or even worse, use your connection to upload kiddie porn, then you might find yourself in heaps of problems!

I used to think this was a very remote possibility, until a few years ago my ISP blocked my access after their monitoring software detected that a lot of "bad" websites got ..........

..(for reference, this was about 6 years ago, and the connection was IPTV, one-way satellite access supplied by cscoms, before they merged with loxinfo)

Point well taken

We are in a somewhat remote location, half a dozen MAC addresses connect regularly for short times so I'm assuming they are checking mail (from the Japanese restaurant downstairs probably) and hopefully not sending spam.

BTW does MY external IP address get tagged in a sent email, I see only the sending SMTP server address in the headers and they're not using my ISPs outgoing server.

Maybe I'm being naive but I believe in giving something back to a community that I use (by borrowing others connections).

I'm experimenting (playing really) with DD-WRT on my Broadcom router and using Chillispot with worldspot.net for access monitoring, maybe I should actually look at the logs

[LivinLOS]

Its good to find an unsecured link occasionally, but do bear in mind that anything you do over this link could be monitored, perhaps it is left open intentionally to lift any personal info you may enter. SO use open connections with care, I certainly wouldn't recommend doing a quick inet bank account check on one

What net bank would not be running https anyway ??? Secured from browser to server..

Wheres the problem in this ??

True enough, Id just rather trust the connection Im using. ID's and passwords would be very easy to pick up if using non encrypted sites on an open wireless link.

You should consider anything transmitted over the internet in almost the same league..

[nikster]

Its good to find an unsecured link occasionally, but do bear in mind that anything you do over this link could be monitored, perhaps it is left open intentionally to lift any personal info you may enter. SO use open connections with care, I certainly wouldn't recommend doing a quick inet bank account check on one

What net bank would not be running https anyway ??? Secured from browser to server..

Wheres the problem in this ??

There is the _very_ theoretical possibility of a man-in-the-middle attack here. I haven't heard of anyone actually doing this and my guess is that if you are out to do no good, there are many, many lower hanging fruit. That and you can only get to the 10s or 100s of people you happen to snatch with your rigged WiFi router whereas if you go out and write trojans you can snare 100s of thousands.

But the man in the middle attack is interesting, so I will elaborate. The router will basically pose as you towards the bank, accessing the https and everything, and pose as the bank towards you. So you don't know you are not accessing the bank and the bank doesn't know this is not you. You do a transaction for $200 to your auntie, and the router initiates one for $12,000 to some guy in Russia. It's interesting mainly because there is no protection from this.

I don't think any hackers are actually doing this right now. It doesn't scale very well.

[nikster]

If the owner can't be arsed to secure his connection then I'll 'borrow' it when out and about. That said, I don't take the piss and fill his pipe with P2P, a bit of email checking and web surfing which probably won't even get noticed.

My WiFi connection at home (in Thailand to keep this Thai related) is open, anyone is welcome to use it and so long as they don't affect my enjoyment why not

I do monitor usage and (although it's not happened yet) I will block the MAC address of any abusers.

Have to be bloody careful though, if they use your connection to send out spam (you wouldn't know apart from the fact 1 e-mail went through, although one with a shitload of recipients), or even worse, use your connection to upload kiddie porn, then you might find yourself in heaps of problems!

I used to think this was a very remote possibility, until a few years ago my ISP blocked my access after their monitoring software detected that a lot of "bad" websites got accessed from my IP address. This broadband access was shared by 7 condo's rented out short time to tourists, so one of them happened to be a bad apple!

Took me a lot of explaining and supporting paperwork along with pictures of the condo's to convince them not to forward anything to the man in brown, and to open up access again...(for reference, this was about 6 years ago, and the connection was IPTV, one-way satellite access supplied by cscoms, before they merged with loxinfo)

Hmm... this is a pretty good point. Even though you could prove that it wasn't you, it would take a long time and lots of legal hassle. I think I am going to go close down my connection once again now.. I am sharing it with all neighbors but will just give them the passwords...

[nikster]

True enough, Id just rather trust the connection Im using. ID's and passwords would be very easy to pick up if using non encrypted sites on an open wireless link.

Then again, any respectable site is using https for passwords. Unless it's one that just isn't security relevant...

[raro]

The advantage of an old 11 Mps card is...the signal is just good enough to reach the front gate! I doubt my next door neighbour can catch anything from my signal!

[Crushdepth]

If he's got an antenna or more sensitive card than you, he can :-)