Financial Self Sufficiency From The Land

[JungleBiker]

We used Paracot but the guy who spayed suggested we use Gumokzone (spelling ?) for any futher applications.

Hi Saiyan,

You used paraquat, the guy suggested gramoxone. Actually they are the same

Gramoxone is the trade name of the product and paraquat is the common name of the active ingredient in Gramoxone.

See manufacturer's web site: http://www.syngenta.com/en/products_servic...oxone_page.aspx

It's toxic stuff (supposed to wear face shield, gloves, etc) so it's probably good you got somebody else to spray it.

See following for safety info: http://dkt.net.au/msdsfiles/gramoxone%20250.pdf

Regarding Khonwan's comments about governments rethinking biofuels, there are already signs of this happening in the EU where environmental groups are complaining (e.g. see recent article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtm...biofuel114.xml)

But as Khonwan says it may take a while for that to affect prices here, who knows?

About yields and variety - perhaps some of those links I posted earlier have some answers but I do believe that you may have a superior variety to what Khonwan has. I wonder what variety Khonwan is growing? Perhaps a Kasetsart variety? If we get the names of Khonwan's variety then we can Google for results of research work.

JB.

Edited January 18, 2008 by JungleBiker

[JungleBiker]

This paper has some information about the different cassava varieties grown in Thailand: http://www.doa.go.th/fieldcrops/res/0949-3.pdf

[billd766]

This paper has some information about the different cassava varieties grown in Thailand: http://www.doa.go.th/fieldcrops/res/0949-3.pdf

Thanks for that link.

We have about 16 rai in 2 plots and have been growing cassava fo at least 4 years. KhonWan is only about 26 km away from me directly on the other side of Mae Wong national park but 65km by road and I pick his brain when possible but my wife is not such a good farmer yet and I have what is known in growing circles as the "black finger". basically if my wife does things with plants they grow but if I try they shrivel up and die.

I am going to try to get 1 plot this year on a 1 year cycle and the other on a 2 year cycle after which they will both be on a 2 year cycle to get the best crop every year.

[torrenova]

Thanks for all the comments.

To Khonwan, I am sorrry but I do not receive emails through this board since I had problems a couple of months ago. My apologies for that.

As to the 10k quoted. I used that figure purely for ease of mathematics (300,000/30 = 10,000). Your invaluable comments have provided the analysis I needed to work out a rate of return which I was looking for. Now armed with those figures, I can work out what I would be prepared to pay for the land.

One last thing if I may indulge you further, am I right in thinking that I would have to buy these things in at 25% coverage (so for 40 rai I'd have to purchase 10 rai worth as initial investment) ? Then the annual costs are about Bt1000 per rai with harvesting another Bt1000 per rai ?

Please correct me if I am way off base here. Also, is this a very low maintenance "plant and wait" crop or does it need regular maintenance and thus, regular costs if not doing it oneself ?

Thanks.

[Khonwan]

....I wonder what variety Khonwan is growing?

JB.

Hi JungleBiker

We are currently growing Rayong 5, Rayong 7, Rayong 9 and Huay Bong.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Khonwan]

Thanks for all the comments.

To Khonwan, I am sorrry but I do not receive emails through this board since I had problems a couple of months ago. My apologies for that.

As to the 10k quoted. I used that figure purely for ease of mathematics (300,000/30 = 10,000). Your invaluable comments have provided the analysis I needed to work out a rate of return which I was looking for. Now armed with those figures, I can work out what I would be prepared to pay for the land.

One last thing if I may indulge you further, am I right in thinking that I would have to buy these things in at 25% coverage (so for 40 rai I'd have to purchase 10 rai worth as initial investment) ? Then the annual costs are about Bt1000 per rai with harvesting another Bt1000 per rai ?

Please correct me if I am way off base here. Also, is this a very low maintenance "plant and wait" crop or does it need regular maintenance and thus, regular costs if not doing it oneself ?

Thanks.

Hi Torrenova

Thanks for your comments.

As a general rule, yes, you shall need to purchase 10 rai worth of stems to plant 40 rai. That relates to standing cassava trees of around 2 metres tall; you should require more if you were cutting shorter trees. You should make sure you have an excess (or at least access to more) to replace any plantlets that do not sprout (the faster you plant them the fewer shall need to be replaced but they are often left for 30 days or so awaiting the first sign of rain before being planted) . After harvesting the trees, plough a small piece of land (or use a shovel if you like) where you wish to stand the stems. This is to bring the moisture up to the top. Stand the stems up in the same up-right direction that they grew (eyes up). Provide shade for the stems.

The cost per rai of trees I feel, is going to vary a lot in different areas. We tend to obtain ours (when changing variety) from friends for free, and similarly give ours to other friends for free. My wife has just told me that Huay Bong were commanding a price of B4,000 per rai cut last year! There is an abundance of supply this year, but also a lot more land be cultivated with cassava so I’m not sure how costs are going this year – I’ll ask in my village later today. Perhaps some others (Saiyan?) will tell us what they have paid.

With your own land and own tractor, you should expect costs during the first two-three months of around B1,900 per rai (tilling, planting, fertilising, weeding). As a new starter you will also have the cost of purchasing your stems and associated cutting costs. The cost per rai of trees I feel are going to vary a lot in different areas. We tend to obtain ours (when changing variety) from friends for free, and similarly give ours to other friends for free. My wife has just told me that Huay Bong trees commanded a local price of B4,000 per rai cut last year! There is an abundance of supply of cassava trees this year, but also a lot more land being cultivated with cassava so I’m not sure how costs are going this year – I’ll ask in my village later today. This tree purchase is, of course, normally a one-off start-up cost. Should you wish to change variety in the future, you are likely to buy/obtain much fewer new stems and grow your stock yourself, gradually changing over to the new variety.

Perhaps useful to point out here, you should use the main stem rather than the branches for propagation.

Harvest costs are variable in that most of the expenses are costed on tonnage. Four tonne per rai should cost around B900 per rai; ten tonne around B1,900 per rai.

I have already put together a spreadsheet, which will allow folks to change their own parameters – just want to check some figures before I post it on the forum.

Cassava should be fertilized (50kg/rai) around one month after planting and once more (50kg/rai) 2-3 months after planting. Weeds should be kept down during the first 3-4 months. These are not difficult jobs. Apart from these tasks, there’s nothing much else to do. It really is a very easy crop to grow. Many Thais tend their cassava during this early period then go to Bangkok for construction or factory work before returning only at harvest time. It is very pest resistant (no pesticides required), and drought tolerant after the initial three months or so. You can harvest when it suits you (with consideration to the prevailing price and the weather) anytime 8 – 24 months; the longer you leave it, the greater the tuber yield.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Saiyan]

You used paraquat, the guy suggested gramoxone. Actually they are the same

Thanks Junlebiker for the spelling corections and the advice. Also for the links.

It's actualy much easier now that I know the real name.

[Saiyan]

The cost per rai of trees I feel, is going to vary a lot in different areas. We tend to obtain ours (when changing variety) from friends for free, and similarly give ours to other friends for free. My wife has just told me that Huay Bong were commanding a price of B4,000 per rai cut last year! There is an abundance of supply this year, but also a lot more land be cultivated with cassava so I'm not sure how costs are going this year – I'll ask in my village later today. Perhaps some others (Saiyan?) will tell us what they have paid.

We paid B30 per bunch and used 18 bunches per rai. Total B540 per rai for Rayong 7 stems.

[Khonwan]

We paid B30 per bunch and used 18 bunches per rai. Total B540 per rai for Rayong 7 stems.

Thanks Saiyan.

Just spoke with some villagers: Huay Bong sold locally for B2,000 per rai last year (not B4,000 as my wife thought). This variety was in very limited supply locally and therefore expensive. They do not yet know how much is being asked for this year.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Lickey]

Sorry folks, im getting a bit confused here, my mrs says the thai potatoe is mansapalang, it grows about 1 mtr tall and has a root/tuber like a huge ginger root, Tapioca [from my school days in UK ] was like a frogs spawn with little seeds floating in a glutinans mass, Cassava, is that some kind of weed grass? Thanks for any detailed answers, Lickey..

[torrenova]

Thanks Khonwan and all other who have contributed. I've got some thinking to do and some questions to ask in the village.

[pete_r]

Sorry folks, im getting a bit confused here, my mrs says the thai potatoe is mansapalang, it grows about 1 mtr tall and has a root/tuber like a huge ginger root, Tapioca [from my school days in UK ] was like a frogs spawn with little seeds floating in a glutinans mass, Cassava, is that some kind of weed grass? Thanks for any detailed answers, Lickey..

Manfarang = potato

Mansapalang = cassava = tapioca, a shrub 1-2m tall that produces large tubers from which starch is extracted.

The word manfarang evokes the idea of "farang potato" (literally farang tuber), so I can see how mansapalang could be called "Thai potato", by opposition to the "farang potato".

At work when I refer to the plant or the tubers, I tend to use "cassava", and when I refer to the starch extracted from the tuber or the products made with it, I tend to use "tapioca" (including the frog spawn... I didn't like it much when I was a kid). But both words seem interchangeable.

[Lickey]

Thanks Pete-r, all has become clear now, it just seemed a bit stange to me that my mrs had never heard of cassva or tapioca, the neighbours farm is 150 rai and is full with cassava !!! many other larger and smaller farms nearby too, so for the sake of the forum, its cassava now, not mansapalang, and thai potatoe when i chat farming with the mrs, thanks again Pete, cheers, lickey..

[pete_r]

I've just taken the time to scan a list of the main cassava varieties in Thailand, with short summaries of their characteristics. The document is from the Rayong Field Crops Research Center.

cassava_varieties_thailand.pdf

[Khonwan]

I recommend this 23-page article to anyone interested in cassava (I’ve just read it):

http://www.ciat.cgiar.org/downloads/pdf/cabi_09ch6.pdf

Rgds

Khonwan

[JungleBiker]

We are currently growing Rayong 5, Rayong 7, Rayong 9 and Huay Bong.

Yesterday I visited the agriculture fair at Khon Kaen Uni. They had 3 varieties on display, Rayong 7 and 9 and one that I don't think has been mentioned here called: CMR35-22-196. I was also interesting to see them growing peanuts between the rows of cassava; see pictures attached. Show ends Sunday.

Best regards,

JB.

[somo]

This thread has been brilliant and has answered nearly all the questions I had buzzing around in my head. My thanks to all the contributors but especially Khonwan

We have about 40 rai available to cultivate and my intention is to use just 10 rai initially for cassava to see how I get on and so I can learn from the first year’s mistakes!

Just have a couple of questions for those that have the experience.

The land we have has never been cultivated before so will I need to use fertilizer the first year?

What time of year is it best to plant? I am assuming just after the rains start. If so would it be best to harvest soon after the rains finish or leave it a full year? The reason I ask is that leaving it a full year means the crop goes through a full dry season just before harvesting and I worry it will dry out too much.

Having said that I want to use the plants from the first 10 rai to plant the other 30 rai (assuming the economics work out) and so need to harvest within a few weeks of the next planting.

Lastly is it possible to keep on cultivating cassava every year with proper fertilization or does the land need a rest every so often.

Regards

somo

[Maizefarmer]

We might come into some land in Non Suwan, Buriram, part of which is from her family and the other available to purchase (basically getting some extended family out from the burden of loan shark debt). The land for purchase is apparently arable land and has been only periodically farmed due to laziness and available cash from other avenues.

As a non farmer, who has only ever grown garden based vegetables and the like in the UK and Spain and helped in Japan, I do not have a great deal of knowledge to bring to the farming table I admit. However, I am loathed to leave any land unused whether it comes freely or is purchased. Therefore, I beg your help on the following questions (please throw in more information as well).

How do I assess what the land can be used for ?

Given the area, what would be the best use for the land ?

Given that I could not be there 24/7, what risks are there ?

Are short time growing crops better than long term investment ?

How do you work out the labour needed for preparation, planting, maintenance and getting the stuff out of the ground and off to market ?

And finally (for now), what size of plot / total area is needed to achieve reasonable economies of scale and how do you acquire that information ?

Cheers for your help, just a thought at this stage but if its going to generate some reasonable cash then I'd devote some time to it with a long term view to either developing it further or maintaining it as an asset for my daughter.

Nobody can answer your question Terranova – no-one, at least not with the information you have provided, but I can share with you how to go about getting answers to your questions:

How do I assess what the land can be used for?

First 2 things that are essential:

• Get a soil test done so that you understand the condition of the soil.

• Understand what farmers in that area grow.

This will give you platform on which you can start investigating the economics of growing various crops, and by that I mean: which crop will offer the best potential return for the given collective circumstances you propose to farm with.

Given the area, what would be the best use for the land?

That will be determined by a thorough understanding of crop economics on various scales – and this is where the homework and learning curve kicks in. You will have to invest some time collecting as much information as you can about what crops will grow in the soil & climate conditions you have, and learning to understand their potential returns for given cultivated amounts (the returns on crops vary significantly according to the amount you can cultivate - generally speaking, the larger the cultivated amount the better the return p/kg or whatever unit weight/volume it is sold in), the cost of labour required to prepare the land, to plant the crop, to cultivate it, then harvest it, and finally distribute and sell it, are all factors that will determine what your land is best used for.

Given that I could not be there 24/7, what risks are there?

Someone who you trust will have to keep an eye on things

Are short time growing crops better than long term investment?

It most cases yes – but not always. It’s a very broad question and emphasizes the need to do some homework.

How do you work out the labour needed for preparation, planting, maintenance and getting the stuff out of the ground and off to market ?

…back to what I said in reply to your 2nd question

And finally (for now), what size of plot / total area is needed to achieve reasonable economies of scale & how do you acquire that information?

…. and this is the point on which most ex-pat farmers come unstuck: failing to appreciate the economics of farming various crops on various scales in various conditions. Determine first what crops are sustainable given the soil and climate conditions you have, add to it the availability of water, versus what those crops will require – now, do your homework on the crop options to calculate the economics of those crops for various unit areas. Take all your info and calculate which one theory is best suited and offers the best potential return. To help you calculate this a starting point would be to speak to other farmers in the area to get an insight into what crop they grow, how they go about it, what it costs to grow and what their gross and netts are.

There 1 thing missing from all this that makes it impossible to offer any more than a generalised reply. You have not provided any information on the availability of water. Along with climate, water and all the above other considerations, water avalibility (and the cost of irrigation) is the one input that has the potential to determine whether or not cultivating any crop will be a success or failure.

This all may sound like a lot of work, but farming successfully in Thailand is a business like it is anywhere else in the wolrd which requires a solid understanding of all the inputs to make assessement that will come anywhere near to relfecting its viability and potential.

Forum members can share with you what crops they grow and what returns they achieve, but those figures have little meaning unless they are understood 100% against the background of the circumstances & conditions they experiance in growing their crops, and you can apply the exact same inputs at the same costs for your farming situation.

All the best