An Inconvenient Truth

[Daffy D]

Hi All.

I was going to post this at the tail end of another Global Warming thread but after struggling through three pages of that post got depressed by the rants and raves and the lack of mature input that anyone seriously interested in the subject would, like me, never make it to the end.

Apologies if this has been covered before and hope the moderators don’t take exception they no doubt will move this post if they feel it necessary.

I don’t have very strong views either way on global warming I believe it is happening but don’t know really what I can do about it.

I do walk most places, even back in my former life when I had a car if I could walk I would. We use those energy saving lamps and recycle water for the plants and other little “Save the Planet” things. Our small daughter is growing up knowing the phrase “Save the Planet” though she is yet too young to understand the meaning.

Back to the point. A friend gave me a bunch of DVD’s recently, among which was the documentary “An Inconvenient Truth” by Al Gore (yes the candidate that narrowly lost the presidency to Bush). This is not the sort of thing I would normally bother to watch but as I had it in my hand so to speak did in fact watch it.

I found it really interesting and fascinating and very well presented. Now I realize there are plenty of bar room bashers out there that will bash and trash anything and anyone, usually without having an alternative point. It’s all too easy just to rubbish anything and everything without providing an alternative argument. But if you have even a slight interest or are merely curious what all the “Warming” stuff is all about I highly recommend watching if you can this documentary movie.

More Info Here

D.D.

[Wrong Turn]

Global Warming (now called "Climate Change") is a serious issue obviously.

Sadly, in the US it's a political issue.

It shouldn't be.

It's an environmental issue.

Exxon-Mobil corporation pay $10,000 USD per article for a ph.d scientist to write an article challening the concept of man-made global warming.

And Frank Luntz, the political spin doctor work on the GWB campaign in 2000 and 2004 and introduced the concept of "Question the science."

After the 04 election, Luntz ran away and hid, and now does not answer any questions regarding global warming.

This is a perfect example of how corporations and big business control the media.

[Jingthing]

It is a political issue what to do about it, everywhere.

[chevykanteve]

It is a political issue what to do about it, everywhere.

It is a de facto political issue because it's all about money. Steam-engine cars (the Stanley Steamer) existed at the turn of the century. The San Francisco Bay Area (Oakland, etc.) had a great electric tram system during the 1940s. These, and other similar projects, were killed by the big American oil companies. Oil equals money in the pockets of these companies. They don't care about your life or mine. They --the board members of these companies-- don't care if the planet is unliveable after their own deaths. They care only of immediate profits. These people are totally sick. Frankly, they should be treated accordingly.

[Doza]

Of course its a political issue because governments are required to agree on and meet certain criteria for reducing emissions and implement national level policies to ensure the country meets emissions targets etc.

People who care about climate change will vote in a government who commits to taking action on this issue. So it becomes an election issue. Its like saying Iraq is not a political issue, its a war issue. Anything so big is of course always going to become political!

[Mosha]

Now at another forum a long time ago a few stats re Al Gore v Bush were produced. In actual practice of how is private life is lived. Dubya is greener that Gore. Bush's ranch, from what I was told, is almost entirely green conservation of materials wise. Gore does not exactly practice what he preaches.

[Gravelrash]

Climate warming is not anything we will likely suffer from, it will be future generations (our kids problem). No doubt those trying to maintain the status quo will believe they will make enough money now so that their future generations can fund their way into some type of system to avoid the aftereffects. Serious money has a way of setting itself comfortably above the riff raff.

Regardless whether one believes in global warming or not some things will eventuate. Countries that embrace alternative non-polluting technologies will probably get the big economic payoff later as they sell it to those that decided to just rely on oil and coal. Whether the planet's warming or not, how can living in some of those ridiculously polluted cities be good for anyone?

Seems to me a noble crusade to improve our shared environment. Mind you it would be a shame to see those wonderful oil exporting countries, with their open societies and invaluable contributions to the world peace and the betterment of mankind have the free money tap turned off.

Seems the current government heres big plan for the future is to build a nuclear reactor, although I haven't seen any adds stating where they intend to bury the nuclear 1,000 year waste - Pattani does come to mind as a possibility.

[ukjackthai]

Well, I believe Gore is a rationalist. But how do we know that all the factors he mentioned about climate change were not caused by something else - like pure nature... How did the ice age come about?

Well, my father told me of the THICK smog in London many many years ago which was caused by the burning of coal. Now the smog has gone.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

It appears to me that the climate is changing or the media is covering a lot more disasters than they use to. Most likely a bit of both. While I don't really know what is causing the climate change I do feel we should do everything reasonable to slow the changes. They should enforce pollution laws and make large corporations quit dumping their toxic waste into the sky and waterways.

Just think of what could have been accomplished in developing alternate energy with the hundred of billions spent in Iraq. It is not a mess we should be dumping on our grandchildren.

[plachon]

It is a political issue what to do about it, everywhere.

It is a de facto political issue because it's all about money. Steam-engine cars (the Stanley Steamer) existed at the turn of the century. The San Francisco Bay Area (Oakland, etc.) had a great electric tram system during the 1940s. These, and other similar projects, were killed by the big American oil companies. Oil equals money in the pockets of these companies. They don't care about your life or mine. They --the board members of these companies-- don't care if the planet is unliveable after their own deaths. They care only of immediate profits. These people are totally sick. Frankly, they should be treated accordingly.

It's all quite amusing............. some of the global warming sceptics, non-believers and "I couldn't give a dam_n what happens" camp are over on the other thread also whinging that "it's all about money".

Some of them even fantacize that there are legions of climatologists out there getting rich from practicing their profession and publishing papers showing the links between greenhouse gas emissions and climate. Guess they will want to set up an Oil Executives Benevolent Fund to show they really care.

Guess it must be true..........."money makes the world go round, the world go round, the world go round!"

Edited December 15, 2007 by plachon

[sriracha john]

The "other" other global warning thread was closed...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1707003

As this has little to do with Thailand and as we already have a (fairly bad tempered) global warning thread running here this thread is closed.

[whopper]

Al Gore, a shameless political hack who inherited wealth from the Coal industry. Al Gore looks after Al Gore, don't buy his latest BS.

[plachon]

The "other" other global warning thread was closed...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1707003

As this has little to do with Thailand and as we already have a (fairly bad tempered) global warning thread running here this thread is closed.

And the censorship on the long running main thread was draconian in the extreme. I had a post deleted in entirety by a mod, which was really quite mild and innoffensive to any but the thinnest-skinned person, and which would have made it through on any other thread.

And as Bangkok and the low-lying Central Plains are one of the ten most vulnerable areas in the world to global warming and sea level rise, I would argue that these threads have more to do with Thailand than they might appear at first sight.

Edited December 15, 2007 by plachon

[Scott]

As the price of oil rises, alternative sources of energy will likely be found and used. This is because of simple economics. The trick is to keep pressure on gov'ts to make sure they continue to move toward greener, cleaner fuels and not backwards towards such things as coal.

[Spee]

It is a political issue what to do about it, everywhere.

Yeah, and here's the funny thing about that. The only strength of the political argument is the hype and spin. We've already seen the hypocrisy of the Bali meetings. The UN program has been exposed for what it is, an attempt to transfer wealth from productive countries to unproductive countries. Fortunately, rational thought is setting in, no one is paying, and soon the program will be a dead afterthought.

If the political will was that strong, then Gore would run for president and be elected in a landslide. But this will never happen. He would rather bask in the limelight created by the hype, rather than see the hype and hyprocrisy blown out of the water when having to face the music during a campaign. If the political will was that strong, then the new Aussie PM would have gotten Kyoto signed in a heartbeat like he promised. If the political will was that strong, then the Japanese, Spanish, Italian and Kiwi governments would have already coughed up the 30-somthing billion "debt" they have rung up for not meeting Kyoto targets.

Yes, the truth really is inconvenient ....................................................................... for some.

[AlexLah]

All other planets in our solar system are experiencing some kind of climate change as well.

Polar caps of Mars are shrinking for example.

It is just a natural cycle that is connected with solar activity, remember 15.000 years ago we had the ice age and something started to heat up the earth and the ice started to melt.

Less CO2 is better for the air we breath I agree.

Do not follow the grey mass, please.

[Lickey]

15.000 years ago we had the ice age and something started to heat up the earth and the ice started to melt. quote alexlah,,

How enlightening, was there coal fired power stations in China, deforestation and Hummers back then, and was USA the biggest perpetrator and still is?

[yorkman]

The "other" other global warning thread was closed...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1707003

As this has little to do with Thailand and as we already have a (fairly bad tempered) global warning thread running here this thread is closed.

True, but thus far, and I hope it holds out, the "other" global warming thread quickly descended into a tit for tat based more on ego from one or two posters rather than reasoned discussion.

This looks more promising, I hope it continues in that vein, no flaming, just reasoned argument..

This is TV, I just bought a lottery ticket

[sbk]

You know what? I am not going to go through this again.

Posters complain that a thread isn't Thailand related, others complain that non-Thai related stuff should be able to run.

Some posters complain that too much flaming is allowed while other posters complain that their posts get deleted when "it wasn't that bad".

And since you can't please all of the people all of the time I am going to displease some people right now.

If you have any complaints, bring it up with admin. you can email support @thaivisa.com

Not Thai related and I am not interested in moderating another flame fest

///CLOSED///