Starbucks/mcdonalds War

[wintermute]

Starbucks will be fine. McDonald's may get the Thai office workers, government employees, and expats, but Starbucks will continue to be popular with short term tourists and some wealthy expats, and with Thais willing to make a small investment in order to meet these people.

yeah right, the poor locals here save for months just for the rare opportunity to enter a starbucks and rub-shoulders with the who's who of expatdom. that is just about the most patronising thing said about locals i've read in a while.

you sir are a troll.

It's especially patronizing when you consider the fact that the few times i've entered into a starbucks in thailand it tends to be 95% middle class or well heeled thais congregating in groups and 5% expats with their "ladies of the night" having a cup.

[Gary A]

I'm so used to Nescafe instant with UHT sweet milk that anything else tastes strange. A friend of mine has a little Bon Cafe shop and my Nescafe tastes better than his fresh ground beans and brewed coffee.

[Wrong Turn]

Anyone tried the "gourmet" coffee in McD's? Absolutely awful so far. As for chains here, S&P's bluecup, Black Canyon and Cafe Nero I find much nicer than Starbucks.

Nothing personal but I believe the opposite of everything you just said.

Thai coffee chains should be considered some form of coffee genocide. I have never had a palatable cup in five years. Starbucks is better but it is for people who live with the illusion of price equals quality and or value.

Thank you Ronald for bringing affordable real coffee to Thailand.

I am from where Starbucks started. Stock was getting attention in 1992. This year, I think it's down about 50%.

There was a very talented marketing guy that created the theme of the stores, that appealed to customers. But since expanding, and changing some things, Starbucks apparently has lost of its "atmosphere." According to customer surveys, as well as Mr. Shultz, the CEO.

I always considered Starbucks coffee, to taste bad. I've never liked it. And yeah, in LOS I won't pay Starbuck prices for a corporate cup of coffee.

McD has great coffee.

[goatfarmer]

I have a feeling Starbucks may lose this one. The common 'office worker' doesn't give two craps about where his coffee is from as long as it's fresh, tastes good, and is reasonably priced.

Heck, the average starbucks customer doesn't give two craps about coffee, period. It's not about coffee, it's about being trendy.

And Starbucks are trendier than McDonalds, who's corporate mascotte is a scary clown, their marketing target is young kids.

I think Starbucks will be okay.

And no, I don't visit either of them either, especially not in Thailand, but I do find the marketing thinking behind such businesses very intriguing.

Starbucks' share price dropped 40% last year. CEO was fired. They are in deep latte.

[goatfarmer]

they do coffee in 7/11's so that'll do me....why pay stoopid prices for what is basically hot water and a bit coffe, sugar and milk....its all <deleted>

The true test of coffee is without the additives. If you put milk and sugar in, you might as well drink nescafe, or an old boot. McD's 'americano' as it is called in Latin style, is quite good.

As for stoopid prices, Flash has a point. 50 baht is still too expensive for what comes down to 2 baht's worth of beans and a bit of water, electricity, rent and labour. I thought McD could provide a greater margin than 10%, which is the margin by which they are undercutting SBUX. Perhaps another entrant might undercut them both!

[goatfarmer]

The atmosphere in McDonald's is so bad I wouldn't want to be there for more than a few minutes at a time. By atmosphere, I don't mean the service (with a smile =) or people--those are always great--but the whole smelling like vat of oil (which sticks to the clothes very strongly).

Good point. The stench of fat and salt is the usual hallmark of McD. The outlets are often cramped and noisy. But the one in Chidlom didn't suffer these problems. It was spacious and odourless. Perhaps they are attempting to improve their image.

[JSixpack]

Ambience yes.

Trendy yes.

Starbucks has that.

In the usa the Starbucks drive thrus are always stacked up so ambience and wireless I will give credit where credit is due but not all the credit.

Taste and consistancy does mean allot.

Starbucks has beed successfull in creating a network that guarantees you can go to any starbucks and consistantly get a good cup of coffee,Thailand or the usa or where ever.

Right.

I don't at all understand the Starbucks bashing. Gimme a break!

All Starbucks I've been in are very relaxing, clean, and pleasant places. The decor is so tasteful in contrast to, for example, the cartoonish plasticity of McDonalds. The staff are a better class than the rough McDonalds staff. Also I enjoy the great selection of music played at exactly the right volume. Go in Coffee World, for example, and the young Thais play what they like at unpleasant volumes. The coffee of the day is usually quite good and you have a selection anyway. I've never even thought of any "status" value to patronizing the place and I bet lots of people don't either. I just consider it a kind of civilized outpost--for a coffee shop--and a refuge from the outside chaos of Thailand.

[jetjock]

A friend of mine emailed me from MCD in Pattaya yesterday which prompted me to do a little research on internet availability at their restaurants. Apparently now over 15,000 of their restaurants now have wifi. They announced back in October that 1200 of their restaurants in UK would soon have wifi. They provide information on their website listed by city and country as to to the location of their restaurants and if they have wifi however Thailand locations are not listed. I cannot help but think that MCD will get many new customers now that someone can sit down with free wifi while drinking a premium cup of coffee as compared with Starbuck's paid wifi and higher prices. I would guess that free wifi may make a difference in a person's choice even if the coffee is about equal when comparing them. As for myself, I know that when I am traveling, I will now be making more stops at MCD for the added convenience and availability of their free wifi.

[jbUK]

Respectively, most of people are alreadey influenced by sbux. In Thailand if you say that you like to drink sbux because of the taste rather than the lifestyle or atmostphere, means that you don't know the proper espresso tastes like or the proper coffee taste like. however, they are willing to pay the same price as in US or even more....

In Thailand, sbux they are not putting so much effort to build the baristas skill as they did in the US or another big country. Moreover, one that saying the caramel capp from mcd is tastes chemically for me there is no surprise because they following the sbux frap. bev that using INSTANTarabica not FRESH coffee bean.

Well this all depends to your preferences just wanna speak the truth.

[t.s]

it is a shame people cannot see the irony in their own reverse snobbery.

[canuckamuck]

Had a meeting today at a Starbucks. They had the music on so loud we had to go out into the mall to have our conversation. So much for ambiance.

[Ulysses G.]

Ambience yes.

Trendy yes.

Starbucks has that.

In the usa the Starbucks drive thrus are always stacked up so ambience and wireless I will give credit where credit is due but not all the credit.

Taste and consistancy does mean allot.

Starbucks has beed successfull in creating a network that guarantees you can go to any starbucks and consistantly get a good cup of coffee,Thailand or the usa or where ever.

Right.

I don't at all understand the Starbucks bashing. Gimme a break!

All Starbucks I've been in are very relaxing, clean, and pleasant places. The decor is so tasteful in contrast to, for example, the cartoonish plasticity of McDonalds. The staff are a better class than the rough McDonalds staff. Also I enjoy the great selection of music played at exactly the right volume. Go in Coffee World, for example, and the young Thais play what they like at unpleasant volumes. The coffee of the day is usually quite good and you have a selection anyway. I've never even thought of any "status" value to patronizing the place and I bet lots of people don't either. I just consider it a kind of civilized outpost--for a coffee shop--and a refuge from the outside chaos of Thailand.

A lot of stupid people like pretending to be too good for places that they can't afford.

I wonder if they really think that anyone really buys their pretentous B.S.?

[Jingthing]

I can afford Starbucks and do think they serve some of the best brewed coffee in Thailand which says more about Thailand than Starbucks. However, I am too cheap to go there while at home in Pattaya. It galls me that they charge more in dollar terms for their coffee drinks here than the US, while paying their labor what, maybe 1/10th at most? So I won't support them.

On the other hand, if Peets opened a shop here, I would swallow all my objections and rush out to buy coffee drinks and beans there. Because when something is good enough, nothing else matters, you gotta have it. For some, Starbucks reaches that level. Not for me.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jimjim]

I can't believe you all are going on about Starbucks and McDonalds. How boring can you get? Unbelievable.

[Jingthing]

I can't believe you all are going on about Starbucks and McDonalds. How boring can you get? Unbelievable.

You are bloody right. (Blush, shame, red face, fart ...)

[jonniebkk]

On the other hand, if Peets opened a shop here, I would swallow all my objections and rush out to buy coffee drinks and beans there.

Don't remind me of beloved Peets Coffee...one of the major draws for me if i ever decided to return to the Bay Area

I had a great cup of java from the coffee stand at the no. pattaya bus station a while back and it was all of B 20. Just a couple weeks ago I was up in Kao Lak area and the mini-van made a pee-pee stop and the coffee stand there did a GREAT latte for B 35. You never know where you will get a great cup of joe

[whiterussian]

Not that i ever go to Starbucks, knowing they make 000% on a few coffee beans... this article caught my eye today:

As for Maccy D's - are they still getting beef from the ex Amazon rainforests? dam_n them all.

http://www.isrelate.com/pages/content/2/81...Supports-Israel

Starbucks Supports Israel

Posted: Fri 4th July 2008 9.33 AM | Author: Sam Hailes

Chairman, president and CEO of Starbucks, Howard Schultz is a Jew who actively supports Israel through his multi-million dollar company. 56 year-old Schultz has been part of Starbucks since 1982 when he joined as a Marketing Consultant. Starbucks currently serves 15 million customers a week with a variety of coffees, teas and snacks in nearly 4,000 stores worldwide. They also offer a range of Kosher and Fair trade products.

Schultz has helped with projects and seminars held in both Israel and North America, in which university students hear Israeli perspectives on the current Middle East tensions. In 1998 Schultz was honoured with "The Israel 50th Anniversary Friend of Zion Tribute Award" for his services in "playing a key role in promoting close alliance between the United States and Israel.” He has also been commended by those inside the Israeli Foreign Ministry.

Speaking in 2002 at a synagogue in Seattle, Howard Schultz warned his fellow Jews about the rise of anti-Semitism: "What is going on in the Middle East is not an isolated part of the world. The rise of anti-Semitism is at an all-time high since the 1930's…If you leave this synagogue tonight and go back to your home and ignore this, then shame on us” he said.

Starbucks even opened 6 stores in Israel, teaming up with Shalom Coffee Ltd. However Starbucks were forced to pull out of the deal in 2003 due to ‘operational challenges.’ Schultz continues to support Israel and plans to take his company back to the Land in the future.

Edited January 14, 2009 by whiterussian

[njpski]

Starbucks v McDonalds - on coffee??????????????????

if either sell a decent brew, I would be surprised

anyway we can only hope that Mutually Assured Destruction occurs

[bkkjames]

Not that i ever go to Starbucks, knowing they make 000% on a few coffee beans... this article caught my eye today:

As for Maccy D's - are they still getting beef from the ex Amazon rainforests? dam_n them all.

http://www.isrelate.com/pages/content/2/81...Supports-Israel

Starbucks Supports Israel

Posted: Fri 4th July 2008 9.33 AM | Author: Sam Hailes

Chairman, president and CEO of Starbucks, Howard Schultz is a Jew who actively supports Israel through his multi-million dollar company. 56 year-old Schultz has been part of Starbucks since 1982 when he joined as a Marketing Consultant. Starbucks currently serves 15 million customers a week with a variety of coffees, teas and snacks in nearly 4,000 stores worldwide. They also offer a range of Kosher and Fair trade products.

Schultz has helped with projects and seminars held in both Israel and North America, in which university students hear Israeli perspectives on the current Middle East tensions. In 1998 Schultz was honoured with "The Israel 50th Anniversary Friend of Zion Tribute Award" for his services in "playing a key role in promoting close alliance between the United States and Israel.” He has also been commended by those inside the Israeli Foreign Ministry.

Speaking in 2002 at a synagogue in Seattle, Howard Schultz warned his fellow Jews about the rise of anti-Semitism: "What is going on in the Middle East is not an isolated part of the world. The rise of anti-Semitism is at an all-time high since the 1930's…If you leave this synagogue tonight and go back to your home and ignore this, then shame on us” he said.

Starbucks even opened 6 stores in Israel, teaming up with Shalom Coffee Ltd. However Starbucks were forced to pull out of the deal in 2003 due to ‘operational challenges.’ Schultz continues to support Israel and plans to take his company back to the Land in the future.

And what is your point - that Jews like coffee? I am not Jewish but enjoy coffee alot. Espresso only, italian beans preferred. Did you know that the italian coffee industry supported the nazis in the second world war? Each day before battle, each soldier was giving a shot of expresso and sent off to battle.

It is said that coffee and politics don't mix. I say don't blame the coffee - blame the mix.

[Jingthing]

Before the Starbucks explosion in the US, you couldn't even get a shot of espresso in most areas of the country. I am not a big fan of their overall quality (its not bad, not great) but they did change the coffee culture in the US and much of the world that didn't already have a coffee culture. So what if the CEO Starbucks supports Israel? He is a free American and can do whatever he pleases with his money, thank you very much.

[whiterussian]

the italian coffee industry supported the nazis in the second world war

Good point.

I have many Jewish friends in the UK, but they dont contribute to the US/Israeli mess in the middle east.

Just like i wont touch Dominoes pizzas, because the owner is Christian fundamentalist.

Its about informed choice. Some might argue that the American system is too far gone with corporate/government mix and only leads to homogenisation and monopoly, eventually to dictatorship and the end of the the 'free' world.

All because you spent 60 baht on a Starbucks.

Edited January 14, 2009 by whiterussian

[bkkjames]

the italian coffee industry supported the nazis in the second world war

Good point.

I have many Jewish friends in the UK, but they dont contribute to the US/Israeli mess in the middle east.

Just like i wont touch Dominoes pizzas, because the owner is Christian fundamentalist.

Its about informed choice.

no offense mate, but hate to be you. just out of curiosity, do you do as much due diligence regarding thai companies / products and their political affiliations?

[whiterussian]

The sub title of this thread is "capitalism in action - consumer benefits"

The benefits to the consumer here i guess is more choice, cheaper prices.

However, if you look at the detriments to the consumer in the long run - either by supporting McDonalds destruction of primary rainforests

see: http://www.google.com/search?q=macdonald+r...amp;startPage=1

or

by supporting a company in your own opinion props up a dangerous relationship ( the influence of corporate giants and lobbies on government ) as the majority of US companies are known to do... either with dictators or pariah states.

Anyway, no in answer to your question of dilligence, no, i dont here in Thailand, but if they do start selling arms with profits from my Somtam, i will move to another provider.

In the same way, i dont have a mobile phone, not until the brain cancer link is investigated... but yes, the huge mobile phone tower a block away from me, above a Thai friends house DOES concern me of her safety and that of her new baby.

enjoy your coffee!

Edited January 14, 2009 by whiterussian

[bkkjames]

In the same way, i dont have a mobile phone, not until the brain cancer link is investigated... but yes, the huge mobile phone tower a block away from me, above a Thai friends house DOES concern me of her safety and that of her new baby.

enjoy your coffee!

let me guess, the Kinks are your all-time favorite band?

as for the mobile phones and towers and cancer and all that, drink more coffee - mate, lots of free-radical fighting anti-oxidants in each cup.

[polecat]

I say don't blame the coffee - blame the mix.

Hey! Leave the Irish out of it!

Begorrah, to be sure, fiddledy-dee etc

[bkkjames]

I say don't blame the coffee - blame the mix.

Hey! Leave the Irish out of it!

Begorrah, to be sure, fiddledy-dee etc

paranoia self destoy ya.... it's in your head, your head

[Jimjim]

Good gravy almighty, I could care less about how McDonald's and Starbucks compete with each other. About as foreign to Thailand as apple pie. Great to see this mindless topic about two huge corporations doing battle with each other. Isn't it great? Who the F cares?

[t.s]

seriously, who gives a sh#t?

[t.s]

The sub title of this thread is "capitalism in action - consumer benefits"

The benefits to the consumer here i guess is more choice, cheaper prices.

However, if you look at the detriments to the consumer in the long run - either by supporting McDonalds destruction of primary rainforests

see: http://www.google.com/search?q=macdonald+r...amp;startPage=1

or

by supporting a company in your own opinion props up a dangerous relationship ( the influence of corporate giants and lobbies on government ) as the majority of US companies are known to do... either with dictators or pariah states.

Anyway, no in answer to your question of dilligence, no, i dont here in Thailand, but if they do start selling arms with profits from my Somtam, i will move to another provider.

In the same way, i dont have a mobile phone, not until the brain cancer link is investigated... but yes, the huge mobile phone tower a block away from me, above a Thai friends house DOES concern me of her safety and that of her new baby.

enjoy your coffee!

and you enjoy the view from under the bed. suggested reading

[JoeThePoster]

I think Starbucks should retaliate by serving horrible food.

It's been a year, but I gather that you haven't tried their quiche yet.

Edited January 14, 2009 by JoeThePoster