Insight About Jobmarket In Thailand For Experienced Foreign Mba

[worldcitizen]

Hello Everybody,

First of all, I must say this is a great forum providing some valuable insight. I am interested to make a move to Thailand early next year and would like to hear from some of you that might have some ideas and knowledge on this topic.

I am interested to know about posibilities to find a job in Bangkok that might fit my profile. I know that some will suggest to find a job in the EU and get send over, but I am interested about chances to find a job directly in Thailand. I understand that this way I am likely not to receive big expat benefits, but I have heard that some people still receive decent packages even they found their job there.

My main interest is at foreign MNC working in Marketing or Strategy, but I will consider other positions as well if challenging.

I am European citizen, but currently working in the US. I have an MBA, B.S. and professional certificate (Industriekaufmann), about 5 years total work experience with 3 in marketing (market research, trade marketing, brand management). I am fluent in German, Spanish, English, speak some Japanese and learning some Korean and Mandarin. I have also lived some time in Asia before.

Do you know how difficult/easy it can be to find a good position in Thailand? Also, what type of salaries, benefits (housing, etc.) are realistic for somebody with my qualifications (taking into consideration I get hired in Thailand)? Any headhunters or positions you know about that I should contact?

I am thinking to visit Thailand early next year for some potential interviews.

I appreciate all your insight in advanced and feel free to ask me if you want more details.

Thanks,

H.

[torrenova]

My experience tells me that the vast majority of decent salary package jobs in Bangkok or Thailand are expat positions where your MNC has sent you here and thus you have a western salary with additional expat benefits. I would imagine trying to get an expat position here is almost impossible and working for near Thai wages would be impossible but for a very different reason.

Think about it from my perspective if I am your prospective employer. Why should I employ you ? What can you bring that I cannot get from a Thai with far more expereince who will cost far far less as you will be disenchanted with a low package ?

I'd try and make some contacts first and think carefully why you want to stop doing whatever it is you are doing (or do i read that you are unemployed ?) and come here ? Don't just do it for the sex.

[worldcitizen]

My experience tells me that the vast majority of decent salary package jobs in Bangkok or Thailand are expat positions where your MNC has sent you here and thus you have a western salary with additional expat benefits. I would imagine trying to get an expat position here is almost impossible and working for near Thai wages would be impossible but for a very different reason.

Think about it from my perspective if I am your prospective employer. Why should I employ you ? What can you bring that I cannot get from a Thai with far more expereince who will cost far far less as you will be disenchanted with a low package ?

I'd try and make some contacts first and think carefully why you want to stop doing whatever it is you are doing (or do i read that you are unemployed ?) and come here ? Don't just do it for the sex.

Thanks for your reply. I am not unemployed at this time, but I will leave the US soon for visa reasons. Furthermore, I have been in Asia before and ever since want to return as I believe those markets are very dynamic and I like to learn more about business in Asia and its different cultures (believe me its not for the sex). I am looking also at other markets, but Thailand is one of the options.

I understand that I won't get an expat package there and surely can't make the move on local wage. However, I understand that some people have received packages which are somewhere inbetween local and expat. Some companies, especially foreign companies still like to have some of "their people" in the office to be a bridge between both countries.

So anybody has any experience on finding jobs in my situation and salaries that can be obtained?

Thanks,

H.

[kash]

just give up, even with an MBA from Harvard they won't pay you more than a hundred if you are lucky.

[Prakanong]

My experience tells me that the vast majority of decent salary package jobs in Bangkok or Thailand are expat positions where your MNC has sent you here and thus you have a western salary with additional expat benefits. I would imagine trying to get an expat position here is almost impossible and working for near Thai wages would be impossible but for a very different reason.

Think about it from my perspective if I am your prospective employer. Why should I employ you ? What can you bring that I cannot get from a Thai with far more expereince who will cost far far less as you will be disenchanted with a low package ?

I'd try and make some contacts first and think carefully why you want to stop doing whatever it is you are doing (or do i read that you are unemployed ?) and come here ? Don't just do it for the sex.

Thanks for your reply. I am not unemployed at this time, but I will leave the US soon for visa reasons. Furthermore, I have been in Asia before and ever since want to return as I believe those markets are very dynamic and I like to learn more about business in Asia and its different cultures (believe me its not for the sex). I am looking also at other markets, but Thailand is one of the options.

I understand that I won't get an expat package there and surely can't make the move on local wage. However, I understand that some people have received packages which are somewhere inbetween local and expat. Some companies, especially foreign companies still like to have some of "their people" in the office to be a bridge between both countries.

So anybody has any experience on finding jobs in my situation and salaries that can be obtained?

Thanks,

H.

The packages you are talking about are called "Local Plus" - they are becoming increasingly popular here in Singapore (I am on one)

No housing or school fee's or flights back yearly but very good package compared to a local including re-location, health, salary etc

It all depends on the industry and the position of course - in Banking and Finance for example there are a lot of expat packages (O&G as well now in boom times) while others are moving to the local plus.

I have not heard about these in Thailand (market too immature?) but i am out of touch with the Thai job market now.

Have you only thought about Thailand - what about Singapore or HK who are crying out for foreign talen right now - earn your money with an excellent modern lifestyle and spend it on vists to Thailand

[worldcitizen]

My experience tells me that the vast majority of decent salary package jobs in Bangkok or Thailand are expat positions where your MNC has sent you here and thus you have a western salary with additional expat benefits. I would imagine trying to get an expat position here is almost impossible and working for near Thai wages would be impossible but for a very different reason.

Think about it from my perspective if I am your prospective employer. Why should I employ you ? What can you bring that I cannot get from a Thai with far more expereince who will cost far far less as you will be disenchanted with a low package ?

I'd try and make some contacts first and think carefully why you want to stop doing whatever it is you are doing (or do i read that you are unemployed ?) and come here ? Don't just do it for the sex.

Thanks for your reply. I am not unemployed at this time, but I will leave the US soon for visa reasons. Furthermore, I have been in Asia before and ever since want to return as I believe those markets are very dynamic and I like to learn more about business in Asia and its different cultures (believe me its not for the sex). I am looking also at other markets, but Thailand is one of the options.

I understand that I won't get an expat package there and surely can't make the move on local wage. However, I understand that some people have received packages which are somewhere inbetween local and expat. Some companies, especially foreign companies still like to have some of "their people" in the office to be a bridge between both countries.

So anybody has any experience on finding jobs in my situation and salaries that can be obtained?

Thanks,

H.

The packages you are talking about are called "Local Plus" - they are becoming increasingly popular here in Singapore (I am on one)

No housing or school fee's or flights back yearly but very good package compared to a local including re-location, health, salary etc

It all depends on the industry and the position of course - in Banking and Finance for example there are a lot of expat packages (O&G as well now in boom times) while others are moving to the local plus.

I have not heard about these in Thailand (market too immature?) but i am out of touch with the Thai job market now.

Have you only thought about Thailand - what about Singapore or HK who are crying out for foreign talen right now - earn your money with an excellent modern lifestyle and spend it on vists to Thailand

Thanks Prakanong,

I appreciate your insight. "Local plus", that is exactly what I am talking about, some lucky ones even get a housing allowance with it. I am surely thinking about the markets you mentioned and will check those out as well.

However, I am still interested in info on "Local Plus" packages some foreigners might have gotten in Thailand and how they were able to find those jobs. Please keep sharing your insigh, it is highly appreciated.

Thanks,

H.

[Prakanong]

just give up, even with an MBA from Harvard they won't pay you more than a hundred if you are lucky.

Oh I think you might - depends how you get the job does it not?

Oh - we were paying a Harvard MBA and Chula first class degree holder less than that though - it was her first job after all and shae was Thai - can not break the pay structure

[Prudent_rabbit]

You might want to take a different approach, how much would your company pay to someone who has no local experience, cant speak the language and is looking for more than the local rate (plus a bit of housing benefit!) that will give you some idea about how hard your quest is.

First of all, it aint gonna happen with you sat at home and emailing CV's or Contacts, you must be here, network network network, seriously i would set aside at least 6 months here, purely to start building up a network of contacts within your fired, join relevant chamber of commerce's, network at events, speak to people, start building your CV, start learning your Thai, not just the language, but mentality, work behavior, Greng Jai, and how to deal with, not to mention the expat's famous Thai expression, Mai Pen Rai. Show potential Clients that you are out here to work, learn, observe, grow and hopefully will be able to transfer that across to any company that will be lucky to hire you, and your not just some bar hopping wannabe who liked it hear for his 2 weeks holiday.

Good luck

[tjo o tjim]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

[worldcitizen]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

[Prakanong]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

[worldcitizen]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

Thanks again for all the info. I owe you a drink if I make it over there next year.

To answer your question why they should pay me more than a local. I actually agree with you, in general there is no reason why I should get paid much more just for being a foreigner, you are right. However, as I mentioned before, even it might not be always fair, I know that sometimes US or EU companies hire people like me on "local plus" packages, because they want some of their nationals in the office in Thailand and we might represent a cheaper option than an expat sent there from HQ. Even we might not have the same knowlegde base as somebody that has been working at the headquarters, they consider this sometimes.

As for your ideas to network with chambers, I agree. At this point I am looking for some shared experience of people that have been "lucky enough" to find something I am looking for and what type of packages they have been offered. I just want to get an idea of what is realistically possible.

Thanks again to all, a great forum

H.

[Prakanong]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

Thanks again for all the info. I owe you a drink if I make it over there next year.

To answer your question why they should pay me more than a local. I actually agree with you, in general there is no reason why I should get paid much more just for being a foreigner, you are right. However, as I mentioned before, even it might not be always fair, I know that sometimes US or EU companies hire people like me on "local plus" packages, because they want some of their nationals in the office in Thailand and we might represent a cheaper option than an expat sent there from HQ. Even we might not have the same knowlegde base as somebody that has been working at the headquarters, they consider this sometimes.

As for your ideas to network with chambers, I agree. At this point I am looking for some shared experience of people that have been "lucky enough" to find something I am looking for and what type of packages they have been offered. I just want to get an idea of what is realistically possible.

Thanks again to all, a great forum

H.

Good luck - yes it is true they sometimes take a fellow "Farang" locally - it happens here too.

I sometime think its not fair either and feel a little guilty but get over it !

I am totally out of the market in Thailand but I do know guys who have picked up 100k to 200K plus in Thailand as local + in the past but none with housing as far as I know (info going back 2-5 years now)

[worldcitizen]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

Thanks again for all the info. I owe you a drink if I make it over there next year.

To answer your question why they should pay me more than a local. I actually agree with you, in general there is no reason why I should get paid much more just for being a foreigner, you are right. However, as I mentioned before, even it might not be always fair, I know that sometimes US or EU companies hire people like me on "local plus" packages, because they want some of their nationals in the office in Thailand and we might represent a cheaper option than an expat sent there from HQ. Even we might not have the same knowlegde base as somebody that has been working at the headquarters, they consider this sometimes.

As for your ideas to network with chambers, I agree. At this point I am looking for some shared experience of people that have been "lucky enough" to find something I am looking for and what type of packages they have been offered. I just want to get an idea of what is realistically possible.

Thanks again to all, a great forum

H.

Good luck - yes it is true they sometimes take a fellow "Farang" locally - it happens here too.

I sometime think its not fair either and feel a little guilty but get over it !

I am totally out of the market in Thailand but I do know guys who have picked up 100k to 200K plus in Thailand as local + in the past but none with housing as far as I know (info going back 2-5 years now)

Great, thanks for the info.

100k to 200k is not bad if I could find an interesting position, with that amound I could take care of my own housing I guess (dont need a penthouse to start, lol). I think that would allow me to get my foot in the door, learn more about the market and still live a decent lifestyle.

Anyway Prakanont, is there a way to keep in touch with you outside this forum. Seems like we have similar ideas and a passion for working in Asia. Id like to talk more sometime and share mutual experiences.

More info welcome on packages if somebody else has info.

Thanks,

H.

[Prakanong]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

Thanks again for all the info. I owe you a drink if I make it over there next year.

To answer your question why they should pay me more than a local. I actually agree with you, in general there is no reason why I should get paid much more just for being a foreigner, you are right. However, as I mentioned before, even it might not be always fair, I know that sometimes US or EU companies hire people like me on "local plus" packages, because they want some of their nationals in the office in Thailand and we might represent a cheaper option than an expat sent there from HQ. Even we might not have the same knowlegde base as somebody that has been working at the headquarters, they consider this sometimes.

As for your ideas to network with chambers, I agree. At this point I am looking for some shared experience of people that have been "lucky enough" to find something I am looking for and what type of packages they have been offered. I just want to get an idea of what is realistically possible.

Thanks again to all, a great forum

H.

Good luck - yes it is true they sometimes take a fellow "Farang" locally - it happens here too.

I sometime think its not fair either and feel a little guilty but get over it !

I am totally out of the market in Thailand but I do know guys who have picked up 100k to 200K plus in Thailand as local + in the past but none with housing as far as I know (info going back 2-5 years now)

Great, thanks for the info.

100k to 200k is not bad if I could find an interesting position, with that amound I could take care of my own housing I guess (dont need a penthouse to start, lol). I think that would allow me to get my foot in the door, learn more about the market and still live a decent lifestyle.

Anyway Prakanont, is there a way to keep in touch with you outside this forum. Seems like we have similar ideas and a passion for working in Asia. Id like to talk more sometime and share mutual experiences.

More info welcome on packages if somebody else has info.

Thanks,

H.

PM me and i will send you my email address

W can swap info - I am doing my MBA now part time in Singapore (oldest guy on the course I think )

[worldcitizen]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

Thanks again for all the info. I owe you a drink if I make it over there next year.

To answer your question why they should pay me more than a local. I actually agree with you, in general there is no reason why I should get paid much more just for being a foreigner, you are right. However, as I mentioned before, even it might not be always fair, I know that sometimes US or EU companies hire people like me on "local plus" packages, because they want some of their nationals in the office in Thailand and we might represent a cheaper option than an expat sent there from HQ. Even we might not have the same knowlegde base as somebody that has been working at the headquarters, they consider this sometimes.

As for your ideas to network with chambers, I agree. At this point I am looking for some shared experience of people that have been "lucky enough" to find something I am looking for and what type of packages they have been offered. I just want to get an idea of what is realistically possible.

Thanks again to all, a great forum

H.

Good luck - yes it is true they sometimes take a fellow "Farang" locally - it happens here too.

I sometime think its not fair either and feel a little guilty but get over it !

I am totally out of the market in Thailand but I do know guys who have picked up 100k to 200K plus in Thailand as local + in the past but none with housing as far as I know (info going back 2-5 years now)

Great, thanks for the info.

100k to 200k is not bad if I could find an interesting position, with that amound I could take care of my own housing I guess (dont need a penthouse to start, lol). I think that would allow me to get my foot in the door, learn more about the market and still live a decent lifestyle.

Anyway Prakanont, is there a way to keep in touch with you outside this forum. Seems like we have similar ideas and a passion for working in Asia. Id like to talk more sometime and share mutual experiences.

More info welcome on packages if somebody else has info.

Thanks,

H.

PM me and i will send you my email address

W can swap info - I am doing my MBA now part time in Singapore (oldest guy on the course I think )

I have sent you a message with my email address. Feel free to contact me anytime.

H.

[Prakanong]

One of the challenges employers face hiring an expat "off the street" is a fairly high turnover rate-- people come because they love the place, but (they or their spouse) get sick of it. It's true in every corner of paradise.

Prudent Rabbit is spot on; you will stand a much better chance if you can develop Thai language skills and show that you have some form of anchor for Thailand.

With your stated skills and interests, I would think HK would be a much more natural fit. (Same issues apply there though.)

Good luck

Thanks for your answers so far. I understand what you are saying. As expected it won't be an easy move to find a good position there.

However, I am still interested to hear more, especially from some foreigners that found a job there. Any more info on how you got your job there and possible salaries?

Thanks,

H.

Listen carefully to Prudent Rabbit - he is pretty much spot on. All guy's I know who got decent positions in-country got them though the networking process - often taking a lower paid job while attending all the Chamber functions and the like.

To get my job in Thaland I set up my own consultancy - I did have contacts though and one head of chamber of commerce who I had know years also said he could fine me work at that time in my area.

The question is though why should anyone employ you over a local on what will be 3 to 5 times their salary plus a housing benefit you want?

MBA - nah - as I have said we just took a girl into the entry level professional grade at our company. She has a Harvard MBA, First class in Pharma from Chula, perfect English, speaks Mandarin and of course is fluent Thai - what do you give me over her?

Thai's are oh so picky about Uni and where you did the MBA too - I hear it al the time even though its against company policy to discriminate.

I am not so sure you need Thai though for EVERY work position - depends on the company of course but at mine you would not for roles that a non-Thai would be considerd for. Of course its much better to have it both professionally and socially.

Thanks again for all the info. I owe you a drink if I make it over there next year.

To answer your question why they should pay me more than a local. I actually agree with you, in general there is no reason why I should get paid much more just for being a foreigner, you are right. However, as I mentioned before, even it might not be always fair, I know that sometimes US or EU companies hire people like me on "local plus" packages, because they want some of their nationals in the office in Thailand and we might represent a cheaper option than an expat sent there from HQ. Even we might not have the same knowlegde base as somebody that has been working at the headquarters, they consider this sometimes.

As for your ideas to network with chambers, I agree. At this point I am looking for some shared experience of people that have been "lucky enough" to find something I am looking for and what type of packages they have been offered. I just want to get an idea of what is realistically possible.

Thanks again to all, a great forum

H.

Good luck - yes it is true they sometimes take a fellow "Farang" locally - it happens here too.

I sometime think its not fair either and feel a little guilty but get over it !

I am totally out of the market in Thailand but I do know guys who have picked up 100k to 200K plus in Thailand as local + in the past but none with housing as far as I know (info going back 2-5 years now)

Great, thanks for the info.

100k to 200k is not bad if I could find an interesting position, with that amound I could take care of my own housing I guess (dont need a penthouse to start, lol). I think that would allow me to get my foot in the door, learn more about the market and still live a decent lifestyle.

Anyway Prakanont, is there a way to keep in touch with you outside this forum. Seems like we have similar ideas and a passion for working in Asia. Id like to talk more sometime and share mutual experiences.

More info welcome on packages if somebody else has info.

Thanks,

H.

PM me and i will send you my email address

W can swap info - I am doing my MBA now part time in Singapore (oldest guy on the course I think )

I have sent you a message with my email address. Feel free to contact me anytime.

H.

Got it an I will.

[JSixpack]

100k to 200k is not bad if I could find an interesting position

Ah, such big IFs. Even if by some extraordinarly luck you managed to wrangle 100K by hanging around and jawboning, the question then becomes, where will it lead? If it doesn't lead anywhere, chances are you'll be moved out before too long--one way or the other. Perhaps by that time you'll be ready to start something of your own if you can stand the hassle. Needn't tell you the success rate of new foreign-owned SMEs in Thailand . . . . However, some extraordinary few do succeed and they certainly earn their success. But then if you want to resume a career back in the West, you've then got a questionable record and things become much more difficult.

Unfortunately, a lot of jobs in Asia turn out to be dead ends. In a Western co., the career path is really back at the head offices. In a local company, the higher positions will be reserved for locals.

HK, Singapore, and Japan are the best bets in Asia, if you're serious. Even there, a general MBA from a second-rate uni doesn't carry much weight if any. Now if you've got an impressive track record in a technical specialty like share trading, your chances are of course much better.

Sorry to be discouraging about Thailand. My general philosopy is "earn in First World country with a strong currency; spend in a Third World country with a weak currency." Maximize returns for effort expended!

Edited December 17, 2007 by JSixpack

[steveromagnino]

I am interested to know about posibilities to find a job in Bangkok that might fit my profile. I know that some will suggest to find a job in the EU and get send over, but I am interested about chances to find a job directly in Thailand. I understand that this way I am likely not to receive big expat benefits, but I have heard that some people still receive decent packages even they found their job there.

My main interest is at foreign MNC working in Marketing or Strategy, but I will consider other positions as well if challenging.

5 years of work experience is not that much, but certainly it is possible to get a decent income provided you are willing to invest the time. TO put in perspective, I work in much the same industry, am for the most part not able to access true expat salaries (as I am part Thai); my existing main client fee (I consult) is within the 100-200k range and has been for the last few years, but my new job is far beyond that.

However, I started with my first job following from working in the entertainment industry on quite a bit less than 100k. And....I can speak Thai and had similar experience back then (not including the MBA) to you. Possibly a stronger CV work experience wise, and at a guess better university grades.

My advice...go to Singapore/HK then try to transfer across.

Alternative if you HAVE to be here, come here, get a job as a consultant for any salary that will get you in front of clients, and you should get a few decent bumps in salary as you go client side and hop around a bit, should be pushing the top end of the 100-200k range within a couple of years if you play cards right. But you have to be willing to start and do the grind, total guess, 60-80k no other major benefits for the first 3 months.

The 'expat package' is getting harder and harder to find for a few reasons:

- decent Thai staff with the same education (Harvard, Yale, Oxford etc) are easier to find and far greater in numbers

- internet/decent agencies make recruitment easier

- the aura of the smart farang is being slightly eroded with the aura of the Nana plaza farang; many of whom are willing to work doing almost anything just for the chance to stay here and do god knows what

- the last 2 years business has not been perhaps so easy due to economic issues

- increased range of expats from Singapore/China/Korea/Japan (at least from what I've seen) and slightly less farang

- increasing specialisation required rather than general business skills - still some wonderful expat packages out there, no doubt, but they are less and less in the 'VP marketing' category and more in the specialist expertise area

- the importance of english is eroding; businesses are learning that maybe english is not the most important thing; plus a bunch more expats can actually speak Thai these days

Most of the MNEs who are alledgedly strong in marketing - Unilever, P&G, blah blah blah have fewer expats at the top than perhaps a few years ago; they have actively groomed locals to take over many of the key positions; you might actually do better going to companies a rung down that actually need a foreigner - e.g. Osotspa trying to expand abroad or similar. If you want to work for a genuine marketer, then you won't have the local knowledge to do a good job early on unless you have some area of expertise such as datamining that is hot right now. Perhaps a market research firm might be a nice in, as Thai market research firms are often foreign chains, and almost all market research worldwide is lousy, so coming here you can charge western rates to clients, do a fairly substandard job and you will still be pretty decent. But you have to work in research and marketing research at that. That's like military intelligence.

I'd hit up the consulting firms Accenture and other tosspot types, as my first line of approach if strategy is your thing. But don't get too obsessed with Thailand, as you haven't yet sold me that you offer anything more than a local yet, with the considerable detriment of not speaking Thai, not knowing the local market and probably not being a sound manager of local staff - all quite important factors in the field of marketing and strategy.

Edited December 17, 2007 by steveromagnino

[ukjackthai]

It's all about what you can bring to the table. You have 3 overseas professional qualifications, 3 fluent spoken languages, European nationality and five years international experience in marketing. I just ran a search and I'd say you have a good chance of getting hired in one of the 11,000+ marketing companies in Thailand with that resume. But you need to be commited as some members have already stated - language, lifestyle, 'networking' etc.

Packages:

For a career in the marketing industry in Thailand I see packages ranging from 75K - 150K with the top pay being 189K [MD]

1 guy for example, An American marketing consultant with a BA and 5 years marketing experience brings home 96k a month.

Housing and travel etc. are negotiable with the employing company. They'll take into account that you’re relocating from overseas and i'm sure they'll give you something. But, more often than not, if you don't ask - you don't get.

Now the job search begins!

Build up your resume and send it everywhere. Even if you are not suited to the employing company they will keep it for later opportunities. Make yourself heard! www.wrightcompany.com bluesteps.com AESC.com run a search for marketing companies/recruitment companies/Executive search firms in Google and send them emails just to let them know your here!

Edited December 17, 2007 by ukjackthai

[Prakanong]

"My advice...go to Singapore/HK then try to transfer across."

I would agree 100% - I did it the other way around (I tend to do things like that!) but I did Europe for 6 years in between.

"the aura of the smart farang is being slightly eroded with the aura of the Nana plaza farang; many of whom are willing to work doing almost anything just for the chance to stay here and do god knows what"

Do you think so?

10+ years ago the expats with the "Good" jobs used to hang around NEP and the likes more than they do now I think - just my perception

Of course you do not get the Engrisch Teacher so much in the bar's lie that either - they could afford it more in the past but price rises of "staff" and goods (beer) have risen faster than their salary's.

All companies now are looking at costs and getting the best talent and local talent while being just as good are usually a lot cheaper. Yes the salaries of local staff are rising and often equivalent to an expat but there are no schooling costs, housing, flights etc etc.

[worldcitizen]

"My advice...go to Singapore/HK then try to transfer across."

I would agree 100% - I did it the other way around (I tend to do things like that!) but I did Europe for 6 years in between.

"the aura of the smart farang is being slightly eroded with the aura of the Nana plaza farang; many of whom are willing to work doing almost anything just for the chance to stay here and do god knows what"

Do you think so?

10+ years ago the expats with the "Good" jobs used to hang around NEP and the likes more than they do now I think - just my percepti

Of course you do not get the Engrisch Teacher so much in the bar's lie that either - they could afford it more in the past but price rises of "staff" and goods (beer) have risen faster than their salary's.

All companies now are looking at costs and getting the best talent and local talent while being just as good are usually a lot cheaper. Yes the salaries of local staff are rising and often equivalent to an expat but there are no schooling costs, housing, flights etc etc.

Thanks for all the great info.

As I previously mentioned Thailand is just option and I am also looking at other countries.

Steveromagnino, you provided lots of good info. I am curious when you say "I consult" for 100k -200k (per month or contract), do you mean you work as a markting consultant for a company or do you run your own business? You mention starting as a consultant, do you recommend any companies that hire foreigners like me? (and as for my grades, B.S. with Honors and MBA with Distinction, but I have to say its not a big name school to be fair, did not have 50k-90k US to pay for such an MBA)

As for the market research part, well I heard before that it can be a viable business option in Thailand, but I prefer working on other marketing areas, research is not the most exciting. However, I don't mind to freelance on the side once I am working there.

UKjackthai. Thanks for all the info as well. When you talk about 11000+ marketing firms, do you mean marketing consulting firms, sounds like too many, hehe. I also appreciate the salary samples, its a good starting point to know what is available.

Prakanont, once gain thanks for all your input. I look forward to talk with you per email or in IM.

Thanks,

H.

[steveromagnino]

Steveromagnino, you provided lots of good info. I am curious when you say "I consult" for 100k -200k (per month or contract), do you mean you work as a markting consultant for a company or do you run your own business? You mention starting as a consultant, do you recommend any companies that hire foreigners like me? (and as for my grades, B.S. with Honors and MBA with Distinction, but I have to say its not a big name school to be fair, did not have 50k-90k US to pay for such an MBA)

As for the market research part, well I heard before that it can be a viable business option in Thailand, but I prefer working on other marketing areas, research is not the most exciting. However, I don't mind to freelance on the side once I am working there.

Well, currently i have several clients, but the one I started working with for less than 60k a month 4 years ago now pays me somewhere in the realm of the 100-200k range to work almost full time for them; however I charge a similar amount to some other clients as well from time to time, and have some minor smaller contracts....all up I will state IMHO that a westerner, in particular an American, will struggle to live a decent life here earning less than about 60k in Bangkok. 100k is at a point where you might save a tiny amount, and have some sort of life; 150k+ is where life starts to get a bit better and you can be saving and still enjoying life at something comparable to life abroad.

My own work history is rather odd and involved leveraging a lot from my notoriety from a previous career choice; initially it paid nothing, now i am getting the benefits of actually having a brain (just), speaking Thai (sort of) and being somewhat known in the field of work I mostly do.

If you think that you bring something to the table as a marketer, well.....bit tough without the local knowledge. Get some time on the ground here, and then see how you go; sink or swim mate. I have a friend who did that; started as an intern, worked in agency life for the last 7 years, only in the last 2 would he be earning close to or above 100k; but he has now 'made it'. Research, well no one wants to do research, so that is why i suggested it. Everyone wants to be an agency wanke_r, no one wants to do the analysis..... i.e. the actual work.

Prakanong - I take your point and would agree the latest batch of westerners here, most of the guys I know, have no interest in propping up bar corners; however they are accutely aware of the reputations, probably crafted as the result of the old coots from 10 years ago who had managed to get by prior to and during the Asian crisis; the younger guys are mostly go getters and Thai speakers, fit in a bit more than the older generation in some ways; I guess they have to as it isn't quite as easy as before with a lot more foreigners running around. Globalisation and all dat.

BTW I think I know your friend of Colypat you are referring to in another thread...do the words 'I fink I larv yeow' ring any bells? Or allegations of involvement with some fairly suspect websites? Great bloke that fella, haven't seen him in years though.....

[Prakanong]

Steveromagnino, you provided lots of good info. I am curious when you say "I consult" for 100k -200k (per month or contract), do you mean you work as a markting consultant for a company or do you run your own business? You mention starting as a consultant, do you recommend any companies that hire foreigners like me? (and as for my grades, B.S. with Honors and MBA with Distinction, but I have to say its not a big name school to be fair, did not have 50k-90k US to pay for such an MBA)

As for the market research part, well I heard before that it can be a viable business option in Thailand, but I prefer working on other marketing areas, research is not the most exciting. However, I don't mind to freelance on the side once I am working there.

Well, currently i have several clients, but the one I started working with for less than 60k a month 4 years ago now pays me somewhere in the realm of the 100-200k range to work almost full time for them; however I charge a similar amount to some other clients as well from time to time, and have some minor smaller contracts....all up I will state IMHO that a westerner, in particular an American, will struggle to live a decent life here earning less than about 60k in Bangkok. 100k is at a point where you might save a tiny amount, and have some sort of life; 150k+ is where life starts to get a bit better and you can be saving and still enjoying life at something comparable to life abroad.

My own work history is rather odd and involved leveraging a lot from my notoriety from a previous career choice; initially it paid nothing, now i am getting the benefits of actually having a brain (just), speaking Thai (sort of) and being somewhat known in the field of work I mostly do.

If you think that you bring something to the table as a marketer, well.....bit tough without the local knowledge. Get some time on the ground here, and then see how you go; sink or swim mate. I have a friend who did that; started as an intern, worked in agency life for the last 7 years, only in the last 2 would he be earning close to or above 100k; but he has now 'made it'. Research, well no one wants to do research, so that is why i suggested it. Everyone wants to be an agency wanke_r, no one wants to do the analysis..... i.e. the actual work.

Prakanong - I take your point and would agree the latest batch of westerners here, most of the guys I know, have no interest in propping up bar corners; however they are accutely aware of the reputations, probably crafted as the result of the old coots from 10 years ago who had managed to get by prior to and during the Asian crisis; the younger guys are mostly go getters and Thai speakers, fit in a bit more than the older generation in some ways; I guess they have to as it isn't quite as easy as before with a lot more foreigners running around. Globalisation and all dat.

BTW I think I know your friend of Colypat you are referring to in another thread...do the words 'I fink I larv yeow' ring any bells? Or allegations of involvement with some fairly suspect websites? Great bloke that fella, haven't seen him in years though.....

I know who you are now ;-))

I had thought about it before but kept quiet

So you do not hide under tables in Thai soap opera's any more

OldKwai

[naka]

I am always amused by posts like the OP.

Having travelled the world as an expat for decades my priorities were

the job and the salary.

The location was seldom as important.

I can only assume that philandering is more important to the OP than actually working

Naka.

[NordicMan]

My experience tells me that the vast majority of decent salary package jobs in Bangkok or Thailand are expat positions where your MNC has sent you here and thus you have a western salary with additional expat benefits. I would imagine trying to get an expat position here is almost impossible and working for near Thai wages would be impossible but for a very different reason.

Think about it from my perspective if I am your prospective employer. Why should I employ you ? What can you bring that I cannot get from a Thai with far more expereince who will cost far far less as you will be disenchanted with a low package ?

I'd try and make some contacts first and think carefully why you want to stop doing whatever it is you are doing (or do i read that you are unemployed ?) and come here ? Don't just do it for the sex.

Thanks for your reply. I am not unemployed at this time, but I will leave the US soon for visa reasons. Furthermore, I have been in Asia before and ever since want to return as I believe those markets are very dynamic and I like to learn more about business in Asia and its different cultures (believe me its not for the sex). I am looking also at other markets, but Thailand is one of the options.

I understand that I won't get an expat package there and surely can't make the move on local wage. However, I understand that some people have received packages which are somewhere inbetween local and expat. Some companies, especially foreign companies still like to have some of "their people" in the office to be a bridge between both countries.

So anybody has any experience on finding jobs in my situation and salaries that can be obtained?

Thanks,

H.

The packages you are talking about are called "Local Plus" - they are becoming increasingly popular here in Singapore (I am on one)

No housing or school fee's or flights back yearly but very good package compared to a local including re-location, health, salary etc

It all depends on the industry and the position of course - in Banking and Finance for example there are a lot of expat packages (O&G as well now in boom times) while others are moving to the local plus.

I have not heard about these in Thailand (market too immature?) but i am out of touch with the Thai job market now.

Have you only thought about Thailand - what about Singapore or HK who are crying out for foreign talen right now - earn your money with an excellent modern lifestyle and spend it on vists to Thailand

I can only echo Prakanong's advice here - set your sails for SG or HK instead. Of all the southeast Asian countries, why would you choose Thailand? There are many reasons, but few of them are related to career or money. This is from my undestanding that you are pursuing a career in marketing / "office jobs", not that you are interested in doing anything on the planet.

There are virtually no language barriers in SG, work permit is a breeze, job market is strong, they have a culture of hiring foreigners at local+ package, salary levels are high (at least in Southeast Asian terms). Your chances of landing a job in SG is astronomically much higher than in TH. As you are about to leave US anyway, you can do as I did (a decade ago)... get a one-way ticket to SG, take all your savings money, stay in the cheapest hotel you can find and apply for jobs every day. There are no issues with tourist visa, as you can just go to Msia and back again to renew your visa. -You can easily stay until your funds run out, or you get a job.

When you do have a job in SG, build your TH network. It costs next to nothing to fly SG-BKK, you can do that any weekend you like. Your chances of landing that job in TH is extremely much higher if you are already on the ground and working in SG, instead of emailing CVs from USA. Or, maybe after a while, you decide that career is more important, and decide to stay in SG instead, and just go to TH for holidays.

The above may also be true for HK, but I am not that familiar with it. Work permits and language are slightly more difficult there though.

edit: Oh, and I should add that, in case your real reason for choosing Thailand is indeed girls (but prefer not to say so publicly), they are available in SG as well, perhaps to a slightly less degree. Both those for rent and those that actually like you.

cheers and good luck

nm

Edited December 18, 2007 by NordicMan

[Prakanong]

Excellent post Nordic Man - you say all I would say if i was more erudite with my postings.

The only slight difference now though and 10 yeas ago is that he need not go on "Visa Runs" with the EPEC

Employment Pass Eligibility Certificate (EPEC)

• If you are not a Singapore citizen and wish to work in Singapore, you have to first secure a job offer here. To spend some time in Singapore to look for a job, you can apply for the Employment Pass Eligibility Certificate (EPEC). EPEC grants the holder a Social Visit Pass valid for up to one year. The EPEC is issued on a one-time basis and is strictly non-renewable.
  
• You may apply for EPEC if you hold any of the selected university qualifications or if you are a current or former holder of selected skilled migrant visas You should apply for an EPEC only when you are ready to come to Singapore. You will still require the relevant visa to enter Singapore (if a visa is required) even if you hold a valid EPEC.
  
• With effect from 2 May 07, all EPEC applications must be submitted online.
  

[worldcitizen]

My experience tells me that the vast majority of decent salary package jobs in Bangkok or Thailand are expat positions where your MNC has sent you here and thus you have a western salary with additional expat benefits. I would imagine trying to get an expat position here is almost impossible and working for near Thai wages would be impossible but for a very different reason.

Think about it from my perspective if I am your prospective employer. Why should I employ you ? What can you bring that I cannot get from a Thai with far more expereince who will cost far far less as you will be disenchanted with a low package ?

I'd try and make some contacts first and think carefully why you want to stop doing whatever it is you are doing (or do i read that you are unemployed ?) and come here ? Don't just do it for the sex.

Thanks for your reply. I am not unemployed at this time, but I will leave the US soon for visa reasons. Furthermore, I have been in Asia before and ever since want to return as I believe those markets are very dynamic and I like to learn more about business in Asia and its different cultures (believe me its not for the sex). I am looking also at other markets, but Thailand is one of the options.

I understand that I won't get an expat package there and surely can't make the move on local wage. However, I understand that some people have received packages which are somewhere inbetween local and expat. Some companies, especially foreign companies still like to have some of "their people" in the office to be a bridge between both countries.

So anybody has any experience on finding jobs in my situation and salaries that can be obtained?

Thanks,

H.

The packages you are talking about are called "Local Plus" - they are becoming increasingly popular here in Singapore (I am on one)

No housing or school fee's or flights back yearly but very good package compared to a local including re-location, health, salary etc

It all depends on the industry and the position of course - in Banking and Finance for example there are a lot of expat packages (O&G as well now in boom times) while others are moving to the local plus.

I have not heard about these in Thailand (market too immature?) but i am out of touch with the Thai job market now.

Have you only thought about Thailand - what about Singapore or HK who are crying out for foreign talen right now - earn your money with an excellent modern lifestyle and spend it on vists to Thailand

I can only echo Prakanong's advice here - set your sails for SG or HK instead. Of all the southeast Asian countries, why would you choose Thailand? There are many reasons, but few of them are related to career or money. This is from my undestanding that you are pursuing a career in marketing / "office jobs", not that you are interested in doing anything on the planet.

There are virtually no language barriers in SG, work permit is a breeze, job market is strong, they have a culture of hiring foreigners at local+ package, salary levels are high (at least in Southeast Asian terms). Your chances of landing a job in SG is astronomically much higher than in TH. As you are about to leave US anyway, you can do as I did (a decade ago)... get a one-way ticket to SG, take all your savings money, stay in the cheapest hotel you can find and apply for jobs every day. There are no issues with tourist visa, as you can just go to Msia and back again to renew your visa. -You can easily stay until your funds run out, or you get a job.

When you do have a job in SG, build your TH network. It costs next to nothing to fly SG-BKK, you can do that any weekend you like. Your chances of landing that job in TH is extremely much higher if you are already on the ground and working in SG, instead of emailing CVs from USA. Or, maybe after a while, you decide that career is more important, and decide to stay in SG instead, and just go to TH for holidays.

The above may also be true for HK, but I am not that familiar with it. Work permits and language are slightly more difficult there though.

edit: Oh, and I should add that, in case your real reason for choosing Thailand is indeed girls (but prefer not to say so publicly), they are available in SG as well, perhaps to a slightly less degree. Both those for rent and those that actually like you.

cheers and good luck

nm

Thanks Nordicman,

As for the girls, its really not that, pretty girls can be found anywhere, hehe. I will surely look also in Spore, HK for jobs.

One of the reasons I consider also Thailand and Malaysia is that I believe that countries which are still developing represent sometimes more business opportunities for companies as well as entrepreneurs. I understand the challenges compared to working in Spore and HK, but where there are challenges there are opportunities.

Besides, unless I get a housing allowance in Spore or HK it will be hard to find good housing at a reasonable price. In Thailand or Malaysia (even if the salary is lower, but still competitive) I will be able to afford nice housing or even buy a condo or home instead of just renting. In Spore or HK this seems very difficult with the current prices.

Fortunatelly or unfortunatelly I am single now and have the flexibility to search in various locations, but I agree that being at a business hub can be a better career move. We will see what happens and works out best. I really appreciate all the insight so far and look forward to explore future opportunities in Asia. Somehow I am fascinated by market dynamics, cultural factors, etc. that make business there different from western countries. I really want to develop professionaly into an "Asia expert".

Looking forward to it.

Thanks,

H.

[Prakanong]

If you want "entrepeneur" in a dynamic market try India, China or Vietnam - forget about Thailand or Malaysia

Look at the Forbes rich list for each country and an article by a Bloomberg journo called Andy Mukerhjee - private enterprise not fdoing anything in THailand compared to elsewhere - no new entrepeneurs appearing on the monely lists - just more and more of the olf families and only 2 Thai companies seen as half decent CP and Thai Union Food

The "Asia Expert" is an interesting notion as well

I have just completed a wide rangeing survey about the systems we use across Asia and the answers are amusing and interesting. Next time I will not be giving the option of neutral on a Likert Scale though

I have discussed how we will handle the neutral answers and the Asians (mostly Chinese ones) said assume the neutral means not good. The African said it should not be in. My boss who is from the PI said remove them all????

Its all this Kreng Jai malarkey and Confucian avoiding conflict.

The Japanese do what is good for the group and even copied word for word in the area's for free text freedback.

Ayn Rand - The Fountainhead it is not!

[worldcitizen]

If you want "entrepeneur" in a dynamic market try India, China or Vietnam - forget about Thailand or Malaysia

Look at the Forbes rich list for each country and an article by a Bloomberg journo called Andy Mukerhjee - private enterprise not fdoing anything in THailand compared to elsewhere - no new entrepeneurs appearing on the monely lists - just more and more of the olf families and only 2 Thai companies seen as half decent CP and Thai Union Food

The "Asia Expert" is an interesting notion as well

I have just completed a wide rangeing survey about the systems we use across Asia and the answers are amusing and interesting. Next time I will not be giving the option of neutral on a Likert Scale though

I have discussed how we will handle the neutral answers and the Asians (mostly Chinese ones) said assume the neutral means not good. The African said it should not be in. My boss who is from the PI said remove them all????

Its all this Kreng Jai malarkey and Confucian avoiding conflict.

The Japanese do what is good for the group and even copied word for word in the area's for free text freedback.

Ayn Rand - The Fountainhead it is not!

Very interesting Prakanong.

I agree that there are big differences among Asians. Even at my current job doing multicultural market research in the US I encounter those challenges when dealing with numerous Asian American groups, especially US born vs. immigrant.

I lived in Japan, some time in Korea and have dealt with South and South East Asians and its so interesting how they deal with certain situations. The Japanese concept of Honne and Tatemae, seniority issues, confucian influence, etc. they make doing busuiness difficult but also tremendously interesting.

Its those little things that also attract me to being in Asia, maybe its just me, but growing up in a small town in Germany I did not have any exposure to all that. However, after interacting with more Asians during my studies and time in Asia I have learned valuable things about the different cultural aspects, but still so much to learn.

Anyway, keep in touch

H.