คำว่า นอ (ภาษาลาว)

[nakriian]

I think it is written as นอ ใน ภาษาไทย, not 100% sure about that though. It appears to be a question particle at the end of ลาว questions. Is anyone familiar with นอ from ภาษาลาว and is it similar to นะ in ภาษาไทย?

For example, if I typed คุณอยู่บ่นอ to mean "Are you there?", would คนไทย understand it?

คนไทย easily understand คุณอยู่ไหมครับ with no problem, but I am just curious if this variation would also be understood as it does contain some ภาษาลาว

[AjarnP]

I think it is written as นอ ใน ภาษาไทย, not 100% sure about that though. It appears to be a question particle at the end of ลาว questions. Is anyone familiar with นอ from ภาษาลาว and is it similar to นะ in ภาษาไทย?

For example, if I typed คุณอยู่บ่นอ to mean "Are you there?", would คนไทย understand it?

คนไทย easily understand คุณอยู่ไหมครับ with no problem, but I am just curious if this variation would also be understood as it does contain some ภาษาลาว

If it is Lao it is almost sure to be บอ Bor not นอ Nor and corresponds more to เปลา Plao roughly translated as 'or what' as in กินข้าวหรือเปลา 'have you eaten or what?'

[meadish_sweetball]

Both particles definitely do exist in Lao, although I have to admit that คุณอยู่บ่นอ sounds weird (what sounds weird is the combination of บ่ and นอ, in Thai I believe it would be ungrammatical to say คุณอยู่ไหมนะ - it would be either คุณอยู่นะ (request for confirmation: You're there, right?) or คุณอยู่ไหม (A straight yes-no question, i.e. Are you there?).

But I haven't studied Lao properly, just picked up bits and pieces, so my hunch could be wrong here.

By the way, เปล่า means 'empty', and in tag questions, takes on the meaning of 'not'. I think the closest idiomatic equivalent of 'or what' is หรืออย่างไร

[Virin]

if I typed คุณอยู่บ่นอ to mean "Are you there?", would คนไทย understand it?

Generally, I don't think Thai people understand "คุณอยู่บ่นอ" but some might be able to guess what you're saying, the word "บ่" is used in Isaan and Northern dialects.

It's appropriate to say "คุณอยู่นะ", "คุณอยู่ไหม" as meadish_sweetball suggested; "it would be either คุณอยู่นะ (request for confirmation: You're there, right?) or คุณอยู่ไหม (A straight yes-no question, i.e. Are you there?)."

[bannork]

I think it is written as นอ ใน ภาษาไทย, not 100% sure about that though. It appears to be a question particle at the end of ลาว questions. Is anyone familiar with นอ from ภาษาลาว and is it similar to นะ in ภาษาไทย?

For example, if I typed คุณอยู่บ่นอ to mean "Are you there?", would คนไทย understand it?

คนไทย easily understand คุณอยู่ไหมครับ with no problem, but I am just curious if this variation would also be understood as it does contain some ภาษาลาว

The negative and question particle in Issan is written as บ่ as in บ่ไป not going or ไปบ่ are you going? But in speech when Issan people ask a question, in my experience the tone is more like บ๊

I don't think you should mix บ่ with คุณ though, better to say เจ้าอยู่บี (or) บ่ are you there?

[nakriian]

ขอบคุณครับ

I apologize, but I was not clear with my question. I just put in that sentence just to let you know it comes at the end of a sentence. My question now is what exactly does it mean. I have spoken with a คนลาว and I was told it would be spelled นอ in ภาษาไทย (not บอ) (please disreguard my usage in my example sentence as it is probably wrong and it took away from what my actual question should have been).

I am aware what บ่ means (I was told it was Lao equivalent of ไหม).

Once again, so there is no confusion, please disreguard my example sentence as it was probably wrong. I am just wanting to know what means and also I would like some confirmation of my guestimated spelling of นอ. The คนลาว I spoke with said it is written in ลาว script and I agree. If you type Lao, then by all means, type it in Lao script. However, the คำลาว I have encountered so far, I have been able to find the thai equivalents. This one, however, has me stumped and I am just trying to figure it out.

Edited December 21, 2007 by nakriian

[mangkorn]

It means ไหม in question form; and ไม่ in a declarative sentence.

Example: บ่แมน = ไม่ใช่

As bannork says, it's usually pronounced บ๊ in interrogative; บ่ in declarative.

(Not to be confused with บ่อ - which is a pond or a well, in Thai.)

่

Edited December 21, 2007 by mangkorn

[nakriian]

ขอบคุณครับ คุณม้งกร แต่ผม am not asking about

I think what is confusing everyone is that actually looks like the consonant "บ" ในภาษาไทย.

has a beginning sound of บ.ใบใม้

has a beginning sound of น.หนู

Note: The Lao words you see above are posted as images because they are not thai script. I can type lao, as I have lao language support loaded on this machine. However, it will not display properly in this forum for everyone to view and this is why I have them displayed as images and not actual text.

Once again, so there is no confusion, is not บ่ or บ๊ or บ๊อ as it does not begin with a บ.ใบไม้ (they only look alike physically, they are not the same).

<= this is บ่ (or บ๊ or บ๊อ) you guys keep talking about. I know what this means and you have already defined that for me and I am grateful for that. My question is not about this though.

<= this is the word I want to know what means.

Edited December 21, 2007 by nakriian

[mangkorn]

Oops, my mistake. Never mind...

(But bannork is still correct, about that other thing...)

[mangkorn]

Well, the only thing I know for sure about - especially when written without that superscripted circle (which I assume is a tone marker), as in the Lao word for their national beer - is it may look at first glance like a ข in that font, which has led to the Thai/Lao phonetic double-entendre: เคยลาว

[nakriian]

คุณม้งกร Interesting note about the lao beer because I noticed that to. I would see it listed as เขยลาว and I would think that is odd. However, after I browsed over the อักษรลาว then I was like... oh, I see, they think the ลาว consonant is a "ข.ไข่" when it is actually a "บ.ใบไบ้"

เบยลาว <= is the correct spelling

เขยลาว <= this is the incorrect spelling that I see a lot

To the untrained eye, you wouldn't notice it or question it. It is only after a person has familiarized themself with the อักษรลาว that you realize there are consonants that look a like, but are not related.

[mangkorn]

I think it is more a matter of font style.

It can't be either เบยลาว or เขยลาว - because it's written in Lao, not in Thai.

(In Thai, neither version would make any sense.)

Sure tastes better than Thai beer, though...

Edited December 21, 2007 by mangkorn

[nakriian]

คุณมังกร I agree with you, it is a Lao word and any spelling using Thai script would be incorrect. I was only writing it that way just to demonstrate.

<= this is the true correct spelling

[Rikker]

Although nakriian's word would be transcribed into Thai as นอ, I believe the actual Thai equivalent is the fairly common word หนอ.

From RID:

หนอ [หฺนอ] อ. คําออกเสียงแสดงความรําพึง เช่น ชีวิตนี้ไม่เที่ยงหนอ น่าอนาถจริงหนอ.

หนอ. Interjection. A word uttered to show ponderment, e.g. "Life isn't fair, is it?", "Pitiful, isn't it?"

My translation of the example sentences may not be quite right. I have noticed that หนอ has two main meanings. (1) Its original meaning as given in RID, that of ponderment, and (2) a variant which seeks optional assent from the listener, or else softens a question as a way of avoiding demanding a direct answer. So it might be a literal rhetorical ponderment, mark something as a rhetorical question, or otherwise soften a statement.

To me, the Thai phrase คุุณอยู่บ้านไหมหนอ is perfectly grammatical, but it would be uttered, say, if I had come to visit an acquaintance and knocked on their door but no one answered, and I was pondering aloud to myself, perhaps as I glanced through the window to look inside. I can't speak for Lao, but I imagine it works the same with บ่นอ (or however you'd write it). The construction "ไหมหนอ" in Thai turns up more than half a million Google hits, so it's fair to say it's common.

From my experience, the second meaning tends to have a pronunciation more like น้อ or เนาะ (but without a glottal stop), I mentioned has also developed the spelling variant เนาะ. It can soften, say, a question, e.g. จริงไหมหนอ "is that really true?" (avoiding asking directly); or a suggestion, e.g. คุณกลับบ้านดีกว่าหนอ "you should probably go home, don't you think?".

Or take the statement ร้อนเนาะ, "It's hot out, no?" (the correspondence with this English usage of "no" is a coincidence, by the way).

This is all about Thai, but as I mentioned, it may be similar or the same in Lao.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Rikker

[nakriian]

Good answer คุณRikker. You put a lot of effort into that answer and I appreciate it.

[bannork]

There's a great Thai country song with the line ใครโทรมาหนอ, the young man is asking his intended who's phoning because he's given her the mobile phone but she's using it to contact another man. It definitely has a sense of unease, dissatisfaction or bewilderment.

Sorry for the year late reply but I'm trawling through old threads looking for stuff I've missed!