hammered Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs". I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know.. BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT) Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic?? thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly. In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short. Bulmerc, Please don't cut a long story short, please sir I beg of you tell us all of the vast right wing conspiracy in the U.S. in its entirity God knows that with all the tension brought on by the election in Thailand we could all use a good chuckle right about now. Now that you have made me aware that the supreme court is also involved in the vast right wing conspiracy, I really need to know the whole story so please regail us with your (Clintonesc) delusions Well considering that Mugabe got up and said that now the US could not lecture anyone on democracy after the Florida debacle i would care a little if i were an American who believed in democracy. Then again US elections are known world wide now for not being up to international standards like in places such as Venzuela as they dont have a paper trail to verify them. Interestingly the supreme court when making their decision that Bush had won because there really wasnt time to count the votes also decided to rather unusually make it quite clear their decision was not a precedent. We could also go into the well documented volusia county addition of a handful of votes that suddenly resulted in a 60-70K Gore lead turning into a Bush lead but no doubt u get the point.... Mmmm if i were an american i would be pretty concerned at this kinda stuff and would be trying to put my own house in order before lecturing others on their democracies. Hillary would be so proud of you hammered! I'll forward this on to her and perhaps she will have a present for your tree this season, lets see now where is that pre-K Nice to know you dont care about your own democracy and cannot refute critiicsims of it short of some generally mysoginistic comment. Anyway well off topic lets leave it there as the lack of one man one vote in US presidential and senatorial elections already conmdemns the system without considering that right wing elitists fixing the result ala Florida which nicley fits in with Thailand.Oh no wait a moment the Thai military seem to have allowed a free and fair vote that was verifiable by paper unlike in the US system. Im sure Hilary's right centrist agenda is closer to yours than mine tbh unless you are some kind of neo facist. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkman Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) It's amazing... I look up at the last page of posts and I see Darwin's Theory of evolution taking place before my eyes. Ahhhhh... the wonders of the internet eh? Now...can we finally get back to the possible results of the Thai election? Edited December 23, 2007 by yorkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 All the serious stuff has ended for the day - there is some discussion about how, even if Chart Thai and Puea Pandin go with the Democrats, the PPP can still form a coalition with all the other small parties. But I think that's mostly chasing the lack of other news... ... but hold on, Banharn is now on TV with Vatana Asavahame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 It's amazing...I look up at the last page of posts and I see Darwin's Theory of evolution taking place before my eyes. Ahhhhh... the wonders of the internet eh? Now...can we finally get back to the possible results of the Thai election? Well the lower house will have a larege pro-Thaksin minority (almost majority) and the upper house will be conservative and the judiciary will remain relatively aloof from it all. Meaning that little will get done imho. It looks like gridlock which is what the charter was designed for. There is an outside chance the PPP will failto fornm the government or will have to act as a minority government but the role of the upper house will stymie them anyway and they wont be able to influence the courts as they used to be able to. A period of unwinable conflict willresult from which hopefully calmer minds will prevail and some consensus start to emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasVic Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 The wider world really does not care about the uninformed equivalent of the bought off rice farmers voting in the USA for the Shrub Back to the subject? The Thai elections........ Here, here yorkie, I couldn't agree more. This forum should be discusing the Thai election results and return to power of Thaksin Shinawatra (by proxy only at this juncture). Be gone with those far left wing bitter American expats and U.S. haters that try and hijack theses thresds with their deluded fantasies about stolen elections! By the way kudos to the pro Thaksin forces for pulling off what looks like a resounding victory, also on a side note kudos to former PM Blair for converting to Catholicisim the other day and sticking it in the eye of the anglican church, perhaps there is still hope for merry ole england!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasabi Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I wish the Thai people peace and prosperity but can anyone surmise if there is likely to be any difference to the treatment of Farang's by either party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 ... and now confirmed that Chart Thai and Puea Pandin will act as one. This is the potential thorn that Samak was afraid of, but in fact this has also been discussed for weeks. Basically, no one made any firm commitment before the election - but as the numbers are now firming up it appears as if things will be more or less as expected. There is a strong possibility that we will not see a new government before the New Year - but who knows, maybe everything will be settled tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 All the serious stuff has ended for the day - there is some discussion about how, even if Chart Thai and Puea Pandin go with the Democrats, the PPP can still form a coalition with all the other small parties. But I think that's mostly chasing the lack of other news...... but hold on, Banharn is now on TV with Vatana Asavahame... This is going to go on for days without conclusion. Wait for people to start to state that PPP didnt get anywhere near half of the popular vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Further reports indicate that there will definitely be yellow and red cards handed out for this election, predicted to be as many as 25. Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana said to be likely to join with Puea Pandin and Chart Thai. As things stand, if all parties join with the Democrats, that would give them 256 seats, still quite weak - but the potential gain from winning by-elections which arise as a result of yellow and red cards would also likely favor the Democrats and possibly give them a reasonably strong coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungAndRice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 This is a very funny notion of democracy many of you advocate, fair democratic elections, unless our Party loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkman Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 The wider world really does not care about the uninformed equivalent of the bought off rice farmers voting in the USA for the Shrub Back to the subject? The Thai elections........ Here, here yorkie, I couldn't agree more. This forum should be discusing the Thai election results and return to power of Thaksin Shinawatra (by proxy only at this juncture). Be gone with those far left wing bitter American expats and U.S. haters that try and hijack theses thresds with their deluded fantasies about stolen elections! By the way kudos to the pro Thaksin forces for pulling off what looks like a resounding victory, also on a side note kudos to former PM Blair for converting to Catholicisim the other day and sticking it in the eye of the anglican church, perhaps there is still hope for merry ole england!!! Irrelevent to me too , although thanks for the tongue in cheek humour You could an honorary Brit yet. Hey, to be British you need a sense of humour or all is lost. Blair.... Blurr...... Still....start another thread about the Shrub. This is about the Thai results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinrada Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Thaksin ally wins Thai election Mr Samak said that Mr Thaksin had already congratulated him The party allied to Thailand's ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra has won the general election, initial results from the Election Commission show. Samak Sundaravej's People Power Party (PPP) won 228 seats in the 480-seat house, short of the 241 needed for an absolute majority. The election is the first since the 2006 coup that overthrew Mr Thaksin. Correspondents say the result is a big setback for the military, which has tried to curb Mr Thaksin's influence. Phone call The Election Commission said about 93% of votes had been counted and the situation would now not change greatly. The PPP's main rival, the Democrat Party, is set to win 166 seats and Chart Thai 39. Mr Samak, 72, claimed victory, saying: "I will be the next prime minister for sure." He added: "I invite all the parties to join our government." The leader of the PPP's main rival, the Democrats, Abhisit Vejjajiva, said the election had been a "close race". "If the PPP succeeds in forming a coalition, the Democrat Party is ready to become the opposition. If the PPP fails, then the Democrat Party is ready to form its own coalition," he said. Mr Samak said he had spoken to Mr Thaksin, who is in Hong Kong, by telephone. "Thaksin said 'congratulations'," Mr Samak said. The PPP leader added: "This is a victory for all Thai people who unreasonably lost their freedom on 19 September." That was the date in 2006 when the military removed Mr Thaksin and his Thai Rak Thai party from power. Mr Thaksin, who is now banned from Thai politics, has since lived in self-imposed exile abroad, mainly in Britain. However his allies have promised he would return and that the five-year political ban on him would be overturned. Mr Samak said on Sunday: "Thaksin said he will come back after the government is formed." If he does return to Thailand, Mr Thaksin will have to answer a number of corruption charges levelled against him in the courts. From Aunty .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaiyenjohn Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 As an American I am very happy that it looks like Samak is going to be the next PM of Thailand. Can you imagine Samak addressing the UN, ASEAN, receiving world leaders and dignitaries on behalf of the people of Thailand? Finally there's someone out there more embarrassing than our President! He'll manage to make George W Bush look like a statesman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legag Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 As an American I am very happy that it looks like Samak is going to be the next PM of Thailand.Can you imagine Samak addressing the UN, ASEAN, receiving world leaders and dignitaries on behalf of the people of Thailand? Finally there's someone out there more embarrassing than our President! He'll manage to make George W Bush look like a statesman! C'mon it could not be that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarka Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 hi.... yes it looks like even though ppp won the democrats might sneak past the post and be in power for a few months..... but.... anything is better than the illigal regime of the last 15 months...... there will surely be another election next year... the main thing now is that the military are out and that democracy rules.... peace and stability are what is needed now.... another coup would really ruin things for everyone... amarka Further reports indicate that there will definitely be yellow and red cards handed out for this election, predicted to be as many as 25.Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana said to be likely to join with Puea Pandin and Chart Thai. As things stand, if all parties join with the Democrats, that would give them 256 seats, still quite weak - but the potential gain from winning by-elections which arise as a result of yellow and red cards would also likely favor the Democrats and possibly give them a reasonably strong coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) Viva Abhisit This is a very funny notion of democracy many of you advocate, fair democratic elections, unless our Party loses. If the Democrats can form a coaltion with other parties that puts them over the top for Abhisit to legitimately be PM, what's so funny about it? the main thing now is that the military are out and that democracy rules.... That remains to be seen. Way too early to celebrate that. Edited December 23, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkman Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 ThaksinPhone call mainly in Britain. Ahem, so he is not on Visa runs to the border. Discuss why in your precious USA or UK democracy? Or back to the subject for those that live in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungAndRice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) If the other political parties join with the Democrats, it would not be legitimate imho. It would be a strong sign of people pulling stings behind a puppet government, but since we are Coup #15 in 75 years, I guess it would be totally standard. Regardless... Long Live The King Edited December 23, 2007 by YoungAndRice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) If the other political parties join with the Democrats, it would not be legitimate imho. That is absurd. It is perfectly legal in the Thai form of government. You are simply wrong. It could just as easily go the other way, with the minority parties joining with PPP, giving Samak the PM office. Neither the democrats OR PPP appear to have enough votes to do it without a coaltion. TOUGH COOKIES. There are going to lots of unhappy people whichever way it turns out. Edited December 23, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 If the other political parties join with the Democrats, it would not be legitimate imho. If the other political parties join with the PPP, it would be legitimate iyho? Each party will make its own decision as to whom it will join with. If you base the term "legitimate" upon no one pulling strings, then the whole election is a sham. And if the pulling of strings has already occurred, as you are apparently hinting at, why haven't they already announced their decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungAndRice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 If the other political parties join with the Democrats, it would not be legitimate imho. If the other political parties join with the PPP, it would be legitimate iyho? Each party will make its own decision as to whom it will join with. If you base the term "legitimate" upon no one pulling strings, then the whole election is a sham. And if the pulling of strings has already occurred, as you are apparently hinting at, why haven't they already announced their decision? Lots of unmarked bills and gold bars are being counted and gathered as we speak, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Lots of unmarked bills and gold bars are being counted and gathered as we speak, imho. Why is that? Pa Prem is the elder statesman of Thai politics. There is a 99% chance that press were camped out near his residence - yet not a single person has corroborated the claim made by the PPP. And he has also denied the rumors. It would've been much simpler for him to use the phone - just as it would have been much easier to use the phone for perhaps hundreds of other influential people wishing to record their opinions with any or all of the party leaders. There is no evidence that this has occurred, but I assure you that it is impossible for 100% of any such communications to be against the PPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Stop the bickering please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungAndRice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) What is the current time line for the EC review and for the minority Parties to pick their side? Edited December 23, 2007 by YoungAndRice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 What is the current time line for the EC review and for the minority Parties to pick their side? Review should occur over the next few days. Samak will have 30 days from the date the official results are announced to try and form a coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 hi....yes it looks like even though ppp won the democrats might sneak past the post and be in power for a few months..... but.... anything is better than the illigal regime of the last 15 months...... What difference does it make? The illegal regime is still in charge no matter who is elected and any government will merely be a facade until the next time the military decide it's time to change. An elected government should step in and sack all the military commanders and start from scratch...in fact they don't even need a military machine at all because it's spends most of it's time attacking elected governments anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipvice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 If the other political parties join with the Democrats, it would not be legitimate imho. That is absurd. It is perfectly legal in the Thai form of government. You are simply wrong. It could just as easily go the other way, with the minority parties joining with PPP, giving Samak the PM office. Neither the democrats OR PPP appear to have enough votes to do it without a coaltion. TOUGH COOKIES. There are going to lots of unhappy people whichever way it turns out. I agree, and it is always that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungAndRice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 it'd be easier to just go back to a Constitutional Monarchy, but I guess this pseudo-democratic provides them with more protection. This way they can stay 'uninvolved'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennkate Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Thialand is a small ship, and its been going round in circles for over a year, That way it wont get anywere. It dont mater who is steering as long as thay know were thay are going. Lets everbody hope it dont sink on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungAndRice Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 many countries have escaped that cycle, or at least improved upon it. so lets hope that it one day changes and lets try to move in the correct direction like standing behind the party with 228 seats not the party with 150 seats, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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