simon43 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Prior to speaking to a lawyer, perhaps TV members can advise me. Short story - When I came to Thailand about 5 years ago I/my ex GF purchased some land. We found this land via a farang sales agent who I immediately took a dislike to. He was arrogant, rude and above all a bully. Nevertheless, I purchased said land for 2.8 million baht. Unfortunately, just before the deal was completed, the Thai owner of the land died!! This left the sale completion in limbo for a long, long time. During this period (of several years), I found out that the farang sales agent had been working in cahoots with the Thai man who died. They would purchase land at very cheap prices and then resell it at about 200-300% profit. Good business if you can get it... I also discovered that the death of this man had left the sales agent with a whole lot of other unfinished business whereby the Thai guy owed him money, (probably quite a lot of money). Suffice to say, the family of the guy who died were not very interested in completing the sale documents and stalled for several years. Finally, through a good and important Thai friend, I was making some progress in persuading them to complete the documents. But - I was quite prepared to accept that this deal might never complete and I was prepared to walk away from the 2.8 million baht, if it were more trouble/expense to complete the deal. Now, the farang sales agent is pestering (bullying is a better word), for me and my wife to work with him to sue the family of the dead man. We prefer the 'Thai' approach and some money under the table and refuse to work with the farang agent. Now he has turned 'nasty' and has started threatening us with all sorts of problems if we do not 'play ball' with him. Since he does not know my email/contact details, he has taken the cowardly approach of threatening my wife by email and shouting at her by phone-calls to her. I am not concerned about this man if he shouts at me. But I am very, very angry about him threatening my wife. As some of you will know from previous postings, my wife is 'delicate' in both body and mind. She is now quite stable, our marriage is strong and we have a growing business. I do not want this bully damaging my wife's health. Is there any legal action that I can take to 'nip this problem in the bud' and to ensure that he is forbidden from making any sort of contact with me or my wife? We have copies of the emails he has sent to her and witnesses who will support our version of events. Thanks for any advice Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 why doesnt yr wife hang up on hum when she calls. ps. why do many guys describe their wives in unflattering terms. i pray yr wife remains stable, wotever that means......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 ps. why do many guys describe their wives in unflattering terms. i pray yr wife remains stable, wotever that means......... If you had followed his situational topic on this issue you would know what he means. It would seem the best thing is to contact a lawyer to spell out your options for you. I'm not sure of the legalities of recording phone calls, perhaps others will know. But if legal, more ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm-happy Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 If I were in your position, i would not hesitate to seek out an attorney, explain the situation ask for legal remedies. The attorney way even find a way of reversing the situation so that YOU wind up legally bullying the bully. Maybe your bully doesn't even have work permit. That would be sweet woun't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Hello Simon -- In USA it would be called a 'restraining order'. That would be a good starting point when you speak to a Thai attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 OOPS -- didn't see the sub-heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkman Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Is your wife Thai Simon? This might get laughed down, but you could start with her (alone preferably) making a complaint to the police. At least it's free before you start paying a lawyer. Farang threatens thai woman? Hmm, they might take a dim of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Simon -- A 'restraining order' is a Civil action. The relevant sections of Thai Civil Code are under 'Wrongful Acts': Section 420. A person who, willfully or negligently, unlawfully injures the life, body, health, liberty, property or any right of another person, is said to commit a wrongful act and is bound to make compensation therefore. Section 421. The exercise of a right which can only have the purpose of causing injury to another person is unlawful. As you are mainly concerned here as to the rights of your wife which are being threatened by this harassment, you should discuss with a Thai attorney the possibility of civil action against your former agent. That in itself may be sufficient to have the person back-off... and it may also be a good basis to 'engage' the Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetBackJoJo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Simon - i dont want to sound like the hero or anything, but cant you bully the guy back? I guess its a subjective, personal thing.... but if this <deleted> even so much as raised is voice at me, i would go mental at him. If he shouted at my Thai wife, especialy considering the sstuff she has been through with the drugs and what have you, i would be down his office ready to 'have a word with him' in the car park. If you are not so 'physicaly capable', at least stand up to the guy on the phone? Phone HIM up, and shout at HIM! Do it every day. Bully him back. It will do his head in if you phone him three times a day for a week, spouting crap back at him. I dont want to offend you, and forgive me if this is rude.... but cant you be more of a man about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 his wife is easily unstabilized yorkman, not a good idea. best to walk and take yr lumps is best advice. you paddling up the creek with no paddle sir. since you overpaid you actually only losing 1/3 or your 2.8 million baht. 2/3 of yr money is lost anyway even if deal is cumpleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Some helpful advice here - thanks. It certainly might be worthwhile for my Thai wife to speak with a lawyer about this matter. By the way, he has no WP... I'd be very happy to see him deported Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I would also add that he is threatening your livelihood. The reason that your wife or at least SOMEBODY must answer the telephone is that you are running a business. So there is potential economic damage at stake should the gent's behavior continue unabated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 not rocket science sir. just tell him you know he doesnt have a work permit. no lawyer needed yet! if that dont scare him a note from a lawyer surely wont. you may need to be more of a (what jojo said). you guys surely r entertaining to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyreallrubbish Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Some helpful advice here - thanks. It certainly might be worthwhile for my Thai wife to speak with a lawyer about this matter.By the way, he has no WP... I'd be very happy to see him deported Simon Presuming your side of the story is 100% correct, then I hope to God you do get him deported. I hate people like that in any country and especially don't need them in Thailand. The lack of work permit is his vulnerability. Do you have any documents with his signature on showing that he was working in Thailand? Maybe get a friend to go pose as a buyer and record it to have evidence that he's working. Then call him up and say you'll send the evidence to the immigration department and police if he ever calls again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 As Kuhn Simon says the gent has been operating in Thailand for over 5 years, odds are both he and his immigration status are well known... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacemanSpliff Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I think the first mistake was made when getting involved with ANY Farang in some business deal, especially one involving land which he couldn't legally own anyway, so then any purchase of land would not have anything to do with him anyway. I also don't understand why this 2.8 would end up in limbo; surely you didn't transfer it to HIM (the Farang) who simply cannot sell you land. It's the equivalent of him trying to sell you Prapinkklao Bridge, another thing he doesn't own. So ayway, not knowing the details it's hard to give exact advice, but sooner or later people of his ilk tend to fall off condominiums.. So you might just as well wait for that to happen. in teh mean time, I agree with your preferred course of action: Any completion of the sale depeds on the Thai owner's cooperation.. The Farang guy is just an annoying mosquito. And... keeping in mind that Thailand is basically an anarchy, not a stable place where you'd preferably be buying ANYTHING (hint, hint, to anyone reading this), think what the most common way is to deal with mosquitos and work from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Khun Simon's query was what legal advice might there be to protect his wife from further harassment. He did not ask as to how to handle his real estate transactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie66 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 What ever you decide to do the first thing you need to get is proof or your situation. I don’t care what the laws are you need to backup this claim of his “threats” before the situation goes south. Get these conversations recorded without his knowledge. Act more cowardly than you already are so he does not think you are recording what he says. If the conversations and email are as you say they are and he is threatening physical violence to a Thai citizen. It seems to me that the immigration ministry would love to set him right. Right on a plane. If the treats are not violent then no one is going to care but only call you a coward when you leave their office. If it is actually possible for you to grow a pair of balls you could handle it like a man and give him what he deserves. A good whipping! No man would ever address my wife without talking to me first. I personally would take a couple of punches as long as I got one good one in. Even if he one the fight he would thing twice about contacting your wife if you walked up to him and punched him in the mouth without saying a thing. Tell him to come on over so he is on your property. Then you can make up any story you want. Give him a feeling that you stalked him and you would never have to worry again. The Thai police are not going to arrest you if you tell them he was threatening your wife especially if you had proof and no one would help you. Don’t make a big scene and don’t say anything to him. Just hit him in the mouth without saying a word then everything is understood between you and him. Your wife might respect you a little more. She might act frightened but don’t tell her what you are going to do. You need to separate your business / a man’s business, from family business/ her business. As it is now, she is thinking you have no spine and cannot protect her. Your wife is Asian but you have learned nothing about how they expect YOU to handle confrontation. This is your job and if you don’t handle this your marriage will never be the same. This happened to me and my first Asian wife. A long series of confrontations between me and my drunken alcoholic older brother put me in a similar situation. Although he never addressed my wife, I let him punk me out in front of her. She never showed me any respect again and started sleeping with other men shortly after. If you don’t handle this it will haunt you for the rest of your life and keep manifesting into other situations like a ghost. You are asking us what to do but you already know. Don’t make the same mistake I did. If he is twice your size get a stick. Reach down and grab hold of what is left or let your wife wear the pants and don’t be surprised if she wants to slap you around a little bit. The second a woman no longer feels safe with her man it’s over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 I would have no qualms about hitting the guy except that he is at least 65 years old - I'm afraid that he might drop dead on me.... In any case, hitting him would not really help a legal case against him. I had a confrontation with him about this matter earlier this year and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He just seems so stupid not to have backed off. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulmercke Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Seek legal advice. Freshfields on Sathorn - Bangkok - which has farang partners - would be a good bet. Once you've outlined the case to them and they have all the details then they can advise you as to what is the best option and whether criminal or civil action needs to be taken - they will advise you on that too. The legal process has started and hopefully due process will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 You should just lay him out on the floor if everything fails, threatning my wife would lead to a serious beating. I hope you solve this and hope you get rid of this bloke somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technocracy Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) As you say you want to do things the Thai way the solution is simple - pay a few goons to pay him a visit with their preferred inanimate objects of choice and let them do the beating! Keeps your nose clean and he'll disappear for a while and get patched . . . Alternatively just tell him you know he's working without a WP and will speak to the police and the immigration department to arrange for him to be deported. Collect all the abuse evidence also. Personally I'd just threaten to break a chair over his head . . . . Edited December 23, 2007 by technocracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 If it is just phone calls and emails why not just block/delete his emails and block/hang up his phone calls? Bit of a no brainer, or did i miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaicoon Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Send the boys around to sort him out, put the frighteners on him. he sounds like a pussy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cali4995 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Is your wife Thai Simon? This might get laughed down, but you could start with her (alone preferably) making a complaint to the police. At least it's free before you start paying a lawyer.Farang threatens thai woman? Hmm, they might take a dim of that I agree with Yorkman. A farang threatening a Thai national? female no less? Probably all it would take was a quick complaint at the Police station. I bet those guys would love to jump on that. Tourist police might even be more interested in putting him back in his place. That's what they do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetBackJoJo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) Some helpful advice here - thanks. It certainly might be worthwhile for my Thai wife to speak with a lawyer about this matter.By the way, he has no WP... I'd be very happy to see him deported Simon Presuming your side of the story is 100% correct, then I hope to God you do get him deported. I hate people like that in any country and especially don't need them in Thailand. The lack of work permit is his vulnerability. Do you have any documents with his signature on showing that he was working in Thailand? Maybe get a friend to go pose as a buyer and record it to have evidence that he's working. Then call him up and say you'll send the evidence to the immigration department and police if he ever calls again. In my humble opinion, this is too creepy and snidey. If simons life/income/lifestyle/fammily was in immediate danger against a pack of hounds (or maybe a Thai guy, rouge copper, mafia dude) then yes, maybe i would go down the more thought out road of setting the guy up with legal problems and or, going to the police. But lets be clear; this is just a ferang guy 'giving it large' and trying to 'put it on' simon. I wouldnt hide behind a lawyer, or police, or sinister friends setting him up, over a matter which (i believe) should be dealt with by you, as a man. Thais marry into us Ferangs accepting our coultural differences however, there is one thing that they do expect from us; to have some balls and protect our fammily. To a degree. They do not expect you to walk into a gunfight at The Ok Coral but they do expect that you stand up for your fammily. And so you should. This is just a muppet scumbag wealer dealer who is giving it large. Front the guy out, put it back on him. Turn up at his office with a few pissed up pals if you need to... nothing cowardly about that; thats just showing you are willing to mess the guy up if he farks with you. Clearly you have doubts about sorting this yourself, so maybe you should turn up with a few pals. You can walk into his office, make it clear you are now wound up, and your buddies can just kinda hang around, 'looking menacing'. You realy should sort this yourself though. be a man. Go alone and see him, pin him against the wall and tel him that if he ever phones your wife again, you will bite his nose off. I sware - deep down sware - thats what i would do. And no, im not a keyboard warrior. What ever you decide to do the first thing you need to get is proof or your situation. I don't care what the laws are you need to backup this claim of his "threats" before the situation goes south. Get these conversations recorded without his knowledge. Act more cowardly than you already are so he does not think you are recording what he says. If the conversations and email are as you say they are and he is threatening physical violence to a Thai citizen. It seems to me that the immigration ministry would love to set him right. Right on a plane. If the treats are not violent then no one is going to care but only call you a coward when you leave their office. If it is actually possible for you to grow a pair of balls you could handle it like a man and give him what he deserves. A good whipping! No man would ever address my wife without talking to me first. I personally would take a couple of punches as long as I got one good one in. Even if he one the fight he would thing twice about contacting your wife if you walked up to him and punched him in the mouth without saying a thing. Tell him to come on over so he is on your property. Then you can make up any story you want. Give him a feeling that you stalked him and you would never have to worry again. The Thai police are not going to arrest you if you tell them he was threatening your wife especially if you had proof and no one would help you. Don't make a big scene and don't say anything to him. Just hit him in the mouth without saying a word then everything is understood between you and him. Your wife might respect you a little more. She might act frightened but don't tell her what you are going to do. You need to separate your business / a man's business, from family business/ her business. As it is now, she is thinking you have no spine and cannot protect her. Your wife is Asian but you have learned nothing about how they expect YOU to handle confrontation. This is your job and if you don't handle this your marriage will never be the same. This happened to me and my first Asian wife. A long series of confrontations between me and my drunken alcoholic older brother put me in a similar situation. Although he never addressed my wife, I let him punk me out in front of her. She never showed me any respect again and started sleeping with other men shortly after. If you don't handle this it will haunt you for the rest of your life and keep manifesting into other situations like a ghost. You are asking us what to do but you already know. Don't make the same mistake I did. If he is twice your size get a stick. Reach down and grab hold of what is left or let your wife wear the pants and don't be surprised if she wants to slap you around a little bit. The second a woman no longer feels safe with her man it's over. Sound advice. I couldnt have said it better myself. I would have no qualms about hitting the guy except that he is at least 65 years old - I'm afraid that he might drop dead on me.... In any case, hitting him would not really help a legal case against him. I had a confrontation with him about this matter earlier this year and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He just seems so stupid not to have backed off.Simon Thats no excuse. Whats wrong with you? I dont care if he is 65. 65 isnt so old that the guy cant walk without a zimmer! Regardless, i couldnt care how old he is. He could be 80 years old but if he messed with my fammily, i would kick the hel_l out of the guy. If he has a heart attack, it serves him right. Shouldnt have messed with a guy willing to protect his fammily. Willing to protect his recovering wife who has been through a horrible time and is just barley getting back on track. Edited December 23, 2007 by GetBackJoJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamianMavis Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Hes 65 years old? Man that's perfect! I bet even you could take him, but just in case here's some pointers: First wait for him and hide behind something when you know hes walking by, then jump out screaming as loud as you can and hit him in the knee with a large heavy stick or metal rod (just to be safe, you have to fell a bully like this as quickly as possible to get the upperhand). If he didn't have a heart attack from the shock of your beastly battle cry then hopefully he will fall and break his hip, add the smashed kneecap and you're on your way to victory! While he's struggling to get up (this elderly bully sounds like a mean tough sob and likely to not give up easily) stomp on his fingers to ensure he cannot use his hands should he regain his footing and savagely attack you with a myriad of lightning quick precise hand strikes. Once that is done, to really make sure you have defeated your adversary, run to your car and run him over a few times, that final blow should take the fight right out of him. Sorry for being so sarcastic, I just think the idea of an old man trying to bully my woman (or me) and me not knowing what to do about it is so ridiculous I just had to be a little ridiculous too. Damian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 This guy does not seem to be unsophisticated. He has operated quite visibly since before Simon moved to Thailand so at least 5 years with impunity. He may have cosiderable resources and contacts and may already be a friend and benefactor of the same BiB some of you suggest that Kuhn Simon send 'round to clean his clock. He may then be in a position to file criminal charges against the OP. Bulmercke has some sense... someone local may be a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him.... Once a bully realises he cant bully you then he has lost his edge....usually they wimp out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetBackJoJo Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I couldnt care less if the guy is 'connected'. He is a ferang. He is threataning your wife, who is Thai. The Thais are extremely tollerant and sympathetic of anyone who defends his fammily. Go have a pop at the guy. It dosent matter who he knows.... this is ferang on ferang and whats more, you are in the right. The Thais will see it from your point of view all day long. Please Simon. PLEASE!!! I beg of you to stand up to this muppet on your own. Be a man!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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