Prosecutors Vow To Arrest Thaksin Upon His Return To Thailand

[blaze]

Maybe the offer was not for 1 billion Baht - but the buying of votes certainly seems to be a trait of the PPP - as the EC is finding out.

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer. Thaksin is a clever and dangerous man as he knows how to dangle irresistible carrots in front of the poor and usually badly educated Thai folk, they then take the carrot with hopeful misguided eyes and he cunningly continues to line his own pocket at the expense of Thailand's real people.

How can it be right in a country of such abject poverty that a few like Thaksin and his cronies can be so rich, and that they carry on ensuring that the poor people of Thailand remain poor, is it maybe for continued cheap labour? This is to me immoral. Sorry but I totally despair now of the future here until the electorate see some sense and start their own REAL peoples' party, much like in the UK 100 years ago when the poor working class majority had little say in politics until they formed their own political party and even then it was still problems until the 1990's when finally it became a realistic political movement of the people and showed how it can make a country prosper for an extended period. I was hoping that the world of extreme right and left politics were almost over and we could move to the consensus and truly productive centre ground, but this election has shown the extreme right can and do still deceive the masses even today.

Still this is not my country but I am a law abiding guest here who loves the place so although I can make my views known, as Thailand does support free speech in principal, there is nothing else of course we can or should do but be good guests and enjoy life here and keep our heads down. I must say though Malaysia is looking more promising for the future, I hope I am wrong but time will tell.

Good to see a post from someone with a pro Thailand outlook. Iagree with the comments but unfortunately the poor N.E. only consider amassing enough money to buy the weeks food and maybe a bottle of Lao Khao , so promises from the likes of PPP(Mr "t") are accepted with out question.

I would not believe you if I didn't hear it myself. A friend of mine who used to work with me has recently opened his own little shop. After the elections I asked him which party he voted for. Simple answer: PPP. I asked him why PPP. His answer was (and I'm not joking!): "I don't care how rich some people get, I just want my little shop running and money coming in". The guy does not CARE about corruption!!! He believes that PPP is making the economy better (after his amazing answer I doubt whether he knows what "economy" stands for) and that this is what keeps his shop going. He is convinced that from new year on his shop will do much better. I did not ask him what exactly made him believe that the Democrats with Abhisit (who I believe has a degree in economics) would not be able to improve the economy. Sorry for that, I just was really speechless.

You shouldn't be - every study I've seen shows that the middle class would strongly support both corrupt governments and military dictatorships- as long as they are making money. (Not, I fear, a whole lot different from the petit-bourgeoisie in the west.)

[Rinrada]

Thai prosecutors vow to arrest former PM Thaksin

BANGKOK -- Thailand prosecutors said they will not hesitate to arrest former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra as soon as he arrives in Thailand, for his alleged involvement in a land corruption scandal, local media reported on Thursday.

Sampan Sarathana, prosecutor of the Office of the Attorney General (OAG), on Thursday denied speculation that the pro-Thaksin People Power Party's imminent rise to power will affect the case against ousted premier Thaksin, who is believed to be the main driving force behind the People Power Party's founding.

"As soon as he sets foot in Thailand, which he claims will be sometime between February and April of next year, he will face police arrest. An arrest warrant has already been issued for him along time ago."

- Xinhua

Dont they realise yet that the tables have TURNED and the teeny weenie junta club is supposed to play the game ...and GO AWAY... ......as in Bhai hae Pon......

[grandma2jaret]

While Thailand sits and talks about what will happen to Thaksin, no-one seems to look at what he is doing around the world.

Here in the UK, everybody thinks he is a nice guy....but one whose country has done the dirty on him!!

He was very public when buying Manchester City. Although not as big as the other team in the city, Manchester United, Manchester City is a Premier League team with loyal supporters. He often has his picture taken sitting there with his football scarf on watching 'his' team. While the sale was going through Thaksin had to go to an enquiry to see, because he had fled Thailand, if he could buy a big English club. Because he was elected and deposed in a Military Coup, Thaksin was seen as having done nothing wrong.

Thaksin was all sweet and smiling every time he was on TV....'If my name is too hard to say, just call me 'Sinatra'...' he said on many occasions.

He has spoken in many countries about being deposed in his own country, even though he was an elected Prime Minister....so, of course, he is seen in many countries as the 'victim' in all of this. No one has ever looked into why he was deposed...as Thaksin gets in first and tells his side of the story, and people take pity on him.

If he was to be arrested in Thailand he would have many countries come to his aid. He has spent a lot of time and money getting everyone to think he is 'poor Mr Sinatra'. There is only Thailand who knows what Thaksin has done and how much money he has made out of corruption. But Thailand hasn't told anyone else!! I don't think anyone in Thailand thought of doing so...they just let Thaksin float around the world making powerful friends.

Thaksin has led a charmed life outside Thailand and always will. Thailand should have told the world why he was deposed. Instead, they have found him many friends. He may come back to Thailand..I don't know. but if he does..stand back and watch the world condemn Thailand....it will happen.

In the West democracy is seen as 'a god'. They see Thaksin as an elected leader deposed by the Military...everyone else will be wrong, but not Thaksin in the eyes of his 'new friends'. He is well aware of this, and that is why he is talking about coming back now. Because he knows that nothing will happen to him.

[Naam]

Live could be so much better for ALL Thai people, if all would say no to bribes and other corruption, just refuse to play that game.

This is not only for Thailand it is for the whole world.

As long as we (The people) strongly reject to those practices we have a chance to live in a better world.

And please do not reply with something like: "This is Thai culture and how long have you been living here"

we all have dreams but my reply is: "Alex stop dreaming, wake up and face reality."

[Naam]

Dont they realise yet that the tables have TURNED and the teeny weenie junta club is supposed to play the game ...and GO AWAY... ......as in Bhai hae Pon......

we all have realised that. but that doesn't mean the junta has realised it.

[pointofview]

In the west it is the media that decides the governement of the day. In Thailand it is a constant battle between elite factions - the poor are a simple pawn in the game.

Thaksin may have the ability to get the backing of the 'pawn' but the most powerfull pieces are still very much in the game!

[grandma2jaret]

How the UK sees Thaksin

****************

He paid 108 million pounds (215 million dollars) to buy Manchester City.

**

'Thaksin won solid support among farmers and low-income earners by launching populist policies of injecting money into the rural economy. Farmers account for roughly 60 percent of Thailand's 65 million population' ....This was a report on a football website when he was buying Manchester City.

**

Thaksin, a self-made billionaire, of trying to "show off his worthiness" to Thais by launching the football deal...again from a football website

**

Thaksin Has Big Plans For City And Thailand

^{Manchester City owner Thaksin Shinwatra is to use his position as the chief of a leading Premier League club to help develop Thailand football and footballers.}

^{Thaksin, the former Prime Minister of the south-east Asian nation, took control of City in the summer.}

^{"What I would like to change is that I would like Thai footballers to have the opportunity to play internationally. It is difficult at the moment because Thai clubs are not in the top 70 world ranking, so it is difficult to get a work permit,” Thaksin told Premier League World TV programme.}

^{“In my position now I am able to create opportunities for Thai footballers and to get more young Thais interested in football, because sport is important in Thailand and getting young Thai people more interested in sport is essential to the future of the country."}

^{"I will do my best to make Manchester City a global brand which in the future, will also incorporate Thai products.}

(You will know better than me if any of this has happened.

**

And these from Manchester newspaper...

Mr Samak said that, if possible, the PPP would grant amnesty to Dr Thaksin and 110 other executives of his now-disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, who were barred from office for five years. “They didn’t do anything wrong,” he said

The results prove beyond doubt Dr Thaksin's popularity in his home country and it is now possible £800m in frozen assets will be released by the new regime.

Thai politics has been in almost constant turmoil since early 2006, when protests mushroomed demanding that Dr Thaksin step down, despite his party’s landslide victory a year earlier giving it an absolute parliamentary majority.

An April 2006 election was boycotted by the opposition and later declared invalid by the courts, leaving Dr Thaksin’s government in limbo until the September 19 coup last year.

But the military-appointed interim government that succeeded it proved weak and indecisive, failing to restore public confidence.

Dr Thaksin was abroad at the time of his removal, and has since lived in exile in the UK.

***

[Gravelrash]

Maybe the offer was not for 1 billion Baht - but the buying of votes certainly seems to be a trait of the PPP - as the EC is finding out.

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer. Thaksin is a clever and dangerous man as he knows how to dangle irresistible carrots in front of the poor and usually badly educated Thai folk, they then take the carrot with hopeful misguided eyes and he cunningly continues to line his own pocket at the expense of Thailand's real people.

How can it be right in a country of such abject poverty that a few like Thaksin and his cronies can be so rich, and that they carry on ensuring that the poor people of Thailand remain poor, is it maybe for continued cheap labour? This is to me immoral. Sorry but I totally despair now of the future here until the electorate see some sense and start their own REAL peoples' party, much like in the UK 100 years ago when the poor working class majority had little say in politics until they formed their own political party and even then it was still problems until the 1990's when finally it became a realistic political movement of the people and showed how it can make a country prosper for an extended period. I was hoping that the world of extreme right and left politics were almost over and we could move to the consensus and truly productive centre ground, but this election has shown the extreme right can and do still deceive the masses even today.

Still this is not my country but I am a law abiding guest here who loves the place so although I can make my views known, as Thailand does support free speech in principal, there is nothing else of course we can or should do but be good guests and enjoy life here and keep our heads down. I must say though Malaysia is looking more promising for the future, I hope I am wrong but time will tell.

With a wonderlust for Malaysia I take it you are not Indian then?

[Gravelrash]

Maybe the offer was not for 1 billion Baht - but the buying of votes certainly seems to be a trait of the PPP - as the EC is finding out.

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer. Thaksin is a clever and dangerous man as he knows how to dangle irresistible carrots in front of the poor and usually badly educated Thai folk, they then take the carrot with hopeful misguided eyes and he cunningly continues to line his own pocket at the expense of Thailand's real people.

How can it be right in a country of such abject poverty that a few like Thaksin and his cronies can be so rich, and that they carry on ensuring that the poor people of Thailand remain poor, is it maybe for continued cheap labour? This is to me immoral. Sorry but I totally despair now of the future here until the electorate see some sense and start their own REAL peoples' party, much like in the UK 100 years ago when the poor working class majority had little say in politics until they formed their own political party and even then it was still problems until the 1990's when finally it became a realistic political movement of the people and showed how it can make a country prosper for an extended period. I was hoping that the world of extreme right and left politics were almost over and we could move to the consensus and truly productive centre ground, but this election has shown the extreme right can and do still deceive the masses even today.

Still this is not my country but I am a law abiding guest here who loves the place so although I can make my views known, as Thailand does support free speech in principal, there is nothing else of course we can or should do but be good guests and enjoy life here and keep our heads down. I must say though Malaysia is looking more promising for the future, I hope I am wrong but time will tell.

It just might be that the masses are not as deceived as you think- just maybe they realize that the poverty you refer to is caused by a society that still is essentially feudal- and that that feudal arrangement depends upon the army for its existance. The Dems were perceived- (and not just by Thai farmers) as being too unwilling to confront the army- pretty much leaving only the PPP and the Chart Thai.

All the fancy trickle down rhetoric will still leave the poor as a permanant underclass- subject to rampant exploitation by the capitalists. You might not agree with that view- but this bar girl I knew in Pattaya- she agreed. And so did the great Economist, John Kenneth Galbraith- though he wasn't referring to Thailand specifically- he chacterized the notion as such: "if you feed enough oats to the horse, some will pass through to feed the sparrows".

Maybe the sparrows are getting a bit tired of eating horse dung.

Yes this is what the tunnel vision hatred of Taksin brings, foreign personal opinions that have nothing to do with rural voters, all they can offer is insults to their intelligence that they voted to the only group who have ever done anyting for them. 15 years ago my wife told me of vote buying, guess what, it isn't new.

[Gravelrash]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

[pointofview]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

[Gravelrash]

3 to 4 million Democrat votes were military men and their families who were ordered, I mean instructed, to vote for the military coup Democrat Party. I'm not sure anyone cares if a few votes were bought for chump change by the PPP.

Yes, but that is a different and honorable form of stacking an election.

[breezein]

Leave the man alone, He internationally the best thing that ever happened to Thailand. Trumpted up charges so the military could justify there actions. The people have spoken.

[Gravelrash]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

Then what do they call it elsewhee? US comes to mind.

[Gravelrash]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

For the first part I disagree, he sold AIS to a Singaporian company, it was and is not a national asset, if that is the case then DTAC and TRUE are national assets as well........ if they are to be called national assets then Thailand may as well turn "communist", do we all want that? As for a billion baht, if Taksin had sold AIS while the Democrates ran the country like a school canteen during 1997 to 2000, then he would have yielded less. He transferred it to his kids and the question is justifiable raised by the ASC (kangaroo court) that the transaction should have yielded tax.... That still has to be answered in court. Should Taksin never had entered politics, he still would have sold it for $2 billion US and as with everybody else would not have had to pay any tax anyway!!!!!!!!!!! So the question is, if he had his time over again, would have Taksin have gone into politics... I bet the anwser is NO, emphatically no.... Why the pain for little gain. What, a piece of land in Ratchadar, I dont think so.

I agree his gov was corrupt, policy wise is most likely the evil culprit, and if they nail him on it, well and good.

hold on right there! it's suppose to be the whole SHIN corporation that he sold which included the SHIN SAT which is a national asset. now the singaporean can easily eavesdrop into thailands' communication system.

Yes, I wonder if they knew in advance about the maneuvers to grab mushrooms, fortumately they still couldn't organise a counterstrike/

[pointofview]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

Then what do they call it elsewhee? US comes to mind.

They also call it democracy! However, if the winning party in thailand has gained power through the use of the great pawn (isan masses) aided by them selling their votes, then surely this is not democracy.

The average isan voter knows little of the workings of the power brokers, and by subscribing to petty corruption they should not be classed as having a valid opinion - they obviously havent. Surely one must have a certain level of understanding to be considered to have a valid opinion.

[blaze]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

Vote buying ends when peoples self interest (and that's what voters all over the world base their selection on) dictates that it is better to cast your vote for policy which, given the track record of the party, will probably to some extent be implemented rather than 3 bucks on election day.

Until TRT the BEST the poor could hope for from parties was the 3 bucks on election day.

All a party has to do in order to erradicate vote buying- is set the bar higher: one party that promises and delivers- consistently over time- and all other parties will have to fall into line in order to compete. And then vote buying will be dead.

[Felt 35]

Samak Sundaravej would become prime minister, while Chalerm Yoobamrung would take the Interior post, Thanong Bidhaya will be finance minister, with Mingkwan Saeng-suwan as deputy prime minister or commerce minister.

Yongyuth Tiyapairat is tipped for Agriculture and General Ruengroj Mahasaranond as defence minister. Somchai Wongsawat will take Justice, Noppadol Pattama gets education and Surapong Suebwonglee will be health minister.

According to PPP sources, Panpree Phahithanukorn might be sports and tourism minister, while Somphong Amornwiwat or Jaruphong Ruengsuwan would take labour.

The Wild Bunch......waiting for Sundance Kid

[Gravelrash]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

Then what do they call it elsewhee? US comes to mind.

They also call it democracy! However, if the winning party in thailand has gained power through the use of the great pawn (isan masses) aided by them selling their votes, then surely this is not democracy.

The average isan voter knows little of the workings of the power brokers, and by subscribing to petty corruption they should not be classed as having a valid opinion - they obviously havent. Surely one must have a certain level of understanding to be considered to have a valid opinion.

They are really coming out of the woodwork tonight. Emancipation eh? Sorry, I must have missed something about voters needing to pass your intelligence test. If you vote for my party, you pass, if not, you fail. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? Well toss democracy out to start with as this is something new (or old), Stalin I suspect may have found this idea appealing.

Now that would be a nice one to float in the west, toss that to the Americans, it should go down real well in the mid west. I take it of course that you consider yourself as one of the elite qualified to vote?

Maybe we need clear up something here. Democracy is government by the people, not just the ones you like. It includes the fat, stupid, ugly, pretty, wealthy and poor. A government needs to appeal to and convince the majority of voters that it is working in both their interests and the interests of the country as a whole or they won't vote for them. Or am I missing something? And they all engage in vote buying or stacking, but a platform that is actually believed would no doubt in time eradiavte that. PPP had some credibility, not with TV blogists but with the actual electorate. Democrats need to get their act together for the whole country, not just their mates in Bangkok. Time for bed.

[NanLaew]

The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

Like in, say.... Burma?

[Nickel]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Well said and that should, but it wont, be the end of the matter.

[Johpa]

folks are dreaming if they think you can run a country like thialand with some form of coruption, or any other country for that matter

Apart from a very few tolerated socialist Scandinavian countries, tolerated by the corporate global empire because they are white Caucasian, non-Catholic Christian, and somewhat unimportant (that is fairly low population) on a global scale, it would appear to me that few of the nation-states that predominate the political landscape today, are run without massive forms of corruption at their heart. So the question is whether you can "run" a country like Thailand without turning to a socialist model a la Norway. So I would ask you not what are you dreaming but rather what are you smoking?

[pointofview]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

Then what do they call it elsewhee? US comes to mind.

They also call it democracy! However, if the winning party in thailand has gained power through the use of the great pawn (isan masses) aided by them selling their votes, then surely this is not democracy.

The average isan voter knows little of the workings of the power brokers, and by subscribing to petty corruption they should not be classed as having a valid opinion - they obviously havent. Surely one must have a certain level of understanding to be considered to have a valid opinion.

They are really coming out of the woodwork tonight. Emancipation eh? Sorry, I must have missed something about voters needing to pass your intelligence test. If you vote for my party, you pass, if not, you fail. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? Well toss democracy out to start with as this is something new (or old), Stalin I suspect may have found this idea appealing.

Now that would be a nice one to float in the west, toss that to the Americans, it should go down real well in the mid west. I take it of course that you consider yourself as one of the elite qualified to vote?

Maybe we need clear up something here. Democracy is government by the people, not just the ones you like. It includes the fat, stupid, ugly, pretty, wealthy and poor. A government needs to appeal to and convince the majority of voters that it is working in both their interests and the interests of the country as a whole or they won't vote for them. Or am I missing something? And they all engage in vote buying or stacking, but a platform that is actually believed would no doubt in time eradiavte that. PPP had some credibility, not with TV blogists but with the actual electorate. Democrats need to get their act together for the whole country, not just their mates in Bangkok. Time for bed.

What i tried to convey was that if a voter is dumb enough to sell their vote then by definition that vote should be void. Anyway democracy is a flawed concept used by dictatorial powers to convince the masses that they have a stake in the game. If you take the Uk as an example and look at the authors and thinking behind the NEW LABOUR agenda you will see the definite proven marxist/communist influence.

Prove it you shout: ok, the now foreign secretarys, (David Milliband), father - being the main author and influence of new labour - was a confirmed marxist thinker. Milliband was ear marked for high office before he could spell office. Tony Blairs grandfather - a great infuence on blair as he was growing up - was the communist MP for Govan in Scotland. His granmother =- who he adored - was arrested for painting communist slogans around the town!

Most voters wouldnt have a clue re. these facts - so what are they voting for!

Edited December 27, 2007 by pointofview

[Johpa]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

It is not that difficult to understand this neo-sahib mindset. Look, many of those living in Thailand are living the colonial good life, a life they could never imagine back in their homelands, or could but only at far, far greater expense. They must maintain some sort of pretense that they are somehow contributing to an improvement in the lives of those who provide them with this gifted lifestyle. Thaksin took away some of the veneer of respectability with his blatant corruption, which they prefer not to be blatant, and of course the neo-sahibs were quite bothered by Thaksin's violent war on the meth epidemic. I mean it was not particularly comely to write home that you are living the good life in a country whose government is out shooting low level drug dealers in the streets. No matter that the peoples whose lives had been negatively impacted by the drug epidemic were grateful for getting the drug dealers out of their children's schools and were supportive of these draconian measures. So the neo-sahib has this need to imagine that the issue is simply that of an errant individual and not an issue of the larger socio-political system in order to rationalize their good fortunes without tinges of guilt.

[rainman]

A few points of correction first - it was Thaksin's monumental mismanagement of the economy prior to this govt that "drove the economy into the ground". They inherited a pretty lousy hand on the back of 5 years of spending tomorrow's money today until there was nothing left in the till.

Secondly, they didn't take any healthcare benefits from the poor. In fact, they kept TRT's rather questionable system in place and reduced it from 30 Baht to free, so in fact gave even more (of a system that was spouting leaks anyway) back to the people, rather than make some difficult decisions about rationalising and truly reforming the Min of Public Health.

Thirdly, I hadn't realised visa regulations were more difficult for foreigners post-coup, but I note that the numbers of foreign people deciding to emigrate to Thailand still seems to be on a roll, and if numbers have slowed, then I would see that as a good thing on the whole. It's hardly a matter of major national importance though, set against other domestic and foreign affairs policies, which I would have to say have been a mixed bag of "good and bad" moves since the military stepped in. The important things as I see it, is they've allowed a semblance of an impartial judiciary to operate (totally absent under Toxin); cleaned up many national institutions by allowing some genuinely clean and honest people into the govt (think Seri in the cops and Khunying Jaruwan in the accounts dept); and they've fulfilled their promise to hold general elections before end of 2007. OK so they were delayed from original timetable, but at least they were not total scams like Thaksin's previous 2 elections.

As for not "bringing a single charge forward against Thaksin", I don't really know what to say about this, as I know you read TV often and presumably other news sources and you have a modicum of intelligence and sincerity, so I can only assume that akin to other people on reading things that happen to run counter to your own little prejudices and worldviews about how things should be, you just switch off and block them out entirely. There must have been literally thousands of posts discussing charges brought against Thaksin and his family. C'mon Rainman, you've got some catching up with the plot to do, or you're in danger of missing it entirely!

Don't get me wrong, I never said Thaksin was an angel. But in my opinion (which is worth less than a Baht in Thai politics, anyways), the country was better off with him than without. I don't know the whole story about the healthcare system, so I may be wrong about that, but the military government really hasn't done anything to improve the image or economy of Thailand for sure.

Those affected by the Visa changes are mostly 30-day visa runners, marriage visa and retirement visa holders. I felt the changes myself when I renewed my marriage visa and my mom felt it in her retirement visa application. Sure it may have been a good thing in the long run to close the 30-day visa runners loop hole, though I've used it myself in the past. But making life difficult for those living here with their wife or those who decided to make Thailand their home after retirement is just stupid.

As for Seri not being corrupt, well ..let's just say I'm not going to comment on it. We'll leave it at that.

What I've seen over the past year is the military government trying to bring charges against Thaksin and they've been unable to in every way. So far he hasn't been charged with anything, though they keep talking about arresting him. Is that the democracy the military government and their allies, the Democrats are preaching? Let's face it. The Democrats are preaching "democracy" for Thailand, but they refuse to accept that the majority of the people have voted for the PPP. The military government says there may well be another coup. Is that democracy? Not accepting free election results, threatening with another coup ...I don't think that's democracy.

The fact is, whether we like it or not, the Thai people have voted in majority for the PPP. That is their choice. Its not our role to "convert" them to democracy if they don't want to. The Democrat party in Thailand doesn't have a clue about democracy anyways if they can't even accept free election results.

So like I said, Thaksin may have been corrupt and taking money for himself, but every politician does that. The military government surely put a few Baht here and there in their pockets as well. And where did the money go that they supposedly "froze" from Thaksin? Perhaps they're worried now that he's coming back, they will have to pay back that money. Let's hope they still have it.

If they would have spent a bit more time giving that money to the poor people in need during this past year and a bit less time blaming everything they could find on Thaksin, perhaps those poor people, which are the majority, would have not voted for the PPP.

It takes brains to run a country. Thaksin has it, the military government doesn't. That's the reason for the current situation.

Edited December 27, 2007 by rainman

[blakegeee]

"I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election. "

The 'elections were real', and the poor uneducated 'were bribed'.

My wife is from a Hilltribe village in the North and she just talked to family up there and was unhappy to hear that everyone in her village accepted 200b per person to vote for PPP. And people they know in the city accepted 500b per person. (Not to mention they also accepted bribes for TRT years ago).

I am sure they will arrest Taksin when he comes back, and I am sure they will have all the camera crews ready to show off their point of adhering to the law. Then once out of sight, they will take him on vacation...I mean jail...no probably vacation. They are probably practicing the "show" right now at a studio in Hong Kong.

And about somebodies point of how Taksin is no more corrupt that his predacessors...SO WHAT!? So by that rationel, if any German Leader is any less cruel than Hitler, we should let it be???? There will be a time when Thailand finally conquers corruption, sooner is better than later. Lets try to make it happen.

[Johpa]

There are two major groups of people in Thailand, the rural poor and the residents of Bangkok. The rural poor do not, in many cases, have access to, interest in or capacity to understand the facts about a political party or its leader - "facts" as far as this group is concerned is what the most senior or most respected resident heard or knows, often it's simply a case of believing what everyone else believes. Bangkok residents on the other hand are more likely to work with or for more informed sources of information and represent a more aware group. It therefore comes as no surprise that, as always in Thai political history, Issan voters win the day and that the PPP will now form the next government. Posters should not be so surprised.

Balderdash! Rural folks are for the most part literate, read the newspapers and watch the TV news. They do discuss politics and sure, they tend to pay more heed to the more educated elders in the village (often the current and former headmen and kamnaans and now the tambon development folks) and their opinions on matters. And in fact those in Bangkok and the other cities may not be as involved in such discussions not having casual access to such debates in their urban ghettos and slums. So it is, as you suggest, not surprising that rural voters, being the majority win the day, but it is not because they do not have the capacity to understand the issues.

[rainman]

And about somebodies point of how Taksin is no more corrupt that his predacessors...SO WHAT!? So by that rationel, if any German Leader is any less cruel than Hitler, we should let it be???? There will be a time when Thailand finally conquers corruption, sooner is better than later. Lets try to make it happen.

Comparing Thaksin with Hitler is probably not the best example. Until there's someone better than Thaksin, I'd rather have Thaksin who pockets money for himself and does something for the country, than the current government and its allies who also pocket money but do nothing for the country.

[Maxi101]

What is it with all the people in this thread apparently cheering for the military government? All they accomplished in 1 year is drive the economy into the ground, take away healthcare benefits for the poor (and then wonder why they don't get any votes from the poor), make visa regulations more difficult for foreigners, etc. While they still haven't brought a single charge forward against Thaksin.

Sorry guys, that government was a failure and it's time the old government came back. We all complained about Thaksin's government before, but after the past year, I have to say it was much better than the current one.

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence? I think the coup makers saw a referendum get forced through, they thought the same would happen with the election. The coup makers were holding all the cards, wake up. As with all elections you don't have to like the outcome but democracy says you accept it.

Vote buying by corrupt politicians is not democracy!

Vote buying ends when peoples self interest (and that's what voters all over the world base their selection on) dictates that it is better to cast your vote for policy which, given the track record of the party, will probably to some extent be implemented rather than 3 bucks on election day.

Until TRT the BEST the poor could hope for from parties was the 3 bucks on election day.

All a party has to do in order to erradicate vote buying- is set the bar higher: one party that promises and delivers- consistently over time- and all other parties will have to fall into line in order to compete. And then vote buying will be dead.

"I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand. The mistake was that the coup did not stay in place longer and ensure a real election. "

The 'elections were real', and the poor uneducated 'were bribed'.

My wife is from a Hilltribe village in the North and she just talked to family up there and was unhappy to hear that everyone in her village accepted 200b per person to vote for PPP. And people they know in the city accepted 500b per person. (Not to mention they also accepted bribes for TRT years ago).

I am sure they will arrest Taksin when he comes back, and I am sure they will have all the camera crews ready to show off their point of adhering to the law. Then once out of sight, they will take him on vacation...I mean jail...no probably vacation. They are probably practicing the "show" right now at a studio in Hong Kong.

And about somebodies point of how Taksin is no more corrupt that his predacessors...SO WHAT!? So by that rationel, if any German Leader is any less cruel than Hitler, we should let it be???? There will be a time when Thailand finally conquers corruption, sooner is better than later. Lets try to make it happen.

Vote buying, Vote buying,

can't hear (read) that stuff anymore.

Why?

1. I think the poor would just have voted the same and the result wouldn't have been much different if there would have been absolutely no vote buying.

2. Maybe I am wrong or missing something, but how can be somebody sure that after buying a vote - the voter actually votes for him ......................... that's nonsense. And why they shouldn't take the bucks ?!?!

maxi

[amarka]

And about somebodies point of how Taksin is no more corrupt that his predacessors...SO WHAT!? So by that rationel, if any German Leader is any less cruel than Hitler, we should let it be???? There will be a time when Thailand finally conquers corruption, sooner is better than later. Lets try to make it happen.

Comparing Thaksin with Hitler is probably not the best example. Until there's someone better than Thaksin, I'd rather have Thaksin who pockets money for himself and does something for the country, than the current government and its allies who also pocket money but do nothing for the country.

hi....

a valid point.....

mr T has the current "government" against him..... the junta.... and the whole paid off tribe........

he is out of the country....

people are afraid to vote for him.... yes.... many are afraid.......

but still " his party" take the biggest share of the votes.....

so now he has a few months to erode the military's power still further until he returns.....

if he can achieve all of this without even being in the country..... there must be a lot of woried people in thailand wondering what he wll achieve when he gets back and where all this leaves them......... presumably in jail?

democracy is scuh good fun!

amarka