Tourist Visa Rejected

[thaiman]

Was aware of the situation in ventiane.............but considering i have never been to Penang, i thought it should be no problem. What worries me is that Penang rejected my tourist visa application on the basis of a remark(not red stamp) on my last visa recieved in Singapore.

I would like to add that im only a tourist on an extended holiday here in Thailand. By having a tourist visa i find it easier for longer term planning. Before my last entry i have never used the 30 day stamp.

My main concern is the fact that regional embassies (Penang) will reject your application when they see remarks or warning stamps from other embassies.

This is not a fact. Penang may have rejected your TV application purely based on your having 2 TV's in your passport from this year.

So by having more than 2 tv's in a given year can be grounds for refusal of an additional one? Can this be confirmed by someone?

[tropo]

Was aware of the situation in ventiane.............but considering i have never been to Penang, i thought it should be no problem. What worries me is that Penang rejected my tourist visa application on the basis of a remark(not red stamp) on my last visa recieved in Singapore.

I would like to add that im only a tourist on an extended holiday here in Thailand. By having a tourist visa i find it easier for longer term planning. Before my last entry i have never used the 30 day stamp.

My main concern is the fact that regional embassies (Penang) will reject your application when they see remarks or warning stamps from other embassies.

This is not a fact. Penang may have rejected your TV application purely based on your having 2 TV's in your passport from this year.

So by having more than 2 tv's in a given year can be grounds for refusal of an additional one? Can this be confirmed by someone?

Penang is getting tougher every month. There's no rule, and anything could happen. People were getting warning stamps after 2 TV's. People were being refused with 3 TV's in their passports over several years.

I would not take the risk of going there for a TV if I had 2 from the same year already in my passport. The bottom line is that the consulate there is taking a dim view of anyone who looks like they are living full-time in Thailand on tourist visas.

There is no certainty in Penang and it would probably be better to look for other options.

Edited December 20, 2007 by tropo

[Tantoo]

I never had problems in Penang, but I did in Hong Kong and Singapore. The receptionist at both looked at my passport and denied me even filling out an application for a visa. Too many Thai stamps in my passport.

Jim (I think his place is called Jim's place) or the other vendors near Swiss Hotel always got my visas and work permits done in Penang. I heard now that the easiest is to go to your home country.

[cali4995]

Thank you Chris

I used an agent in Penang on the advice of this forum. (next to Swiss hotel) The agent informed me that Penang rejected the application on the basis of the remark in Singapore. This came as a shock to me as my passport clearly shows that i dont live in Thailand.

Im back in Thailand on a 30 day stamp and weighing up my options right now. Looks like i will cut my holiday short as i dont want to be held hostage to the mood of an immigration officer.

This is an excellent forum with lots of good advice, but there does seem to be no clear idea of how many visas in a set period of time we are allowed. If it is only two per year then it would be nice to know this fact for holiday planning purposes.

robbiecia, i think most people would agree with your assessment. the current situation

is a little ridiculous but that's what we have to deal with. you have 90 visa-exempt days

to play with and in that time you could plan to make another tourist visa trip. some

people replace their passports to dispense with the offending stamps and i can't argue

that i wouldn't want them in my passport either. and you're obviously not a serial tourist

and their is nothing wrong with that anyway. if they wanted to cut down on people working

in the kingdom on tourist visas, i don't think it would be that difficult to directly address that

problem. in pattaya alone there are probably a few hundred tailor salesmen without work

permits. they don't speak thai so i assume they're not thai nationals. i mean, it isn't all that

much of a mystery. so, if you have strong ties here you have to jump through all the

additional hoops or examine other options. some travellers have commented they found

other countries in the region intriguing while visiting and that is also a choice.

[007]

Do you really think these stats reflect the spending of long-stay tourists? I don't think they do.

Long stay tourists usually left the country officially every 30 days or so (border and visa runs) at the time these figures were compiled, so that would bring down the official average length of stay considerably and not reflect the real situation. eg. A tourist who used to do monthly border runs would have registered as 12 tourists staying 30 days each time.

Spot on, tropo!

Also, the long stay tourists I know (self-employed high income earners in the West), who stay for six months in a row in Thailand every year to escape autumn and winter, do not dine at first-class restaurants and do not stay at first-class hotels Each and Every day.

These venues are, I guess, where the TAT gets its 'tourist daily expenditures' from. The numbers are probably flawed, while the number of tourists is (rather) correct, as Immigration forms allow an exact headcount. Also, please note, that the TAT for the past few years has disabled the 'Monthly visitor number statistics - numbers and graph'. They did this once tourist numbers started to drop in late 2004. All you can find now on the TAT webpage is last year's numbers and rosy future projections and fantasy numbers of what tourist Should be spending.

[stevenl]

My main concern is the fact that regional embassies (Penang) will reject your application when they see remarks or warning stamps from other embassies.

The previous stamp could be the reason, but from your posts I can not be sure that really is the reason.

I would hope so though, because I would find it justified that one embassy does exactly the same thing as another embassy.

[GetBackJoJo]

They have this mistaken perception that people will travel here for 30 days, shower money on the

local economy, and then jet back to their home countries to save money for next year.

I am sorry. You are the one who is mistaken.

Take a look at the TAT statistics.

The average visitor does not stay more than 9 days and that has varied little over the last 10 years.

The amount visitors spend has gone up, by 50%

That may be because of the way they include visa runners, or border bouncers, into the stats. For example, i am on a 12 month non B visa. Obviously i have to border bounce every 90 days as i do not have (or need) a work permit. However I have lived here for 4.5 years. I would bet though that if you could break down the stats for me personaly (which is impossible of course) it would show that I stay in Thailand for 90 days at a time.

So in there eyes, i 'holiday' here for 90 days.

Do you see my point? When i do a border bounce, i leave Thailand for litteraly 2 hours, and then re-enter. I would bet they consider this as my staying for 90 days when in reality, i have been staying here for 4.5 years.

Even if i am wrong, i still do not trust the stats and i agree with previous poster; there are many thousands, tens of thousands possibly, of people that come here for a year or two for a holiday. I can think of at least a dozen people that have been here more than 2 years, just having one long ex-pat style holiday, living off there bank ballance in the UK. Its people like this that are being affected - the people that throw average 70-80,000 Baht into the Thai economy very month, every year.

[tropo]

That may be because of the way they include visa runners, or border bouncers, into the stats. For example, i am on a 12 month non B visa. Obviously i have to border bounce every 90 days as i do not have (or need) a work permit. However I have lived here for 4.5 years. I would bet though that if you could break down the stats for me personaly (which is impossible of course) it would show that I stay in Thailand for 90 days at a time.

So in there eyes, i 'holiday' here for 90 days.

Do you see my point? When i do a border bounce, i leave Thailand for litteraly 2 hours, and then re-enter. I would bet they consider this as my staying for 90 days when in reality, i have been staying here for 4.5 years.

This point had already been covered in the replies above (twice). Of course this is a good reason why the stats presented are skewed.

[maxbentley]

Having spent seven or eight years being in and around Thailand for lengthy periods of time I can say that although the Thais are by and large good folks the gig seems to be up.

When they make it difficult to enter and stay then I feel their concern and I move on.

I spent a minimum of 30,000 baht every month I visited Thailand.I have made several large purchases on top of my monthly living expenses in the time I spent there.

Having travelled to every region of Thailand I can tell you that there are far more Laotians,Cambodians,Burmese and other ethnic peoples in Thailand illegally and making and spending little to nothing at all.

Thailand seems to have an historic caste system and is now developing nicely economically.

I have a love for Thailand and many of its people but do not feel overly welcome as I once did years ago.

So,now,I move around.

Indonesia is half the price of Thailand for food and expenses.The people are nice and there are few tourists apart from Bali and Jakarta.

Viet Nam is vibrant.

Cambodia is not Thailand but the folks are nice and it can be good there.

Laos is absolutely stunning.

I really want to see the Philippines,China and Burma,when /or/ and if it evolves.

Malaysia is really modern with nice folks and great foods and peoples.

I now just find a nice hotel in each of the countries I wish to stay in and spend a few months at each.

If Thailand is changing then we have to change,as well.

Thailand is great but it is a small fish in a big ocean.

Get out and see the world.It is a beautiful place-beyond the LOS.

When we all get out and leave-my guess is they will change their rules and attitudes.

If not-bye,bye Thailand and hello ROP-rest of the planet.

[MartinBKK]

The current situation does seem ridiculous - genuine tourists cannot now get a visa in many cases.

IMO things will definitely ease up though - i have been coming to Thailand for years and have never seen so few tourists as i have in the last 12 months. BKK is dead, taxi drivers and shop keepers are all complaining about the lack of tourists.

Here in chiangmai the night market is very quiet for this time of year, the spas are empty as are the golf courses. Many vendors have told me that this year has been the worst they can remember. I think we may find the new government take a whole new look at the visa situation.

[MackDrag0n]

Many other places to visit besides LOS. Better treated as well. Not just in Asia either.

[bangkokgas]

Interesting thread and non-conclusive of course as many of us know. Theoretically, one can do 2 t.v.'s and the border runs which adds up to ......... a whole year. Last week in laos (vientiane) there were approx 200-300 mostly African or Phillipinos/as applying for t.v.'s and judging by their smile as they collected their passports, most or all were approved. And I can't believe for a second that they all had new passports and were applying for the first time. Hey ho!

[Dupont]

Many other places to visit besides LOS. Better treated as well. Not just in Asia either.

More and more with every passing year.

All the old basket cases (except Burma but even then, who knows ) and the old war zones are cleaning up their acts and drawing more of us in. Problem here is they have had no serious competition for resources and tourists in the region for the past 50 years and have responded accordingly ie. become complacent and resting on their laurels.

As with here, once enough expats set up in a country, the infrastructure and tourist support mechanisms improve. Couple this with the obvious zeal and drive of a people like the vietnamese and anything is possible.

[thaikahuna]

Thought Penang was a bit harsh rejecting me...... have been in Thailand for a total of six months this year. when i got my second tourist visa in singapore they remarked do not apply here again. Apparently Penang rejected me on the basis of that remark

Seems to me that you failed to heed fair warning. Keep in mind, its THEIR country and THEY make the rules we have to live by them.

[Samuian]

ohohoho behold!

A Tourist is considered a Tourist, a traveler, someone who comes on holidays, to relax off work, go sunbathing, swimming and is living in a Hotel/Guesthouse etc.

Guess that is why there are VoA and Tourist Visas issued, and fair enough for a lengthy time of 60 days if you go to apply for one and they will give you a second one that gives the applicant a wacking 120 days for a holiday!

Remember it is called a tourist visa because it is considered to be utilized by a Tourist, not for someone who wants to stay in this country, for those there are other, according to the law, a bit stricter options!

Then there are Non-Immi "O" for Other, as in being married, retired.... and there is "B" for people having a Job, running a company etc.

I have the latter, plus a WP and NEVER EVER had a problem and this for the last 14 Years!

aahhhh well, don't understand the mourning, really - nobody does "unfair" things ...it's unfair not to follow the rules and blame the staff of some Consulate or the entire Immigration Police Force or even the countries Immigration Laws....

[tropo]

ohohoho behold!

A Tourist is considered a Tourist, a traveler, someone who comes on holidays, to relax off work, go sunbathing, swimming and is living in a Hotel/Guesthouse etc.

Guess that is why there are VoA and Tourist Visas issued, and fair enough for a lengthy time of 60 days if you go to apply for one and they will give you a second one that gives the applicant a wacking 120 days for a holiday!

Remember it is called a tourist visa because it is considered to be utilized by a Tourist, not for someone who wants to stay in this country, for those there are other, according to the law, a bit stricter options!

Then there are Non-Immi "O" for Other, as in being married, retired.... and there is "B" for people having a Job, running a company etc.

I have the latter, plus a WP and NEVER EVER had a problem and this for the last 14 Years!

aahhhh well, don't understand the mourning, really - nobody does "unfair" things ...it's unfair not to follow the rules and blame the staff of some Consulate or the entire Immigration Police Force or even the countries Immigration Laws....

ohohoho behold!

We always seem to get someone in every tourist visa thread coming in to explain to us what a tourist visa is for.

Thank you for doing the honors.

I have a question for you:

Why do you even read threads that don't concern you? Did you feel the need to brag about having NEVER EVER had a problem in the last 14 years?

Congratulations!

Considering you're the expert, what visa should an independantly wealthy person, or a person who has sufficient investment income who doesn't need to work, doesn't want marry, and who is under 50 get?

[mosan]

I'm not an expert but I think the answer is quite simple. If you're under 50 years of age and have no particular ties to the country, you get a tourist visa, spend your 30, 60 or whatever days in Thailand, have a good time, spend your money and then go home! If you want to marry a Thai, start a business/invest or secure a job, then you open up other avenues. That's it. There is no more. And, yes you are still at the mercy of the local officials if you are or appear to be a bit shady or are dodging the rules even unknowingly! Oh and one more thing...I believe it's better to appear in person. In Thailand appearances mean a lot (even though your inner demeanor may not be truly sincere).

Edited December 24, 2007 by MOSAN

[Beavis and Butthead]

Yet another newbie expert. He's the 3rd or 4th in this thread. Mr thinks he's the same guy as the other newbies and probably the other usual suspects spewing the same drivel

Edited December 24, 2007 by Beavis and Butthead

[tropo]

I'm not an expert but I think the answer is quite simple. If you're under 50 years of age and have no particular ties to the country, you get a tourist visa, spend your 30, 60 or whatever days in Thailand, have a good time, spend your money and then go home! If you want to marry a Thai, start a business/invest or secure a job, then you open up other avenues. That's it. There is no more. And, yes you are still at the mercy of the local officials if you are or appear to be a bit shady or are dodging the rules even unknowingly! Oh and one more thing...I believe it's better to appear in person. In Thailand appearances mean a lot (even though your inner demeanor may not be truly sincere).

Mr Newbie, I noticed a few guys covered in tattoos and wearing tank tops in the Jomtien Immigration office last week. The Immigration officers didn't seem bothered at all and the guys walked out with extensions just as I did with my collared shirt. Go figure. I'm actually starting to believe that one of Thailand's major draw cards is how relaxed Thais seem to be regarding others' personal appearance.

Oh and one more thing, I don't need anyone telling me when I should go home. I haven't been home for about 5 years now...not even for a visit.

Edited December 24, 2007 by tropo

[marginline]

ohohoho behold!

A Tourist is considered a Tourist, a traveler, someone who comes on holidays, to relax off work, go sunbathing, swimming and is living in a Hotel/Guesthouse etc.

Guess that is why there are VoA and Tourist Visas issued, and fair enough for a lengthy time of 60 days if you go to apply for one and they will give you a second one that gives the applicant a wacking 120 days for a holiday!

Remember it is called a tourist visa because it is considered to be utilized by a Tourist, not for someone who wants to stay in this country, for those there are other, according to the law, a bit stricter options!

Then there are Non-Immi "O" for Other, as in being married, retired.... and there is "B" for people having a Job, running a company etc.

I have the latter, plus a WP and NEVER EVER had a problem and this for the last 14 Years!

aahhhh well, don't understand the mourning, really - nobody does "unfair" things ...it's unfair not to follow the rules and blame the staff of some Consulate or the entire Immigration Police Force or even the countries Immigration Laws....

ohohoho behold!

We always seem to get someone in every tourist visa thread coming in to explain to us what a tourist visa is for.

Thank you for doing the honors.

I have a question for you:

Why do you even read threads that don't concern you? Did you feel the need to brag about having NEVER EVER had a problem in the last 14 years?

Congratulations!

Considering you're the expert, what visa should an independantly wealthy person, or a person who has sufficient investment income who doesn't need to work, doesn't want marry, and who is under 50 get?

Truly a great, GREAT response tropo.

I mean – I was absolutely aghast when I read what Samuian had written and agree wholeheartedly with what you Sir have written.

Samuian (you smarmy, pompous git you wise and knowledgeable sage) Merry Christmas to you! Ohohoho!

[bangkokgas]

Just to throw one out there: Having had many passports, many stamps and no questions, yet always filling in a "proper address" with a Thai guarantor, i.e. owner of my building (ex-general in army et al),may that have some bearing on the decision to issue a visa or not? I have no idea - do you guys?

[007]

Just to throw one out there: Having had many passports, many stamps and no questions, yet always filling in a "proper address" with a Thai guarantor, i.e. owner of my building (ex-general in army et al),may that have some bearing on the decision to issue a visa or not? I have no idea - do you guys?

Interesting question. I doubt it though, esp. as your landlord(?) probably wouldn't guarantee any expenses you owe for any reasons in LOS...

Visa policy at consulates, and to a lesser degree at embassies (correct me, if I'm wrong) seems to have more to do with new personnel there, directives from Bangkok, and whether the visa officer did get up on the wrong foot on that particular day.

Reading through the posts, and judging from personal experience, there are frequent clamp downs on perpetual (tourist) visa runners. While it is okay at times to have a passport full with Thailand visa stickers and stamps, at other times it is not...

Edited December 25, 2007 by 7

[crocodilexp]

If they want to crack down on long term pseudo-tourists, they have every right. I don't like it but they can do what they want. I reject any comparisons of Thailand immigration to immigration policies of first world countries, completely irrelevant to compare.

Well, if they want to kick every non-Thai citizen out for good, and seal the borders, they have every right as well, it's a sovereign country. You're a bit off the mark.

[dantilley]

what visa should an independantly wealthy person, or a person who has sufficient investment income who doesn't need to work, doesn't want marry, and who is under 50 get?

Err... Thailand Elite Card maybe?

[stevemiddie]

what visa should an independantly wealthy person, or a person who has sufficient investment income who doesn't need to work, doesn't want marry, and who is under 50 get?

Err... Thailand Elite Card maybe?

Good reply.

1 million baht is no problem for a wealthy person.

[mel2surf]

I'm in the same position (not wealthy,but some dough in bank) as my friend tropo.

It's frustrating when you like it here,and can support yourself without taking anyones job,indeed

help the local economy with our $ but are increasingly treated as if we're criminals or something.

Now it seems that for tourist visas,Loas is the final hope,and even that may be sketch. yea..yea..TIT

Happy Holidays

[tropo]

what visa should an independantly wealthy person, or a person who has sufficient investment income who doesn't need to work, doesn't want marry, and who is under 50 get?

Err... Thailand Elite Card maybe?

Good reply.

1 million baht is no problem for a wealthy person.

You two are full of useful information.

I'm talking about people who want to live in Thailand for a year or two, not forever.

How about helping out the readers with some info on how this "Thailand Elite Card" is obtained. This is a tourist visa thread, so most here would probably know nothing about it.

[stevemiddie]

what visa should an independantly wealthy person, or a person who has sufficient investment income who doesn't need to work, doesn't want marry, and who is under 50 get?

Err... Thailand Elite Card maybe?

Good reply.

1 million baht is no problem for a wealthy person.

You two are full of useful information.

This is true

I'm talking about people who want to live in Thailand for a year or two, not forever.

You never stated that in your original post. Therefore the info on the Thai Elite is a valid response.

How about helping out the readers with some info on how this "Thailand Elite Card" is obtained. This is a tourist visa thread, so most here would probably know nothing about it.

You raised the question as to what visa should a WEALTHY person obtain? You have been given your answer.

I can,t post the link but ANY google search will bring up the website.

Edited December 26, 2007 by stevemiddie

[surface]

Tropo, if you are actually wealthy, why not call one of the legal services advertised here TV and ask how you can stay here for a year or two. For a whopping $1,000 USD you can have a non imm B visa and a work permit good for 1 year with only an annual visa run involved.

[The Professor]

a non immigrant b for what? work permit for what? to the best of my knowledge tropo wants to stay here and not work. I doubt that he wants a scam non b nor an exhorbitantly priced elite card. oh and i see macwalen hanging around, I doubt tropo wants to commute from pattaya to bangkok to go to language school even though acc. to the advertisement, he can meet hot chicks there

Edited December 26, 2007 by The Professor