Australian Aged Pension

[scorecard]

On 9/22/2024 at 1:45 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Here is the DTA - australia : article 1-5 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

Do you have legal contracts training and experience - I do - many years of it.

My read is the same as several other tax lawyers - but the truth is others have said they think it is taxable.

IMO are just touting for business and reading it the way they want to read it - it is ambiguous.

 

But at this point I have not found or heard of any Pensioner paying income taxes to Thailand.

The current law/rule is that if earned this year (as the Pension is) you pay tax this year - if it is remitted. 

 

I think the issue is not so much a legal one 'is it taxable' - IMO the issue is will TRD try to tax retired Expat's Pensions.

 

 

Last paragraph of above very meaningful. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:50 PM, Artisi said:

I  should have been more specific and said, returning "just before applying" as this is what I thought HK was implying. So I would say 2 years prior to applying, portability should be granted. 

As scorecard said, ring Centrelink Hobart - straight from the official source. 

Yes, that was what I was referring to.

 

The 35 years aside, as someone could have started working at 16, we have one member posting you can go back to Australia, and just be inside Australia at pension age, apply, and go. I found this surprising, if it's the case.

 

You are posting one should go back to Australia 2 years before pension age, apply, so can fly straight out with portability.

 

Other members are also saying different things. 

 

Does anyone actually know the answer? 

 

I used the 20 years as example, but it could be 15, 10, or even 5 years outside of Australia before pension age.  How long must you be inside Australia before pension age, to apply on the day, be granted, and fly out with portability. 

 

I was thinking 6 months to re-establish residency, mainly because one could provide a 6 month lease on a property as documentary evidence of their "intention" to continue to reside in Australia. 

 

If so, 6 month prior would be a lot better than 2 years after for portability.  You can see what I am getting at. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:16 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Too easy....

 

Generally, this means they must be residing in Australia and physically present in Australia when they lodge their claim.

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/7/1/4

 

Yes, we all know this.

 

Many expats have gone home and done the 2 years, BS'ing Centerlink that they have the "intention" of remaining in Australia.  Well discussed on this forum in the past.

 

What I am getting at is, what about prior to turning pension age?  Could one go back to Australia, rent a little 1 bedroom unit somewhere, get the electricity / gas connected, maybe buy a cheap secondhand car, join the local bowlo etc etc, and BS Centerlink with these documents to only have to do 6 months to achieve portability, immediately on their pension birthday?

 

Or, is there a define amount of time, like the 2 years, one must return to Australia BEFORE pension age, or could one BS their way with the above appearance of their "intention" to remain in Australia?  

 

As mentioned, 6 months before is a lot easier than 2 years after.  

 

Is it possible?   

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:31 AM, Artisi said:

You can return anytime you like, before or after you get to pension age - however, there would be no portability for  2 years after pension being granted. 

You have contradicted yourself.

 

You have said 2 years prior to fly out soon after being granted.  Now you are saying fly back "anytime" but you can't leave with portability for 2 years after, which we all know, if that's the case. one may as well fly back the day before their pension birthday.    

 

I would find this strange as well. 

 

Once again, after being outside Australia for some years, how long would Centerlink think acceptable, after producing some documents, to BS them about one's "intention" of remaining in Australia?

 

We have always discussed the 2 years after the pension birthday.  What about how long before the pension birthday to fly out immediately after being granted?   

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:58 PM, Nemises said:

Are you sure? I thought that if you returned 2 years before pension age, there would be portability immediately after pension being granted. 

I'm thinking it could be less than 2 years, if one was to create the appearance of being "domiciled" in Australia. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 10:05 PM, Mason45 said:

I didn't return to Australia for 2 years prior as I had commitments in Thailand. I'm now 80 years old, worked for the Department of Defense all my working life. I also did military service, I have an Australian Service medal and I still don't qualify. Need I say my thoughts about Australia, a once great country of which we were lucky to spend our childhoods in.

I was under the impression that, under an old scheme, back in your time, if you did 20 years in the defense force, you got a pension.  Correct me if I am wrong. 

 

The gold card, however, is very different. 

 

I have edited this post after reading a post from another member. 

 

If you are receiving a military pension (I thought you were not)  do you feel you are entitled to both pensions, the military pension and the aged pension?

Edited 2 hours ago by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:22 PM, scorecard said:

Unfortunately military service / war service has no bearing on gaining the OAP.

An ex-serviceman can not be on both pensions.  It's due to receiving other forms of incomes and thresholds. 

 

I'll go an edit that post now and ask whether the member thinks he should be able to receive both pensions. 

[Pattaya57]

On 9/22/2024 at 1:11 PM, Will27 said:

Just waiting for KH to get off of his meds and see all of these new posts.

 

Looking forward to 50 plus replies that we're all wrong, Paul Hogan and non-resident tax.

 

I'm guessing you nailed it

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Pattaya57

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:50 PM, georgegeorgia said:

Wouldn't you get Veterans Pension?

Asked the same also. 

 

At 80, surely he was under the old scheme of 20 years in the forces and you can take a pension.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:54 PM, georgegeorgia said:

There is no requirement to work 35 years ,you don't even have to work a day in your life to get the old age pension 

 

As you know there are certain Country towns in Australia that many haven't worked a day in their life and they will still get full old age pension when they are 67

 

 

Not just country towns, the cities, also. 

 

Australia now has welfare generational families.  Mum and dad never worked, and grandpa and grandma never worked, yet, they have a car, big TV's, can afford alcohol and cigarettes. 

 

Apparently, the child is supposed to grow up to see that the daily grind of having a job, just to support mum, dad, and the grandparents, and others, through their income tax, is the way to go. 

 

Being on welfare has become a lifestyle choice in Australia, and the shrinking middle class is paying for it.  It's unsustainable.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 2:16 AM, giddyup said:

Only if you served in a combat zone like Vietnam.

As mentioned, under an old scheme, I was under the belief that if one did 20 years in the forces, they could take a pension.  

[KhunHeineken]

16 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

 

I'm guessing you nailed it

 

Unlike many others, who I have NEVER reported, I have not breached any forum rules.  Many members take advantage of that.  Water off a duck's back for me. 

 

You post says more about you, than me. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 2:48 AM, LosLobo said:

As a Commonwealth employee aren't you now not on a Defined Benefits Scheme making you ineligible for Aged Pension? Or possibly you have too many assets to qualify?

I've asked the member similar. 

 

Perhaps he feels entitled to both. 

 

Or, perhaps he's like another of this forum who has posted he's on a Vet's pension, then posted he's on a Aged Pension, then back to a Vet's Pension etc etc, when you can't be on both.  

Edited 1 hour ago by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 2:54 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

Her grandparents, her mother and father, and at the time, her sisters were having children and not having worked a day in their life. 

I bet the kids never ended up working, either. 

 

On 9/21/2024 at 2:54 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

So these housing commission people are still entitled to an aged pension, never having worked?

Of course they are.  Why would you think they wouldn't be.  They are Australian citizens. 

 

They can vote, so any government looking to stop the rorting would never be voted in, hence, they would never announce such a policy.  So, it proliferates.

 

Also, you are forgetting all the other benefits they all get over the decades, like no car rego, energy rebates, public transport etc etc. 

 

On 9/21/2024 at 2:54 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

Generations of unemployed families. 

No end in sight.  Set to continue for generations to come. 

 

Australia - The Lucky Country.  Let immigrants from poorer countries in to work and pay tax so you don't have to work, then complain about immigrants taking a job that you were never going to do in the first place. 

Edited 1 hour ago by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:00 AM, georgegeorgia said:

Lol..Dharruk..Emerton..Bidwell

Don't forget the whole suburbs of housing commission in Campbelltown.

 

On 9/21/2024 at 3:00 AM, georgegeorgia said:

He had 6 kids 

How many different mothers?  

 

Usually, the guy was on the dole, and shouldn't be living with the girl who's on the single mother's pension.  Between them, they brought in more money than most average paid workers. 

 

You still see these people in the shops in Australia, doing the same their parents did, and grandparents did, every pension day.  First purchase, carton of cigarettes, second purchase, carton of beer and cask wine.  Then, food for the kids. 

 

On 9/21/2024 at 3:00 AM, georgegeorgia said:

Of course cost him a lot for window bars ,guard dogs etc 

Talking about bars, cheaper to let them out and pay them the dole, than to build more gaols and protect the community from them.  Hence, the high crime rate from this demographic in the community. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:45 AM, Artisi said:

Nothing has changed and it's not right for those of use who worked all their lives, paid off our house, educated our kids and saved a bit of cash for retirement and now get screwed for our pension because we have too many assets and still support all the bludging ar$eholes.

The writing was on the wall decades ago. 

 

There are more on welfare than workers, so those on welfare get to dictate government policy every election.  Thus, it's set to keep going in the same direction for decades to come.   

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:55 AM, Will27 said:

My biggest bugbear is the 2 year qualifying period for portability. 

 

If you are eligible, it shouldn't matter where you live.

Can you explain your theory behind this? 

 

I do see your words "if you are eligible" but many Australians work overseas, and don't pay a cent in tax back in Australia.  They work in countries that offer no, or very little tax, for their skills and expertise. 

 

Should one spend most of their working life overseas, earning good money, and paying little or no tax in the country where they work, and zero tax in Australia, why should they be able to fly home at 65 or 67, claim a pension, either live in Australia, or fly straight back out to live overseas? 

 

I can understand if one worked for decades in Australia, and retired early, but many haven't.  For these people, all they have had that is connected to Australia is a passport.  Why should they get a pension? 

 

This is why world wide taxation is coming, particularly as we are now in the digital age, with people working online, from anywhere. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:11 AM, SAFETY FIRST said:

I reckon the government had no choice or could have done things a lot better regarding qualifying period, they were forced to change the procedures to quality. 

 

I read that some illegal immigrants came to Australia, hadn't worked a day in Australia but claimed the pension then moved back to the middle east enjoying a good income, it allowed them to live a very comfortable life in their craphole countries or region they came from. 

 

 

Interesting post. 

 

Made me think of a scenario. 

 

Say one has dual national parents, one being Australia, and take your pick for the other.  Could be the UK, Italy, Greece, Germany, France, Vietnam etc etc, and the parents have lived and worked pretty much all their life back in the home country, perhaps after wars finished and it was safe to return home, and one, or all of their children, qualify for an Australia passport, because they were born in Australia. 

 

The child gets an Australian passport, as they are entitled to, flies back to Australia at 65 /67, despite never living a day in Australia, cries poor, gets the pension and leaves.  I think many would be concerned about this, as you mentioned.  

 

I can see why the Australian government requires some type of "appearance" of establishing residency. 

 

A member on this forum has called me a tax evader because I am still earning in Australia, and still pay tax in Australia, just not at the non resident tax rate, yet, it appears perfectly fine for many members of this forum to go back to Australia, BS Centerlink for 2 years, with the allusion they have the "intention" of remaining in Australia, and leave for Thailand straight after portability.

 

I guess it goes to ones sense of "entitlement."     

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:19 AM, Will27 said:

You're right.

They could've done things a lot better.

 

Could've implemented a few things to try and avoid that type of thing happening.

Such as????

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:32 AM, LosLobo said:

I thought only Poms whinged about Australia.

And those on welfare, and those that pay tax to support those on welfare.  

Edited 5 minutes ago by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/21/2024 at 4:47 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

If you return to Australia before getting the pension and establish residency (2 years is seen as a reasonable time)

Any link for the 2 years prior to pension age? 

 

We know about the 2 years after, just wondering about the 2 years prior.  

 

On 9/21/2024 at 4:47 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

However - once you have been overseas for a while and then return to get the Pension (if qualified) then you do have to wait 2 years before portability will be approved.  Example - eligible for Pension now/next week/month and return now - you will get the Pension now, but you must wait 2 years before portability will be approved. Fact.

Link please.