Can A Half Thai Infant Ineherit Land ?

[phormio]

Discussions of land inheritance were in a topic back in May 04 - see this link:

Land Inheritance Topic From May 04

But they did not address my particular question, so here I am. My Thai wife and I (a US citizen) are living in the US and very likely going to move to Thailand in late 2004. We have a 11 month old child who has a US Passport (we'll be getting her a Thai passport at the Thai Consulate in New York City soon). If we buy land (in my Thai spouses name), can my wife designate our baby as inheritor of the land ?

As an aside, if my wife has land in her name, and I hold a 30 year lease, if she dies , is the lease enforcable on whomever inherits the land ? Can the inheritor void or break the lease and have me and my child thrown off the land ?

Thanks

[Sumitr Man]

1. Your wife can leave the land to whomever she desires - including you (even as an alien). However, assuming your child is under 20 at the time of the inhertiance, a guardian will need to be named. [see Civil and Commercial Code and Land Code]

2. Yes - a lease is good against the estate of a deceased. However, if you, as lesee die, the contract terminates. [see CCC]

3. The lease could be cancelled, if you did not comply with the terms of the lease. Failing which, see 2. [see CCC]

SM

[phormio]

A.

I got the impression from reading other posts that Aliens could not inherit land or that they would have to dispose of the land within a year. Have to admit I've seen conflicting posts in various forums and am very confused about this. I think it was a translation of Section 87 of the land code quoted in a post that said an alien,if rightful heir, could inherit up to 1 Rai of land, with the permission of the ministry of the interior ; of course a foreigner with 40 million baht invested for 5 years could own up to a Rai also.

B.

If my Thai child (minor) inherited from my wife, can I, a non-Thai but obvious guardian, be legal guardian in Thailand for the purposes of the land inheritance ?

Thanks.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

1. Your wife can leave the land to whomever she desires - including you (even as an alien). However, assuming your child is under 20 at the time of the inhertiance, a guardian will need to be named. [see Civil and Commercial Code and Land Code]

2. Yes - a lease is good against the estate of a deceased. However, if you, as lesee die, the contract terminates. [see CCC]

3. The lease could be cancelled, if you did not comply with the terms of the lease. Failing which, see 2. [see CCC]

SM

I'd recheck your assertion in # 1. I don't want to rain on your parade, but what you suggest is not one iota feasible.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A.

I got the impression from reading other posts that Aliens could not inherit land or that they would have to dispose of the land within a year. Have to admit I've seen conflicting posts in various forums and am very confused about this. I think it was a translation of Section 87 of the land code quoted in a post that said an alien,if rightful heir, could inherit up to 1 Rai of land, with the permission of the ministry of the interior ; of course a foreigner with 40 million baht invested for 5 years could own up to a Rai also.

B.

If my Thai child (minor) inherited from my wife, can I, a non-Thai but obvious guardian, be legal guardian in Thailand for the purposes of the land inheritance ?

Thanks.

Not a registered proprietor.

[Sumitr Man]

QUOTE (Sumitr Man @ Mon 2004-08-30, 13:40:07)

1. Your wife can leave the land to whomever she desires - including you (even as an alien). However, assuming your child is under 20 at the time of the inhertiance, a guardian will need to be named. [see Civil and Commercial Code and Land Code]2. Yes - a lease is good against the estate of a deceased. However, if you, as lesee die, the contract terminates. [see CCC]

3. The lease could be cancelled, if you did not comply with the terms of the lease. Failing which, see 2. [see CCC]

SM 

I'd recheck your assertion in # 1. I don't want to rain on your parade, but what you suggest is not one iota feasible.

If you can rebut Section 93 of the Land Code or show me where why it no longer applies, I'd be happy to.

FYI - Section 93 reads

The Minster shall permit the inheritance of land by an alien who is the lawful heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, may not exceed the amount which may be held under Section 87.

Section 87 reads that, for residenital purposes an alien may hold upto 1 Rai of land (given the appropraite right or permission to hold such - hence the limitation of the right to own land to 1 Rai under Ministerial Regulation prescribing principle, procedure and condition for land acquisition to be used as alien living quarter - 18 January 2002)

As I say, happy to be corrected - on production of evidence which rebuts this.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

QUOTE (Sumitr Man @ Mon 2004-08-30, 13:40:07)

1. Your wife can leave the land to whomever she desires - including you (even as an alien). However, assuming your child is under 20 at the time of the inhertiance, a guardian will need to be named. [see Civil and Commercial Code and Land Code]

2. Yes - a lease is good against the estate of a deceased. However, if you, as lesee die, the contract terminates. [see CCC]

3. The lease could be cancelled, if you did not comply with the terms of the lease. Failing which, see 2. [see CCC]

SM 

I'd recheck your assertion in # 1. I don't want to rain on your parade, but what you suggest is not one iota feasible.

If you can rebut Section 93 of the Land Code or show me where why it no longer applies, I'd be happy to.

FYI - Section 93 reads

The Minster shall permit the inheritance of land by an alien who is the lawful heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, may not exceed the amount which may be held under Section 87.

Section 87 reads that, for residenital purposes an alien may hold upto 1 Rai of land (given the appropraite right or permission to hold such - hence the limitation of the right to own land to 1 Rai under Ministerial Regulation prescribing principle, procedure and condition for land acquisition to be used as alien living quarter - 18 January 2002)

As I say, happy to be corrected - on production of evidence which rebuts this.

What dates applied to the legislation as quoted? Go to Tilleke Gibbins website and take a peek.

[Sumitr Man]

As for the child, based on the assumption that you are doing this via lawful will, as prescribed by the conditions set out in Title III: Wills of Book VI: Succession of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand then you need to look, as well as at the other sections, Section 1687 in particular.

Section 1687 reads:

If the testator desires to dispose of his property in favour of a minor or a person adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent or of a person admitted into a hospital for unsoundness of mind, but wishes to entrust the custody and management thereof to a person other than the parents, guardian, custodian or curator, he must appoint a controller of property by will.

Such appointment of controller of property cannot be made for a longer period than the minority...

Alternatively, see a good lawyer

[Sumitr Man]

What dates applied to the legislation as quoted? Go to Tilleke Gibbins website and take a peek.

What I have is good to 1 June 2004. Do you happen to know in which article T&G are saying this no longer applies?

[Sumitr Man]

A.

I got the impression from reading other posts that Aliens could not inherit land or that they would have to dispose of the land within a year. Have to admit I've seen conflicting posts in various forums and am very confused about this. I think it was a translation of Section 87 of the land code quoted in a post that said an alien,if rightful heir, could inherit up to 1 Rai of land, with the permission of the ministry of the interior ; of course a foreigner with 40 million baht invested for 5 years could own up to a Rai also.

B.

If my Thai child (minor) inherited from my wife, can I, a non-Thai but obvious guardian, be legal guardian in Thailand for the purposes of the land inheritance ?

Thanks.

To answer your questions:

A:

- your understanding is correct: subject to my information still being up-to-date. Dr. P has made me think there has been a recent update here that I was not aware of.

B:

See post regarding S.1687.

However, I would caution that you seek professional advice. My posts are based on my own experience and should not be relied upon in any professional way - just as guidelines to help you in discussions with a pro.

[phormio]

Thanks to SM and Dr PP( ) for hashing this out.

Just a couple of more points and I'll let this go until I get on the ground

in the LoS and have a chance to talk it over with a lawyer.

A.

what is the URL for Tilleke Gibbins website ?

B.

Section 1687 reads:

If the testator desires to dispose of his property in favour of a minor or a person adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent or of a person admitted into a hospital for unsoundness of mind, but wishes to entrust the custody and management thereof to a person other than the parents, guardian, custodian or curator, he must appoint a controller of property by will.

My reading of this section seems to indicate , since I am a biological parent, that I would be guardian and have power to dispose of(and/or live on) land that was left by my Thai wife to my Thai/US child (until said child reaches the age of majority).

C. (I lied, this makes it several, not a couple)

To bring up a relavent point that was made about dual citizenship for UK father/Thai Mother parented child (Dr PP dealt with this in another thread) - does the Thai govt. regard Thai/US dual citizenship as legal/recognized/ignored for the child of a Thai Mother/US father ?

Thanks again.

[Sumitr Man]

A. http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com

B. - Ordinarily, that would be my understanding too. However, in one case only, I have heard of a [maternal] Grandmother challenging the [farang] father's guardianship based on the fact that he was not Thai; thus could not be expected to bring up the child in the "Thai" way. I'm sorry to say, I never found out the result of that case, but if you're not close with your out-laws, something to bear-in-mind. Might be just as well to get it in writing - rather than depending solely on the law...

C. -Please expand.

D. - I'll leave to those who are better qualified than I [like Dr. PP]

SM