Australian Aged Pension

[LosLobo]

19 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The grandfathering issue has nothing to do with asset limits.

The DSS seems to think otherwise.

 

Grandfathering provisions

A person who is an owner of an account-based pension purchased before 1 January 2015 and the holder of a CSHC on 31 December 2014, will not have their account-based pension included in the income test for as long as they:

• continue to hold a CSHC, and
• retain the same account-based pension.

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/9/3/31

[David Walden]

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

The DSS seems to think otherwise......

 

Person is beneficiary of deceased estate, or has interest in a superannuation fund

Deprivation provisions apply to a person's interest in a deceased estate or superannuation fund IF the person:

• waives their right to their interest in the deceased estate or superannuation fund and the person obtains no, or inadequate consideration, OR
• directs the executor of the will or trustee of the superannuation fund to distribute their interest in the deceased estate or superannuation fund to a third party and the person obtains no consideration, or inadequate consideration, OR
• gives their interest in the deceased estate to a third party after the estate has been finalised for no or inadequate consideration, OR
• gifts their interest in a superannuation fund.

I admit I know little about probate matters.  These post are about AAP.  But I can already see ways around not accepting and inheritance and Centrelink's involvement.  Previously I mention a friend of mine who inherited 25% share in a 2 million dollar house only on the condition that the mothers partner of 30 years had tenancy from the property for the rest of his life.  He and his 3 siblings were all likely to lose their AAP as they had each received an asset to the value of $500,000.  The ruling was, as none of the 4 could receive a financial benefit until his mother's partner died there was no asset yet.  The pension continued to be paid.

[LosLobo]

24 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I admit I know little about probate matters.  These post are about AAP.  But I can already see ways around not accepting and inheritance and Centrelink's involvement.  Previously I mention a friend of mine who inherited 25% share in a 2 million dollar house only on the condition that the mothers partner of 30 years had tenancy from the property for the rest of his life.  He and his 3 siblings were all likely to lose their AAP as they had each received an asset to the value of $500,000.  The ruling was, as none of the 4 could receive a financial benefit until his mother's partner died there was no asset yet.  The pension continued to be paid.

With respect David, how does this example support your statement....

 

" As far as I know you do not have to accept an inheritance...….. you will still receive the full pension. " ?

 

If the siblings rejected the inheritance after the death of the partner deprivation rules would apply. QED!

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

With respect David, how does this example support your statement....

 

" As far as I know you do not have to accept an inheritance...….. you will still receive the full pension. " ?

 

If the siblings rejected the inheritance after the death of the partner deprivation rules would apply. QED!

Legally that is the case no one is required to accept an inheritance.  You comments are nothing to do with the law they are just a requirement of Centrelink.  My comments point out that there are ways around this Centrelink requirement.  If I was in the position and was financially sound and receiving the pension with maximum allowable assets and happy with 3 gown up kids, most people could get their lawyer to write a will by the parents that will also respect their wishes as long as parents are happy.  The children can assist you if required after they inherit the house.  There are ways of making things happen that's what you pay lawyers for.

Edited October 27, 2018 by David Walden

[LosLobo]

37 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Legally that is the case no one is required to accept an inheritance.  You comments are nothing to do with the law they are just a requirement of Centrelink.  

And who do you think pays the Australian Aged Pension? 

 

Remember the GOLDEN RULE...….

He who has the gold makes the rules!   ????

[David Walden]

9 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

And who do you think pays the Australian Aged Pension? 

 

Remember the GOLDEN RULE...….

He who has the gold makes the rules!   ????

The gold miners, the iron ore miners, the coal miners, the oil and gas miners, the farmers etc etc.  Just about every pension is paid out of money that just pops out of the ground, " The lucky country"  as much as we complain about our Gov the system is stable.  We don't like pollies much, Africa and Russia both have at least 10 times the untouched natural resources as Aus but mostly have very unstable Governments or title to land which you build your wealth on.  It's in Australia's interest and the Western world to see this situation continues.  No I don't think it's fair but I don't want to share Aus with anyone else.

[ubon farang]

Ok I was In aus In april and went to see Centrlink/ I cant get my pension till I am 67 which is sad because I have worked for over 35 years in Aus and paid huge taxes. I was born in March 1957 so its 67 The impression I got you must be in australia to lodge your pension claim and also reside there for 2 years to prove your residency Am I wrong? But someone else told me if you have worked lived and paid taxes in australia for more than 25 years that rule dont apply to you? But another low down act by the Aus government by attacking pensioners is that if you are married to a younger Thai lady they deem her to able to earn money so they start taking money off your pension You loose all the supplements etc also. In honest truth you think australia would get into a social sucurity agreement with Thailand where they know most ex pats live? They have those sorts of agreements with countries like holland  finland   lol  But as the lady said in centrelink Dont panic because when it is time for you to collect the pension the rules would of changed again. Wise words

[Will27]

3 hours ago, ubon farang said:

Ok I was In aus In april and went to see Centrlink/ I cant get my pension till I am 67 which is sad because I have worked for over 35 years in Aus and paid huge taxes. I was born in March 1957 so its 67 The impression I got you must be in australia to lodge your pension claim and also reside there for 2 years to prove your residency Am I wrong? But someone else told me if you have worked lived and paid taxes in australia for more than 25 years that rule dont apply to you? But another low down act by the Aus government by attacking pensioners is that if you are married to a younger Thai lady they deem her to able to earn money so they start taking money off your pension You loose all the supplements etc also. In honest truth you think australia would get into a social sucurity agreement with Thailand where they know most ex pats live? They have those sorts of agreements with countries like holland  finland   lol  But as the lady said in centrelink Dont panic because when it is time for you to collect the pension the rules would of changed again. Wise words

If you've been living overseas, you need to come back and do your time (2 years).

 

Nothing to do with being married to a "younger Thai lady".

You're either married or you're not and there are different rates for that.

 

You've got a few years yet to think about what you're going to do.

[moojar]

6 hours ago, ubon farang said:

The impression I got you must be in australia to lodge your pension claim and also reside there for 2 years to prove your residency Am I wrong? But someone else told me if you have worked lived and paid taxes in australia for more than 25 years that rule dont apply to you? 

There are pages of info here and more on the Centrelink website. 

 - yes, must be in Oz to lodge your claim except in certain special circumstances.  I get the impression 'terminal illness' might be the circumstance, and then they'd want a statutory declaration signed by all four of your grandparents AND Robert Menzies. 

 - Others have disputed the 2 years thing so if you find ANY way around it please let us all know.  I'm hoping six months per year for several years will satisfy them, but I'm some years away from testing the theory.  I'll discuss with Centrelink when the time comes. 

 - 25 years, someone is confused.  I think they mean the 'Australian Working Life Residence' (AWLR) rules.  This is to stop blow-ins taking off with a full pension, if you leave the country you only get a percentage of the pension according to how many years you've lived in Australia - used to be based on 25 years since you were 16, it was fairly recently increased to 35 years, by Julia Gillard's government I believe.  It is separate from having to prove residency, comes into play once you have been granted a pension. 

 

Centrelink have an 'International' division filled with quite helpful people.  Used to be able to reverse charges call from overseas, not sure if still the case.  Number on their website somewhere. 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by moojar

[BB1958]

7 hours ago, moojar said:

7 hours ago, moojar said:

it was fairly recently increased to 35 years, by Julia Gillard's government I believe

 

It Is a Liberal attack - Abbott Gov. ALSO They used to allow full pension for 6 months, whilst overseas (Now six weeks) away from OZ. The Liberals hate the elderly - unless they are wealthy elderly. 

 

Labour was very much against the changes, however, when they are put back in power at the next election, they will not remember this.

 

READ THIS:

<SNIP>The report also found that the Australian government contributes less than half the percentage of its GDP to old-age benefits than other OECD countries – spending just 3.5% of GDP on the pension when the OECD average is 7.9%.

This is in the context of Australians having one of the highest life expectancies in the world, meaning more people are on the pension, and for longer. Men have a life expectancy of 80 years, women 84 years. Approximately 80% of all Australians aged 65 years and over rely on the pension.<END SNIP>

SOURCE: https://thebigsmoke.com.au/2018/05/03/australias-pensioners-living-in-poverty/ 

 

It is wrong on every level for Aussie pensioners to be in this situation. I meet with my (Opposition Labour) MP in late January - I do not expect it to make a difference - but, I feel compelled to try.

[Brickbat]

look what you can do for your country. Not what your country can do for you. 

Remember,those who are not ELEGIBLE for the Aust Age pension HAVE PAID A HELL OF A LOT MORE TAXES.

[Will27]

39 minutes ago, Brickbat said:

look what you can do for your country. Not what your country can do for you. 

Remember,those who are not ELEGIBLE for the Aust Age pension HAVE PAID A HELL OF A LOT MORE TAXES.

And?

[BB1958]

  8 hours ago, Brickbat said:

look what you can do for your country. Not what your country can do for you. 

Remember,those who are not ELEGIBLE for the Aust Age pension HAVE PAID A HELL OF A LOT MORE TAXES

7 hours ago, Will27 said:

And?

It's "click Bait" Will - Everyone knows that it is the rich that plunder a country and those less well of pay more taxes - always have!

[Brickbat]

There are those that steal and plunder too. The beggars on handouts. Without our businesses that toil and going away at huge risks, there would be no handouts from a “ rich” country

[Brickbat]

Tha

1 minute ago, Brickbat said:

There are those that steal and plunder too. The beggars on handouts. Without our businesses that toil and going away at huge risks, there would be no handouts from a “ rich” country

Slog away.....( going away, was auto damn correct ....

[Nemises]

A Current Affair (Channel 9 Australia) are showing a segment tonight about Australian pensioners “living the dream” elsewhere in SE Asia.... Bali.

 

[moojar]

^ Oh Gawd, here we go - another round of bragging fools on the idiot box.  Hurts us all. 

 

Thanks for letting us know, I'll watch it. 

 

[moojar]

1 hour ago, Brickbat said:

There are those that steal and plunder too. The beggars on handouts. Without our businesses that toil and going away at huge risks, there would be no handouts from a “ rich” country

Couple of things happened to me this week that got me thinking.  

 

One, had dinner with friends - one of them refers to himself as "a Liberal" (conservative) like he's some deranged American.  Same guy is appalled by people getting a pension while living offshore, and will soon himself travel around Australia in his campervan while getting the pension.  Does not seem to see the irony.  

 

Two, walked past Barker College on Sydney's North Shore.  Notice they are just commencing their next massive (expensive) improvement, having just recently completed a big new "junior school" block.  Development / land acquisition by them seems to have been non-stop since John Howard's Liberals starting throwing money at private schools.  

 

It occurs to me that handouts are fine for the wealthy side of society just so long as they are the ones receiving. 

[Brickbat]

Yes, the wealthy hand out....contribute to the economy , pay way more taxes, create jobs, and incur jealousy for their success after taking risks. ( tall poppy syndrome)

 

As Packer said, “ those who don’t look at ways to minimise their taxes need their heads read”

But I will agree ,our elected governments can do more to curb tax evasion and rorts. 

 

By the way, bleeding hearts, have some bloody pride in yourselves.

 

[Brickbat]

29 minutes ago, moojar said:

Couple of things happened to me this week that got me thinking.  

 

One, had dinner with friends - one of them refers to himself as "a Liberal" (conservative) like he's some deranged American.  Same guy is appalled by people getting a pension while living offshore, and will soon himself travel around Australia in his campervan while getting the pension.  Does not seem to see the irony.  

 

Two, walked past Barker College on Sydney's North Shore.  Notice they are just commencing their next massive (expensive) improvement, having just recently completed a big new "junior school" block.  Development / land acquisition by them seems to have been non-stop since John Howard's Liberals starting throwing money at private schools.  

 

It occurs to me that handouts are fine for the wealthy side of society just so long as they are the ones receiving. 

Throwing money at private schools ? 

But isn’t that where our bold and brightest young Australians study? 

 

Or would you rather our money thrown and wasted by Rudd ,thereby doing huge economic damage long term 

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/labor-spending-was-a-blow-to-economy-after-gfc-says-report/news-story/cf643cb89beac83cbdec6f27338556a7

[moojar]

54 minutes ago, Brickbat said:

Throwing money at private schools ? 

But isn’t that where our bold and brightest young Australians study? 

 

Or would you rather our money thrown and wasted by Rudd ,thereby doing huge economic damage long term 

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/labor-spending-was-a-blow-to-economy-after-gfc-says-report/news-story/cf643cb89beac83cbdec6f27338556a7

Quoting Rupert Murdoch's 'The Australian' in support of your anti-Labor sentiment?  Next you'll be calling left-leaning folk clichéd names!  Oh, you did.  

 

PM me your address and I'll send you a 'Make Australia Great Again' Trucker's cap for Christmas.  Nah, only joking - that would be a hand out.  

 

But seriously, this thread has been locked in the past due to political argument.  There's another thread for keyboard warriors - All Aussie Related Stuff (excluding the old age pension)

[Brickbat]

1 hour ago, moojar said:

Quoting Rupert Murdoch's 'The Australian' in support of your anti-Labor sentiment?  Next you'll be calling left-leaning folk clichéd names!  Oh, you did.  

 

PM me your address and I'll send you a 'Make Australia Great Again' Trucker's cap for Christmas.  Nah, only joking - that would be a hand out.  

 

But seriously, this thread has been locked in the past due to political argument.  There's another thread for keyboard warriors - All Aussie Related Stuff (excluding the old age pension)

It’s odd how you assume someone is left or right or devoted to any particular political party. My only interest is in seeing economic growth and prosperity. And contributing. 

 

More appropriate would be Make Australia Grate Again , as will be seen in this next economic collapse. That should bring out more whinghers , as the financial load increases and cutbacks implemented. Or burden our young with more debt.

 

[totally thaied up]

7 hours ago, Nemises said:

A Current Affair (Channel 9 Australia) are showing a segment tonight about Australian pensioners “living the dream” elsewhere in SE Asia.... Bali.

Moved so not to get off topic

Edited December 12, 2018 by totally thaied up

[Brickbat]

20 hours ago, Will27 said:

And?

Isn’t that the war cry? “ I am owed the pension as I paid my taxes”....So what about those who paid a hell of a lot more taxes , made some bucks, made contributions to society, and get no pension as they made enough to not pass the Means test

[Will27]

3 hours ago, Brickbat said:

Isn’t that the war cry? “ I am owed the pension as I paid my taxes”....So what about those who paid a hell of a lot more taxes , made some bucks, made contributions to society, and get no pension as they made enough to not pass the Means test

LOL

 

Don't know how you come to that conclusion from the word and.

Was just replying to your comment about people paying extra taxes and not being eligible.

I'm not on a pension or benefit, but if people are eligible, good for them.

 

So what about those who've paid a lot of tax and aren't eligible?

I'm sure given the choice, most would rather be in a position not to

claim the OAP due to having too much money.

 

Anyway, you've made your point.

No need to keep banging on about it.

 

We get it, you're wealthy, have paid a shitload of tax and can't get the OAP.

[Will27]

Hopefully, with the money saved they can knock on the head the 2 year rule

 

Pensions still paid to Australians who died overseas

 

The Federal Government believes it is paying welfare benefits to thousands of Australians who died while living overseas.

In a bid to claw back hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money, Social Services Minister Paul Fletcher will today announce that pensioners living overseas will have to provide a “proof of life” certificate every two years to keep receiving payments.

The measure will be unveiled in next week’s mid-year economic update, which will book $200 million in expected savings over four years from the clawback of funds that families of dead people are wrongfully receiving.

Mr Fletcher said that the Government expected to identify about 6000 Australians who were living overseas and lawfully receiving a pension but had since died.

The alarm was raised after a discrepancy was identified in the Government’s pension system, with the annual death rate among people aged over 80 living overseas on a pension about half that of pensioners in the same age bracket living in Australia.

“The most likely explanation is that a considerable number of Australians living overseas on a pension have now died but that has not been made known to the Australian Government and we are continuing to pay their pension,” Mr Fletcher told The West Australian.

“In some cases it could be fraud. In other cases it could be that the former Australian pensioner’s family incorrectly think that they remain entitled to receive the pension formerly paid to their loved one.”

Mr Fletcher said people over the age of 80 receiving the age pension, disability support pension, widow B pension, wife pension or carer payment while living overseas would be required to provide “proof of life” documents every two years from July 1.

Under the legislation, which is yet to pass Parliament, affected pensioners would have 13 weeks to demonstrate they were eligible before payments would be suspended and eventually cancelled.

Mr Fletcher described the proposed system, which will affect about 25,000 Australian pensioners, as “simple and fair”.

There are about 96,000 Australian pensioners living permanently overseas in more than 100 countries, most of them on the age pension.

The top five countries are Italy (30 per cent), Greece (19 per cent), the Netherlands (6.5 per cent), Spain (6.5 per cent) and New Zealand (5.5 per cent).

Proof of life certificates are used by the United Kingdom and Italy and can be verified by an international Justice of the Peace, magistrate, physician or Australian official at an embassy, consulate or high commission.

[Artisi]

14 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Hopefully, with the money saved they can knock on the head the 2 year rule

 

Pensions still paid to Australians who died overseas

 

The Federal Government believes it is paying welfare benefits to thousands of Australians who died while living overseas.

In a bid to claw back hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money, Social Services Minister Paul Fletcher will today announce that pensioners living overseas will have to provide a “proof of life” certificate every two years to keep receiving payments.

The measure will be unveiled in next week’s mid-year economic update, which will book $200 million in expected savings over four years from the clawback of funds that families of dead people are wrongfully receiving.

Mr Fletcher said that the Government expected to identify about 6000 Australians who were living overseas and lawfully receiving a pension but had since died.

The alarm was raised after a discrepancy was identified in the Government’s pension system, with the annual death rate among people aged over 80 living overseas on a pension about half that of pensioners in the same age bracket living in Australia.

“The most likely explanation is that a considerable number of Australians living overseas on a pension have now died but that has not been made known to the Australian Government and we are continuing to pay their pension,” Mr Fletcher told The West Australian.

“In some cases it could be fraud. In other cases it could be that the former Australian pensioner’s family incorrectly think that they remain entitled to receive the pension formerly paid to their loved one.”

Mr Fletcher said people over the age of 80 receiving the age pension, disability support pension, widow B pension, wife pension or carer payment while living overseas would be required to provide “proof of life” documents every two years from July 1.

Under the legislation, which is yet to pass Parliament, affected pensioners would have 13 weeks to demonstrate they were eligible before payments would be suspended and eventually cancelled.

Mr Fletcher described the proposed system, which will affect about 25,000 Australian pensioners, as “simple and fair”.

There are about 96,000 Australian pensioners living permanently overseas in more than 100 countries, most of them on the age pension.

The top five countries are Italy (30 per cent), Greece (19 per cent), the Netherlands (6.5 per cent), Spain (6.5 per cent) and New Zealand (5.5 per cent).

Proof of life certificates are used by the United Kingdom and Italy and can be verified by an international Justice of the Peace, magistrate, physician or Australian official at an embassy, consulate or high commission.

No problems for dead Aussie in Thailand, your local Dr will sign anything put in front of them ????

[Brickbat]

10 hours ago, Will27 said:

LOL

 

Don't know how you come to that conclusion from the word and.

Was just replying to your comment about people paying extra taxes and not being eligible.

I'm not on a pension or benefit, but if people are eligible, good for them.

 

So what about those who've paid a lot of tax and aren't eligible?

I'm sure given the choice, most would rather be in a position not to

claim the OAP due to having too much money.

 

Anyway, you've made your point.

No need to keep banging on about it.

 

We get it, you're wealthy, have paid a shitload of tax and can't get the OAP.

You keep missing the point, mate. It’s not about me. It’s about contributing to the nation’s prosperity. That’s a Win Win 

[4MyEgo]

On 12/13/2018 at 12:40 PM, Brickbat said:

You keep missing the point, mate. It’s not about me. It’s about contributing to the nation’s prosperity. That’s a Win Win 

For who, we live abroad, while Centrelink throws money at single mothers with 9 kids, most to different fathers, the grandmother looking after a hand full, and the current partner can't or she won't let him move in as it will affect her steady income stream of about $11,000 per child per annum on Family A & B payments, not including any other payment she gets.

 

The system is flawed and is weighing heavily on the taxpayers.

 

I am fully aware that the OAP is not for those that have paid taxes and have money, such as myself, i.e. well over the assets tests, and those who unfortunately believe its a hand out because they paid taxes is only going to bite them in the butt when the time comes, i.e. unless they have as we say squat or Jack $hit when the time comes, as the OAP was designed to support the needy, even someone who hadn't worked or paid a single cent in taxes is entitled to the OAP as long as they have lived in the country for x amount of years, 35 years last I checked to receive the full OAP, yep no need to have worked and paid taxes, just lived in the lucky country for the period/s to receive a full or part pension.

 

As for paying taxes all our lives, well there is this thing called superannuation, I call that my pension and the sale of property, both now invested, I mean we all worked our lives, some casually, others hard, others two or three jobs and invested so as to have something at our retirement age, personally, if the government was to say, the pension is for all, which ain't gonna happen, I would put my hand up because everybody else is milking the system and a lot of people wouldn't have paid a single cent in taxes.

 

There is no honesty out there, it's everyone for themselves, especially the imports who have 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, kids and 4 wives.

 

I could have kept working, was on a good wicket getting 6 figures, but by the time you worked out the taxes, the medicare levy, cost of living in Sydney Vs selling up, cashing in on your superannuation and investing your money, unleashing a tax free burden from 55 years of age works for me living in the land of smiles, warts and all, i.e. I have been free for 3 years and Australia is no longer the lucky country IMO in case no one has noticed, i.e. unless your an import with hands out.

 

Australia owes me nothing and I owe Australia nothing, although it is and will remain home for me if things go south here in Thailand, but there are so many other options out there too.

 

For the record, I am all for people receiving the pension if they paid taxes while they worked, although that is not was it was intended for, said that already, but just to be clear, it is not an entitlement. 

 

Those living in Bali and the likes should really be looking at what residency status they have and if they have property, what the tax implications, and capital gains tax they will pay, especially if their status changes to non residency status.

Edited December 18, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

On 12/11/2018 at 9:35 AM, ubon farang said:

Ok I was In aus In april and went to see Centrlink/ I cant get my pension till I am 67 which is sad because I have worked for over 35 years in Aus and paid huge taxes. I was born in March 1957 so its 67 The impression I got you must be in australia to lodge your pension claim and also reside there for 2 years to prove your residency Am I wrong? But someone else told me if you have worked lived and paid taxes in australia for more than 25 years that rule dont apply to you? But another low down act by the Aus government by attacking pensioners is that if you are married to a younger Thai lady they deem her to able to earn money so they start taking money off your pension You loose all the supplements etc also. In honest truth you think australia would get into a social sucurity agreement with Thailand where they know most ex pats live? They have those sorts of agreements with countries like holland  finland   lol  But as the lady said in centrelink Dont panic because when it is time for you to collect the pension the rules would of changed again. Wise words

100% correct - 1%

 

The 25 years would for a part pension, but you still have to be 67 or more, depending on the year you were born, but you have covered that.

Edited December 18, 2018 by 4MyEgo