Thai Elite Card & 5 Year Visa

[jonniebkk]

Okay, another thread about under 50s residing in Thailand. Is the purchase of a Thailand Elite Card a good way to do it? I have read recent threads on the pros and cons of the scheme. This is not a post about the viability of the program itself or if it was a good, bad, or silly idea to begin with. We all have our views on it...but accepting it on its face, my question is: Is it a viable option for someone to use to their own benefit if it meets their needs?

My situation (and also that of my friend I discussed in related post): Early 40s American, single, retired, financially secure. No wish to marry for a visa or start a company or business. No need or wish to work...just enjoy my stay in Thailand. I initially moved to Thailand for the sanook factor and ALL that entailed. However, after almost a decade here, I have not been "in" that lifestyle for many years. I am just one of many single guys who enjoy the relaxed pace of life, decent food, affordable medical and dental care, and the occasional nite out. The value for money lifestyle I would call it here in LOS. I have always abided by the letter of the law and will continue to do so. If there is no legal option for staying in LOS, I could return Stateside.

I have always been somewhat skeptical of the Thailand Elite Card. However, as visa regulations have become more and more restrictive over the years, it is starting to look like one of the few ways someone in my situation can continue to reside in Thailand. I will focus on the program's visa provisions as that is my motivation for considering membership. Any other privileges would be "icing on the cake."

I see membership as a financial proposition. From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa. The visa is renewable in perpetuity (as long as the scheme is in existence) at no additional charge. It can be extended IN-COUNTRY every 3 months [for the standard extension charge of B 1,900]. So no need for any further "visa runs" for members who chose to use their membership as a way to reside in-country.

I will calculate figures in US$ at the rate of B33 = USD 1. B 1 million is USD $ 30,303 or $ 30K. I have 8 years before I qualify for a "retirement" visa. The 30K equals $ 3,800 per year (over 8 years). Now, I have to make 4-6 visa runs per year. This is inconvenient but not too expensive. Trips to Penang are cheap and with a multi-entry visa from there, one could stay in Thailand for 2-3 months and do visa runs when necessary This is now more tenuous, and in any case, you only get 1 entry. In the future, Penang may no longer be an option and "visa runs" would have to be back to the States.

A 1-2 week trip to the US can cost $ 4,000. If I end-up going back twice a year, that's $ 8,000. The Elite membership on a yearly basis is $ 3,800. This is HALF the cost of doing 2 visa runs to the US.

Even "local" visa runs to Penang cost about $ 750 each. Doing 6 of these per year (if I have a single entry tourist visas) would be $ 4,500. Again, I am still ahead financially by $ 700 using the Elite program. Not even considering the fact it's likely some time in the not too distant future this option is likely to be eliminated and that making 6 trips a year to the same place in dam_n boring!

It seems to work financially when considering the cost of my visa runs, let alone any other member benefits. If the program is terminated there may be a financial loss. In such an event, I think it likely (just my "gut" feeling) some compensation would be provided. The visa privileges may remain in place (at a minimum what remained of your initial 5 years). That has usually been the case with other rule/law changes, with people being grandfathered in. This was the case when the 3M investment visa was discontinued. Holders were allowed to continue using them if they renewed them annually. The Thailand Privilege Card Company is a Thai government backed or "sponsored" company. I don't know the particulars but it's closely associated with the government (even if if was initiated under a former discredited one) and closing it down, without some kind of compensation to members, would be somewhat of a black eye or loss of face for the government.

Even when I qualify for a retirement visa, the ease of the Elite program probably makes it a better option. Why re-quality for an inferior visa when you already have a 5-year visa with other “elite” privileges.

Are there any faults in my reasoning for someone in my situation? Assuming that the program continues in effect for the foreseeable future or that in the even of cancellation, compensation is provided or the visa privilege remains in effect, are there any serious downsides I have overlooked?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It sounds as though you have figured it out, and Elite fits the bill. Go for it.

[Meerkat]

As one of the few TE members on the forum, I'd say that:

1) Yes, it's been a great scheme for me and thoroughly glad I bought in (about 18 months ago).

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

3) Were I in the market for membership right now, I'd probably hold off until the new government is in place and see how everything settles. The scheme is still tainted (not least by some on this forum) by its affiliation to Thaksin, and the purge may continue. Whilst I'd like to think your views of what might happen if they close the scheme are prescient regarding grandfathering, we simply have no idea of what might happen.

[LivinLOS]

I too juggle the numbers on the Elite every once in a while but look at it that its still not breaking even as a value proposition for me (my needs and lifestyle is obviously different to anyone elses)..

First point.. I have been actively managing my investments and doing ok.. pulled in 30 - 35% annual return at the moment (that was a 40% about a month or two ago but I gave back 400k or so USD which has lowered my success a little bit).. So the way I see it as any money I bring into Thailand (and this includes building a villa) 'costs' me that 30+%.. So a million baht spent on an Elite card is 300k per annum I didnt make. 300k buys a lot of visa solutions.

Now I understand most people dont actively trade thier assets, but lets just say they got 10% per annum in a unit trust, market tracker, mutual etc. Thats still 100k per annum that the same money could bring.

100k per year is possibly enough to set up a shell company, get a B visa, and live that way ?? In fact I think it would be marginally above this (I think I crunched the numbers a year or two back) but its not far off getting a B visa, paying taxes, employing 'dead' staff, paying thier taxes, getting a WP, and living here on full extensions. This means no trips out of the country, and while your tax payments would be low, is even technically in the running to work to PR, etc. Again this all looks better to me.

For me personally, I have changed from seeing visa runs as a negative, to seeing them as a nice excuse for a break in interesting places around the region or globe. As such I take vacations and thier value and costs are not really a fair part of the equation, sure I spend more in absolute terms but I enjoy the process and its a lifestyle plus. I could drive up to Ranong and do a 90 day visa run at a total cost of 1500 - 2000 baht 4 of those and one vacation which allows me to apply for a long stay visa in a year and I have a solution thats currently working.

For the absolute cheapest way I can see to have an easy stay here, I could take a 2 week vacation somewhere cheap (Bali / Cambodia if fedex works), courier my second passport back to my home country and apply for a 1 year non imm while I am outside of Thailand (not everyone has a friendly home consul, many would have to physically go to Oz or other) and have it couriered back.. Lets say 10k baht in courier costs, 7k baht for the 1 year visa, plus whatever a 2 week vacation costs maybe 40k ??).. So far I now have 1 year visa (and a holiday) for <60k.. Then if I wish to be cheap I spend 5x 2000 baht to go the rest of the 15 months I can use that and repeat. This process has a total cost of 70k baht for 15 months stay and one cheap holiday.. Thats <5k per month. If you take the vacation out of the process (and I tend to be out of Thailand a fair bit anyway) your actual visa costs come in at <30k for 15 months including all visa runs and extensions etc !!

So then I look at 30k for my annual visa issues.. Against the 300k I personally feel that spending 1 million costs me at the moment and the mil stays in my pocket.

[jonniebkk]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

[naka]

This is really a no brainer.

If a million is peanuts to you and this is your only option ... then why not ?

However on reading your post I assume a million is not peanuts to you, so only you can decide.

Naka.

[Hampstead]

The Elite Program lasted through an ultra right facing anti-taksin state and not only is it alive and well has also been endorsed by the present powers that be

The Program will be around for a good few years yet, regardless of new governments every couple of years under the present political climate

Sounds like you already answered your question of the cost reward ratio in how much time you have spent looking at the savings over the next few years

good luck

[LivinLOS]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

[Hampstead]

This is really a no brainer.

If a million is peanuts to you and this is your only option ... then why not ?

However on reading your post I assume a million is not peanuts to you, so only you can decide.

Naka.

Interesting Naka, this is your first time on this subject, where you allowed yourself to say, "then why not? if its your only option

Usually your posts on this subject are of the ultra negative, i still do not understand why you are always post such previous negative lines on this subject when i take it you live in thailand on a retirement visa, maybe you can explain

[Hampstead]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

[jonniebkk]

First point.. I have been actively managing my investments and doing ok.. pulled in 30 - 35% annual return at the moment (that was a 40% about a month or two ago but I gave back 400k or so USD which has lowered my success a little bit).. So the way I see it as any money I bring into Thailand (and this includes building a villa) 'costs' me that 30+%.. So a million baht spent on an Elite card is 300k per annum I didnt make. 300k buys a lot of visa solutions.

IF WE ASSUME AN AVERAGE RATE OF RETURN OF 10% THEN THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF BUYING THE B 1M ELITE CARD IS B 100,000 PER YEAR. THIS IS ABOUT US$ 3,000. SURE, IN A GOOD YEAR YOU MAY GET 20% AND IN A BAD YEAR SOME NEGATIVE RETURN SO LET'S JUST USE 10% FOR THIS EXAMPLE. I DON'T SEE MUCH THAT ONE COULD BUY IN TERMS OF VISAS FOR $ 3,000. MAYBE A TRIP BACK HOME FOR A MULTI OF SOME TYPE, THEN YOU STILL HAVE TO MAKE VISA RUNS EVERY 3-4 MONTHS. GRANTED, THESE COULD BE TO BORDER POSTS AND CHEAP IF YOU LIVE NEARBY BUT STILL NOT MUCH FUN. WHY NOT JUST GET THE CARD AND DO AWAY WITH THE NECESSITY OF THE HOME TRIP AND VISA RUNS ALTOGETHER?

100k per year is possibly enough to set up a shell company, get a B visa, and live that way ?? In fact I think it would be marginally above this (I think I crunched the numbers a year or two back) but its not far off getting a B visa, paying taxes, employing 'dead' staff, paying thier taxes, getting a WP, and living here on full extensions. This means no trips out of the country, and while your tax payments would be low, is even technically in the running to work to PR, etc. Again this all looks better to me.

AGAIN HASSLES AND SKIRTING AROUND THE LETTER OF THE LAW. ELITE IS COMPLETELY LEGIT AND YOU GET VIP SERVICE WHEN YOU DO TRAVEL.

For me personally, I have changed from seeing visa runs as a negative, to seeing them as a nice excuse for a break in interesting places around the region or globe. As such I take vacations and thier value and costs are not really a fair part of the equation, sure I spend more in absolute terms but I enjoy the process and its a lifestyle plus. I could drive up to Ranong and do a 90 day visa run at a total cost of 1500 - 2000 baht 4 of those and one vacation which allows me to apply for a long stay visa in a year and I have a solution thats currently working.

THIS IS GOOD. IF YOU WERE ELITE, YOU CAN COME AND GO WHEN YOU PLEASE TO WHEREVER YOU WANT. TRAVELS NOT GOVERNED BY NEED TO PROCURE VISAS.

For the absolute cheapest way I can see to have an easy stay here, I could take a 2 week vacation somewhere cheap (Bali / Cambodia if fedex works), courier my second passport back to my home country and apply for a 1 year non imm while I am outside of Thailand (not everyone has a friendly home consul, many would have to physically go to Oz or other) and have it couriered back.. Lets say 10k baht in courier costs, 7k baht for the 1 year visa, plus whatever a 2 week vacation costs maybe 40k ??).. So far I now have 1 year visa (and a holiday) for <60k.. Then if I wish to be cheap I spend 5x 2000 baht to go the rest of the 15 months I can use that and repeat. This process has a total cost of 70k baht for 15 months stay and one cheap holiday.. Thats <5k per month. If you take the vacation out of the process (and I tend to be out of Thailand a fair bit anyway) your actual visa costs come in at <30k for 15 months including all visa runs and extensions etc !!

I GUESS WOULD WORK IF YOU COME FROM ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT STILL HAVE VISA FRIENDLY EMBASSY OR CONSULATES.

Everyone has to find their own best solution for their specific situation.

[jonniebkk]

This is really a no brainer.

If a million is peanuts to you and this is your only option ... then why not ?

Naka.

Well, it's not peanuts but wouldn't break the bank either. The money is going to be paid one way or the other if I stay in Thailand. It is really just a question of "pre-paying" the costs for obtaining the visas in the case of the Elite card or paying as you go if it were possible to continue on T or Non-Imm visas till 50.

[jonniebkk]

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

It seems to be the trend that the authorities want you to return to your country of origin when obtaining non-imm visas.

[funfun]

Okay, another thread about under 50s residing in Thailand. Is the purchase of a Thailand Elite Card a good way to do it? I have read recent threads on the pros and cons of the scheme. This is not a post about the viability of the program itself or if it was a good, bad, or silly idea to begin with. We all have our views on it...but accepting it on its face, my question is: Is it a viable option for someone to use to their own benefit if it meets their needs?

My situation (and also that of my friend I discussed in related post): Early 40s American, single, retired, financially secure. No wish to marry for a visa or start a company or business. No need or wish to work...just enjoy my stay in Thailand. I initially moved to Thailand for the sanook factor and ALL that entailed. However, after almost a decade here, I have not been "in" that lifestyle for many years. I am just one of many single guys who enjoy the relaxed pace of life, decent food, affordable medical and dental care, and the occasional nite out. The value for money lifestyle I would call it here in LOS. I have always abided by the letter of the law and will continue to do so. If there is no legal option for staying in LOS, I could return Stateside.

I have always been somewhat skeptical of the Thailand Elite Card. However, as visa regulations have become more and more restrictive over the years, it is starting to look like one of the few ways someone in my situation can continue to reside in Thailand. I will focus on the program's visa provisions as that is my motivation for considering membership. Any other privileges would be "icing on the cake."

I see membership as a financial proposition. From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa. The visa is renewable in perpetuity (as long as the scheme is in existence) at no additional charge. It can be extended IN-COUNTRY every 3 months [for the standard extension charge of B 1,900]. So no need for any further "visa runs" for members who chose to use their membership as a way to reside in-country.

I will calculate figures in US$ at the rate of B33 = USD 1. B 1 million is USD $ 30,303 or $ 30K. I have 8 years before I qualify for a "retirement" visa. The 30K equals $ 3,800 per year (over 8 years). Now, I have to make 4-6 visa runs per year. This is inconvenient but not too expensive. Trips to Penang are cheap and with a multi-entry visa from there, one could stay in Thailand for 2-3 months and do visa runs when necessary This is now more tenuous, and in any case, you only get 1 entry. In the future, Penang may no longer be an option and "visa runs" would have to be back to the States.

A 1-2 week trip to the US can cost $ 4,000. If I end-up going back twice a year, that's $ 8,000. The Elite membership on a yearly basis is $ 3,800. This is HALF the cost of doing 2 visa runs to the US.

Even "local" visa runs to Penang cost about $ 750 each. Doing 6 of these per year (if I have a single entry tourist visas) would be $ 4,500. Again, I am still ahead financially by $ 700 using the Elite program. Not even considering the fact it's likely some time in the not too distant future this option is likely to be eliminated and that making 6 trips a year to the same place in dam_n boring!

It seems to work financially when considering the cost of my visa runs, let alone any other member benefits. If the program is terminated there may be a financial loss. In such an event, I think it likely (just my "gut" feeling) some compensation would be provided. The visa privileges may remain in place (at a minimum what remained of your initial 5 years). That has usually been the case with other rule/law changes, with people being grandfathered in. This was the case when the 3M investment visa was discontinued. Holders were allowed to continue using them if they renewed them annually. The Thailand Privilege Card Company is a Thai government backed or "sponsored" company. I don't know the particulars but it's closely associated with the government (even if if was initiated under a former discredited one) and closing it down, without some kind of compensation to members, would be somewhat of a black eye or loss of face for the government.

Even when I qualify for a retirement visa, the ease of the Elite program probably makes it a better option. Why re-quality for an inferior visa when you already have a 5-year visa with other “elite” privileges.

Are there any faults in my reasoning for someone in my situation? Assuming that the program continues in effect for the foreseeable future or that in the even of cancellation, compensation is provided or the visa privilege remains in effect, are there any serious downsides I have overlooked?

I dont know what sort of interest your country the states would give you on 30,000 dollars if thats what 1 mill bhat is

an avaergae visa run maybe cost 10,00 now thats not a border run at 2000 but an average say inc ya embassy types

so if ya did 5 in a year that would be 50,00

and after 10 x years would be 500,000

so the 1 million you would pay up front would be a waste of money in my mind

and ya 1 mill in a us bank maybe work a lot harder for you

plus how do you know your still gonna want to be here next year

that old saying a fool and his money might be right here, and im not calling you a fool so dont take it that way, just maybe give it some more thought and another poster here who has a card says hang on, so hang on i would

well whatever you decide good luck, and keep us posted

chris

[LivinLOS]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

I said none of the above (though I did use multiple amounts discussing both USD and THB without explicitly stating it).. I have a couple of mil USD that I actively manage, and of that money I have made 30 - 35% on my investments in the last year (so your second guess is closest). So the way I look at it any money I take from the investment pool essentially costs me the return I would have made on that money.

I can easily afford an Elite card, I have looked into it and if the supply of non imm O's from consuls around the globe dried up that might effect my perception of the Elites visa program as a value proposition. I am I guess thier target market for the cards sales but really with the exception of the visa (which I find not so hard to replace) I dont see any benefits I want (golf, massage means nothing to me, I dont want to hob nob with others, I dont get any 'status' vibes) so I just dont see the value currently.

I guess I could say that I see the value of 1 mil baht invested higher than the replacement cost or alternative cost of the visa issue.

[Hampstead]

Okay, another thread about under 50s residing in Thailand. Is the purchase of a Thailand Elite Card a good way to do it? I have read recent threads on the pros and cons of the scheme. This is not a post about the viability of the program itself or if it was a good, bad, or silly idea to begin with. We all have our views on it...but accepting it on its face, my question is: Is it a viable option for someone to use to their own benefit if it meets their needs?

My situation (and also that of my friend I discussed in related post): Early 40s American, single, retired, financially secure. No wish to marry for a visa or start a company or business. No need or wish to work...just enjoy my stay in Thailand. I initially moved to Thailand for the sanook factor and ALL that entailed. However, after almost a decade here, I have not been "in" that lifestyle for many years. I am just one of many single guys who enjoy the relaxed pace of life, decent food, affordable medical and dental care, and the occasional nite out. The value for money lifestyle I would call it here in LOS. I have always abided by the letter of the law and will continue to do so. If there is no legal option for staying in LOS, I could return Stateside.

I have always been somewhat skeptical of the Thailand Elite Card. However, as visa regulations have become more and more restrictive over the years, it is starting to look like one of the few ways someone in my situation can continue to reside in Thailand. I will focus on the program's visa provisions as that is my motivation for considering membership. Any other privileges would be "icing on the cake."

I see membership as a financial proposition. From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa. The visa is renewable in perpetuity (as long as the scheme is in existence) at no additional charge. It can be extended IN-COUNTRY every 3 months [for the standard extension charge of B 1,900]. So no need for any further "visa runs" for members who chose to use their membership as a way to reside in-country.

I will calculate figures in US$ at the rate of B33 = USD 1. B 1 million is USD $ 30,303 or $ 30K. I have 8 years before I qualify for a "retirement" visa. The 30K equals $ 3,800 per year (over 8 years). Now, I have to make 4-6 visa runs per year. This is inconvenient but not too expensive. Trips to Penang are cheap and with a multi-entry visa from there, one could stay in Thailand for 2-3 months and do visa runs when necessary This is now more tenuous, and in any case, you only get 1 entry. In the future, Penang may no longer be an option and "visa runs" would have to be back to the States.

A 1-2 week trip to the US can cost $ 4,000. If I end-up going back twice a year, that's $ 8,000. The Elite membership on a yearly basis is $ 3,800. This is HALF the cost of doing 2 visa runs to the US.

Even "local" visa runs to Penang cost about $ 750 each. Doing 6 of these per year (if I have a single entry tourist visas) would be $ 4,500. Again, I am still ahead financially by $ 700 using the Elite program. Not even considering the fact it's likely some time in the not too distant future this option is likely to be eliminated and that making 6 trips a year to the same place in dam_n boring!

It seems to work financially when considering the cost of my visa runs, let alone any other member benefits. If the program is terminated there may be a financial loss. In such an event, I think it likely (just my "gut" feeling) some compensation would be provided. The visa privileges may remain in place (at a minimum what remained of your initial 5 years). That has usually been the case with other rule/law changes, with people being grandfathered in. This was the case when the 3M investment visa was discontinued. Holders were allowed to continue using them if they renewed them annually. The Thailand Privilege Card Company is a Thai government backed or "sponsored" company. I don't know the particulars but it's closely associated with the government (even if if was initiated under a former discredited one) and closing it down, without some kind of compensation to members, would be somewhat of a black eye or loss of face for the government.

Even when I qualify for a retirement visa, the ease of the Elite program probably makes it a better option. Why re-quality for an inferior visa when you already have a 5-year visa with other "elite" privileges.

Are there any faults in my reasoning for someone in my situation? Assuming that the program continues in effect for the foreseeable future or that in the even of cancellation, compensation is provided or the visa privilege remains in effect, are there any serious downsides I have overlooked?

I dont know what sort of interest your country the states would give you on 30,000 dollars if thats what 1 mill bhat is

an avaergae visa run maybe cost 10,00 now thats not a border run at 2000 but an average say inc ya embassy types

so if ya did 5 in a year that would be 50,00

and after 10 x years would be 500,000

so the 1 million you would pay up front would be a waste of money in my mind

and ya 1 mill in a us bank maybe work a lot harder for you

plus how do you know your still gonna want to be here next year

that old saying a fool and his money might be right here, and im not calling you a fool so dont take it that way, just maybe give it some more thought and another poster here who has a card says hang on, so hang on i would

well whatever you decide good luck, and keep us posted

chris

Didnt the OP explain, that he also would have to travel back to his home country every year to renew his visa, which would also add to the cost!!

Or i am to undertsand that many on this forum are so hard hit in the pocket that a trip back home would be financially too expensive, so many opt for the cheaper runs every year to penang, and then do the 10 hour bus journeys to the borders.

Is this what you are implying

[Hampstead]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

I said none of the above (though I did use multiple amounts discussing both USD and THB without explicitly stating it).. I have a couple of mil USD that I actively manage, and of that money I have made 30 - 35% on my investments in the last year (so your second guess is closest). So the way I look at it any money I take from the investment pool essentially costs me the return I would have made on that money.

I can easily afford an Elite card, I have looked into it and if the supply of non imm O's from consuls around the globe dried up that might effect my perception of the Elites visa program as a value proposition. I am I guess thier target market for the cards sales but really with the exception of the visa (which I find not so hard to replace) I dont see any benefits I want (golf, massage means nothing to me, I dont want to hob nob with others, I dont get any 'status' vibes) so I just dont see the value currently.

I guess I could say that I see the value of 1 mil baht invested higher than the replacement cost or alternative cost of the visa issue.

I am sorry, didnt you say that you couldnt afford the expense to travel back to your home country every year, and instead opt for the cheaper route, to say a country near by, by lets say having an agency do the documents for you at a cost of 30,000 baht

wouldnt someone in your financial position enjoy holidays around the world in say your home country once a year, to have the visa taken care with along with seeing a few old faces

Why would someone in your financial position always take the cheap option to penang!!!

[LivinLOS]

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

It seems to be the trend that the authorities want you to return to your country of origin when obtaining non-imm visas.

Which 'authorities' ??

People go get non imms from any consul outside Thailand every day of the week.. Only they dont often give them for visiting friends and family close by and often dont give multiple entries close by..

But no one is saying you cant just go to any consul are they ?? Since when ??

Its just the same as tourist visa's.. People 'consul shop' all the time for which is the easiest to deal with, of which gives the best service and go there.. I dont see why this concept is fine for tourist visa's and not for non imms ?? It baffles me.

[LivinLOS]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

I said none of the above (though I did use multiple amounts discussing both USD and THB without explicitly stating it).. I have a couple of mil USD that I actively manage, and of that money I have made 30 - 35% on my investments in the last year (so your second guess is closest). So the way I look at it any money I take from the investment pool essentially costs me the return I would have made on that money.

I can easily afford an Elite card, I have looked into it and if the supply of non imm O's from consuls around the globe dried up that might effect my perception of the Elites visa program as a value proposition. I am I guess thier target market for the cards sales but really with the exception of the visa (which I find not so hard to replace) I dont see any benefits I want (golf, massage means nothing to me, I dont want to hob nob with others, I dont get any 'status' vibes) so I just dont see the value currently.

I guess I could say that I see the value of 1 mil baht invested higher than the replacement cost or alternative cost of the visa issue.

I am sorry, didnt you say that you couldnt afford the expense to travel back to your home country every year, and instead opt for the cheaper route, to say a country near by, by lets say having an agency do the documents for you at a cost of 30,000 baht

wouldnt someone in your financial position enjoy holidays around the world in say your home country once a year, to have the visa taken care with along with seeing a few old faces

Why would someone in your financial position always take the cheap option to penang!!!

Penang ?? Where did I mention Penang ?? I dont recommend Penang at all ?? Did you read my post ??

What I was doing was breaking down a theoretical way to get a long stay visa at a monetary cost.. and then placing that financial value / cost against the equivalent cost of using the elite to do the same thing. Seems obvious but maybe I was confusing ??

As to me.. I have said in other threads I dont really have a home.. I grew up all over the place and left the country I hold the passport off when I was in my teens, I havent lived there for well over a decade and not even returned for >5 years.. One of my parents has left and the other is considering it. So no I have no need, or desire to return to see anyone, and would rather use any vacation time somewhere far more pleasant than the UK. I do vacation around but I dont choose to go there.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I see membership as a financial proposition. From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa. The visa is renewable in perpetuity (as long as the scheme is in existence) at no additional charge. It can be extended IN-COUNTRY every 3 months [for the standard extension charge of B 1,900]. So no need for any further "visa runs" for members who chose to use their membership as a way to reside in-country.

We've been told Monday is the deadline to still get the million Baht price ( you need to fill out the application.) It goes up on Jan 1st 2008 to 1.5 million Baht and to get the lower price, you need to be approved and funds in the bank by that time. It seems they are seriously going to enforce this cutoff ( this is the stance at this time.) In fact if you call the membership hotline, as I did this morning, they are saying" it's already now 1.5 million Baht."

http://www.thailandelite.com/contactus.php

Couple changes... The card is limited to 24 golf greens and 24 spa visits per year. Also the card is good only for one person in the family. Used to be you could piggyback off one family member who has a card. Now each family member needs to have a card if you want this visa option.

Money is now transferred to Thailand and is no longer sent to Singapore.

No annual fee at this point but could change for new applicants in January.

Sunbelt Asia as a sub agent will give a 20,000 Baht rebate if you mention you are a Thaivisa member and we get credit for the introduction.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Fred Sanford]

Oh my, hurry up JohnnyBkk

[Hampstead]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

I said none of the above (though I did use multiple amounts discussing both USD and THB without explicitly stating it).. I have a couple of mil USD that I actively manage, and of that money I have made 30 - 35% on my investments in the last year (so your second guess is closest). So the way I look at it any money I take from the investment pool essentially costs me the return I would have made on that money.

I can easily afford an Elite card, I have looked into it and if the supply of non imm O's from consuls around the globe dried up that might effect my perception of the Elites visa program as a value proposition. I am I guess thier target market for the cards sales but really with the exception of the visa (which I find not so hard to replace) I dont see any benefits I want (golf, massage means nothing to me, I dont want to hob nob with others, I dont get any 'status' vibes) so I just dont see the value currently.

I guess I could say that I see the value of 1 mil baht invested higher than the replacement cost or alternative cost of the visa issue.

I am sorry, didnt you say that you couldnt afford the expense to travel back to your home country every year, and instead opt for the cheaper route, to say a country near by, by lets say having an agency do the documents for you at a cost of 30,000 baht

wouldnt someone in your financial position enjoy holidays around the world in say your home country once a year, to have the visa taken care with along with seeing a few old faces

Why would someone in your financial position always take the cheap option to penang!!!

Penang ?? Where did I mention Penang ?? I dont recommend Penang at all ?? Did you read my post ??

What I was doing was breaking down a theoretical way to get a long stay visa at a monetary cost.. and then placing that financial value / cost against the equivalent cost of using the elite to do the same thing. Seems obvious but maybe I was confusing ??

As to me.. I have said in other threads I dont really have a home.. I grew up all over the place and left the country I hold the passport off when I was in my teens, I havent lived there for well over a decade and not even returned for >5 years.. One of my parents has left and the other is considering it. So no I have no need, or desire to return to see anyone, and would rather use any vacation time somewhere far more pleasant than the UK. I do vacation around but I dont choose to go there.

So managing 1-2 million dollars not owning means you have some sort of financial means, how your commission works on this management of money is anyones guess!!

But lets say, if you are like me, in my mid 30's by first world standards living a very comfortable life

now going on holidays, is a joy, i can stay in rome for a week, fly back to london for a while to visit friends, spending 200k or 300k means very little as i can afford these holidays which i take every year

So why would someone in your apparent good fortune in the wealth stakes opt for 10 hour bus journies to ranong or further bus journies to the borders

Isnt this what people do, when they have little choice but to pay the cheapest price to the border crossings as their finances have taken a temporary turn for the worse

[LivinLOS]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

I said none of the above (though I did use multiple amounts discussing both USD and THB without explicitly stating it).. I have a couple of mil USD that I actively manage, and of that money I have made 30 - 35% on my investments in the last year (so your second guess is closest). So the way I look at it any money I take from the investment pool essentially costs me the return I would have made on that money.

I can easily afford an Elite card, I have looked into it and if the supply of non imm O's from consuls around the globe dried up that might effect my perception of the Elites visa program as a value proposition. I am I guess thier target market for the cards sales but really with the exception of the visa (which I find not so hard to replace) I dont see any benefits I want (golf, massage means nothing to me, I dont want to hob nob with others, I dont get any 'status' vibes) so I just dont see the value currently.

I guess I could say that I see the value of 1 mil baht invested higher than the replacement cost or alternative cost of the visa issue.

I am sorry, didnt you say that you couldnt afford the expense to travel back to your home country every year, and instead opt for the cheaper route, to say a country near by, by lets say having an agency do the documents for you at a cost of 30,000 baht

wouldnt someone in your financial position enjoy holidays around the world in say your home country once a year, to have the visa taken care with along with seeing a few old faces

Why would someone in your financial position always take the cheap option to penang!!!

Penang ?? Where did I mention Penang ?? I dont recommend Penang at all ?? Did you read my post ??

What I was doing was breaking down a theoretical way to get a long stay visa at a monetary cost.. and then placing that financial value / cost against the equivalent cost of using the elite to do the same thing. Seems obvious but maybe I was confusing ??

As to me.. I have said in other threads I dont really have a home.. I grew up all over the place and left the country I hold the passport off when I was in my teens, I havent lived there for well over a decade and not even returned for >5 years.. One of my parents has left and the other is considering it. So no I have no need, or desire to return to see anyone, and would rather use any vacation time somewhere far more pleasant than the UK. I do vacation around but I dont choose to go there.

So managing 1-2 million dollars not owning means you have some sort of financial means, how your commission works on this management of money is anyones guess!!

But lets say, if you are like me, in my mid 30's by first world standards living a very comfortable life

now going on holidays, is a joy, i can stay in rome for a week, fly back to london for a while to visit friends, spending 200k or 300k means very little as i can afford these holidays which i take every year

So why would someone in your apparent good fortune in the wealth stakes opt for 10 hour bus journies to ranong or further bus journies to the borders

Isnt this what people do, when they have little choice but to pay the cheapest price to the border crossings as their finances have taken a temporary turn for the worse

I dont understand what you mean about commissions. I simply manage my own assets.

Also once again.. I didnt say I did go to Ranong (I have done a few times, its the fastest approach only takes me a few hours in the car and not an unpleasant drive, Hope over to the Andaman club hotel and casino, and return tidies up a once a 90 day inconvienience in the easiest and fastest way if I had to) I simply presented a possible way I could replace the elite cards value proposition with the lowest cost financial value proposition to compare what I was getting.

As I have said in other threads, I tend to be out of the country a bit so I often dont have to think about visa runs, thats handled in my travelling anyway. This last year I think I had to remember one. Other times I left the country was to sail to langkawi, had a beak in Bali for a month, was involved in a charity motorsport rally across india (was a bundle of fun), basically my lifestyle pretty much visa runs for me !! If I really need to do one I can hop down to Sing for a long weekend city break and thats fun too, but if I forget or have nothing planned, the one or two times a year I might have to remember driving myself a few hours to Ranong once or twice a year doesnt kill me either. Its not like its a once a month commitment then.

[Hampstead]

2) If money was really the point, you'd save a fortune by doing most of your visa-runs by bus to Cambodia/Laos. That was almost the last thing on my mind when I joined - I thought of it as buying a suite of services (the visa being one), rather than a way of saving money.

This presupposes that one could regularly and easily obtain multi-entry visas locally or from your country of origin. For some countries (Europe and Australia this doesn't seem to be a problem) but many American consulates seem to be about as stingy as local ones for some reason. Also, this supposes no further changes or restrictions on tourist or non-imm visas (which seems unlikely).

And like I said, just getting back to the States a couple times TO GET the visa to make the cheap visa-runs to Cambo or laos would cost me twice the cost of the Elite program over the long run.

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

Simply go where they are easy..

Did you say you have only 1 million baht in investments and then cannot afford to spend all your investments on the Elite, or you have 100 million bahts worth of investments and earn 30 million baht every year, but you feel 1 million baht is better staying in your bank, in your previous post?

I said none of the above (though I did use multiple amounts discussing both USD and THB without explicitly stating it).. I have a couple of mil USD that I actively manage, and of that money I have made 30 - 35% on my investments in the last year (so your second guess is closest). So the way I look at it any money I take from the investment pool essentially costs me the return I would have made on that money.

I can easily afford an Elite card, I have looked into it and if the supply of non imm O's from consuls around the globe dried up that might effect my perception of the Elites visa program as a value proposition. I am I guess thier target market for the cards sales but really with the exception of the visa (which I find not so hard to replace) I dont see any benefits I want (golf, massage means nothing to me, I dont want to hob nob with others, I dont get any 'status' vibes) so I just dont see the value currently.

I guess I could say that I see the value of 1 mil baht invested higher than the replacement cost or alternative cost of the visa issue.

I am sorry, didnt you say that you couldnt afford the expense to travel back to your home country every year, and instead opt for the cheaper route, to say a country near by, by lets say having an agency do the documents for you at a cost of 30,000 baht

wouldnt someone in your financial position enjoy holidays around the world in say your home country once a year, to have the visa taken care with along with seeing a few old faces

Why would someone in your financial position always take the cheap option to penang!!!

Penang ?? Where did I mention Penang ?? I dont recommend Penang at all ?? Did you read my post ??

What I was doing was breaking down a theoretical way to get a long stay visa at a monetary cost.. and then placing that financial value / cost against the equivalent cost of using the elite to do the same thing. Seems obvious but maybe I was confusing ??

As to me.. I have said in other threads I dont really have a home.. I grew up all over the place and left the country I hold the passport off when I was in my teens, I havent lived there for well over a decade and not even returned for >5 years.. One of my parents has left and the other is considering it. So no I have no need, or desire to return to see anyone, and would rather use any vacation time somewhere far more pleasant than the UK. I do vacation around but I dont choose to go there.

So managing 1-2 million dollars not owning means you have some sort of financial means, how your commission works on this management of money is anyones guess!!

But lets say, if you are like me, in my mid 30's by first world standards living a very comfortable life

now going on holidays, is a joy, i can stay in rome for a week, fly back to london for a while to visit friends, spending 200k or 300k means very little as i can afford these holidays which i take every year

So why would someone in your apparent good fortune in the wealth stakes opt for 10 hour bus journies to ranong or further bus journies to the borders

Isnt this what people do, when they have little choice but to pay the cheapest price to the border crossings as their finances have taken a temporary turn for the worse

I dont understand what you mean about commissions. I simply manage my own assets.

Also once again.. I didnt say I did go to Ranong (I have done a few times, its the fastest approach only takes me a few hours in the car and not an unpleasant drive, Hope over to the Andaman club hotel and casino, and return tidies up a once a 90 day inconvienience in the easiest and fastest way if I had to) I simply presented a possible way I could replace the elite cards value proposition with the lowest cost financial value proposition to compare what I was getting.

As I have said in other threads, I tend to be out of the country a bit so I often dont have to think about visa runs, thats handled in my travelling anyway. This last year I think I had to remember one. Other times I left the country was to sail to langkawi, had a beak in Bali for a month, was involved in a charity motorsport rally across india (was a bundle of fun), basically my lifestyle pretty much visa runs for me !! If I really need to do one I can hop down to Sing for a long weekend city break and thats fun too, but if I forget or have nothing planned, the one or two times a year I might have to remember driving myself a few hours to Ranong once or twice a year doesnt kill me either. Its not like its a once a month commitment then.

Your Solution, is not what you do with your own travelling life, your solution to the op, was a presentation of doing the cheapest possible routes by bus to numorous border runs, which is something you hardly do, not a very enticing propostion to the op who wants to stay in thailand for 8 more years before he reaches the retirement age

These cheap routes, for which can take 10 hours at a time are afforded by those who have no choice in the financial stakes

and i am sorry but travelling down to ranong would kill me, and yes going to sing on many shopping weekends has been a very enjoyably joint for me, but neither of this was mentioned in your first post, as you stuck to the most depressing of all solutions for those looking to stay in thailand

Edited December 15, 2007 by Hampstead

[LivinLOS]

<<<SNIPPED QUOTES DOWN TO MAKE IT MANAGEABLE>>>

Your Solution, is not what you do with your own travelling life, your solution to the op, was a presentation of doing the cheapest possible routes by bus to numorous border runs, which is something you hardly do, not a very enticing propostion to the op who wants to stay in thailand for 8 more years before he reaches the retirement age

These cheap routes, for which can take 10 hours at a time are afforded by those who have no choice in the financial stakes,

Hardly an exciting proposition to spend the next 8 years of the op's life in thailand doing it the way you mentiones in your first post

Sure I agree.. theres no one size fits all solution and no single system will please everyone.

However whose to say the OP doesnt also travel around ??? Whose to say you have to sit on a bus for 10 hours (why cant the OP drive a car ??) ??

The OP looks like hes considered this carefully, hes looked at his numbers, hes looking at the elite as an economic value proposition based on its visa opportunity first and foremost. I simply tried to show how I saw the value proposition very differently even though I too am under 50, could afford the Elite card, and would like the visa.

Sounds like the OP sees the value of the Elite card visa option as suiting him.. Seems like I see the value of a million baht working in the market more than the 'return' I get from the visa solution considering I can approximately achieve the same thing for less. As I said theres no one size fits all solution and no 'right' answer. Perhaps the OP is richer and hence sees the value of compounded investment returns as being less important than I do, I readily admit I like the sense of security and life options that investments have afforded me and hence I try to hang on to them and make them work as efficiently as possible, I wasnt born well off and tend to be cautious about big ticket purchases (I dont own my home here for example). We are all different.

[Hampstead]

<<<SNIPPED QUOTES DOWN TO MAKE IT MANAGEABLE>>>

Your Solution, is not what you do with your own travelling life, your solution to the op, was a presentation of doing the cheapest possible routes by bus to numorous border runs, which is something you hardly do, not a very enticing propostion to the op who wants to stay in thailand for 8 more years before he reaches the retirement age

These cheap routes, for which can take 10 hours at a time are afforded by those who have no choice in the financial stakes,

Hardly an exciting proposition to spend the next 8 years of the op's life in thailand doing it the way you mentiones in your first post

Sure I agree.. theres no one size fits all solution and no single system will please everyone.

However whose to say the OP doesnt also travel around ??? Whose to say you have to sit on a bus for 10 hours (why cant the OP drive a car ??) ??

The OP looks like hes considered this carefully, hes looked at his numbers, hes looking at the elite as an economic value proposition based on its visa opportunity first and foremost. I simply tried to show how I saw the value proposition very differently even though I too am under 50, could afford the Elite card, and would like the visa.

Sounds like the OP sees the value of the Elite card visa option as suiting him.. Seems like I see the value of a million baht working in the market more than the 'return' I get from the visa solution considering I can approximately achieve the same thing for less. As I said theres no one size fits all solution and no 'right' answer. Perhaps the OP is richer and hence sees the value of compounded investment returns as being less important than I do, I readily admit I like the sense of security and life options that investments have afforded me and hence I try to hang on to them and make them work as efficiently as possible, I wasnt born well off and tend to be cautious about big ticket purchases (I dont own my home here for example). We are all different.

Yes its a choice, just like any investment choice, one looks at the benefits and cost, but i have to say that your first post, if completed by the op will be quite possibly the most depressing way to spend 8 years of ones single life just to try and live in one country

My answer to your posts, is to detail that your way, is ONLY afforded by those who have no financial means to use another method for their stay.

If given a choice i am sure most people would opt not to travel on 10 hr bus journies, every other month on these border runs, along with hoping that in penang their agency can renew their visa for 30,000 baht

its hardly an enticing proposition for anyone

and one more add on, what happens if something may happen to that most friendly of consultes, no need to mention the name, which in my reckoning allows many to stay in thailand without the necessary visit to those shores.

its all a matter of choice, those may say how long will the program last, others may say, what happens if they tighten the noose on certain consulates,. which they did 7-8 years ago in Perth

Edited December 15, 2007 by Hampstead

[LivinLOS]

Yes its a choice, just like any investment choice, one looks at the benefits and cost, but i have to say that your first post, if completed by the op will be quite possibly the most depressing way to spend 8 years of ones single life just to try and live in one country

My answer to your posts, is to detail that your way, is ONLY afforded by those who have no financial means to use another method for their stay.

If given a choice i am sure most people would opt not to travel on 10 hr bus journies, every other month on these border runs, along with hoping that in penang their agency can renew their visa for 30,000 baht

I dont know if your trying to twist my words on purpose of if its purely by accident.

Not once did I say to sit on a 10 hour bus ride !!

Not once did I suggest anyone going to Penang !!

Not once did I suggest any 'agency' or 30k baht !!

Not once did I suggest doing anything under the table as you insinuate.

And despite the fact that you keep putting false statements into my mouth, I also can assure you that there are plenty of non married under 50's doing exactly what I do, quite a few wealthy ones too.

I merely tried to put a price value on a replacement visa option. You may notice I also said that 100k (which I felt was an obvious 10% safe return from 1mil baht) each year would possibly set up a legal company and give him a non imm B.. And not far from paying all taxes due on the OP and dead staff to get full incountry annual extensions ?? Both of these are other options for achieving long stay that still work out 'cheaper' than the elite card option.

and one more add on, what happens if something may happen to that most friendly of consultes, no need to mention the name, which in my reckoning allows many to stay in thailand without the necessary visit to those shores.

What the future may bring is unknown, ask many of the condo buyers who now cannot get grandfathered in, its that very lack of secutiy in the future that lowers the value proposition of the elite card for many.

If as you say the option for long stay visa's somewhere on the globe disappears, then the appeal of the elite goes up (tho its still cheaper to have a shell company and a non B IMO purely from a visa perspective). However until that does happen theres really not much point speculating about it. Spending a million baht because something may change in the future seems like a strange choice.

[Hampstead]

Yes its a choice, just like any investment choice, one looks at the benefits and cost, but i have to say that your first post, if completed by the op will be quite possibly the most depressing way to spend 8 years of ones single life just to try and live in one country

So you think the OP should be happy by spending over 1 million baht every in holidays around the world just so he can have his o visa for thailand like yourself, you think this going be the cheaper option for the OP, i mean sing, bali etc every year is not going to be a 20,000 baht holiday is it now

My answer to your posts, is to detail that your way, is ONLY afforded by those who have no financial means to use another method for their stay.

If given a choice i am sure most people would opt not to travel on 10 hr bus journies, every other month on these border runs, along with hoping that in penang their agency can renew their visa for 30,000 baht

I dont know if your trying to twist my words on purpose of if its purely by accident.

Not once did I say to sit on a 10 hour bus ride !!

Not once did I suggest anyone going to Penang !!

Not once did I suggest any 'agency' or 30k baht !!

Not once did I suggest doing anything under the table as you insinuate.

And despite the fact that you keep putting false statements into my mouth, I also can assure you that there are plenty of non married under 50's doing exactly what I do, quite a few wealthy ones too.

I merely tried to put a price value on a replacement visa option. You may notice I also said that 100k (which I felt was an obvious 10% safe return from 1mil baht) each year would possibly set up a legal company and give him a non imm B.. And not far from paying all taxes due on the OP and dead staff to get full incountry annual extensions ?? Both of these are other options for achieving long stay that still work out 'cheaper' than the elite card option.

and one more add on, what happens if something may happen to that most friendly of consultes, no need to mention the name, which in my reckoning allows many to stay in thailand without the necessary visit to those shores.

What the future may bring is unknown, ask many of the condo buyers who now cannot get grandfathered in, its that very lack of secutiy in the future that lowers the value proposition of the elite card for many.

If as you say the option for long stay visa's somewhere on the globe disappears, then the appeal of the elite goes up (tho its still cheaper to have a shell company and a non B IMO purely from a visa perspective). However until that does happen theres really not much point speculating about it. Spending a million baht because something may change in the future seems like a strange choice.

Globe trotting around the globe to keep in check your multi o visa to los is not cheap, especially to bali, sing etc, it will cost alot more than 100k baht every year for this

This uncertainty is exactly why many have stayed away from POSSIBLY setting up a legal company, well isnt this just POSSIBLY, and isnt this option still every year for renew, and have you tried this method yourself

or are we to go down the path of using the friends analogy on web forums

your posts, implies that people should be cock a hoop to journy for 10 hrs to ranong and all these other great border towns of thailand, for which you hardly do your self

as for 1 million baht being alot of money, lets not forget that thailand has one of the most lax and in-efficient tax collection systems on foreigners residing in thailand on the planet

i bet many people are saving alot more than 1 million baht every year , not having to be made to pay their tax dues to the state

Edited December 15, 2007 by Hampstead

[LivinLOS]

Try reading your first post again, it details exactly how i replied to your posts

This is deteriorating into an argument for no reason..

My post attempts to put a financial value on what it costs to attain a long stay visa.. For me it costs the price of a courier and the application fees, however for others who may not spend time outside of thailand, or may not travel around the region I then attempted to show how it could be done and of course I used the minimum amounts of no frills costs to explain my thinking. If you want to fly to singapore and have fun for the weekend, then great, enjoy it, but thats then discretionary spending not the min cost to replace the visa.

This uncertainty is exactly why many have stayed away from POSSIBLY setting up a legal company, well isnt this just POSSIBLY, and isnt this option still every year for renew, and have you tried this method yourself

or are we to go down the path of using the friends analogy on web forums

I dont understand what your saying here.. Perhaps English isnt your first language..

What 'uncertainty' about setting up a basic company ?? what 'possibly' ??

Yes if you have a company every year you would renew.. And no I have not set up a company myself but would consider it if friendly consuls no longer existed.

Again I dont know what the 'friends analogy' is ??

your posts, implies that people should be cock a hoop to journy for 10 hrs to ranong and all these other great border towns of thailand, for which you hardly do your self

No need to be cock a hoop but a couple of hour drive isnt the worst day I have ever had, as I presume many people who can afford elite cards would probably travel a bit, this probably only needs to happen a few times a year at most. No its not ideal but its not so hellish either. If it is its always just a small cost to go and have a city break in Singapore or other local place of interest. Either it bothers you or it doesnt, both have a solution.

I am not going to call you a liar, but i have come very close to stating this on your investment amounts

Thats just childish.. You think everyone retires to Thailand with just a pension ?? Whose yachts do you think are in the marina ?? I have nothing to prove to someone online however if you want to make a bet that I am not sincere I will give you pretty good odds ok ??

as for the friendly consulates, well this explains how you renew your visa, shouldnt you be worried what the future might bring for this oh friendly of consulates

I explained clearly what I did at the outset, there is no need to claim it only explains it now as though its a revelation. If they went away you have the company invite.. Or the form a company.. Or etc etc etc.

I also said very clearly if the many ways to get a non imm all became much harder to obtain the relative value of an elite card rises. I am not against the elite (tho I have little trust in hence why I like the pay as you go implication. I have always found in Thailand when you pay for a service up front the quality of that service tends to diminish.

as for 1 million baht being alot of money, lets not forget that thailand has one of the most lax and in-efficient tax collection systems on foreigners residing in thailand on the planet, i actually save more in taxes than 1 million baht every year living in los

How is that relevant at all ?? In both cases the person lives in Thailand.. I live in Thailand my way.. Doesnt make a difference if its my way or an Elite card way. Both results are the exact same.

Again, I am not against the elite card as a system, the OP looked to have really thought about it and had presented his numbers for user comment. I was just trying to explain how I saw the numbers as with very similar situations I have a different outlook on the relative value.

Edited December 15, 2007 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

you went back and edited your post..

Globe trotting around the globe to keep in check your multi o visa to los is not cheap, especially to bali, sing etc, it will cost alot more than 100k baht every year for this

No it isnt.. But then people dont need to.. I choose to because I enjoy it.. Hence why I only priced in one journey to get the visa (which can be by international post if your lucky enough to be of the right nationality) and then simple border runs. Here your damning me for using simple border runs for my example costs in one post, then saying that flying around isnt cheap !! Try sticking to one side of the argument. You can do this on a budget or you can choose to spend more money and enjoy it more.

BTW my return flights to Bali (via sing) BTW cost +-8k baht last year and +-10k baht this year.. Cost of a big night out and hardly a wallet breaker for those in the elite card customer base.