Scared Me

[Coffee Dude]

I think you should give that same advice to the people who are attacking me.

People aren't attacking you personally, Pudgi, they are attacking your personal choice to tell everyone who doesn't view things with your same puritanical projection of life that their personal choices are stupid and irresponsible. You can take risks in life with reasonable safety as long as you take those risks with the dangers and safeguards in mind. (sky diving, scuba diving, going to bars)

I am not insinuating in any way that this was K's fault. What happened to K was not a result of his choice of risks only his underestimation of those risks. He obviously was surprised by this, hence, the thread to warn others of the risk. The same thing could happen to someone sitting in Mickey D's. If someone wants to drop a drug on you will get a drug dropped on you.

Yes, you are right, prostitutes only want your money (what's wrong with a young woman though?). I don't think that really surprises anyone. Yes, there can be "shady characters" waiting to take advantage in some way of over-indulged patrons in places like Nana. But from the info posted here, alcohol and BGs were not required to make this drug effective.

Take the heads up from K and watch out for yourself at all times. It could happen to you at the bowling ally or even church.

Thanks again Kringle for the heads up.

Coffee!!!

[Up2U]

Here is an article on 'date-rape drugs in UK' from the Guardian today :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,...1300147,00.html

Seems I spend as much time reading the Grauniad as I do reading Thai Visa - don't tell me to get a life - I do all this while at work.

(Prospective employers please ignore this post )

[Up2U]

Live and let live should be the rule on web-sites such as this.

Expressing an opinion, whatever it may be (within reason) is OK, but personal attacks on other posters, their way of life, the fact that the OP was trying to warn other people of some of the things that are happening in the big wide world and so on is just not on.

Up2U, if you truly believe what you're saying, take a look at this:

Look Mr Fatcanteloupe Fvuckwit, virtually nobody is agreeing with your brand of sanctomonius, self-satisfied, egocentric, half-baked, condescending, insulting crap.

Aren't you being a little hyopcritcal by criticizing me for personal attacks, but not scolding people like plachon?

Admit it, you think it's perfectly OK for someone on YOUR SIDE of an argument to attack someone on the other side. But if the target of that attack gives some back, you start getting sanctimonious and pious.

Like I said:

Whatever....

When you start doling out your stern admonishments to the people who are attacking ME, I'll actually buy your sincerity on this point. But right now, I don't.

My argument is with people who open the flame - much more than those who retaliate.

But I see no reason for personal abuse - whomsoever may be abuser / abusee.

And that applies in real life as well as the virtual life (????) some people have on the net.

[Up2U]

And sorry - I hadn't read the last couple of pages because the topic had drifted from Kringles original subject into arcane realms of who-abuses-who, and why / why not.

Kindergarten stuff that I usually ignore.

[bkkmadness]

Aren't you being a little hyopcritcal by criticizing me for personal attacks, but not scolding people like plachon?

Admit it, you think it's perfectly OK for someone on YOUR SIDE of an argument to attack someone on the other side. But if the target of that attack gives some back, you start getting sanctimonious and pious.

No, that's not correct at all. I believe this forum is for discussion and I think we have a fair discussion going so I continued it with you on a 1 on 1 basis. The people that were mouthing off too rudely and physically threatening you were idiotic and they don't deserve to make a discussion with so I chose to ignore them, I will not get invloved with all that IM A BIG MAN stuff, especially over the internet, lol, easy to threaten to attack someone over the net right, very stupid.

I made the point with you about personal attacks because I see you have some intelligence and I was hoping to sway your opinion on something, trying to sway these other people's (who were being over the top rude, and wanting to attack you) opinions is a waste of time because they don't have the sense to do it.

I think for all the correct things you said you should have avoided mentioning the rights and wrongs of this guy going to a gogo bar just because his married because that's his business, and I wanted to keep it to the topic we was discussing which was more along the lines of the apparent and hidden dangers of some places.

And yes, I did think you could have been more sensitive and it's probably this lack of sensitivity in your posts that has fuelled the hard core keyboard warrior lynch mob to jump in. Too be perfectly honest if the discussion is going to go like this as I see many on this forum go then there's no point me continuing it, just becomes a waste of my time. Your'll notice from my posts I think that I have been polite throughout, and made some fair points, maybe it gets heated sometimes but that's what happens with discussions right.

Maybe I should have started swearing, using large CAPITAL letters to show how strong I can shout and threatened to kick your f****** head in, but that would have made me a complete w***** so I didn't. People like that don't deserve a response.

[chanchao]

Hear hear.

[wolf5370]

Charles Sobhraj Where is he now? I must admit I've not seen him around Nana for a while, nor Soi Cowboy.

He's doing life in Nepal for some murders he did there in 75. For those that do not know, he did a long stretch in India and was deported back to France in 97ish. He was also resposible for the '75 'bikin muders' in Pattaya. He's famous for drugging, robbing and killing tourists. Hope he's having fun now in the Nepalese jail as a 'tourist'!

Pudgy, I think we all agree that some places are more dangerous than others - becuase of the high population of gullable tourists and the like (not talking about you here Kringle) and the money, expesive jewlery, watches, mobiles, cameras and gold cards they seem to want to lug around with them each night.

I would agree that it is best to take more care in these places than normal.

I would go as far to suggest that go-go bars are best visited in small groups - especially in these areas.

If you are visiting a bar to 'watch life go by with a Chang in your mit', then I suggest take a mate or the Mrs (probably safer with a mate when going to the go-go bars - steamed sausage for breakfast? )

If you are after 'eating out' (taken from the "go out to get an appetite, eat at home!" quip), then I suggest finding a like minded soul and heading off together. Easier to get a chat going then too.

What we can't agree with is that a crime is the victim's fault for any reason at all. Sure, it's less likely to happen in a 5-star hotel lobby bar, than a go-go bar, and precautions can and possibly should be made, but it's still not the vistim's fault that s/he was a subject of that crime. My Thai mother-in-law once shocked me; 2 Scandinavian girls walked by inappropriately dressed (tight shorts showing bare cheek and boob-tubes revealing ample cleavage and midriff) - late teens/early 20's blonde and very pretty - MIL said "They DESERVED to get raped looking like that" - I nearly fell off my chair! Sounds analagous to me.

My wife is paranoid about me having my drink spiked. She 'minds' the drinks when I go to the loo at a Pizzahut in a mall! She is also afraid that some girl will come up and "touch" me in the market and I will suddenly follow her and give her all my possessions, or have a relationship with her - kind of voodoo/spell. I tell her that only 'believers' fall for such nonsense, but she has a freind that it happened too, so I'm a target (in her eyes).

Like you, Pudgy, I do not go whoring, nor do I go to go-go bars. I do, however, not condem those that do. They have a right to do anything that is within the law, and currently these go-go bars are legal (although not everything they do is legal - upstairs parlours, ping-pong, contraband booze etc). If there are no victims, I am happy - BG makes money, club makes money, guy gets a smile on his face (forced prostitution is very rare in LOS now (not worth the hastle, not exactly a shortage of willing employees!), and mostly in Thai-only parlours or in the border towns catering for kiddie-shaggers ).

I would be scared of 'going out to get an appetite, eat at home' philosophy, I may get hungry while I'm out, and may be less palatable than I thought at the time (Kee-babs come to mind for some reason - I inetded the initial Kee! ). Better to stay out of temptation's way if you are not, indeed, 'eating out'. "A wafer thin mint, sir?" (Monty Python' meaning of life - Mr Creasote)

It happened to me in Turkey at an all-inclusive holiday complex bar. The drink never left my hand - I was standing and holding it (beachside bar warm late everning) - Barman is my best guess. It was a free drink (All inclusive as I said), but it was only my third. I drank about half of it (Vodka and coke) and woke up next morning. Luckily my father was there and he brought me back. I am allergic to a base drug used in most Uppers and date drugs, so it has a different, but extreame reaction on me. I do not pass out, I act like a typical drunken 20 something only hyperly so. I did not collapse, I (apparantly - no memory) went into a restaurant and ate the flowers on each of the tables; danced with a girl, then picked her up by her head (not hair) and spun her around - she was not hurt; chased some giant of a scotsman around his own room for having the audacity to complain about my singing outside his room; nearly got arresting for punching a wall mounted street light off the wall (apparantly it was no mean task and took several very hard swipes) - it fused the whole road; and probably more. Spoilt my holiday completely as I was so embarrassed when my Dad told me what had happened.

So I do feel for you Kringle, and I am sure you have learnt what lesson there was in that nasty business for you - hey, you woke up (with both kidneys ), so may be it was someone somewhere giving you a little warning - and a little pain to help you remember it.

PS: One cig burn to check you were out, the rest just for fun - I would think. Nice people, huh?

PPS: Sorry for the long post and probably crap spelling (can't be arsed to go back and check it), got carried away.

[royar2002]

Look, I may have an unpopular opinion, and I may seem to be coming down hard on a guy who was a "victim", but if you look at what I'm saying and what everyone else is saying, essentially we agree:  Nana is a bad place, and should probably be avoided. 

Now, this guy said he was a retiree, so therefore he should be old enough by now to have learned this life lesson already, but apparently he hasn't.  And I don't believe in cutting adults slack for making mistakes that boys make.  He should have realized by now that a seedy go-go bar in the prostitution nexus of Bangkok is not an appropriate place for a grown, married man.

Maybe on these forums, that idea is radical and unpopular, but trust me, in NORMAL society, that's a pretty mainstream notion.  So if I come off a bit harsh, it's because I believe that a grown man should know better by now and if he doesn't then SOMEBODY needs to knock some sense (virtually) into him.

You guys all want to pat him on the back and say, "Aw, poor baby".  Well, I don't believe in coddling grown men.  And many of you want him to go back and find the place that did this too him (presumably so you can avoid it).  Go back!?!?  Why should he go back there!?!?!?  This lesson should have taught him that he should avoid those places and stick to doing things that are appropriate for grown, married men (like hanging out with his wife).

So just because I'm the only one who's not kissing his boo-boos and encouraging more negative behavior, I get jumped on and viciously attacked by other posters.

Whatever...

True! You have an unpopular opinion! Why is Nana a bad place. Do you have a personal bad experience from Nana? Nana is for grown people, married or not.

I am married and visit Nana when I stayed in Bangkok, not for sex but for fun and entertainment. Remember you are in Thailand. Phuket, Samui, Pattaya and every inch of Thailand can give you unwanted problem. So if Kringle is wrong, what about the two Brits who was killed after visit river Kwai today? What would you like to tell their family? That their went to a place more bad than Nana. What about the the farang who was killed in a peaceful place near Chiang Rai few weeks ago. Bad place for grown people? What about your own place, You feel safe. I think someone should knoch some sense in your head, so you understand that Thailand is Thailand. With your big mouth, you can be in more danger in your own "paradice" than Kringle was in Nana. So please.

Good luck Kringle!

[Pudgimelon]

If there are no victims, I am happy - BG makes money, club makes money, guy gets a smile on his face (forced prostitution is very rare in LOS now (not worth the hastle, not exactly a shortage of willing employees!), and mostly in Thai-only parlours or in the border towns catering for kiddie-shaggers ).

If you believe prostitution is a victim-less industry, start another thread and allow me to educate you on that topic. But bring an open mind and don't flame me for being puritanical.

[Pudgimelon]

My Thai mother-in-law once shocked me; 2 Scandinavian girls walked by inappropriately dressed (tight shorts showing bare cheek and boob-tubes revealing ample cleavage and midriff) - late teens/early 20's blonde and very pretty - MIL said "They DESERVED to get raped looking like that" - I nearly fell off my chair! Sounds analagous to me.

OK, when you put it that way, I see your point.

Just because a girl dresses like a tramp doesn't mean she "deserves" to get raped. After all, she could be a sweet college kid just out to have some "naughty", but innocent, fun on Halloween.

Likewise just because someone is a drunken farang in a go-go bar doesn't mean they "deserve" to get drugged, attacked and robbed.

I get that and perhaps my choice of wording was out of line.

I've got nothing personal against Kringle or anyone else who frequents Nana, Silom, or Khao San. However, we all know those places are s--t, and therefore, it just seems a bit foolish (to me) to hang out there.

Tourists and ex-pats tend to have more disposable income than the average Thai, but when you compare the Thai entertainment options to the ones available for farang, it looks like you guys are getting over charged to sit around in crummy dives.

Compare Rachada Soi 4 to Nana. The drinks aren't any more expensive, and yet over there they have great bands, hip crowds and great atmosphere. There are dozens of nice, clean clubs with a variety of decors and music, and there is no shortage of hot, HOT women.

True, it's a largely Thai scene, but that's my point. Compare it to Nana and you see just how bad things are for farang in this town. Nana is an unmitigated sh-thole. The bars are dirty and OLD, the seats are stained and ripped, the drinks are over-priced and watered-down (or worse, drugged), and most of the women are BUTT-UGLY, bitter, battle-hardened bargirls.... ugh.

The one time I went there, I was very disappointed. I went with a Thai friend on my first vacation to Thailand. He wanted to show me the "red light" district so I'd know what everyone was talking about. When we got there, I was like, "what? this is IT?? It's PATHETIC!" Based on all the internet-hype, I was expecting some grand Las Vegas style clubs with uber-hot women strolling around. The reality is a ramshackle collection of dingy, SMELLY little bars filled with hollow-eyed, stretch-marked, toothless hags.

We walked around for 15 minutes, and then I was like, "Let's get the ###### out of here, this is BORING", and I haven't been back since. When I was looking up travel information on Thailand, I had to wade through mountains of sex-tourism bulls--t to find the few webpages that actually dealt with the REAL Thailand. And all of those sex-tourism sites lauded Nana like it was a paradise of honey and milk. Phffft........

So I guess my main beef with people like Kringle and others isn't that they go to a sh-thole like Nana, it's that they don't seem to CARE that it's a sh-thole. Why should a grown man relegate himself to such a third-class lifestyle?? Why put up with the spiked drinks, RUDE touts, chili-breathed bargirls, and dirty, dingy little bars??

Those bar owners are making a MOUNTAIN of cash off Nana (just because the drinks are cheap by Western standards, doesn't mean they are cheap here). When are you people going to start demanding a better and SAFER environment???

You want to go to go-go bars, fine. I think you're stupid, but it's your life. But if you're going to waste your time and money in one of those places, why not demand a quality experience???

So maybe I shouldn't have said that Kringle deserved what he got. But he certainly should have expected it, and that alone should have warned him off going to a place like that.

With the money those people are making off Nana, they could have remodeled that place 15 times over. They could put in decent, comfortable seats, CLEANED THE FLOORS, and hired some proper entertainment (Playboy models as "featured dancers", etc...). Geesh, for the prices you guys are paying, you should be chilling out in some slick-looking place like "The Bed" or "Mystique" or a cool sport-bar themed place like "Hooters" back home.

You guys funnel money into the bank accounts of these bar owners and then you willingly accept the most god-awful conditions. "All part of the fun?" Bulls--t. There's no excuse for tolerating getting drugged and robbed. Where was the bar's security staff? Shouldn't they have protected a drunk customer? Yah, yah, I know, "This is Thailand", the universal excuse you guys give for putting up with crap that no self-respecting human being should have to tolerate.

So, you're right, saying Kringle deserved it is a bit harsh, so I'll tone down that rhetoric.

But I think you guys should start collectively demanding better service from the bars. Tell them that if they can't figure out how to install decent toilets and comfortable seats, you're going to take your business elsewhere. Tell them that if they can't think of something more interesting watch than a bunch of bored country girls doing a half-hearted butt-wiggle, you'll take your business elsewhere.

Of course, I realize that's never going to happen. You guys seem very content with your sh-tholes.

[britmaveric]

Pudgi- ok you don't like Nana that is clear. However I think its not a bad place to kill a few hours for a laff. I actually play billiards in the Sports Bar with my Gf there on numerous occasions. I've been to the gogo(s) and also beer bars without any hassles. I'm not really into the GoGo(s) I actually think they are quite boring, and yes you are correct about the prices, but thats BKK in general. (overpriced) I guess my point is Nana is a safe and fun place to go- would I get out of my mind sloshed there? ###### No- wouldn't do that anywhere in the world because that is when bad things happen. I do think its unfaire of you to say whoever goes to Nana deserves what they get. (ala robbed, beaten, drugged ect)

[triplegee]

So I guess my main beef with people like Kringle and others isn't that they go to a sh-thole like Nana, it's that they don't seem to CARE that it's a sh-thole.  Why should a grown man relegate himself to such a third-class lifestyle?? 

So that's it Pudgi - it's up to Kringle and anyone else as to what THEY want to do! Get off ya <deleted>' soapbox!

Most of what you say is in actual fact correct - where you step out of line is in bagging someone else choices. Who are we to question someone else's decisions in life? Stick to the facts and you MAY make sense.

[Ijustwannateach]

^but then he wouldn't have anything to rant and rave about, now, would he? Surprised he's let it go this early- ONLY ten pages of wasted bandwidth mostly responding to his monkey business.....

"Steven"

[sriracha john]

Your account seems to indicate some kind of drug that acted on you very quickly. I really wonder if it was something in your drink, or perhaps an aerosol sprayed in your face?

A further possibility unexplored up to now is a seizure or other medical condition which can certainly match up with the described situation with the resulting robbery and transporting across town and cigarette burns et al occuring after the fact.

[MadFrankie]

The one time I went there, I was very disappointed. I went with a Thai friend on my first vacation to Thailand. He wanted to show me the "red light" district so I'd know what everyone was talking about. When we got there, I was like, "what? this is IT?? It's PATHETIC!" Based on all the internet-hype, I was expecting some grand Las Vegas style clubs with uber-hot women strolling around. The reality is a ramshackle collection of dingy, SMELLY little bars filled with hollow-eyed, stretch-marked, toothless hags.

[simon43]

I have to agree with Pudgimelon!

I generally don't frequent the bar-scene. I pop into a Patpong go-go bar now and then to watch the Thai boxing.

But recently business has taken me down Nana-way. Now, I had never been to Nana Plaza, but I popped over there a few times last week in the hope of finding a nice bar and pretty girls.

Hmm, missed out on both counts I did stop for a drink or two in a couple of well-known bars, but all the girls working in both bars were plain as plain Jane.

To sum up, I would have more fun chasing the ice in my drink than chasing the girls in these bars

And why are most western guys so goddam fat?!! It makes the bars look like a reception class for Champney's Health Farm....

[meom]

I generally don't frequent the bar-scene. I pop into a Patpong go-go bar now and then to watch the Thai boxing.

Is that the same as buying Playboy for the articles?

[bkkmadness]

Pudgie,

You cant just say a whole area like khao san is shit, but rachada soi 4 is great, there are clubs in khao san just as good as rachada soi 4, the Club, Austins etc. , You shouldn't tar the whole street with one brush. You need to open your mind a bit more about these places. And I can't believe, after pages of nana bashing, you'd only been there once, hardly a broad amount of experiences to make a smart opinion on. I personally will go the plaza, the bed club, soi cowboy, rachada soi 4 depending on my mood at the time, which mates I'm with, all my own choice, don't bash it.

Really you might have been better off not moaning at Kringle in the first place and just made the point you wanted to make in a new topic WHY THAI BARS ARE BETTER/SAFER THAN FARANG PLACES?

We are all way off topic now, better finish here and start it in a new thread.

[meemiathai]

Based on all the internet-hype, I was expecting some grand Las Vegas style clubs with uber-hot women strolling around.

I have always thought so, that NEP was something close to LV! No? Sorry, never been to LV before. Sad.

I went with a Thai friend on my first vacation to Thailand. He wanted to show me the "red light" district so I'd know what everyone was talking about.

Well, my mom would say, what animal on earth would want to go to a red light district.

Compare Rachada Soi 4 to Nana. The drinks aren't any more expensive, and yet over there they have great bands, hip crowds and great atmosphere. There are dozens of nice, clean clubs with a variety of decors and music, and there is no shortage of hot, HOT women.

Just because you like Rachada better, you can't expect everyone to follow the same taste or to think the same. Just because you like golf better, you can't say that a football player deserves it if he had his leg broken, can you? Do you consider that being an open-minded way of thinking? You might feel easy going to Thais-frequented places, but some farangs might not. Some might want to go to places where there are more farangs and feel safer.

Talking about NEP, I don't like it either! I have only been there once. I feel that the way they do business degrades women. But for others going there, it's their choice. Not all men who go there hurt the girls though, I think.

And I don't think that you are in any position to criticize if you have only been there once. And for, how long, 15 mins? When was that?

BTW, how would you expect a farang to walk into the Bed club without even knowing what the xxxx it is? There isn't even a sign outside telling what it is!

Is there a list of don't-go places in Thailand? How many metres away from NEP? Or is it the whole Sukumwit?

[shemmy]

I'm only kidding you can tell it's abroad!!

[Pudgimelon]

And I can't believe, after pages of nana bashing, you'd only been there once, hardly a broad amount of experiences to make a smart opinion on.

I only need to step in s--t once to know that it stinks.

  Really you might have been better off not moaning at Kringle in the first place and just made the point you wanted to make in a new topic WHY THAI BARS ARE BETTER/SAFER THAN FARANG PLACES?

True, that would make a good topic. It is a good question. Why DO you guys tolerate those sh-tholes?

[Pudgimelon]

You might feel easy going to Thais-frequented places, but some farangs might not.  Some might want to go to places where there are more farangs and feel safer.

If they want to hang out with people just like themselves, why didn't they just STAY IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY??

Going to Thailand and then being afraid to hang out with Thais is just STUPID.

Not all men who go there hurt the girls though, I think.

That whole industry hurts women, so just by buying a beer in one of those places you're supporting an industry that destroys thousands of women each year. But that's a topic for another thread.

And I don't think that you are in any position to criticize if you have only been there once.  And for, how long, 15 mins?  When was that?

Like I said before, you only need to step in sh-t once to know that it stinks.

BTW, how would you expect a farang to walk into the Bed club without even knowing what the xxxx it is?  There isn't even a sign outside telling what it is!

Gee, I don't know, maybe the line of clubrats waiting to get in the door would give someone a clue that it's a NIGHTCLUB.

But then again, considering the intelligence level we're dealing with on these forums, I wouldn't be surprised if someone lacked the deductive reasoning to sort that out for themselves without a big f'king sign telling them "THIS IS A NIGHTCLUB, DUMBASS!"

Is there a list of don't-go places in Thailand?  How many metres away from NEP?  Or is it the whole Sukumwit?

In my book? The whole of Eurotown is not worth it (Sukhumvit, Silom, Khao Sarn).

Sure, there are some decent places mixed in there, but I'd rather not put up with the guantlet of touts, tuk-tuk drivers, aggressive street vendors, and "broken-meter" taxi drivers who can't seem to find the expressway without making 5 left turns. Likewise, I'd rather not sit down next to some drunken Dane who can't hold his liquor or some sweaty, shirtless Aussie who's looking to "blow off some steam".

Thanks, but no thanks.

Given the quality of the non-farang entertainment options, there really is no competition. The whole of Eurotown is over-priced, obnoxious, dirty, and dangerous.

######, even the bargirls are ugly when compared to the ones I see hanging around outside of the Thai karaoke bars in the suburbs.

Seems like you guys are content to pay more for less.

[bkkmadness]

QUOTE 

  Really you might have been better off not moaning at Kringle in the first place and just made the point you wanted to make in a new topic WHY THAI BARS ARE BETTER/SAFER THAN FARANG PLACES?

True, that would make a good topic. It is a good question. Why DO you guys tolerate those sh-tholes?

I said farang places not s-holes, you should really try to appreciate the question more. Not my personal choice of venue but is the Q bar a s-hole? And quite a large farang population there.

If they want to hang out with people just like themselves, why didn't they just STAY IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY??

Going to Thailand and then being afraid to hang out with Thais is just STUPID.

Some people want to hang out with their own culture as well as the thais in another country. If your parents go to Spain or Greece for a holiday. do you think they are stupid for not going to local nightclubs with the Spanish or Greek?

And try to remember that a lot of people in 'eurotown' are older than us, a 40,50, 60 yr old guy might not want to go to a thai nightclub. Besides I go that way often just to play pool, not many pool bars in Rachada soi 4, Thonglor, Ekami etc.

Sure, there are some decent places mixed in there, but I'd rather not put up with the guantlet of touts, tuk-tuk drivers, aggressive street vendors, and "broken-meter" taxi drivers who can't seem to find the expressway without making 5 left turns.

After a years of living in Thailand I notice these people don't bother me anymore, in fact I very rarely get a taxi that doesn't give me the meter first time, without asking.

The whole of Eurotown is over-priced, obnoxious

That's just simply not true, I don't think you have much experience of living here and certainly not of 'eurotown'.

even the bargirls are ugly when compared to the ones I see hanging around outside of the Thai karaoke bars in the suburbs.

Not doubt true in many cases, but not all girls are in Eurotown are bargirls.

In my book? The whole of Eurotown is not worth it (Sukhumvit, Silom, Khao Sarn).

Your book doesn't include Thong Lor, Ekami, good places in Silom soi 4 and good clubs in Khao San then? Leaves you with what places, aside from Rachada?

Seems like you guys are content to pay more for less.

Seems like personal choice to me, live and let live.

[Pudgimelon]

Not my personal choice of venue but is the Q bar a s-hole?

Yes, Q-Bar is a sh-thole.

Overcrowded, dark, cramped, with over-priced/watered-down drinks, a sh-tty sound system, and wall-to-wall freelancers. Yes, that fits my definition of a sh-thole.

Compare it to a mostly Thai club, and you'll see what I mean. In all respects, Q-Bar is worse than the average decent Thai club.

If your parents go to Spain or Greece for a holiday. do you think they are stupid for not going to local nightclubs with the Spanish or Greek?

No, but I'd think they were pretty stupid if they spent the whole vacation eating at Burger King and going shopping in a mall just because they were scared to try Greek food or visit a Greek market.

not many pool bars in Rachada soi 4, Thonglor, Ekami etc.

You aren't looking that hard.

I don't think you have much experience of living here and certainly not of 'eurotown'.

I have enough experience to know that every time I go into that area of town, I get hassled by some of the rudest people I've ever met (both Thai and Farang). Whatever good things Eurotown has to offer, I don't seem them outweighing the negatives.

  Not doubt true in many cases, but not all girls are in Eurotown are bargirls.

True, but there are a lot of them. Certainly more than what you'd find out in the suburbs.

  Your book doesn't include Thong Lor, Ekami, good places in Silom soi 4 and good clubs in Khao San then?  Leaves you with what places, aside from Rachada?

Silom Soi 4 sucks ass. Khao Sarn sucks ass. They mildly ADEQUATE clubs they have there aren't so phenomenally cool that they are worth the attending bullsh-t that accompanies a trip to those areas. And if you think "Home" or "The Immortal" (or any of the other non-freelancer bars on Khao Sarn or Soi 4) are the coolest places to hang out, you are WAY out of touch with the word "cool".

Trust me, those places are only slightly above average, and rarely have anything comparable to the wild, lively types of scenes you find in clubs in New York, Miami, Boston, Chicago, or LA.

See, that's the yardstick I'm using to evaluate these "farang clubs" you think are sooooooooooooooooo cool. Bangkok is a very big city, and therefore should support a lively and diverse nightlife. And it does, on the THAI side of things. But on the farang side, the options are FAR more limited: dirty little go-go bars, seedy pool halls, cramped and overcrowded clubs playing 5 year old tunes, and the ever popular roadside pub..... ***YAWN***

That's it?!!?!?!?!?!? Geesh..... Des Moines has better options than that!!

Where's the hardcore punk clubs like Miami's "The Kitchen"?? Or the goth clubs like Miami's "The Squeeze"?? (where Marylin Manson and the Spooky Kids played as the Wednesday night house band, I know, because I used to party at Marylin's apartment afterhours). Where's the mega-clubs like Boston/LA's "Avalon", which hold over 4000 people and play host to DJ's like Digiweed and the Chemical Brothers?? Where's the hip party bars like New York's "The Roxy" (roller-rink/bar, soooo cool), or Chicago's "Limelight"??

When compared to the American club scene, the farang options in Bangkok SUCK ASS.

But the funny thing is, price-wise, you guys pay almost as much. The few times I've been down in Eurotown, I've dropped $25-$100 on a night out. That's pretty much the same as what I'd pay in places like Miami or Houston (of course New York and LA are insanely expensive, but even there, you can find cool, cheap places to hang).

It boggles my mind that you people so viciously defend sh-tholes like Nana. Don't you realize you're being FLEECED!?!? For the money they make off you people, those club owners could be providing you with palaces worthy of kings. But you're content to pick rat-sh-t out of your ice....

You're right, it is personal preference. I'm just glad I'm not as gullible as you people.

[bkkmadness]

QUOTE 

If your parents go to Spain or Greece for a holiday. do you think they are stupid for not going to local nightclubs with the Spanish or Greek?

No, but I'd think they were pretty stupid if they spent the whole vacation eating at Burger King and going shopping in a mall just because they were scared to try Greek food or visit a Greek market.

We are not talking about farang eating habits, keep to the point you was making please. Ok, let me put the question better,

Your parents are coming to Bangkok on a holiday (not to visit you, lets not complicate it), they want to go out for a drink, do they choose a Thai club in rachada, or choose a bar in Eurotown. Are they stupid for choosing the bar in Eurotown and not going to a hip and trendy Thai club?

QUOTE 

not many pool bars in Rachada soi 4, Thonglor, Ekami etc.

You aren't looking that hard.

Back your answer up please, where are there a selection of decent (as in regualtion size, proper slate etc.) paid for the hour, tables, and proper cues. Feel free to name a few. I'm thinking along the lines of megabreak in Nana here.

Khao Sarn sucks ass. They mildly ADEQUATE clubs they have there aren't so phenomenally cool that they are worth the attending bullsh-t that accompanies a trip to those areas. And if you think "Home" or "The Immortal" (or any of the other non-freelancer bars on Khao Sarn or Soi 4) are the coolest places to hang out, you are WAY out of touch with the word "cool".

Never metioned home or immotal, I don't like either of them. Definition of a cool bar is a place where the people are cool, ie. enjoy the party, relaxed, no fighting, no rudeness. I would suggest places like Austins which has been a nice bar for years.

Where's the hardcore punk clubs like Miami's "The Kitchen"?? Or the goth clubs like Miami's "The Squeeze"?? (where Marylin Manson and the Spooky Kids played as the Wednesday night house band, I know, because I used to party at Marylin's apartment afterhours). Where's the mega-clubs like Boston/LA's "Avalon", which hold over 4000 people and play host to DJ's like Digiweed and the Chemical Brothers?? Where's the hip party bars like New York's "The Roxy" (roller-rink/bar, soooo cool), or Chicago's "Limelight"??

When compared to the American club scene, the farang options in Bangkok SUCK ASS.

There is no thai places that can compare to the American, European club scene either and come off looking soooooooooooo cool either. I wish there was, always been a little disappointed by the club scene out her, despite going to a wide variety of places (mainly Thai places for clubs) and having a lot of good nights out over the last 5 yrs.

You're right, it is personal preference. I'm just glad I'm not as gullible as you people.

Never a need to leave a personal snipe when making a discussion. I would hardly call myself gullible, a lot of people on this discussion have been rude to you, don't bunch me in with them with the "you people" remarks please. I think I have been open minded to think about other peoples opinions and not based the 'going out in Bangkok' topic purely from a young clubbers point of view. Do you really think that a lot of the older generation of guys here want to go out to Rachada soi 4?

[NaiGreg]

"We should not seek revenge on those who have committed crimes against us, or reply to their crimes with other crimes. We should reflect that by the law of karma, they are in danger of lowly and miserable lives to come, and that our duty to them, as to every being, is to help them to rise towards Nirvana, rather than let them sink to lower levels of rebirth."

-His Holiness the Dalai Lama

[Ice Treasure]

Sorry to hear about what happened Kringle.

Sorry too that you were the butt of so many flippant and infantile comments - anyone who thinks your situation was in the least amusing ...... words fail me.

It is normal practice for members and guests to bag everyone that has sh1t happen. It makes them feel good about themselves. Also exceuses their individual challenges (size, intellect, finance etc). Just watch what they do to this..

[WISteve]

Pudgy, you're back!

Well, first you're at exclusive country clubs in the States picking up all the good looking chicks, then you're at Marilyn Manson's afterhours parties? Wow, I'm just so impressed!

BTW, have you talked to anyone yet about this anal obsession you seem be having a problem with? Everything seems to be "suck ass" this and "suck ass" that..... You might want to deal with that at some point in your life...?

Oh and I nearly forgot. A couple days ago you couldn't seem to make up your mind if you were married or just seeing that beautiful, intelligent girlfriend of yours. What's the story line today?

See ya 'round sunshine,

WISteve

[francois]

hi'

hey mr Pudgimelon ... go on! you're a troll,no doubt sbout this now, and we love to play words game with people like you ...

give us some more

you give me good time, just reading your crap lines LOL

go on ... go on

francois

ps; ridiculousness never kills ...

Edited September 10, 2004 by francois

[SeaVisionBurma]

I'm sorry, Chanchao, Mods, etc - I have tried my hardest, I have read carefully through the Forum Rules several times, etc....

... but I still cannot for the life of me find the one that forbids a narrow minded, self righteous, outspoken, always correct, everything-expert member to write a half-page rant at everyone who:

1. Posted in support of Kringle,

2. Posted a view that differed from pudgimelons

3. Can't type 100+words a minute. (okay I'm having some mileage with that)

Kringle's point has been made. We are suitably forewarned about having an innocent beverage in a dubious, curtained bar.

Close the thread for everyone's sake.

Let's move on.