Dual Citizenship And Entering/leaving Thailand

[Maestro]

...There is no reference to name on ticket in the replies...Depending which end she buys her tickets she will check in for one of the flights with passport and ticket in different names. Has this ever been a problem?

1. At check-in in the UK, show both passports. Thai passport serves to explain the name on the ticket and that no visa is needed for Thailand.

2. At UK immigration, when leaving the UK, show UK passport, if required also boarding pass. If required, show also Thai passport to explain the name on the ticket.

3. At Thai immigration, show only the Thai passport.

No problem.

--

Maestro

[haadyai]

When was your last trip? As you suggested, I like to use Thai passport both entering and leaving Thailand. However, as I mentioned my last trip back in Feb 2007, somehow the immigration officer asked me for the document for enter the US. I showed my green card as I had one at the time. Now I have a US passport. I don't know if he asked me because I stayed for 5 weeks in Thailand. This trip I will be staying for about 2 weeks.

thanks.

[samran]

When was your last trip? As you suggested, I like to use Thai passport both entering and leaving Thailand. However, as I mentioned my last trip back in Feb 2007, somehow the immigration officer asked me for the document for enter the US. I showed my green card as I had one at the time. Now I have a US passport. I don't know if he asked me because I stayed for 5 weeks in Thailand. This trip I will be staying for about 2 weeks.

thanks.

I come and go from Thailand all the time, using a Thai passport which doesn't have a visa for my destination country. No one ever asks. Last time I travelled was 14 December, returning on 4th Jan, prior to that was a trip in November, all which required a passport swap.

If they do ask you for a visa, show them your other passport. Odds are, they won't. I've got more than 20 entry and exits my current Thai passport alone, yet no stamps for any western country, which all are in my Australian passport.

[chinadarling]

enter thailand on your thai passoprt

enter us on your us passport

less info you give the better

(I am a dual citizen too and it saves headaches)

[crocodilexp]

What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

Be careful. General rule is, if you're a citizen of country X, always use your country X passport to enter X, even if you have other passports. If you enter X on your other passport, possible hassles range from stay limitations (30 days in Thailand), to losing your citizenship (if you enter U.S. with a non-U.S. passport).

Not sure what Thai law is, but I assume they'd just shrug it off and say mai bpen rai if they find out you're a dual Thai/U.S. citizen entering on a U.S. passport.

However, if you're a U.S. citizen, and enter U.S. on a non-U.S. passport (not easy for Thais, but can happen if your other passport is e.g. German and you don't need a visa), you'll be in big trouble, possibly up to losing the U.S. citizenship.

One possible exception is if you're traveling to volatile place (e.g. Bosnia during the war, or Iraq now) where you might want some protection that a western passport might offer.

Edited January 14, 2008 by crocodilexp

[raylo]

You can not normally switch passports on a land border crossing from Thailand as entry/exit stamps are checked. Always enter and exit using the same passport.

If you enter Thailand on a Thai passport and leave with a Thai passport but airline ticket is to the US and you have no visa; you show the airline your US passport. It is done every day and nothing sinister about it.

In context with what I answered to Crossy.

1/ Immigration control do random checks for visas to the country nominated on the ticket. They frequently do it to Thais. Due diligence

2/ You can change passports bewteen exit and entry on land crossings. Easily done and legal. Only ever had one stamp check. New passport - some country had to give the first incoming stamp.

[lopburi3]

I don't know what land crossing you are using but in my experience they carefully check that you have an exit stamp as the rule is you must enter/exit another country and they make sure you do. Otherwise many border runners would not pay for the visa to enter other country and just make a u-turn inside Thailand.

[Arkady]

...The Thai Nationality Act doesn't expressly prohibit dual nationality but it does state clearly that use of another nationality by some one over the age of 20 constitutes grounds for revocation of Thai nationality

You are reading something into Section 14 of the Nationality Act that is not there.

Section 14. A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his father, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph 2 is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

If, after consideration of the said intention, the Minister is of opinion that there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father or a foreign nationality, he shall grant permission, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.

See? Nothing about grounds for revocation of Thai nationality. The Thai national with dual nationality does not make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after turning 20 and there is no problem.

At any rate, I always read “if he wishes to retain his other nationality” as relating to his dealings with the Thai government institutions, ie if wants to use benefits that his other nationality would give him in registering a business in Thailand, etc.

--

Maestro

I stand partially corrected. The Act doesn't seem to contain any provision for revoking nationality of those who were born Thai with Thai fathers. There are only provisions applying to those who obtain Thai nationality by virtue of being born in Thailand to alien fathers (Section 17) and naturalized Thais (Section 19). The former are probably small in number as I assume they are largely people who were born in Thailand to foreign parents before, I think 1973, when that loophole for citizenship was largely closed and the those who, since then, have been born in Thailand to foreign parents who both have permanent residency who are probably largely hill tribe people. Correct me, if I am wrong again, but Section 19, Clauses 2 and 5 seem pretty clear cut in providing for the revocation of nationality of naturalized Thais who are ostensibly using another nationality or have lived abroad without a residence in Thailand for five years. The Thai-American I referred who flies to the US via Hong Kong to avoid disclosing his US passort to Thai Immigration is a naturalized Thai.

"Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

(1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;

(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;

(5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;

(6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12, paragraph two and the Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, shall submit the matter to the King for information."

[samran]

Arkady - all interesting points. The wording is indeed how you state and I know you've been around the traps for a while on this issue.

The problem I have in understanding the rules though is that they are not being enforced in any way. We've seen others here (dbrenn, chatlette, an aunt of mine swiss/thai) who have been naturalised as Thai's but haven't had their other citizenship status questioned.

My thinking is that the end of the day, rules such as section 19 maybe deemed discriminatory under the constitution (at least the pre-coup one!) and may not be enforceable given you'd end up with the situation where some are allowed to have it and others not?

[Arkady]

Arkady - all interesting points. The wording is indeed how you state and I know you've been around the traps for a while on this issue.

The problem I have in understanding the rules though is that they are not being enforced in any way. We've seen others here (dbrenn, chatlette, an aunt of mine swiss/thai) who have been naturalised as Thai's but haven't had their other citizenship status questioned.

My thinking is that the end of the day, rules such as section 19 maybe deemed discriminatory under the constitution (at least the pre-coup one!) and may not be enforceable given you'd end up with the situation where some are allowed to have it and others not?

Yes, and the wording is problematic because it seems to imply that citizenship passes through a father which is no longer the case, since Thai women can now freely pass their citizenship to children they have with foreign fathers, even if not born in Thailand. On the other hand I think it is quite common for countries to reserve the right to revoke citizenship from naturalized citizens, even if they can't do it to those who are citizens by birth. Current interpretation by Immigration and the Foreign Ministry is to treat naturalized Thais the same as born Thais, despite the nasty looking provisions in the Act, which is good. I think it is a matter of choice for naturalized Thais whether they want to err on the side of caution to protect their hard earned citizenship, in case the climate changes in future, or go for convenience.

Hopefully the Thai concerns over dual Thai-Malaysian nationals in the Deep South will never escalate into knee jerk measures against dual nationals in general. At any rate to be effective in dealing with the situation there, Thailand would need to amend the Act to prohibit use of another nationality by born Thais which may be a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, the situation doesn't seem to improve down there, nationalism is in fashion these days and logic is not always a key consideration.