Us Customs Stopping People With Laptops

[fanciman]

I heard this elsewhere. Can it be true?

The copy everything on your hard disk, flash drives etc.

If stuff is encrypted, they want to know the passphrase. If you don't provide it, they talk with you in a room for 3 hours, so i heard.

One guy had a machine that linked booted from the www on a disk in the Netherlands. He got the long talk.

What do you think? What would you do?

[Maestro]

I heard this elsewhere. Can it be true?...

Of course it’s true. Elsewhere always tells the truth. Incidentally, is Elsewhere his first name or his last name?

Personally, I have never heard this story, and the event it describes has never happened to me on any of my visits with my laptop to the USA. So from that point of view, ie from my personal experience, it is not true.

--

Maestro

[Richard-BKK]

Wow did not know you can boot an computer over the internet, from a hard disk connected at a remote location. Anyway never hear about problems in the US, one time a custom officer make a joke like comment about me having 4 notebooks.

[funfun]

What do you think? What would you do?

well Nothing, unless you really dont want them to look at it for a Reason!!!!!!!!!

[Naam]

I heard this elsewhere. Can it be true?...

Of course it’s true. Elsewhere always tells the truth. Incidentally, is Elsewhere his first name or his last name?

Personally, I have never heard this story, and the event it describes has never happened to me on any of my visits with my laptop to the USA. So from that point of view, ie from my personal experience, it is not true.

--

Maestro

it is indeed true Maestro. happened to a good friend of mine several times last year. he is a pilot with Lufthansa and flies to the U.S. on a weekly basis. his solution was to delete all unnecessary data from his drive and to carry a USB-stick with him.

[DaveBKK]

Hmm, have to call BS on this one. This has never happened to me on any recent trips to the States, nor has it happened to anyone I personally know, nor have I seen it happen to anyone going through the customs line with me.. Perhaps only happening to certain people that are flagged? Somehow doubt it...

[lomatopo]

CBP and ICE can 'secondary' anyone entering the U.S.A. and search their belongings, including cameras and PC's without warrant or probable cause. They can also ask you any questions they choose. I assume there is some profiling, sex/age/countries visited (male, 45-65, Thailand) and even some targeting (watch list, tip), that leads to extensive secondary searches. There are some first-hand reports in several travel-related forums. For some, say carrying confidential business documents, it can get quite tricky.

www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719265

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=2671

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?Men...ContentID=36317

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/200.../laptopsearches

Edited December 29, 2007 by sbk
no direct links to outside forums per forum rules--sbk

[Naam]

Hmm, have to call BS on this one. This has never happened to me on any recent trips to the States, nor has it happened to anyone I personally know, nor have I seen it happen to anyone going through the customs line with me.. Perhaps only happening to certain people that are flagged? Somehow doubt it...

like pilots who fly for Lufthansa for 35 years, having entered the U.S. numerous times and are therefore known to have close ties to al-Qaeda and various other terrorist organisations?

[corkscrew]

I flew in and out of the US this fall. My laptop attracted no interest.

[pgrin]

I heard this elsewhere. Can it be true?

The copy everything on your hard disk, flash drives etc.

If stuff is encrypted, they want to know the passphrase. If you don't provide it, they talk with you in a room for 3 hours, so i heard.

One guy had a machine that linked booted from the www on a disk in the Netherlands. He got the long talk.

What do you think? What would you do?

After 20 0r so trips from Thailand to USA with laptop I was stopped for the first time in Oct 2007 in Detroit. Sent for additional screening. Agent asked me to log on to my computer and he then searched my hard drive for jpg. files. Took about 30 minutes. Also more complete search of my bags. Did not find anything out of the ordinary and I was on my way.

P

[sfokevin]

I would say if you fit the profile of a single male from 30 - 60 yo who returns from Bangkok/Viet Nam/Philippines... etc... your computer and digital recording devices would be of more than passing interest to customs...

I always show them my digital pictures of the in laws and aunties at the family dinner...

[hp8000]

Sent for additional screening. Agent asked me to log on to my computer and he then searched my hard drive for jpg. files. Took about 30 minutes. Also more complete search of my bags. Did not find anything out of the ordinary and I was on my way.

P

So now it means that any people entering USA is considerated as a potential paedo and shoul have his .jpg and media files checked ?

And what is it if you have some erotic pics and movies of your wife or girlfriend instead of forbidden material ? Is it a nice behaviour to break into your private life without any serious proofs ?

Welcome to the land of freedom.

[Langsuan Man]

The only time my computer has attracted any attention was last time going through security at Chicago, they flagged the laptop and swiped it and put the swab into the chamber. Obviously they were checking for explosives. I do know that they now have a new rule that they want the laptop out of it's case and to go through the X'ray machine separately from any other carry on items.

But taking data off of the hard drive as detailed by the fist poster my only comment would be that this person was on a watch list and the authorities used the warrant-less nature of customs as a way to get at their data.

LSM

[Veazer]

My last trip through I was already feeling stressed because I was returning to see a sick family member. I had a 36 hour stopover in Taiwan and had instructed the ticket agents to send my checked bags to the US because i would not be needing them in taiwan. When i arrived in the US, i explained the situation with my luggage to a baggage handler and asked if they would be coming out with the other passengers' baggage or if they had arrived before. The handler said they would have arrived before and would be stored at the main terminal.

I tried to go through customs and they asked where my luggage was. I told them what the baggage handler told me and they asked who said that, of course when i turned around to point him out he wasn't around anymore. At this point they told me to go to the inspection line. I started to open my bag to let them have a look and some over-the-top b*tch yelled for me to shut the bag and not open it until i was told to do so. This is when the fun began. A few other agents gathered around and started asking, very rudely and aggressively, why i was in thailand, what do i do, etc. They started going through my stuff and telling me to 'keep my hands where they can see them'. I started to feel sick and need to use the restroom, and of course they had to come along for the ride and watch me take a crap just in case i was carrying drugs.

When i got out they had my laptop open and running and demanded the password, as well as the passwords for my encrypted drives. They started doing a system search for jpg and other image files. They found a rather dodgy looking photo of a young girl next to a swimming pool that I hadn't seen before at which point I got rather nervous. I knew I didn't put anything illegal on my pc, but once you've seen one image that you don't recognize you start to wonder what else is on your pc and how did it get there.

I was asked if i had been arrested before and lead away to get my bags which evidently were with the rest of the other passengers bags. Two customs agents stood on either side of me insulting me loudly and asking me 'what's really going on??' and saying 'you don't even have any luggage do you??'. I just ignored them and stared straight ahead trying to come to terms with what was going on. My bags eventually came and I was lead back to my laptop and other carry on luggage. I asked the agent inspecting my laptop where he found that image and he told me it wasn't a problem, it was just a thumbnail from the adobe stock image site. (Do a search for 'artistic' with the adobe stock art app and you may be able to find it as well)

Eventually they were satisfied that I wasn't bringing anything illicit into the country and I was allowed to repack everything up and leave. It was a stressful experience and I dread having to deal with these people again.

[stumonster]

Sent for additional screening. Agent asked me to log on to my computer and he then searched my hard drive for jpg. files. Took about 30 minutes. Also more complete search of my bags. Did not find anything out of the ordinary and I was on my way.

P

So now it means that any people entering USA is considerated as a potential paedo and shoul have his .jpg and media files checked ?

And what is it if you have some erotic pics and movies of your wife or girlfriend instead of forbidden material ? Is it a nice behaviour to break into your private life without any serious proofs ?

Welcome to the land of freedom.

I saw a reference to this on slashdot 6-8 months ago but a quick search did not find the article. the bloke in question was crossing the mexican border by land when his hard drive was inspected.

as to your photos - I would add all music and movies to your list and hope all metadata indicates it is all purchased legally or else you may find yourself charged for contravening the Digital millennium Copyright Act ( DMCA )

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I found that if you want to be hasseled going into the US pay for your ticket with cash. That really upsets them and they go through everything.

[hp8000]

I found that if you want to be hasseled going into the US pay for your ticket with cash. That really upsets them and they go through everything.

This has and will never happen. USA is not on my list of recommendable countries.

[stats]

Maybe the customs are looking for illegal porn.

[lomatopo]

Maybe the customs are looking for illegal porn.

As it applies to the specific topic under discussion in this thread, yes. Specifically, "...or other article which is obscene or immoral...", which is more or less defined as child pornography.

See 19 U.S.C. § 1305 for additional details.

§ 1305. Immoral articles; importation prohibited

(a) Prohibition of importation

All persons are prohibited from importing into the United States from any foreign country any book, pamphlet, paper, writing, advertisement, circular, print, picture, or drawing containing any matter advocating or urging treason or insurrection against the United States, or forcible resistance to any law of the United States, or containing any threat to take the life of or inflict bodily harm upon any person in the United States, or any obscene book, pamphlet, paper, writing, advertisement, circular, print, picture, drawing, or other representation, figure, or image on or of paper or other material, or any cast, instrument, or other article which is obscene or immoral, or any drug or medicine or any article whatever for causing unlawful abortion, or any lottery ticket, or any printed paper that may be used as a lottery ticket, or any advertisement of any lottery. No such articles whether imported separately or contained in packages with other goods entitled to entry, shall be admitted to entry; and all such articles and, unless it appears to the satisfaction of the appropriate customs officer that the obscene or other prohibited articles contained in the package were inclosed therein without the knowledge or consent of the importer, owner, agent, or consignee, the entire contents of the package in which such articles are contained, shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture as hereinafter provided: Provided, That the drugs hereinbefore mentioned, when imported in bulk and not put up for any of the purposes hereinbefore specified, are excepted from the operation of this subdivision: Provided further, That the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, admit the so-called classics or books of recognized and established literary or scientific merit, but may, in his discretion, admit such classics or books only when imported for noncommercial purposes: Provided further, That effective January 1, 1993, this section shall not apply to any lottery ticket, printed paper that may be used as a lottery ticket, or advertisement of any lottery, that is printed in Canada for use in connection with a lottery conducted in the United States.

[lordofdelusion]

Maybe the customs are looking for illegal porn.

In march of 2006 , after 2 months in Thailand, I was stopped in San Francisco airport customs and had to start up my laptop. This after a particularly sour woman at immigration asked me why I was in Thailand for 2 months. Didn't like my answer I guess so she scribbled a red mark on my form and sent me off to customs. I was asked specifically about porn but when my screen saver of many Buddhas came up the guy just let me go. If you are traveling alone in Thailand, you must be up to no good!

[JetsetBkk]

Maybe the customs are looking for illegal porn.

Is there "legal porn"?

[lomatopo]

Maybe the customs are looking for illegal porn.

Is there "legal porn"?

Yes. Of course each country has its own legal definitions. I think we're discussing the U.S.A. in this thread, so yes there are clear definitions of legal and illegal porn. For the U.S.A., and for the general issues surrounding this thread (CBP/ICE secondary inspections of digital material), obscene/immoral material is generally accepted to involve children or animals (child porn/bestiality). You're not going to get busted for having a Thai lottery ticket in hand.

[astral]

Is there "legal porn"?

Quite possibly.

The definition of what constitutes pornography varies widely from country to country.

[Crushdepth]

So what happens if you have encrypted stuff on your drive and don't give them the keys? (or can't give them because you forgot/lost them/the info is confidential and you would be legally liable/lose your job for disclosing it?).

Are they entitled to demand decryption? Or can you 'politely decline'.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Crushdepth

[britmaveric]

Hmmmm never happened to me and my notebook goes everywhere. Only screened for explosives.

[astral]

So what happens if you have encrypted stuff on your drive and don't give them the keys? (or can't give them because you forgot/lost them/the info is confidential and you would be legally liable/lose your job for disclosing it?).

Are they entitled to demand decryption? Or can you 'politely decline'.

I have no idea for the US,

but in the UK it is go to jail time if you do not give up the keys.

A law on the statute book, but I understand has never been tested.

[endure]

So what happens if you have encrypted stuff on your drive and don't give them the keys? (or can't give them because you forgot/lost them/the info is confidential and you would be legally liable/lose your job for disclosing it?).

Are they entitled to demand decryption? Or can you 'politely decline'.

I have no idea for the US,

but in the UK it is go to jail time if you do not give up the keys.

A law on the statute book, but I understand has never been tested.

The final part of the "Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000" came into force in the UK recently. It is an offence punishable by up to 2 years in prison to refuse to hand over encryption keys when asked to do so.

[swain]

I went through US customs last time and they indeed want to go through my laptop computer. They had me boot it and pull up directories and images. They said that there was a lot of child porn coming in and they couldn't be too careful. He spent 10 minutes doing this... only finding pictures of me and my wife and my baby girl. SO.... the answer is yes... they are doing this to some... I had nothing to hid.. but hel_l... if I did it might have been a different story.

[stumonster]

yes - I can't see them being computer experts - so I wonder what happens if you have a linux distro running that only boots to console , will they know enough to start the GUI or even search your partitions.

or if you have a dual boot machine with a clean windows install and a linux distro ?

[DaveBKK]

yes - I can't see them being computer experts - so I wonder what happens if you have a linux distro running that only boots to console , will they know enough to start the GUI or even search your partitions.

or if you have a dual boot machine with a clean windows install and a linux distro ?

Or a USB jumpdrive, or CDs/Dvds, or an SD Card or MicroSD card, or an iPod, or even a phone. Or....what if one has just renamed their image files