Dumping Kids

[tijnebijn]

Sadly so it is very common for parents to abandon their children in Thailand .

Not being able but more not wanting to take any responsibility for their

own actions which resulted in a beautiful baby .

It really makes me angry seeing old people taking care of their grandchildren ,

I mean when they are abandoned , many times without or with little support .

My wife's younger sister left 2 children in Thailand , with herself making a new

life in England , she has not seen her children for eight years now , does support

them now but only for the last 2 years (probably fearing bad karma ) .

Another abandoned child is with the uncle of my wife , in his mid sixties taking

care of his 2 year old grandchild , miss runaway is not his real child in blood too ,

I feel very sorry for the good old man , miss is partying in Pattaya somewhere

probably with a farang .

Anyway its a very sad happening , with much appreciation and respect for the elders ,

you cannot leave the child also can you ? It is a situation chosen by those youngsters

which is taken advantage of , negatively using the good spirits of others ,

choosing the easy way with no responsibilities , sad sad very sad .

[surface]

I also know many Thai's who have done this, and I find it disturbing that it seems to be so accepted here.

My current gal has two children and a nephew living with her, who were being raised by an aunt for several years. While the kids do have loving, educated, (divorced) parents, there doesn't seem to be much interest in actually raising the children from either of them.

Pop doesn't help mom with child support (reliably anyway) as he wants her to "fail" at raising them (which obviously means financially fail) and get the kids to live with him. In the meantime, instead of attending a private school which he can afford to send them to, they attend a local public school which they don't like as they previously attended a private school and are well aware of the level of education they are receiving. So to get a hold of the kids he loves so much, he punishes them. In this instance, having the kids is more important than actually raising and providing a quality education for them.

Mom works hard, and has the nephew at home when the kids get back from school and after school sports activities, but she doesn't think spending time with them other than a few hours a week is necessary. Whenever I ask her if she should be home with her boys, she says no need, her 16 year old nephew is there to watch them. I asked her if she wants a 16 year old drinking, smoking, high school dropout "raising" her sons, but she doesn't think it matters as she is there in the morning and perhaps a few hours or a full day on the weekends. Seems to be enough just to make sure there is food on the table and having a "man" around to serve as a male role model ( ) and keep them safe.

The sad thing to me is that these children are in a better situation than most in Thailand, but I still find it odd and insufficient being from the west since everything except the actual raising of them is being provided.

I can safely say I would never want to have children with a Thai as I have different ideas on what it takes to raise a child than most Thais do. From my experience, it's extremely hard to get a Thai to understand a differing point of view, and nearly impossible to get them to change their ways with regards to that point of view. As long as this Thai family structure of having others raise their children continues to exist and proliferate, future generations will never feel the need to have more of a role in their own childrens upbringing, for better or for worse.

[torrenova]

Got that in the village, kids having kids, kids still attractive, still want a life beyond parenthood, so they just give up the baby to the grandparents and wash their hands of it.

At the place I work, we have a lot of girls that have children and you would never know it if you did not see them while they were pregnant. They have their baby, pass it on up the road (Isan) and never really speak of their baby again. This is even with married girls.

It seems to me, here, you do not raise your child, you raise your grandchild.

I see this all the time. The desire to enjoy their youth far outweighs the need to be a parent. The fact is that they do not have good role models and thus have not learned by example. In the UK there is a similar culture which has been bred amongst multiple generations of unemployed, living on the state handouts. They have no role model to work and dump their kids, usually temporarily, on their parents or grandparents so they can "enjoy" life.

[KKK]

I think that the change in values imposed on society in general (not only Thailand) via consumerism has brought about this attitude that "dumping" kids is OK. It is also probably to blame for the large number of runaways (street-kids). The endless search by parents for money to buy a bigger TV; a newer car etc as well as laws forbiding disipline (no spanking etc.) leaves kids today without the proper care, love and attention they deserve.

I was brought up in a working class family in UK during the 50's - 60's. My mum never worked, we lived in a council house, I never had and never needed a key until I was 16yo. When I was naughty, my father spanked me and I have no hard feelings about that.

My parents never left their children unattended, only had one night out a year alone together, when grandparents would babysit. Family and kids were their sole reason for living. TV/car and other consumer goods were a much lower priority.

This was a typical household on a 2,000 plus house estate in an approx 100,000 population town in Southern england.

2 out of 3 kids went to uni or college. My parents left school at 12. Me and my sister now own our own houses, have travelled worldwide extensively and are now retired at 50 and 55 being financially independant. I thank my parents and the society and time that we grew up in for that. We were well educated, taught our P's and Q's, and worked hard to get where we both are today. We never had handouts from social-security, living just slightly above the bread-line. We never had handouts from foreign tourists buying us cars, motorbikes, gold etc. We lived entirely on love, affection, and correctly administered discipline from our parents and near relatives.

Todays' society would do well to look back and learn from the era I grew up in. Yesterday at a Thai beach I observed typical groups of Thai families. Mum, Dad, Aunt and Uncle all consuming thier whiskey-sodas on a no-alcohol day. Kids pestering parents for some love and attention "come play in the sand with me daddy", "mummy, teach me to swim". All they got was "Shut-up and stuff-up" with yet another ice-cream pushed into their already obese bodies.

Now if that aint child-abuse and a cause for todays irresponsible, arrogant, and ill-mannered youth then I don't know what is.

[Dakhar]

Are you for real? This practice is MAINSTREAM in the U.S.? Give me a break. The practice shows that most Thais have trouble bonding with their chilfdren and don't care to raise them themselves. And it has nothing to do with poverty either. I live in a moban with wealthy thais and the majority of them have their uneducated maids and nannies raising the kids. They want nothing to do with them. Life is cheap in Thailand. get used to that idea those who are planning on living here.

But there clearly is a cultural norm of leaving children with grand parents (we could debate the pros and cons of that for a few pages I'm sure)

You see this a lot in the Hispanic culture in the US. It is to the point where it is part of the culture, and it is just expected, much like Thailand....

But guess what? As the US economy goes to pot, you also see this becoming more mainstream in the US culture as well. It is a sign of the times.

What is the deal here, I write something and people change it.... you even have the tenacity to paste the quote and then change what I wrote!

Weird....? I did not state that it IS MAINSTREME.... try your best to put down the bottle put on your glasses, before reading and posting.

[Dakhar]

My wife's mother had 7 daughters, each with a different man and dumped them all with various relative. My wife was treated as a servant and was not allowed to go to school or anything. When she was 9 her aunt came from Bangkok and took her there. She was still a servant for Yai but when she reached 14 her aunt took her to the bars with her.

She's still more than a little bitter about her mother and the realtive she was dumped with. But she greatly admired her aunt who managed to work her way up to owning her own bar and was known to help the working girls.

TIT. (This Is Thailand)

A girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. She never had any kids in Thailand and was very upset when her aunt died in 1992. She attemded her parent funerals but only because of a feeling of familial obligation. But we only really miss all really miss her aunt.

Of course, I was a somewhat alcoholic American GI and she was a Bangkok bar girl. Those pairing never work out.

We've been married for 37 years now. Just to piss off the people that said it wouldn't work. We never had a marriage ceremony, just signed the book at the Amphur and went on our merry way. We are considering getting married for our 50th anniversary, if only for the children's sake.

Thai's are very interesting people. Not any better or worse than anyone else I think, just more open about it.

I'm a 911 dispatcher in the States. Tonight I had a call from a mother who was strung out on heroin that was complaining because her eldest daughter had come and taken two of her other daughters just to get them away from her drugging and abuse. Some kids need to be dumped. Their chances of trading up are very good.

Now that is an uplifting post.....

[Dakhar]

I think that the change in values imposed on society in general (not only Thailand) via consumerism has brought about this attitude that "dumping" kids is OK. It is also probably to blame for the large number of runaways (street-kids). The endless search by parents for money to buy a bigger TV; a newer car etc as well as laws forbiding disipline (no spanking etc.) leaves kids today without the proper care, love and attention they deserve.

I was brought up in a working class family in UK during the 50's - 60's. My mum never worked, we lived in a council house, I never had and never needed a key until I was 16yo. When I was naughty, my father spanked me and I have no hard feelings about that.

My parents never left their children unattended, only had one night out a year alone together, when grandparents would babysit. Family and kids were their sole reason for living. TV/car and other consumer goods were a much lower priority.

This was a typical household on a 2,000 plus house estate in an approx 100,000 population town in Southern england.

2 out of 3 kids went to uni or college. My parents left school at 12. Me and my sister now own our own houses, have travelled worldwide extensively and are now retired at 50 and 55 being financially independant. I thank my parents and the society and time that we grew up in for that. We were well educated, taught our P's and Q's, and worked hard to get where we both are today. We never had handouts from social-security, living just slightly above the bread-line. We never had handouts from foreign tourists buying us cars, motorbikes, gold etc. We lived entirely on love, affection, and correctly administered discipline from our parents and near relatives.

Todays' society would do well to look back and learn from the era I grew up in. Yesterday at a Thai beach I observed typical groups of Thai families. Mum, Dad, Aunt and Uncle all consuming thier whiskey-sodas on a no-alcohol day. Kids pestering parents for some love and attention "come play in the sand with me daddy", "mummy, teach me to swim". All they got was "Shut-up and stuff-up" with yet another ice-cream pushed into their already obese bodies.

Now if that aint child-abuse and a cause for todays irresponsible, arrogant, and ill-mannered youth then I don't know what is.

Amen

[bina]

all posts above interesting aspects of how we see proper parenting;

from what i can see of my present (thai) husband, that is what thais think raising a family is: when they are babies, they need mom or grandma, but by age 10 are seen as little adults who do not need parental guidance: the only real argueing we have is usually about why i need to be home when daughter comes home from army (israelis will break engagements, change plans, whatever, when son or daughter comes home for R&R from the army; it doesnt matter that they are over 18 yrs old , old enough to use a gun, as far as parents are concerned everything stops for their children, favorite foods are made, the house is filled with 'junk' food, etc), or why i get up to cook for 17 yr old when he comes back late at nite from pre army training course, starving for a fourth meal., or why i stay at home when 13 yr old has strep throat instead of follow thru on plans for a saturday trip... he sees them as adults completely, that do not need me around apart from commenting on whether or not they did something wrong. i feel that they need to know that i am always there for them, even if there are problems, they are sick, or whatever. its the nature/nuture type arguement. he is also a man that absolutely adores babies. they bring out a very strong protective instinct in him.

animals for the most part take care of their young until their young are eating properly, and can fend and defend for themselves; we have to take it a few steps farther, and that is the difference between cultures. some cultures, children are not children by the time they reach 10 ys old. they are old enough to fend and defend themselves, so now they can help in the household, even support the household-they are a commodity. they are not the end all of the adults (parents) but the product as a result of having parents. i believe that economics from the past probably shaped the way children are raised today in thailand as well as the majority of the world.

i am a far cry, by the way, from a majority of mothers here (the stereotypical polish/jewish mother running after her 30 yr old with a sweater shouting, you'll catch a cold dear...) in that i do leave my kids to themselves more than most, they are more independant than the majority of kids of hte same age among my socio/economic group... and often have people claim that i am an 'uninterested' mother (their way of saying 'bad' mother compared to what they feel is 'good' mothering and what i see as 'overprotectiveness'). this is one of many stereotypes however.

parenting as we know it is rather like having a hobby; books, magazines, courses, seminars to teach us how to be a better parent or a more enlightened parent... but parenting used to be: having kids, the kids grew up doing chores, working in the family as a commodity... then the kids were educated to being the welfare of the old (not just in thailand, in many countries, the grandchildren of a parent were meant to be the caretakers of the elderly while the adults continued on with their livlihoods. this is true today among the marroccan and other north african jews where the families are still multigenrational and the grandfather has the last word including in how the children are raised.) when did true 'proper parenting' come around?

when i see the jewish orthodox (my 'ruler' for measuring things here) with 8+ kids, and the oldest daughter, often not that old (8+ yrs old) taking care of the younger babies as if she were an adult i remember that 'our' style of 'enlightened' parenting is rare. but to them that is excellent parenting and training for the children.

i see the product here of children who were raised in the kibbutz style of the past (childrens houses which here stopped in 1983!!), and a majority of them DID NOT KNOW HOW TO PARENT i.e. they didnt know how to deal with differences between them and their children, what it meant to give emotional support to their kids, how to punish effectively. their role model was that they saw their parents for 3 hours of 'quality time' a day, for playing socializing, but that was that. they had no role model of 'how to be a parent'... in the nuclear, western, style ... which opens a whole can of worms; when i had explained about this kind of childcare that my previoius husband was raised in, anon was horrified that babies were raised away from FAMILY. it didnt matter to him that the babies got great health care, education, playing, and saw mom and dad, but it WASNT FAMILY. that is the difference. that the FAMILY is taking care of the children, its not as important that is is mother and father or other adults but from family and not strangers like day care. i am more or less quoting him here.

the western world has gone in the opposite direction in parenting: while children are not a commodity, parents are a commodity, a means for procuring what is needed. once they arent needed anymore, they are tossed aside, dumped, as well... while people dont dump their kids as often, there is a tendency to 'dump' the elderly parents instead. the thai are horrified by that (at least those that i speak with, again, the low economic issan agricultural group)much more than by the kids being foisted off on grandparents.

so, the cultural idea of grandparents raising children has stayed, but is now being misused as mrs. and mr. thai parent become absentee parents not because of job/economic status, but because thats the way everyone was/is raised, and mrs.and mr. thai have the time/freedom to run off and do whatever.... they do it cause they can do it.... just like in the states where kids are bought off with toys and food instead of having parents around to be with them....

dolly parton singing in the background, 'we were poor but we had lovin''....

not sure if i made sense here,

bina

israel

my daughter had pointed out to me that she felt that many of the mothers she saw in thailand when we were visiting didnt 'know how to be mothers'... as she watched interaction of children and mothers. she felt that the parents she saw clothed and fed and hugged their children but didnt seem to pay attention to bids for kids attention. one example she saw was a thai cousin of husband who has farang husband. she was visiting with her little girl... the girl was very clingy and felt out of her element being in a muubaan after living for four years in france. the mother kept trying to shake her off, leaving her alone when she slept so that the girl would wake up and scream for mom, etc.... my daughter asked me if the mother realized that the child was having a difficult time coping with the strange surroundings and why she didnt spend more time with the child and that the mother seemed more interested in 'partying' with her friends and the girl was the 'appendix'. without a doubt the mother loves her little girl, and the girl was well taken care of, but the emotional needs seem to have been put on the back burner, not cause mom is bad, she just wasnt aware... (daughter has worked in baby houses and kindergarten so has had many years of mother/child ineteraction observation).