New 4wd Advice

[dsys]

I am looking to replace our current pick-up with a 4 wheel drive model. Currently we have a toyota hilux about 3 years old. It is used for delivering fertiliser to hill side farms, picking up feed stuff and other general farm tasks.

As most of the terain is uphill offroad/dirt track I thought it would be better to have 4WD especially in the wet season. Not a family car but a work tool, so gadgets and comfort not really needed.

I suppose the main things I am looking for is :

Good ground clearence

Good 4wd system

Cheap spares

Ability to cary a large size load.

Price range up to 1M

Prefer to buy new

Can anybody here offer some recommendations on which models to look at? Any pointers to look out for.

[philipm]

well u have these basic options for the 4wd models:

-toyota hilux vigo 4x4 (3L 162hp-output is actual more)

-mitsubishi triton 4x4--(3.2gls 165hp)-by far the best interior, cabin options, interior space.

-mazda bt50 4x4-(highest production torque pickup compared to the others 3L)

-nissan navara 4x4(174hp 2.5L-personally i dont recomand a lower L capacity with higher hp tq outputs...due to higher boost, generally means the quicker engine will ware)

-Izuzu 4x4(3L strong work horse-rather basic though)

-chevorlet colardo 4x4(looks beefy! 155hp 3L)

all these models are under a million.

personally i have the triton 4x4 3.2gls and its strong, reliable....as for the 4wd option its a stick shift....some other pickups instead have a button which can activate 4wd mode.....)

[wilko]

none of these is a true 4x4.

Check to see if any have a locking diff either just rear or front too. the Ford did offer this on the back at one point.

[Crossy]

well u have these basic options for the 4wd models:

-toyota hilux vigo 4x4 (3L 162hp-output is actual more)

-mitsubishi triton 4x4--(3.2gls 165hp)-by far the best interior, cabin options, interior space.

-mazda bt50 4x4-(highest production torque pickup compared to the others 3L)

-nissan navara 4x4(174hp 2.5L-personally i dont recomand a lower L capacity with higher hp tq outputs...due to higher boost, generally means the quicker engine will ware)

-Izuzu 4x4(3L strong work horse-rather basic though)

-chevorlet colardo 4x4(looks beefy! 155hp 3L)

Don't forget the Ford Ranger, also under a million, nice drive and it's not a Toyota or Isuzu (actually it's a badge-engineered Mazda)

As noted previously these are all 4x2 with a transfer box for 4x4 operation rather than permanent 4x4.

I think they all have at least limited slip diffs on the back, don't think any come with the option of a locking diff. either end

Edited January 9, 2008 by Crossy

[philipm]

yea all have lsd, the triton has a hybrid lsd.

non of these are full time AWD. no AWD fulltime vechiel is alvialbe here for under a million....((((IFFFFFF u r looking for a work horse....as u stated)---reason is their is no trunk bed, so u have limited space....and that these full time awd cars are all suv's.

so my opinion is just get a pickup that u think suits your taste. the vigo is the best selling....but if u are not satisfied with it....go for a triton or a bt50, izuzu and chev are also strong options but generally are known to be not the strongest contenders in preformance wise, but then again are very reliable and great for value.

[Gary A]

well u have these basic options for the 4wd models:

-toyota hilux vigo 4x4 (3L 162hp-output is actual more)

-mitsubishi triton 4x4--(3.2gls 165hp)-by far the best interior, cabin options, interior space.

-mazda bt50 4x4-(highest production torque pickup compared to the others 3L)

-nissan navara 4x4(174hp 2.5L-personally i dont recomand a lower L capacity with higher hp tq outputs...due to higher boost, generally means the quicker engine will ware)

-Izuzu 4x4(3L strong work horse-rather basic though)

-chevorlet colardo 4x4(looks beefy! 155hp 3L)

Don't forget the Ford Ranger, also under a million, nice drive and it's not a Toyota or Isuzu (actually it's a badge-engineered Mazda)

As noted previously these are all 4x2 with a transfer box for 4x4 operation rather than permanent 4x4.

I think they all have at least limited slip diffs on the back, don't think any come with the option of a locking diff. either end

I looked at a Z71 Chevy Colorado that had a lockup rear differential. I don't know if it was available with Isuzu.

[Crossy]

I looked at a Z71 Chevy Colorado that had a lockup rear differential. I don't know if it was available with Isuzu.

Yeah, I remember they were also offering the locker on the 4x2 as a get-you-out-of-the-mud option that cost less than the 4x4.

[wilko]

Limited slip is standard on the rear on all of them but locking diff is more useful and even on 2wd is a better get out of mud option.

[dsys]

Limited slip is standard on the rear on all of them but locking diff is more useful and even on 2wd is a better get out of mud option.

Thanks for all your replies. Are there any true 4x4 pickup trucks in Thailand? If so how much would I have to increase my budget by?

again thanks for the advice

Edited January 15, 2008 by dsys

[Petch01]

Thanks for all your replies. Are there any true 4x4 pickup trucks in Thailand? If so how much would I have to increase my budget by?

again thanks for the advice

There are some cars available with "true 4x4" if you mean full-time 4WD with that. No pick-ups though. Probably some out of this range: Pre 2006 Mercedes M-Class, Mercedes G500, LandRover, RangeRover, Toyota Prado, Lexus GX470.

Have a look at this site to learn more about:

- part-time 4WD

- full-time 4WD

- full-time symmetric AWD

- automatic asymmetric AWD

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/4WD-AWD-autoAWD.html

Petch01

Edited January 15, 2008 by Petch01

[Gary A]

Another thing worth considering is the transfer case itself. I think most of them now use a chain rather than gears. The chains stretch sometimes to the point that when pulling hard they actually skip and that can cause a lot of damage. It would be useful to know if any of the 4X4's here use gears. I had a full time 4X4 Jeep that had a chain and it had major problems.

[dsys]

Petch01

Thanks for the link, now I understand a bit more about the technology.

Now does anybody know how to say "differential locking" in Thai:)

[Lilawadee]

I think all this talk on not being 'true' 4x4 is misleading; it seems to imply that 4x4 trucks somehow aren't truly four wheel drive, or 'fake', etc.

You don't NEED permanent 4WD, you just need to be able to engage it when needed, i.e. when leaving the tarmac in slippery conditions. And all of those baby-SUV 'softroaders' with permanent 4WD aren't nearly as good off-road as any 4WD truck.

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

And then there's chains.. Mud chains will do a lot for your traction when the going gets tough, and aren't expensive.

[Thaiboxer]

I believe the word "foo-wang tai" is the Thai word for differential, so I think if you add "lock" to the end, making it "foo-wang tai lock", they should understand it. My Thai is not the greatest, so if anybody knows better, I'm all ears.

Also, try www.expatmotors.co.th as they have a "cheat sheet" with lots of English translations related to auto stuff. However, not all the entries are correct, so best to check with a Thai friend or family member. This is the site where I learned the word for "differential" from. I printed out these words and keep them with my automotive reference stuff.

[dsys]

I think all this talk on not being 'true' 4x4 is misleading; it seems to imply that 4x4 trucks somehow aren't truly four wheel drive, or 'fake', etc.

You don't NEED permanent 4WD, you just need to be able to engage it when needed, i.e. when leaving the tarmac in slippery conditions. And all of those baby-SUV 'softroaders' with permanent 4WD aren't nearly as good off-road as any 4WD truck.

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

And then there's chains.. Mud chains will do a lot for your traction when the going gets tough, and aren't expensive.

Yes my previous post was down to ignorance on the issues, having only been exposed to the marketing and not having read up on what the technologies are. Link posted earler was very usefull and I now understand what the options are.

[wilko]

Petch01

Thanks for the link, now I understand a bit more about the technology.

Now does anybody know how to say "differential locking" in Thai:)

try "Diff Rocking"

[wilko]

I think all this talk on not being 'true' 4x4 is misleading; it seems to imply that 4x4 trucks somehow aren't truly four wheel drive, or 'fake', etc.

You don't NEED permanent 4WD, you just need to be able to engage it when needed, i.e. when leaving the tarmac in slippery conditions. And all of those baby-SUV 'softroaders' with permanent 4WD aren't nearly as good off-road as any 4WD truck.

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

And then there's chains.. Mud chains will do a lot for your traction when the going gets tough, and aren't expensive.

fit a lock to the rear...yes...the rub is that if one wheel looses traction without a diff lock the other stops so your "4WD rapidly becomes 2 then one wheel drive in muddy, slippery conditions...or even with one wheel in the air.

[Petch01]

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

A differential lock are gears inside a differential. It prevents wheels to spin differently. You cannot go to any 4x4 shop to mount it because it's inside the differential.

Have a look at this site before posting nonsenses.

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/diff_locks.html

Petch01

Edited January 17, 2008 by Petch01

[Gary A]

Years ago we used to build bog vehicles. They were normally old four wheel drives. We took out the pigs (differentials) and actually welded the spider gears together. This in effect eliminated the differentials because it physically locked both axles together. They were definitely NOT safe to drive on any paved road. Once in a while we were even able to find gear ratios that allowed the front wheels to turn faster than the rear wheels. With the front wheels turning a little faster it was a lot easier to control in a straight line when in the mud.

Budget drag racers would do the same with just the rear for traction and and still drive them on the road. Many old two wheel drive farm trucks were done that way also. The old farm trucks with a heavy load were pretty hard to turn with the both back wheels locked and the front wheels sliding.

[TommyGun]

Thats the problem with the new mits triton, no diff lock. The 2005 Mits Animal which i had and Warrior had this option. Not sure if there is any of these floating around Thailand.

[wilko]

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

A differential lock are gears inside a differential. It prevents wheels to spin differently. You cannot go to any 4x4 shop to mount it because it's inside the differential.

Have a look at this site before posting nonsenses.

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/diff_locks.html

Petch01

i think they were referring to fitting a different diff.....not that hard if a model is available.

[mattias33]

none of these is a true 4x4.

Check to see if any have a locking diff either just rear or front too. the Ford did offer this on the back at one point.

Is that the real truth??

I knew that the toyota hilux and the izuzu d-max only are 4x2s but i just thought that was my European way of seing it since all these cars say 4x4 on the back of them and the drivers also seem to think they drive 4x4 cars. But i realy did not have a clue that the triton also not have a diff lock? Shocking news for me.

So basicly the only real 4x4 pick-up availible in Thailand is some of the Ford Rangers then??

[mattias33]

I think all this talk on not being 'true' 4x4 is misleading; it seems to imply that 4x4 trucks somehow aren't truly four wheel drive, or 'fake', etc.

You don't NEED permanent 4WD, you just need to be able to engage it when needed, i.e. when leaving the tarmac in slippery conditions. And all of those baby-SUV 'softroaders' with permanent 4WD aren't nearly as good off-road as any 4WD truck.

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

And then there's chains.. Mud chains will do a lot for your traction when the going gets tough, and aren't expensive.

2 qoutes that are made by somebody that dont have a clue what he is talking about.

First of all, and i have to say i always been a bit shocked why all these 4x2 cars in Thailand are aloud to say they are 4x4 cars, in Europe they are not. 4x4 means each wheel can drive individually. And preferable its steered by automatic. If you are driving offroad and come in to a deep whole with one wheel, your "4x4" is now driving on 2 wheels. In serious terrain 4x2 cars are useless. Sure on a road with a little more wholes than usual roads the 4x2 car works like a 4 wheel drive car. But one wheel blocked and you are sitting in a 2 wheel drive car all of a sudden. Add to that fact that older d-max and tigers only have 2.3 liter engines and you have to be stupid to think you can do offroad driving with this cars. As you say "you just have to be able to engage it when its needed" is exactly what you most of the time not are with 4x2s. When is 4wd needed? As i see it when some wheel is locked, right? Well, thats exactly the situation when a 4x2 turn in to a 2wd car. But it looks nice on the back of your truck "4x4". And for most people it makes the car cooler, and more worth. To me a 4 wd without differential lock is nothing but a 2wd. Except for when you dont need it, then its a 4wd. Pointless.

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

O really?? Excuse me but i dont beleive this at all. Can you explain further how this would be done please? And if it would be possible to put gears in a differntial that dont have it to begin with, it is such a megamecanic story that i seriously doubt "any 4x4 shop" would take on such a job. I think you are a bit out in the blue, quite honestly.

[madjbs]

2 qoutes that are made by somebody that dont have a clue what he is talking about.

Actually I think you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

4X4 simply means all the wheels can be driven, it has nothing to do with having some kind of diff lock, although it would be preferable.

There is many 4X4 cars in the UK that are exactly the same setup as the trucks here, nearly all the Japanese 4X4's in fact (selectable 4 wheel drive, limited slip diff on the rear)

Also, it is common for off roaders to fit aftermarket locking diffs, they aren’t cheap as they cost around 700 quid in the UK. However, it is still often done to modified off road vehicles.

[mattias33]

2 qoutes that are made by somebody that dont have a clue what he is talking about.

Actually I think you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

4X4 simply means all the wheels can be driven, it has nothing to do with having some kind of diff lock, although it would be preferable.

There is many 4X4 cars in the UK that are exactly the same setup as the trucks here, nearly all the Japanese 4X4's in fact (selectable 4 wheel drive, limited slip diff on the rear)

Also, it is common for off roaders to fit aftermarket locking diffs, they aren’t cheap as they cost around 700 quid in the UK. However, it is still often done to modified off road vehicles.

We have alot of the japanese trucks also in Sweden but in general we call 4x2 cars only 4wd. Specifying that the car is 4x4 at least in general talk means that it infact is 4x4. But ok, you might be correct that 4x4 only is another word for 4wd then, but for me and motorpeople in my world back at the homebase a 4x4 should have a diff-lock. Otherwise we just say 4wd.

Aftermarket lock diffs? Common for offroaders?

I grew up on the racetrack basyicly, and i never heard of anybody that did this. Cant be that common. And whats the point of this? Are you saying its very common in the uk for offroaders to buy cars without diff-lock and then rebuild them? To me it is not a small thing to put differential lock on a car that dont have it. What you talk about must be cars that already from the begining are prepared for difflock. You can not put it in any car. alot of changes needs to be done and i doubt that could be done for £700. And if you buy a car with the offroad intetion why would you buy one without difflock in the first place?

I dont know but it sounds a bit stupid in my ears....

[tb86]

Indeed a proper diff lock would be nice-to-have, but any 4x4 shop can fit one to any truck.

A differential lock are gears inside a differential. It prevents wheels to spin differently. You cannot go to any 4x4 shop to mount it because it's inside the differential.

Have a look at this site before posting nonsenses.

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/diff_locks.html

Petch01

YEAH IT IS THAT EASY.... a decent 4x4 shop will be able to install a new r&p as well as a locking diff such as arb or detroit to the rear axle or the front.. generaly the front diff is left open ie no posi or lsd installed from the factory, the lsd's that come factory arent worth much....not all places will be equiped to do it but they will be able to refer you to one that will. and a locking diff is not gears, the ring and pinion are gears they are in every axle housing, the locker ataches to the ring and pinion ie referred to as a carrier, the locker will distribute the power to each axle shaft inside the housing generly transferring power to the wheel that has the most traction, when a unlocked truck has one wheel off the ground power still goes to the wheel wit no traction, in a locked truck all power will be transferred to the wheel with traction ie locking the power to the tire that will provide the most foreward momentum... the ring and pinion only regulate the speed and gearing ratio ot the axle ie 4.56, 3.84, 3.53 the lower the gearing ie 4.56, 5.13, 6.13? are lower gears ie better for offroad they move slower can handle big tires..

[tb86]

the new thai trucks are ifs, that stands for independent front suspension.. they are not true live axle ie solid axle trucks but they are fairly easily retrofitted with live axles such as dana 30. 44, 60 , 70 series housings as well as the toyota 8.8 or ford 9 in housing.but the ifs setups on the common thai trucks can be equiped with full locking differientals, as far as them not being 4x4 untrue.For the guy who says that they arent look under the truck.... does it have a transfer case?It will be attached to the back of the tranny, will have 2 drive shafts, one to the rear live axle attached to the tires and wheels, and one to the front ifs 4x4 system, If your truck has 2 driveshafts then it has 4wd i guess its just that easy..... check out my club website pirate4x4.com for tons of 4wd facts...........not speculation

[Sakeopete]

well u have these basic options for the 4wd models:

-toyota hilux vigo 4x4 (3L 162hp-output is actual more)

-mitsubishi triton 4x4--(3.2gls 165hp)-by far the best interior, cabin options, interior space.

-mazda bt50 4x4-(highest production torque pickup compared to the others 3L)

-nissan navara 4x4(174hp 2.5L-personally i dont recomand a lower L capacity with higher hp tq outputs...due to higher boost, generally means the quicker engine will ware)

-Izuzu 4x4(3L strong work horse-rather basic though)

-chevorlet colardo 4x4(looks beefy! 155hp 3L)

Don't forget the Ford Ranger, also under a million, nice drive and it's not a Toyota or Isuzu (actually it's a badge-engineered Mazda)

As noted previously these are all 4x2 with a transfer box for 4x4 operation rather than permanent 4x4.

I think they all have at least limited slip diffs on the back, don't think any come with the option of a locking diff. either end

Locking diffs are available here and its an easy job installing them, the site I seen was offering Eaton brand which are very good. They have been making diffs and transfer cases for commercial equipment and off roaders for years.