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george

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A very interesting thing I learned today, but apparently the 52 storey building that burned yesterday is owned by non other than Pojaman Shinawatra and the fire was nothing more than a good old fashion Thai style message to her. I need someone to verify this but I do trust my source.

Minor damage at Cyber World

A fire yesterday morning at Cyber World Tower on Ratchadaphisek Road is expected to slightly delay its opening but physical damage was marginal, according to the owners.

The damage and cause are currently being investigated by the Office of Police Forensic Science and civil engineers from the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), said an executive with T.C.C. Land Development Co, a subsidiary of T.C.C. Land controlled by tycoon Chadhroen Sirivadhanabhakdi.

source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/10Jan2008_bus18.php

My contact interfaces with the Hiso Thais on a daily basis. He also associates with some people who had a death in the family last week. He hears a lot of things that never hit the papers. I am only saying what he told me this morning. Your post says controlled by and not owned, so is he just the property manager?

Sounds more like facile farang bar talk to me but there are plenty of half witted hiso Thais around as well.Control means controlling shareholding.

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My contact interfaces with the Hiso Thais on a daily basis. He also associates with some people who had a death in the family last week. He hears a lot of things that never hit the papers. I am only saying what he told me this morning. Your post says controlled by and not owned, so is he just the property manager?

The article linked to above states that the building is owned by the Best Fortune Property & Loan Fund. A cursory search in Google seems to show that the fund is operated by ING.

The link I read about the building is that the plot is almost next to the one currently at the centre of Potjaman's court case.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=124969

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Yes like I said you need to verify the fact as I trust my source. One or two word changed in a sentence can say one thing but imply another.

As it is next to the property in question that she was just arrested for, it makes sense on expansion in the future.

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Yes like I said you need to verify the fact as I trust my source. One or two word changed in a sentence can say one thing but imply another.

As it is next to the property in question that she was just arrested for, it makes sense on expansion in the future.

Talk about digging yourself further in.Why don't you just admit you were too credulous?

Edited by younghusband
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My contact interfaces with the Hiso Thais on a daily basis. He also associates with some people who had a death in the family last week. He hears a lot of things that never hit the papers. I am only saying what he told me this morning. Your post says controlled by and not owned, so is he just the property manager?

The article linked to above states that the building is owned by the Best Fortune Property & Loan Fund. A cursory search in Google seems to show that the fund is operated by ING.

The link I read about the building is that the plot is almost next to the one currently at the centre of Potjaman's court case.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=124969

And certainly it is not unheard of for members of Thaksin’s family to place layers of deception that must be peeled away one at a time. It certainly looks like this may be one of them.

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Take your eyes off the thread for eighteen hours - wow!

Anyway - if this fire was in any way connected to the Shinawatra's, my call is that would be an inside job designed to create a "sympathy" vote rather than a warning from a political adversary.

How many times did death threats & bomb attempts materialise when Taxin needed a ploitical boost. Word amongst the Thai's is they were all planned by his wife - the smarter & more devious of the two.

Soundman.

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Maybe this is what Thailand needs - a one party state that directs economic growth and wealth creation in exchange for a social contract limiting freedom.

...

Its obvious the military and their technocrats can not - they have had a few goes at it now

Thailand had this system for many years, it just they also let politicial parties to play musical chairs and pretend that they somehow matter. Until Thaksin came in politicians didn't even try to meddle with policies set by technocrats.

That worked well for many many years, years when Thailand saw unprecented growth.

Thaksin represented big businesses that wanted to influence bureaucrat policymaking instead. For that they needed to be in the government, and for that they needed votes, and for that they needed to give something to the voters, for that they needed the "social contract".

It worked well for a while, until the rest of the population realised they were taken for a ride. Thaksin wasn't prepared to meet their demands, demands that he promised to address initially.

In the beginning his current opponents were very enthusiastic about his "think new act new" approach and his "I don't need the receits to punish corrupt ministers" promise. It didn't happen, on the contrary Thakins magnified all the faults his opponents wanted to be corrected. In the end he is seen as a self-serving prick They can't trust him with the country anymore.

People who had their demands met have a different view, of course.

While I acknowledge that Thailand did have extraordinary growth I do not think it was through one party direction from the peole you allude to.

Many other countries in Asia had ther same growth and Thailand was along for the ride - it was not due to any great directed policy I am afraid.

We now have another extraordinary period of growtrh in the region and Thailand post THaksin is not along for the ride - as Jagdish Bhagwati states, "In Defence of globalisation" any developing country with a GDP growth rate of less than 6% is a failure - Thailand was below that last year and I doubt they will exceed it by much until they get in a government that can implement a industrial and investment policy worthy of its name to stimulate growth and wealth creation.

If there are three strands to economic invenstment ie FDI. Domestic Captial and Govt Spending then Thailand really needs to get these going. People point to growing FDI but they look in isialtion - who is winng more of it among their competitors - one or two industries doing well like auto is not enough.

Govt spending to prime the pump and invest in infrastructure - stopped after Thaksin

Then the 3rd leg of the triad - domestic capital - I think the book edited by Baked et al clearly shows that domestic capital invstment has pretty much dried up outside protected spheres such as media and property.

The you have no less a person than Sen, Nobel Prize winner who would argue that democracy is better for economic growth than the unelected buffoons Thailand has had in power.

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My contact interfaces with the Hiso Thais on a daily basis. He also associates with some people who had a death in the family last week. He hears a lot of things that never hit the papers. I am only saying what he told me this morning. Your post says controlled by and not owned, so is he just the property manager?

The article linked to above states that the building is owned by the Best Fortune Property & Loan Fund. A cursory search in Google seems to show that the fund is operated by ING.

The link I read about the building is that the plot is almost next to the one currently at the centre of Potjaman's court case.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=124969

And certainly it is not unheard of for members of Thaksin’s family to place layers of deception that must be peeled away one at a time. It certainly looks like this may be one of them.

Surely a definitive example of putting two and two together to form a googol!

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If you want weird gossip, which may or may not be worth anything, here is one I heard last night from a an ex-TRT friend. Some of the PPP guys in one faction - it may be the Isaan faction although I am not sure how the factions go - are quite enjoying Yuths little problems as long as it only goes to red card as it will ensure more or more powerful cabinet seats for their faction if Yuth goes down without obviously bringing the whole house down with him. Dont know how reliable in all honesty but it sounds kind of beleivable in the byzantine world of Thai politics and would put yet another spin on the whole Yuth story.

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Maybe this is what Thailand needs - a one party state that directs economic growth and wealth creation in exchange for a social contract limiting freedom.

...

Its obvious the military and their technocrats can not - they have had a few goes at it now

Thailand had this system for many years, it just they also let politicial parties to play musical chairs and pretend that they somehow matter. Until Thaksin came in politicians didn't even try to meddle with policies set by technocrats.

That worked well for many many years, years when Thailand saw unprecented growth.

Thaksin represented big businesses that wanted to influence bureaucrat policymaking instead. For that they needed to be in the government, and for that they needed votes, and for that they needed to give something to the voters, for that they needed the "social contract".

It worked well for a while, until the rest of the population realised they were taken for a ride. Thaksin wasn't prepared to meet their demands, demands that he promised to address initially.

In the beginning his current opponents were very enthusiastic about his "think new act new" approach and his "I don't need the receits to punish corrupt ministers" promise. It didn't happen, on the contrary Thakins magnified all the faults his opponents wanted to be corrected. In the end he is seen as a self-serving prick They can't trust him with the country anymore.

People who had their demands met have a different view, of course.

While I acknowledge that Thailand did have extraordinary growth I do not think it was through one party direction from the peole you allude to.

Many other countries in Asia had ther same growth and Thailand was along for the ride - it was not due to any great directed policy I am afraid.

We now have another extraordinary period of growtrh in the region and Thailand post THaksin is not along for the ride - as Jagdish Bhagwati states, "In Defence of globalisation" any developing country with a GDP growth rate of less than 6% is a failure - Thailand was below that last year and I doubt they will exceed it by much until they get in a government that can implement a industrial and investment policy worthy of its name to stimulate growth and wealth creation.

If there are three strands to economic invenstment ie FDI. Domestic Captial and Govt Spending then Thailand really needs to get these going. People point to growing FDI but they look in isialtion - who is winng more of it among their competitors - one or two industries doing well like auto is not enough.

Govt spending to prime the pump and invest in infrastructure - stopped after Thaksin

Then the 3rd leg of the triad - domestic capital - I think the book edited by Baked et al clearly shows that domestic capital invstment has pretty much dried up outside protected spheres such as media and property.

The you have no less a person than Sen, Nobel Prize winner who would argue that democracy is better for economic growth than the unelected buffoons Thailand has had in power.

According to the Economist GDP growth for Thailand for the past few years:

2003 7.1%

2004 6.3%

2005 4.5%

2006 5.0%

2007 4.5%

Source: http://www.economist.com/countries/Thailan...mic%20Structure

From what is argued in your post Thailand has a few years of rapid catching up to do if it is to achieve and maintain the minimum 6.0%

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If you want weird gossip, which may or may not be worth anything, here is one I heard last night from a an ex-TRT friend. Some of the PPP guys in one faction - it may be the Isaan faction although I am not sure how the factions go - are quite enjoying Yuths little problems as long as it only goes to red card as it will ensure more or more powerful cabinet seats for their faction if Yuth goes down without obviously bringing the whole house down with him. Dont know how reliable in all honesty but it sounds kind of beleivable in the byzantine world of Thai politics and would put yet another spin on the whole Yuth story.

That is the problem when a group of politicians form an alliance of convenience, but no party idealogy other than "grab power & make as much money as you can".

Your more likely to cop it in the backside from one of your own than the opposition.

Som num na.

Soundman.

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A very interesting thing I learned today, but apparently the 52 storey building that burned yesterday is owned by non other than Pojaman Shinawatra and the fire was nothing more than a good old fashion Thai style message to her. I need someone to verify this but I do trust my source.

Minor damage at Cyber World

A fire yesterday morning at Cyber World Tower on Ratchadaphisek Road is expected to slightly delay its opening but physical damage was marginal, according to the owners.

The damage and cause are currently being investigated by the Office of Police Forensic Science and civil engineers from the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), said an executive with T.C.C. Land Development Co, a subsidiary of T.C.C. Land controlled by tycoon Chadhroen Sirivadhanabhakdi.

source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/10Jan2008_bus18.php

My contact interfaces with the Hiso Thais on a daily basis. He also associates with some people who had a death in the family last week. He hears a lot of things that never hit the papers. I am only saying what he told me this morning. Your post says controlled by and not owned, so is he just the property manager?

Sounds more like facile farang bar talk to me but there are plenty of half witted hiso Thais around as well.Control means controlling shareholding.

Maybe he wants to debate Hymers Transactional Theory of the Transnational firm and is an advocate of Cowling and Sugdens "Control" view?

Nah - I reckon you are correct and this is bar talk with reference to some un-named thai with high level contacts as the source!

Soi 4 dreamers - gotta luv em

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OK so let me make sure we are all on the same page.

From what I consider a reliable source the building in question is owned by Pojaman Shinawatra but not verified yet in the media.

The Shinawatra family is know for hiding assets under layers of deception and there is a government agency working full time to find them. This building may be one of them.

The building is next to the property in question that Pojaman Shinawatra was just arrested for. That can conceivably add support to the claim she owns the building and would be looking to expand in the future.

It is highly likely the fire was a Thai style message.

Other than that the rest is for speculation.

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If you want weird gossip, which may or may not be worth anything, here is one I heard last night from a an ex-TRT friend. Some of the PPP guys in one faction - it may be the Isaan faction although I am not sure how the factions go - are quite enjoying Yuths little problems as long as it only goes to red card as it will ensure more or more powerful cabinet seats for their faction if Yuth goes down without obviously bringing the whole house down with him. Dont know how reliable in all honesty but it sounds kind of beleivable in the byzantine world of Thai politics and would put yet another spin on the whole Yuth story.

Is he working for the BP? :o

Keep a lid on it

As the PPP continues its struggle to position itself at the head of a new coalition government, the internal politics playing out within the party have become increasingly obvious. As the party with the most House seats from the December general election, the PPP has the opportunity to exert its political leverage to form a coalition government. But as far as internal politics within the party itself is concerned, each clique's negotiating power is reportedly based on its leader's level of contact with deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Inside the PPP, core members with direct access by phone to Thaksin are the former PM's close aides in the dissolved TRT party including PPP secretary-general Surapong Suebwonglee and other high-profile names such as Newin Chidchob, Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Sudarat Keyuraphan as well as her strong ally, Chalerm Yubamrung. As PPP's attempt to form a coalition government shows signs of bearing fruit, each clique in the PPP is also jockeying for as many ''A-list'' cabinet posts that they can get. With almost 100 PPP MPs from the Northeast under their wings, Surapong and Newin, who have forged an alliance between them, seem to have the upper hand over other factions.

Based on the calculation of one cabinet post per nine MPs, PPP's northeastern factions are likely to walk away with up to 10 cabinet seats. More importantly, both Surapong and Newin are close to Thaksin and PPP leader Samak. However, Yongyuth, the party's first deputy leader, also commands a sizeable political support base in the North, which could also see him claiming large slices of the cabinet pie. Yongyuth is also well-connected to Thaksin. The Surapong-Newin and the Yongyuth cliques are cautiously keeping an eye on each other.

Lengthy article continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/10Jan2008_news21.php

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OK so let me make sure we are all on the same page.

From what I consider a reliable source the building in question is owned by Pojaman Shinawatra but not verified yet in the media.

The Shinawatra family is know for hiding assets under layers of deception and there is a government agency working full time to find them. This building may be one of them.

The building is next to the property in question that Pojaman Shinawatra was just arrested for. That can conceivably add support to the claim she owns the building and would be looking to expand in the future.

It is highly likely the fire was a Thai style message.

Other than that the rest is for speculation.

Its you who is on a different page.

I think everyone else know's who the two companies are involved in the joint venture. Captialand is listed in the Singapore stock exchange - maybe you should go to them and raise a stink ifyou have knowledge of nefarious dealings.

It also is in a JV with the CPB - maybe you think they are all in it together?

Is this the talk in soi 4?

Paranoid conspiracy theories made without souces should be treated as such. Hiding behind "My source" or I knowe someone who said is absolute trash an often the sign of a dreamer.

Edited by Prakanong
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If you want weird gossip, which may or may not be worth anything, here is one I heard last night from a an ex-TRT friend. Some of the PPP guys in one faction - it may be the Isaan faction although I am not sure how the factions go - are quite enjoying Yuths little problems as long as it only goes to red card as it will ensure more or more powerful cabinet seats for their faction if Yuth goes down without obviously bringing the whole house down with him. Dont know how reliable in all honesty but it sounds kind of beleivable in the byzantine world of Thai politics and would put yet another spin on the whole Yuth story.

Is he working for the BP? :o

Keep a lid on it

As the PPP continues its struggle to position itself at the head of a new coalition government, the internal politics playing out within the party have become increasingly obvious. As the party with the most House seats from the December general election, the PPP has the opportunity to exert its political leverage to form a coalition government. But as far as internal politics within the party itself is concerned, each clique's negotiating power is reportedly based on its leader's level of contact with deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Inside the PPP, core members with direct access by phone to Thaksin are the former PM's close aides in the dissolved TRT party including PPP secretary-general Surapong Suebwonglee and other high-profile names such as Newin Chidchob, Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Sudarat Keyuraphan as well as her strong ally, Chalerm Yubamrung. As PPP's attempt to form a coalition government shows signs of bearing fruit, each clique in the PPP is also jockeying for as many ''A-list'' cabinet posts that they can get. With almost 100 PPP MPs from the Northeast under their wings, Surapong and Newin, who have forged an alliance between them, seem to have the upper hand over other factions.

Based on the calculation of one cabinet post per nine MPs, PPP's northeastern factions are likely to walk away with up to 10 cabinet seats. More importantly, both Surapong and Newin are close to Thaksin and PPP leader Samak. However, Yongyuth, the party's first deputy leader, also commands a sizeable political support base in the North, which could also see him claiming large slices of the cabinet pie. Yongyuth is also well-connected to Thaksin. The Surapong-Newin and the Yongyuth cliques are cautiously keeping an eye on each other.

Lengthy article continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/10Jan2008_news21.php

No he doesnt work for them although this story would seem to back up the factional positioning for cabinet seats although it doesnt go into the details of internal politcs with regard to Yuths red card position. As with all gossip though it could be dodgy, could be people playing their own games or whatever. Interesting but without actually being the fly on the wall impossible to be sure of.

Edited by hammered
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OK so let me make sure we are all on the same page.

From what I consider a reliable source the building in question is owned by Pojaman Shinawatra but not verified yet in the media.

The Shinawatra family is know for hiding assets under layers of deception and there is a government agency working full time to find them. This building may be one of them.

The building is next to the property in question that Pojaman Shinawatra was just arrested for. That can conceivably add support to the claim she owns the building and would be looking to expand in the future.

It is highly likely the fire was a Thai style message.

Other than that the rest is for speculation.

Before you get carried away with your own speculation, I just spoke with someone at TCC Land.

They own the building.

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OK so let me make sure we are all on the same page.

From what I consider a reliable source the building in question is owned by Pojaman Shinawatra but not verified yet in the media.

The Shinawatra family is know for hiding assets under layers of deception and there is a government agency working full time to find them. This building may be one of them.

The building is next to the property in question that Pojaman Shinawatra was just arrested for. That can conceivably add support to the claim she owns the building and would be looking to expand in the future.

It is highly likely the fire was a Thai style message.

Other than that the rest is for speculation.

What is not for speculation is your need to acquire some broader knowledge so that your posts can be taken seriously.It's a relatively minor matter but your ever more absurd responses would make a cat laugh.

Edited by younghusband
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1. disband PPP and put democrate into power, if the poor people of northeast start to cause trouble send in the military, they will back down, these people only work for money, if there is no cash they will just move along, actually they will sell their children education for a few hundred baht anyway.

2. PPP get into power, causing havic, meddling into other affair, more corruption into play, best of all RESHUFFLE THE MILITARY, is their biggest agenda, they will get rid of thing that they affraid most.

Imagine the new general he just got his hand on a top spot just a few month back, working your decade of year to achive that moment, and now some one try to take it away from him, wow! how's that feel.....smell another coup coming, back to square one.

Edited by CL0R0X
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OK so let me make sure we are all on the same page.

From what I consider a reliable source the building in question is owned by Pojaman Shinawatra but not verified yet in the media.

Not only has the media not verified your friend's information, it has actually verified that the building is owned by somebody else.

The Shinawatra family is know for hiding assets under layers of deception and there is a government agency working full time to find them. This building may be one of them.

I agree partly with your first sentence here. The second is, again, pure speculation based on hearsay.

The building is next to the property in question that Pojaman Shinawatra was just arrested for. That can conceivably add support to the claim she owns the building and would be looking to expand in the future.

No. Had you read my post and/or the link provided, you would have seen that the building is almost next door to the Potjaman plot.

It is highly likely the fire was a Thai style message.

Can you provide any evidence to support the statement? So far, nothing has been said to imply that the incident in question was arson, let alone arson to give somebody a message.

Other than that the rest is for speculation.

No. Almost your entire post is speculation.

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I guess it depends on who you talk to. I recommend giving this a few days and when a few investigative journalists read this thread and they start asking questions, it make shake loose a few apples from the tree.

Edited by John K
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1. disband PPP and put democrate into power, if the poor people of northeast start to cause trouble send in the military, they will back down, these people only work for money, if there is no cash they will just move along, actually they will sell their children education for a few hundred baht anyway.

2. PPP get into power, causing havic, meddling into other affair, more corruption into play, best of all RESHUFFLE THE MILITARY, is their biggest agenda, they will get rid of thing that they affraid most.

Imagine the new general he just got his hand on a top spot just a few month back, working your decade of year to achive that moment, and now some one try to take it away from him, wow! how's that feel.....smell another coup coming, back to square one.

My guess is that the military and their supporters do not have enough support this time for another coup, and also dont have enough support for another disolution. The incredibly poor government installed by the coupists has probably lost them masses of support alone.

Mind you that is not say they wont do it although it would be a very desperate act.

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I guess it depends on who you talk to. I recommend giving this a few days and when a few investigative journalists read this thread and they start asking questions, it make shake loose a few apples from the tree.

No it doesn't.You have made made a silly mistake and refuse to retract.You hope that by "giving this a few days" the matter will be forgotten, and in that you are probably right.It's incidentally a typically comic touch that you think investigative journalists are monitoring Thai Visa for their stories.

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I guess it depends on who you talk to. I recommend giving this a few days and when a few investigative journalists read this thread and they start asking questions, it make shake loose a few apples from the tree.

Well not really.

TCC Land is a joint venture between TCC Group (K.Charoen) and Capital Land of Singapore. Capital Land is about the largest property company in Asia and is listed on the Singapore stock exchange. The idea that they would use their company as a secret nominee for Poljamarn's assets is quite simply ludicrous. (The idea that K.Charoen would do the same seems pretty far fetched.)

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I guess it depends on who you talk to. I recommend giving this a few days and when a few investigative journalists read this thread and they start asking questions, it make shake loose a few apples from the tree.

Well not really.

TCC Land is a joint venture between TCC Group (K.Charoen) and Capital Land of Singapore. Capital Land is about the largest property company in Asia and is listed on the Singapore stock exchange. The idea that they would use their company as a secret nominee for Poljamarn's assets is quite simply ludicrous. (The idea that K.Charoen would do the same seems pretty far fetched.)

Not unconceivable though, property company has to remain under "Thai" control & K. Charoen was / is one of Taxin's biggest supporters & financial contributors.

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While I acknowledge that Thailand did have extraordinary growth I do not think it was through one party direction from the peole you allude to.

Many other countries in Asia had ther same growth and Thailand was along for the ride - it was not due to any great directed policy I am afraid.

And many countries didn't grow at all, at the same time. Sure Thailand wasn't inveting fast growth, but all the right ingridients for FDI driven, export oriented economy needed to be put in place, and it wasn't politicians who set all the important policies in place - it was bureaucrats.

For various reasons they can't repeat the same success now, but I don't see politicians doing any better either. Thailand's growth slowed down with Thaksin still firmly in charge, even he couldn't do anything about it.

We now have another extraordinary period of growtrh in the region and Thailand post THaksin is not along for the ride

As I said, economy lost its moment long before the coup, and since then Thais have been busy sorting out Thaksin's personal problems. They just don't have the will or manpower to deal with the country's problems, everything is about Thaksin this, Thaksin that.

Govt spending to prime the pump and invest in infrastructure - stopped after Thaksin

He didn't invest anything in infrastructure, he only promised a lot and missed his own deadlines. His "Thailand for sale" campaign wasn't going to work anyway. Surayud's government kept on ploughing and got to the stage of accepting bids for one of the lines, pity no one applied. My first thought - who is going to commit to anything big in the current political climate?

The you have no less a person than Sen, Nobel Prize winner who would argue that democracy is better for economic growth than the unelected buffoons Thailand has had in power.

He WAS arguing that a decade ago. Now people argue that democracy actually hinders growth in India, as someone mentioned. And then there's one billion Chinese who can't be wrong, or Vietnamese.

It was a tough decade for democracy to prove itself, we don't know how things will turn out in China or Vietnam in the long term.

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Nopadon has learnt from the master pretty well.

From today's Bkk Post.

Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra returned to Thailand to fight corruption charges, not to engage in politics, family legal adviser Noppadon Pattama says.

Mr Noppadon, who is deputy secretary-general of the People Power party (PPP), said the wife of ousted prime minister Thaksin has no authority in the party. Only party leader Samak Sundaravej and party executives would have a say in the cabinet line-up.

His comments came after speculation that Khunying Potjaman had a political agenda in her return, playing a role in screening cabinet ministers as the PPP tries to form a coalition government after winning the Dec 23 election.

Mr Noppadon, who failed in the party-list contest, insisted that Khunying Potjaman was coming back to defend herself against graft allegations and to pay her respects to Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana.

He also voiced concerns over the Assets Scrutiny Committee's (ASC) investigations following a meeting between ASC members and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont yesterday.

Soundman.

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