Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Prakanong]

It's telling that Reisig said she had her face painted up. This is a bit like taking your shirt off in a public place here in Thailand or acting in what would otherwise be perceived - by Thais - as acting and/or behaving in an abnormal or un-natural manner i.e. not seen to be complying by the unwritten rules that govern and maintain Thai society.

You will draw attention to yourself.

This is a jungle - and if you are different or are perceived as being different then you've got to be dealt with - you are a natural target - everyone will understand this!

This is a conformist and feudal society. There are few outward expressions of 'individual' behaviour or character. Emotions - feelings - actions are deliberately hidden and subdued.

Undoubtedly, these poor unfortunate westerners may have been unwittingly and inadvertently drawing attention to themselves - and from the wrong murderous quarters!

I hope the Thai cop hangs from the balls for this dreadful crime.

Remember this was Pai and not the CBD in Bangkok.

Its a bit of a hippy traveller type of place and I am sure there are more things that would appear weird to the more straitlaced among us than face painting.

Who know's though what this drunken half wit of a policeman thought though - he probably had about 6 years of education muddled by his drinking.

Arkady who has written some very knowledgeable posts on the subject points to Thai police closing ranks.

Who know's - they may realise that they can not cover this up and too much attention has been thrown on them - they might visit the copper and he might committ "Suicide" for the good of the larger group - but I am not holding my breath.

Maybe we should all send innocent emails to local Thai Embassies or TAT offices asking if Thailand is safe to book a holiday and show a link to the newspaper reports - they hate bad publicity about anything

[Claymore]

i also doubt that this reporter who works also for 'news papers' like the Sun give us a 'well-balanced' report. he makes a living of selling 'stories'

Yes, clearly an on-the-spot reporter with an eye to his word count is going to be less reliable and less furnished with anything factual than someone posting deductions from a Patong Beach internet and computer games caff.

dear mr. journalist,

no reason for being ironic here.

yes, i think he is quite a little bit sensation-seeking, and compering this case immediately with the kanchanaburi killing he give a judgment allready.

quote "... another police "loss of face" execution."

there is no questioning if the report from the girl is really the truth, is taken as fact, unproven.

hey but there are so many question why jump the police man on random on here, out of the blue? why he has his gun left on the motocycle? where was this artist fuen? and so on.

just read that. try to be in a neutral position without anyprejudice

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/01/07/...thai-policeman/

that is far far away from any form of "well balanced" report as someone called it. at least for me, but okay there are maybe a lot of differences of a cultural, national, educational and generational background that determinds your opinion of is it 'well balanced' or not.

i call it onesided boulevard journalism and is it not the last ultimative and impartial genuine truth as a few people take it here.

it's just the view of the other side and should be also put under questioning same as the police story.

Well I guess taking the Kanchanaburi case into question this speculation by Andrew Drummond - and it was clearly stated as such - may have been reasonable, and the policeman did probably lose face. The sgt certainly did in Kan. Anybody here smashed a Thai policeman and survived? I note in the Nation story the girl was asked twice if she had been quarreling. It shows the reporter had some doubt. There is still no reasonable account as to why the policeman shd attack the girl. Guess we'll have to wait til Drummond gets on the Boulevard again. I defer to Arkady here, clearly the soundest voice of all.

But if this is what u describe as Boulevard journalism then I'm all for more of it. Where are all the other hacks.

[DamianMavis]

Andrew Drummond, the reporter of The Nation article and the interview of Carly Reisig does work for a lot publications particularly in the UK. His stories show up in the Daily Telegraph as well as the Sun. Most foreign correspondents here do business reporting but Drummond is one of the few that do human interest stories mainly involving Brits. From what I have seen of his work his reporting and research are pretty top notch and he is not scared to report stories that some people here might not like. He has received several death threats in the past and was badly beaten up while doing a story on the Pattaya mafia.

Yes, I agree with that. I don't know him personally. But look at the difference in the reports. I mean even if you think he's tarting it up, the quotes speak for themselves versus the other weak rubbish passing as journalism.

There was a post above a few pages back that said Drummond is sensationalist. I can't mention the poster's name due to forum rules - how "convenient" - but I wonder if that poster is friends of Boyz, Boyz, Boys - the place where Drummond really made his mark over the death of some kid nearby? I don't know - I just 'wonder'. Anyway, whomever, they nearly chased him out of the country and yes I recall he reported death threats too. Who knows..

But let common sense be the judge here. Why isn't there more 'real' news reporting? People are just scared I reckon. Oh, by the way, in case you didn't know - one of the banned occupations here for a foreigner is 'domestic' journalist - has to be a Thai. Now why is that you ask?

I'll say it, it was Seonai. Nothing against her, if she wants to put her opinon in (no matter how ill advised) that is her right, it is also her right to be disagreed with. As I'm about to do:

Telling us that you think the journalist is sensationalist means what exactly? That therefore his story interviewing the Canadian woman is bogus or made up or exagerated? To me you just jumped on the bandwagon with all the thai cops lying to cover their mafia lifestyle. Why would you do that? Why would you support their ludicrous claims by discounting the article interviewing the actual person that survived such a horrible attack? SHOCK is what I feel to say the least. Same with Chloe trying to smear the journalist, way to stick with your falang sisters, trying to discredit the only man trying to HELP this young victim and bring justice to the murdered man.

Damian

Edited January 8, 2008 by DamianMavis

[tokyosheep]

Already, we've determined that an execution took place. I'd guess some beligerent tourists insulted the wrong Thai guy. He may or may not have been a cop, doesn't much matter now does it. Lesson learned: drink lots of water, walk slowly and respect the local population. Funny, works just about everywhere.

can I say this?, I,am half and half ...<deleted> to any idea of kowtowing, showing respect for the culture ( which is what exactly...? )if it means backing down, do not back down from any of there cowards- none of them!

do not change anything, policeman or not,just do as a normal decent person would do and 99.9% of the time your be fine.

,most locals are a bunch of cowardly <deleted> who would,nt do anything without all their friends behind them or a gun,knife or whatever, or some high-so daddy, its pathetic! Get them on their own and they,re nothing.

one to one for people here does,nt exist, at heart I,am ashamed to say this-thais by and large ( not all of coures)are cowards, its just the typical primate mentality of a nation still with one foot in the rice paddy .They ( we) also see westeners as 'better' and so are more likely to act like a primate fool.

I hate it when i see people suggest that westeners should somehow act differently, why does,nt someone suggest that thailand grow up for a change- then we really would have something to be proud of instead of all this mindless propaganda we,re fed from day one

Are you for real?

obviously not- you just imagined me....come on man , get real, look at this place, look at this mindset, forget the race issue....

can anyone with half a balanced mind honestly say any different. Thailand is a nation of infants, it only has an airport because of the daughter it sells to rich farany, thats something to be realy proud of there. The countrys is a mess and a joke, and unless people put aside this fake ego based patriotism there will never be any progress....

[bulmercke]

It's telling that Reisig said she had her face painted up. This is a bit like taking your shirt off in a public place here in Thailand or acting in what would otherwise be perceived - by Thais - as acting and/or behaving in an abnormal or un-natural manner i.e. not seen to be complying by the unwritten rules that govern and maintain Thai society.

You will draw attention to yourself.

This is a jungle - and if you are different or are perceived as being different then you've got to be dealt with - you are a natural target - everyone will understand this!

This is a conformist and feudal society. There are few outward expressions of 'individual' behaviour or character. Emotions - feelings - actions are deliberately hidden and subdued.

Undoubtedly, these poor unfortunate westerners may have been unwittingly and inadvertently drawing attention to themselves - and from the wrong murderous quarters!

I hope the Thai cop hangs from the balls for this dreadful crime.

Remember this was Pai and not the CBD in Bangkok.

Its a bit of a hippy traveller type of place and I am sure there are more things that would appear weird to the more straitlaced among us than face painting.

Who know's though what this drunken half wit of a policeman thought though - he probably had about 6 years of education muddled by his drinking.

Arkady who has written some very knowledgeable posts on the subject points to Thai police closing ranks.

Who know's - they may realise that they can not cover this up and too much attention has been thrown on them - they might visit the copper and he might committ "Suicide" for the good of the larger group - but I am not holding my breath.

Maybe we should all send innocent emails to local Thai Embassies or TAT offices asking if Thailand is safe to book a holiday and show a link to the newspaper reports - they hate bad publicity about anything

Good point Prakanong - but in the Kanchanaburi case - after the crime - the cop went on the lam - i.e. he ran away quickly. He was scared. He tried to change his appearance by growing a beard! He was unsure of the loyalty of his friends. He sought sanctuary in the border areas with Myanmar.

In short, he didn't know what to do - such was his guilt. He realised he was a liability for the BIB.

Could be the same in this case. He was granted bail - but this doesn't mean in any sense he has immunity from prosecution -

In short - the case stinks - and he's on a very dodgy wicket!

[JonnyF]

It's telling that Reisig said she had her face painted up. This is a bit like taking your shirt off in a public place here in Thailand or acting in what would otherwise be perceived - by Thais - as acting and/or behaving in an abnormal or un-natural manner i.e. not seen to be complying by the unwritten rules that govern and maintain Thai society.

You will draw attention to yourself.

This is a jungle - and if you are different or are perceived as being different then you've got to be dealt with - you are a natural target - everyone will understand this!

This is a conformist and feudal society. There are few outward expressions of 'individual' behaviour or character. Emotions - feelings - actions are deliberately hidden and subdued.

Undoubtedly, these poor unfortunate westerners may have been unwittingly and inadvertently drawing attention to themselves - and from the wrong murderous quarters!

I hope the Thai cop hangs from the balls for this dreadful crime.

That's an interesting point, I'm not a "face painter" myself but I'd be interested to know the Thai perspective on this. Is it offensive here and if so, to what degree? There's an episode of Seinfeld that gives quite an accurate and humorous portrayal of face-painting in the West and maybe there is more significance to this in Thailand than many of us are aware of... Anyone know?

Secondly, I'd love to know the previous behaviour of the cop that led to him being arrested and released on bail prior to last nights tragic incident. Lets's hope this Drummond guy can continue to report as openly as possible, he's got bigger balls than me that's for sure and quite frankly (Chloe) I couldn't care which bars he drinks in when he's finished work.

Edited January 8, 2008 by JonnyF

[bulmercke]

It's telling that Reisig said she had her face painted up. This is a bit like taking your shirt off in a public place here in Thailand or acting in what would otherwise be perceived - by Thais - as acting and/or behaving in an abnormal or un-natural manner i.e. not seen to be complying by the unwritten rules that govern and maintain Thai society.

You will draw attention to yourself.

This is a jungle - and if you are different or are perceived as being different then you've got to be dealt with - you are a natural target - everyone will understand this!

This is a conformist and feudal society. There are few outward expressions of 'individual' behaviour or character. Emotions - feelings - actions are deliberately hidden and subdued.

Undoubtedly, these poor unfortunate westerners may have been unwittingly and inadvertently drawing attention to themselves - and from the wrong murderous quarters!

I hope the Thai cop hangs from the balls for this dreadful crime.

That's an interesting point, I'm not a "face painter" myself but I'd be interested to know the Thai perspective on this. Is it offensive here and if so, to what degree? There's an episode of Seinfeld that gives quite an accurate and humorous portrayal of face-painting in the West and maybe there is more significance to this in Thailand than many of us are aware of... Anyone know?

Secondly, I'd love to know the previous behaviour of the cop that led to him being arrested and released on bail prior to last nights tragic incident. Lets's hope this Drummond guy can continue to report as openly as possible, he's got bigger balls than me that's for sure and quite frankly (Chloe) I couldn't care which bars he drinks in when he's finished work.

Yes - I have a lot of respect for this guy. I remember his very important and honest reporting of the Katherine Horton case - amongst others.

[Foggy Bottom]

Where are all the other hacks.

Well, personally speaking, I've spent most of the day either reading this thread or rummaging in the understairs cupboard trying to find the kevlar.

....... I KNOW I put it in there sometime last year, but I'm blowed if I can find it now

(glances nervously at innocent-looking theerak watching TV)

[kat]

So far the Thai boyfriend is the only real HERO in all this. Why? Because he is sitting at her bedside and supporting her and confirming her experiences and discounting the police lies. The man deserves to be applauded.

Damian

Yes, but actually, I think Leo is they hero here. He actually lost his life by his first instinct to protect her, and not himself. I think the Thai guy is very brave to sit by her side and corroborate her story, though. If all rings true about this story, he is in extreme danger. But, we haven't sorted the motive yet.

A truly shocking case.

"Leo just said, 'Nobody hits her' and he pushed (the man) and he fell down. When he got back up he had a gun."

Leo shouted at him, 'You can't hit her!' and pushed him away from us. Then the man went to his motorbike and got his gun

A discrepency in her story. Minor, but lawyers look for these kinds of things to discredit witnesses.

Yes, it is, and it's not minor if we are talking about premeditated murder, or the heat of the moment. I wondered about this discrepancy myself.

I don't think any of the involved parties are telling the whole truth. While the cop's story is obviously ridiculous, the girl's story that they were quietly walking and minding their own business only to have a Thai man jump out of the bushes and start punching her face for no reason doesn't seem likely either.

It was mentioned somewhere that the girl had painted her face? Probably wrong color of the day which might have upset the policeman.

I know monday is yellow shirt wearing day but no clue what's the deal with face paint. Sometimes you see thai women on the street with white paint or cream on their face but I've never seen any other color. Maybe the girl had painted her face yellow who knows.

Best to send Andrew Drummond to investigate this angle.

I read earlier on in the first articles that her face was painted red. I have never heard of face painting as being offensive to Thai culture, but maybe it's because it's never come up. Along the lines of motive, this is of course speculation, but this couple was obviously the source of gossip due to the stories that came out after the shooting, and it's inevitable if she was involved with a Thai boyfriend. Did the cop get riled up due to gossip, and a perceived affront to a fellow Thai guy, by this woman entertaining a farang ex-boyfriend in his presence, something that most typical Thai men like the cop would find deeply offensive? He walked out of the restaurant and punched a woman in her head, something that is rare as a random occurrence even among drunk Thai men. He would've targeted the guy first, but targeted the woman. And, as others have mentioned, he walked with a Thai person present, and didn't say anything in Thai?

Don't know, but there are pieces still missing here on motive.

[Foggy Bottom]

I read earlier on in the first articles that her face was painted red. I have never heard of face painting as being offensive to Thai culture, but maybe it's because it's never come up.

Don't know, but there are pieces still missing here on motive.

Face painting is quite common in traditional Thai theatre - Likay for example, or the "tourism spectacular" ramiyana extravaganzas. Perhaps there's some unknown cultural taboo against painting the face outside of the theatre? That said, I do know children in Chiangers have often arrived home from kindergarden and junior schools with painted faces, and I think (but am not sure if I'm remembering correctly) I have seen face painting stalls at local fairs and festivals (might be mixing it up with something from western TV though).

Perhaps some Thai readers would like to comment on this angle that's been little discussed in this thread?

[kat]

Irrespective of position, an accidendent can change the way the legal system applies the law.

Bail will be given in most cases where an accident occurs.

In this case the shooter claims the gun was fired accidentaly.

One shot fired hitting no targets - accidental.

Two shots fired hittig no targets - accidental - maybe.

Three shots fired no targets hit - not accidental any more.

Three shots fired all hiting the targets - Now way. Going to have a hard time justifying this.

The fact the he was a cop and has been trained to use a weapon makes hs case worse.

In most countries. Prehaps the officals would do well to re-consider thier bail decision.

There are more facts in this case to be considered in court before punishment is handed out if any.

For every ones sake may justice be carried out.

What you have missed is that bail is automatically granted to police charged with any crime except murdering other police or somehow causing grave offence to a senior policeman or other very influential Thai. They are allowed to use their position as surety and don't need to post any cash or assets. The police know perfectly well that none of the three shots were fired by accident and they don't share our outrage at this heinous crime against foreigners with no influential connections. None of that wouldn't have entered into their thinking in recommending bail to the court. What they were thinking about is how to cover up this embarrassing crime which might cause trouble for the station commander and other colleagues and how to prevent any more nasty facts surfacing about their activities as a result of the unwelcome spotlight on their small precinct. The best way to do this is close ranks and let the killer roam around freely intimidating witnesses and concocting his story. You have seen this over and over again if you have been here for any length of time. Ask Chalerm how it is done by a top practioner. He may soon be in charge of the police again, so his view is particularly relevant.

You may also be interested to know (from Khunying Pornthip, the spiky haired pathologist) that most provinces don't have any forensic pathologists at all. Most of them are in Bangkok and the surrounding provinces, so you can be sure that there aren't any in Mae Hong Song. Murders are attended by a police doctor untrained in pathology whose job is to support the police version. Often they don't even attend the crime scene at all, particularly in the deep South, and just file a fake report. Don't expect justice - just the least onerous outcome that the police can engineer for their boy.

Thanks for that Arkady. This is what I was alluding to earlier in the thread.

Sincere condolences to the bereaved family. Having seen many crazy farangs for 4 years in Thailand I am sometimes sceptical about there account of certain events, not anymore.

About 3 years ago myself and a friend were having a late night swift one ,at about 02.30, in a rather tame go go bar. There was us 2 and a thai customer,who was getting all the attention from the 4 young dancers.

When we looked more closely we could see the customer was a policeman in a white t shirt and brown pants(undercover). The pretty young girls smelt our wallets and paid less attention to the policeman and more to us. This understanderbly enraged the copper to a point where he put his hand on his hip above his gun. A gesture we brushed off unwisely.

The next moment one of the dancers said' you go now'. Turning around to see who we had offended it was a shock , to put it midly, to see the copper's revolver now on the table in front of him.

Believe me adrenalin leaves a hel_l of a stain in your shorts. Walking out we tried not to make eye contact but the to$$er was laughing his arse off at us and waving his finger in a gun gesture.

Still having a little testosterone in us we sat quietly outside finishing our beers. About 10 minutes later the c..t walked, sorry fell out, to his car with his crown whisky in hand.

The worrying thing about all this is that stories like these will be occuring tonite.

If the policeman is guilty of murdering the canadian and trying to murder his friend the leader of this country should urge for the death penalty in the same way Thaksin did for the immigrant workers who killed the welsh girl in Samui

Send a message to everybody, policeman must answer for their crimes. The next BIB will think twice before murdering innocent people

That is an incredible story. I have my own stories, as do many others. There are good stories as well, but only in LOS do we think good police stories are special.

[Soph]

With regards to the face painting, in the photo provided in the Andrew Drummond report, you can see some dots above her left eye - looks like face painting in the kind of full moon party style, maybe not a colour such as red as some people are speculating. If this is the case then if would have been fairly subtle no?

[bulmercke]

So far the Thai boyfriend is the only real HERO in all this. Why? Because he is sitting at her bedside and supporting her and confirming her experiences and discounting the police lies. The man deserves to be applauded.

Damian

Yes, but actually, I think Leo is they hero here. He actually lost his life by his first instinct to protect her, and not himself. I think the Thai guy is very brave to sit by her side and corroborate her story, though. If all rings true about this story, he is in extreme danger. But, we haven't sorted the motive yet.

A truly shocking case.

"Leo just said, 'Nobody hits her' and he pushed (the man) and he fell down. When he got back up he had a gun."

Leo shouted at him, 'You can't hit her!' and pushed him away from us. Then the man went to his motorbike and got his gun

A discrepency in her story. Minor, but lawyers look for these kinds of things to discredit witnesses.

Yes, it is, and it's not minor if we are talking about premeditated murder, or the heat of the moment. I wondered about this discrepancy myself.

I don't think any of the involved parties are telling the whole truth. While the cop's story is obviously ridiculous, the girl's story that they were quietly walking and minding their own business only to have a Thai man jump out of the bushes and start punching her face for no reason doesn't seem likely either.

It was mentioned somewhere that the girl had painted her face? Probably wrong color of the day which might have upset the policeman.

I know monday is yellow shirt wearing day but no clue what's the deal with face paint. Sometimes you see thai women on the street with white paint or cream on their face but I've never seen any other color. Maybe the girl had painted her face yellow who knows.

Best to send Andrew Drummond to investigate this angle.

I read earlier on in the first articles that her face was painted red. I have never heard of face painting as being offensive to Thai culture, but maybe it's because it's never come up. Along the lines of motive, this is of course speculation, but this couple was obviously the source of gossip due to the stories that came out after the shooting, and it's inevitable if she was involved with a Thai boyfriend. Did the cop get riled up due to gossip, and a perceived affront to a fellow Thai guy, by this woman entertaining a farang ex-boyfriend in his presence, something that most typical Thai men like the cop would find deeply offensive? He walked out of the restaurant and punched a woman in her head, something that is rare as a random occurrence even among drunk Thai men. He would've targeted the guy first, but targeted the woman. And, as others have mentioned, he walked with a Thai person present, and didn't say anything in Thai?

Don't know, but there are pieces still missing here on motive.

kat - you could be onto something here. She was definitely a pivotal factor in this episode.

[niteowl]

There's been a lot of interest in this thread, but no one has stated the obvious. I'd like to point out some known facts (i.e., facts that Carly Reisig and the police have both stated) in italics, with some comments of my own, not in italics.

1. Two people were shot in the street, by an off-duty police officer. They desperately needed medical attention.

And what was the officer's reaction? Did he call an ambulance? Send for a doctor? Notify his station that he required assistance? No.

2. He ran away.

Can anyone think of a good reason for him to run away? Did he think the night air would be good for them? Would any compassionate person, innocent of wrongdoing, have acted in that manner? No? Then, why run away? That’s easy.

3. He’s a police officer. He knows when a crime has been committed. And he didn’t want to be anywhere near the scene of the crime when the police arrived.

Maybe those few facts don’t tell the whole story. But, they’re enough to decide who the victims were, and who the criminal was.

[siamesekitty]

I read earlier on in the first articles that her face was painted red. I have never heard of face painting as being offensive to Thai culture, but maybe it's because it's never come up.

Don't know, but there are pieces still missing here on motive.

Face painting is quite common in traditional Thai theatre - Likay for example, or the "tourism spectacular" ramiyana extravaganzas. Perhaps there's some unknown cultural taboo against painting the face outside of the theatre? That said, I do know children in Chiangers have often arrived home from kindergarden and junior schools with painted faces, and I think (but am not sure if I'm remembering correctly) I have seen face painting stalls at local fairs and festivals (might be mixing it up with something from western TV though).

Perhaps some Thai readers would like to comment on this angle that's been little discussed in this thread?

There's no taboo on face-painting that I know of, and the apparent lack of motive is what's boggling my mind about the whole thing!

The only think that I can think of that could be offensive about the face painting is any actual pictures or writing that could have been painted. For example, picture of Buddha? picture of His Majesty the King? (both these could be deemed too "high" to be painted on a person's face) A rude word or phrase?

[Burninhell]

Am I doing the wrong drugs or WHAT??

Facts....

Canadian man dead....GF says unprovoked, backed up by Thai BF...Cop admits to the execution in typical channel 7 Thai drama style BS.

What the Fark is all the nit picking about???

All the what ifs?..how about's?...maybe's?.....Christ..!!

To ALL the senior cops out there.......the whole world is watching, we are NOT stupid...you have lost SO much face that it's a wonder you have a mouth to open to keep drinking ya whiskey.

Put the word out...hunt this rabid mongrel dog to the ground and nail him.....justice done, money saved, eye for an eye, do as the Romans do bla bal bla, save yaselves the unofficial pension and pocket it.....just take the Farker out for God's sake.

Over and out.

Burnie.

[bulmercke]

Am I doing the wrong drugs or WHAT??

Facts....

Canadian man dead....GF says unprovoked, backed up by Thai BF...Cop admits to the execution in typical channel 7 Thai drama style BS.

What the Fark is all the nit picking about???

All the what ifs?..how about's?...maybe's?.....Christ..!!

To ALL the senior cops out there.......the whole world is watching, we are NOT stupid...you have lost SO much face that it's a wonder you have a mouth to open to keep drinking ya whiskey.

Put the word out...hunt this rabid mongrel dog to the ground and nail him.....justice done, money saved, eye for an eye, do as the Romans do bla bal bla, save yaselves the unofficial pension and pocket it.....just take the Farker out for God's sake.

Over and out.

Burnie.

Yes - Burninhell - let's not lose track of what this whole terrible murderous thing is about.

Scum.

[kat]

Yeah, but who's going to do it - the Thai cops and justice system??? That's what all this nitpicking is about.

*I was going to add something about how I would like to see murderous cops dealt with, but not appropriate at the time.

Edited January 8, 2008 by kat

[Burninhell]

Hey...I kinda just got my arse kicked for my prior post. I apologise if it offended anyone and I suppose in hindsight it was deserved...so I am sooooooo sorry.

But really...???

How the hel_l is this gunna end with all the previous experiences and knowledge of the posters on this remarkable forum.....

I'm sorry...I'm angry at the loss of a young life for NO reason.....!!!

RIP my friend and condolences to the family.

Burnie.

[kat]

No offense at all, Burnie. I totally hear you. We're screwed, because in effect, these are murders by the state: police, police bureaucracy, Thai justice. I just try to imagine a different script in my head for justice, as a coping mechanism because you won't find it in waking life here.

[sabaijai]

I spoke with two eyewitnesses on the scene in Pai, including the owner of the roadside restaurant. Both said the couple were definitely fighting and that Daeng (restaurant owner) asked the policeman to try and stop the fight. Both descriptions of events matched the latest Bangkok Post report, below.

Reisig is allegedly known in Pai for aggressive behaviour towards both resident farangs and Thais, had struck a policeman (the same policeman?) in Be-Bop Bar a few weeks earlier, and was seen fighting with her Thai boyfriend at the most recent Pittalew party. Another related point -- Feun, the Thai boyfriend, had been arrested for drug possession in front of the Pai police station a few months ago. This isn't to say the shootings were in any way deserved, just that there may have been personal history issues involved.

Policeman faces murder charge

CHEEWIN SATTHA

Chiang Mai _ A policeman who shot dead a Canadian tourist and wounded his girlfriend in Mae Hong Son's Pai district was yesterday charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder. Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai Dechawiwat was released on bail, said the chief of the Provincial Police Region 5, Pol Lt-Gen Theerasak Chookitkhun.

The shooting occurred on Sunday when Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai tried to break up an argument between the couple, Leo John Del Pinto and Carly Reisig, outside a restaurant after the man accused his girlfriend of having an affair with a Thai man.

The off-duty police officer said he was asked by the restaurant owner to help stop the argument.

Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai fled into hiding before turning himself in yesterday to fight the charges in court. He maintained it was an accident, telling investigators he was attacked during the scuffle and drew his gun to fire a warning shot.

He claimed the tourists tried to snatch the weapon from him and it accidentally went off. Del Pinto was hit twice and his girlfriend once. She was rushed to a hospital in Chiang Mai and treated for a wound to the right hip. Pol Lt-Gen Theerasak said Ms Reisig was still in shock and not ready for questioning.

No order to suspend Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai from work has been issued so far.

[meom]

I spoke with two eyewitnesses on the scene in Pai, including the owner of the roadside restaurant. Both said the couple were definitely fighting and that Daeng (restaurant owner) asked the policeman to try and stop the fight. Both descriptions of events matched the latest Bangkok Post report, below.

Reisig is allegedly known in Pai for aggressive behaviour towards both resident farangs and Thais, had struck a policeman (the same policeman?) in Be-Bop Bar a few weeks earlier, and was seen fighting with her Thai boyfriend at the most recent Pittalew party. Another related point -- Feun, the Thai boyfriend, had been arrested for drug possession in front of the polica station a few months ago. This isn't to say the shootings were in any way deserved, just that there may have been personal history issues involved.

What goes around comes around I guess.

[DamianMavis]

I am sorry. But CMON. The Thai roadside food vendor WATCHED THIS THAI COP MURDER ONE PERSON AND TRY TO MURDER ANOTHER, without a care in the world... THEN he is immediately released to go harass witnesses... UHM GEE. I dont know but if you were the roadside food vendor (broke as <deleted> and no power WHATSOEVER) would you contradict an assassin that was free to come by anytime and kill you for speaking against him? Or his gang of fellow officers? This is ridiculous..... how can they have a truthful investigation when witnesses can so easily be pressured, its ourageous. Bah I just get angrier and angrier thinking about it.

Damian

[bulmercke]

I spoke with two eyewitnesses on the scene in Pai, including the owner of the roadside restaurant. Both said the couple were definitely fighting and that Daeng (restaurant owner) asked the policeman to try and stop the fight. Both descriptions of events matched the latest Bangkok Post report, below.

Reisig is allegedly known in Pai for aggressive behaviour towards both resident farangs and Thais, had struck a policeman (the same policeman?) in Be-Bop Bar a few weeks earlier, and was seen fighting with her Thai boyfriend at the most recent Pittalew party. Another related point -- Feun, the Thai boyfriend, had been arrested for drug possession in front of the polica station a few months ago. This isn't to say the shootings were in any way deserved, just that there may have been personal history issues involved.

Policeman faces murder charge

CHEEWIN SATTHA

Chiang Mai _ A policeman who shot dead a Canadian tourist and wounded his girlfriend in Mae Hong Son's Pai district was yesterday charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder. Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai Dechawiwat was released on bail, said the chief of the Provincial Police Region 5, Pol Lt-Gen Theerasak Chookitkhun.

The shooting occurred on Sunday when Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai tried to break up an argument between the couple, Leo John Del Pinto and Carly Reisig, outside a restaurant after the man accused his girlfriend of having an affair with a Thai man.

The off-duty police officer said he was asked by the restaurant owner to help stop the argument.

Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai fled into hiding before turning himself in yesterday to fight the charges in court. He maintained it was an accident, telling investigators he was attacked during the scuffle and drew his gun to fire a warning shot.

He claimed the tourists tried to snatch the weapon from him and it accidentally went off. Del Pinto was hit twice and his girlfriend once. She was rushed to a hospital in Chiang Mai and treated for a wound to the right hip. Pol Lt-Gen Theerasak said Ms Reisig was still in shock and not ready for questioning.

No order to suspend Pol Sgt-Maj Uthai from work has been issued so far.

Come on!

Even if it's a domestic.....what 'big man' feels the need to draw a weapon.....and on top of that.....'must' execute summary executions on both of the rowing parties? Come on!

This piece of scum would be considered totally unprofessional and the laughing stock of the prcinct in both UK and US police forces.

[sabaijai]

With regards to the face painting, in the photo provided in the Andrew Drummond report, you can see some dots above her left eye - looks like face painting in the kind of full moon party style, maybe not a colour such as red as some people are speculating. If this is the case then if would have been fairly subtle no?

The marks seen on Carly's face in the photo are tattoos, not face paint.

[Foggy Bottom]

I am sorry. But CMON. The Thai roadside food vendor WATCHED THIS THAI COP MURDER ONE PERSON AND TRY TO MURDER ANOTHER, without a care in the world... THEN he is immediately released to go harass witnesses... UHM GEE. I dont know but if you were the roadside food vendor (broke as <deleted> and no power WHATSOEVER) would you contradict an assassin that was free to come by anytime and kill you for speaking against him? Or his gang of fellow officers? This is ridiculous..... how can they have a truthful investigation when witnesses can so easily be pressured, its ourageous. Bah I just get angrier and angrier thinking about it.

Damian

Beat me to it

[kat]

I spoke with two eyewitnesses on the scene in Pai, including the owner of the roadside restaurant. Both said the couple were definitely fighting and that Daeng (restaurant owner) asked the policeman to try and stop the fight. Both descriptions of events matched the latest Bangkok Post report, below.

Reisig is allegedly known in Pai for aggressive behaviour towards both resident farangs and Thais, had struck a policeman (the same policeman?) in Be-Bop Bar a few weeks earlier, and was seen fighting with her Thai boyfriend at the most recent Pittalew party. Another related point -- Feun, the Thai boyfriend, had been arrested for drug possession in front of the polica station a few months ago. This isn't to say the shootings were in any way deserved, just that there may have been personal history issues involved.

What goes around comes around I guess.

Oh, really? So, you think "aggressive" behavior as reported by heresy in a small community of Thais and who knows what foreigners is ground for murder? Unbelievable, and not hard to understand why Thailand has its well-deserved seedy reputation when we hear from expats like you.

I am sorry. But CMON. The Thai roadside food vendor WATCHED THIS THAI COP MURDER ONE PERSON AND TRY TO MURDER ANOTHER, without a care in the world... THEN he is immediately released to go harass witnesses... UHM GEE. I dont know but if you were the roadside food vendor (broke as <deleted> and no power WHATSOEVER) would you contradict an assassin that was free to come by anytime and kill you for speaking against him? Or his gang of fellow officers? This is ridiculous..... how can they have a truthful investigation when witnesses can so easily be pressured, its ourageous. Bah I just get angrier and angrier thinking about it.

Damian

Beat me to it

And me. I am not in any way disputing whether or not she was a nice person, maybe complained about an overcharge on her bill one too many times, maybe was a bit too abrasive here and there, or stared down a couple of odious King-of-the-Jungle white sexpats, it is important to understand the cop's motive, but none of it will excuse how Leo del Pinto was murdered in cold blood by a cop who is now out on bail, and will most likely get away with it.

[sabaijai]

As someone acquainted with the principal characters involved in the case, as well as the witnesses, I find the third-party eyewitness reports more reliable-sounding than any other testimony yet available. The two Thais I spoke to didn't seem afraid at all. But if they do have reason to fear for their lives, why isn't Reisig similarly fearful, since her story diverges most (from that of third-party witnesses and the cop)?

BTW the policemen had his weapon with him because he had just finished his shift. Pai residents who know the cop say it's highly unlikely he would fire unless provoked. Unlike the victims, he apparently has no history of violence in Pai (till now, obviously, and of course the shootings were not warranted in any event). Still there's more to this story than what's coming to us via quickly filed newspaper reports.

Regardless, belligerence or violence towards cops anywhere in the world is risky behaviour.

[aaaaaa]

Pattaya is totally controlled from top to bottom by very powerful criminal elements.

In fact the whole country is pretty much ruled by criminals.

wow ! easy, dude ! you may get holidayed here on TV by touching such matters !

from other hand - I think no need to single out Thailand as such. pretty much same things, only on much bigger scale are going on even in big developed countries. Thailand is merely "follows the trend". nothing extraordinary.

NOTE for "cheer-leaders" : here I am NOT advocating criminals or disagreeing about the need for justice etc. only commenting on ONE particular point in ONE only post by Mobi. so, please do not crucify or brand me as evil !

[DamianMavis]

As someone acquainted with the principal characters involved in the case, as well as the witnesses, I find the third-party eyewitness reports more reliable-sounding than any other testimony yet available. The two Thais I spoke to didn't seem afraid at all. But if they do have reason to fear for their lives, why isn't Reisig similarly fearful, since her story diverges most (from that of third-party witnesses and the cop)?

BTW the policemen had his weapon with him because he had just finished his shift. Pai residents who know the cop say it's highly unlikely he would fire unless provoked. Unlike the victims, he apparently has no history of violence in Pai (till now, obviously, and of course the shootings were not warranted in any event). Still there's more to this story than what's coming to us via quickly filed newspaper reports.

Hmm are you serious? Asking why a FALANG born and bred in Canada is not going to be easily cowed and pressured by the thought of Thai police coming to kill her? Thais KNOW they are at the mercy of thier police, ESPECIALLY the poor ones. Falangs have a sense of justice and morality that most Thais do not understand, not because they are morally corrupt but because it simply doesnt work that way in their culture. If I saw my friend get murdered before my eyes and I was hospitalised I would be thinking purely about justice and righteousness. But that is how I was raised in Canada. Even if I was fearful, I would not allow a murderer to get off out of fear, I would be willing to further risk my life and stand by the truth, but maybe that is just me. And possibly, Reisig.

Please if you know Reisig and the cop personally like you said, tell us about them. I would not accept what the witnesses said wholeheartedly due to the fear of retribution from the powers around them, but if you know the killer and vicitim I would like to know about that and would be willing to accept your experiences with them.

Damian

Edited January 8, 2008 by DamianMavis