Long Term Financial Planning For Dependents

[GuestHouse]

Expanding on the theme of an earlier response I made to a question on 'is X amount enough to retire at 50', there is the issue of providing and protecting income for wives, children and other dependents.

A consideration for many is where a wife may be many years younger than the husband and infant or young children born to the bread winning (providing) father in his own old age.

I'd be interested to hear how TV members have addressed this issue, or indeed if they have.

[meom]

You make me cry Guesthouse

Being a sucker for love I always put the well being of honey first meaning the house is in her name, the land is in her name, the cars are in her name plus several savings accounts containing altogether 10 mil (baht) are in her name as well.

All things considered I guess she won't have to worrie the coming years while I'm slaving away trying to build up my own retirement fund.

She's 5 years older btw so I might inherit some back in the future

[Khun ?]

Think you may be looking for a trust as your wife and child being beneficiaries.

Believe you can set it up where the trust pays out so much each year upon your death.

[Chang_paarp]

Think you may be looking for a trust as your wife and child being beneficiaries.

Believe you can set it up where the trust pays out so much each year upon your death.

Guesthouse is well aware that there are no trust laws in Thailand, and can speak authoritatively on the relevant laws and accounts available in several other countries.

I think this thread is to generate thought in the TV community as to how to ensure the a long term peace of mind reguarding loved ones.

I look forward to some informed responses.

[PattayaParent]

Make a Will.

[Naam]

Expanding on the theme of an earlier response I made to a question on 'is X amount enough to retire at 50', there is the issue of providing and protecting income for wives, children and other dependents.

A consideration for many is where a wife may be many years younger than the husband and infant or young children born to the bread winning (providing) father in his own old age.

I'd be interested to hear how TV members have addressed this issue, or indeed if they have.

a highly interesting topic albeit not for everybody. it all depends on personal circumstances and i can only speak for myself. unluckily my wife is not many years younger than me. very unluckily we lost our only son and (at that time) sole heir 2½ years ago. what we did was putting all our assets (except immobile property in Thailand) in a trust with the jurisdiction Singapore. the trustees however will only act in case of both my wife's and my demise. the advantage of an offshore trust in a civilised jurisdiction like Singapore is that no bloody national law concerning heritage can be applied (our heirs live in different jurisdictions).

Singapore honours the will of those who insist on disposing their wealth as they (freaking) please. in case of our demise the trust will also transfer the percentage of holdings (fixed in our will) to bank accounts already established for each individual heir. it will then be up to the discretion of the said individual heir to declare his share, pay inheritance tax and in future income tax on the proceeds or remain anonymous and enjoy the proceeds from offshore tax free. whether the latter will be possible in years to come remains to be seen.

running cost of a setup like this is around 3,600 US-Dollars per annum. execution of will and disposal of assets another lump sum of US-Dollars 8,500.

[LoveDaBlues]

Well I'm 51 and the wife is 27. We have a 6 week old baby girl. In the near future I want to build a really nice house. This will serve 2 purposes. A nice place for us now and a good asset and place for her to live after I croak. We've got over 5 rai currently which grows enough rice to feed us and the extended family each year. (No, we don't just eat rice but the wife and her family do eat it with every meal and it saves some baht over buying in the store). I should be around (I hope) long enough to see the baby get a good education. Over the next few years I want to set up some sort of business here to generate enough baht to pay our bills. That way my savings don't get touched and can just grow in the US.

I live in Udon Thani and the low cost to live is amazing. Once the car(s) and home are paid for you can live well(not just survive) on 30K baht a month. I don't know how I could spend 45K baht a month with the essentials paid for. I have a friend here (smart, educated, tightwad) who currently spends around 15K baht a month. His home and car are paid for. I'm not interested in the tourist destinations so Udon suits me fine. I live a simple life but do eat out often. I don't smoke and drink little. We have a maid come in 3 days a week and we pay her 700 baht a week (a little more than the local average).

I think it is possible to generate income here. It can be done in farming IF you have enough dosh to do it on a large scale basis. Also you have to keep up with trends on what to grow. It is a major help if you can involve relatives in the business and they are reliable. Fortunately I have such relatives. I think one of the secrets is to GO SLOW and not make any moves until you are VERY CONFIDENT you will be successful.

I think I've got a 'keeper' with my wife. Hopefully she will look after me when I'm an old fart and she's still relatively young. She is a fantastic mom and takes care of our little angel (sometimes little devil lol) to the highest degree.

I am currently spending around 1 million baht to renovate/expand the in-laws place. The work will be finished in about 3 weeks. Does this make me a 'sucker'? Perhaps to some on this forum but it's something I wanted to do and I'm happy with my decision to do it. AND....it's sure nice when we visit the in-laws to have a real bed and warm-water shower rather than sleeping on the floor and bathing with a bucket of cold water.

I've never regretted coming to Thailand from the States. I guess my biggest concern is will the Thai government let me stay; no one knows for sure? BTW, I have enough income to live in either place.

[fletchsmile]

Expanding on the theme of an earlier response I made to a question on 'is X amount enough to retire at 50', there is the issue of providing and protecting income for wives, children and other dependents.

A consideration for many is where a wife may be many years younger than the husband and infant or young children born to the bread winning (providing) father in his own old age.

I'd be interested to hear how TV members have addressed this issue, or indeed if they have.

Interesting topic for me. I feel I've enough to retire as a single guy. I'm married tho' so have have to ensure enough for a married guy. We're also OK on this score too.

My main concern tho' would be my children. Based on average life expectancies I'd hope to see them into their 30's / 40's at least, before I'm done. So all things equal I don't think it's too much of an issue if they are UK based. My thinking is slightly different here in Thailand tho'.

In the UK, I think bringing your kids up thru until the end of education, is enough or better put "an acceptable minimum". After that it's easier for them to stand on their own two feet and earn a good salary according to their merit. There's also the state system for them to fall back on in terms of health, periods of unemployment, disability, etc. While not ideal, the state systme is there to look after them (if needed) when you can't.

On the other hand in Thailand, there's no state fall back. It's also less of a meritocracy. I also want my children to have the choice between international or Thai, and while moving from UK to Thailand is easier financially, moving Thailand to UK is not, if they've been builiding a career and money on Thai levels. Hence in Thailand I feel I want to make sure children have enough for their lifetimes should they need it. This contrasts with UK, where I think bringing into adulthood is enough. Given our daughter is not yet 2 that's a long time!

How will I provide for this? Mainly diversified, regular equity-based savings. When you're talking 18yr 30yrs 40yrs or more: I believe they provide the best overal returns, and the time frame minimises risk of timing issues.

Edited January 14, 2008 by fletchsmile

[rgs2001uk]

Expanding on the theme of an earlier response I made to a question on 'is X amount enough to retire at 50', there is the issue of providing and protecting income for wives, children and other dependents.

A consideration for many is where a wife may be many years younger than the husband and infant or young children born to the bread winning (providing) father in his own old age.

I'd be interested to hear how TV members have addressed this issue, or indeed if they have.

well gh, i didnt agree with your 50 is too young to retire remark, but thats another topic.

we are always being told this is thailand and we should do things the thai way and respect local customs, with that in mind, we shouldnt have a problem, it all starts with the selection process.

if you married outside the normal thai parameters i can see where problems may arise, this has been flogged to death in other forums, money grabbing in laws, financial irresponsibility etc.

what is mine is my wifes and what is hers is mine, we are both enjoying life knowing we are relying on no one else, also safe in the knowledge the other has nothing to worry about when the other goes first.

as for other dependants, i will leave them the same as my father left me, the whole wide world, no one will be driving around in a fancy car, frittering away what we both struggled and sacrificed to earn.

[Khun Jean]

My 'solution' is real estate. A few in my home country a few here and maybe a few elsewhere later.

The main houses in my home country are still mortgaged but with a live insurance that will pay the whole lot if something bad happens to me. Tenants are paying the mortgage and then some.

In the mean time i have to educate the children and when they are old enough learn them as much about real estate as possible. They will have a small portfolio to begin with and hopefully after the 'lessons' will not blow it away.

My calculation shows that in about 20 years most of them will be mortgage free and will still have tenants.

It should be able to earn about 10-12000 euro a month.

Not bad for an initial investment of 2000 euro i would think.

And a big thank you to the tenants to pay for the mortgages.

[Khun ?]

Think you may be looking for a trust as your wife and child being beneficiaries.

Believe you can set it up where the trust pays out so much each year upon your death.

Guesthouse is well aware that there are no trust laws in Thailand, and can speak authoritatively on the relevant laws and accounts available in several other countries.

I think this thread is to generate thought in the TV community as to how to ensure the a long term peace of mind reguarding loved ones.

I look forward to some informed responses.

Why would anyone set up a trust in Thailand. Does anyone have all their savings and assetss in Thailand

and will GH not have his family under his home country citizenship at some point. I was thinking more of

a offshore trust or home country trust. The trust would fall under the laws of where it is set up not some back assward place

as thailand that would more appreciate everyone send their dependants and love interest the money and not set foot on

their precious country.

I am sure many of us that can afford to live just as well if not better with more to offer in a stable and advanced infastructure country such as our home country be of more on the priority. You can also stipulate this in the trust that

if such beneficiares do live in Thailand the amount that will be paid out will at whatever amount.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Khun ?

[torrenova]

One thing I needed to take care of after my daughter was born was to make sure that if I depart first my daughter could not be disadvantaged by just leaving cash for my family and having either my wife spend it or someone else come along and bleed her dry.

I have assets outside Thailand held in trust but leaving an income rather then just assets is more important, at least for the next 20 years or so.

[JSixpack]

Good topic this. Problem is that after your demise, your Thai family will probably not be able to manage your assets as wisely as you did. Bad "investments" will quickly disspate the wealth. Relatives will descend and grab all they can for their various pressing "needs."

Best idea I've heard here is the Singapore trust idea, since unfortunately Thailand has no such legal entity. I've thought for years about setting up something like that. But it's prohibitively expensive unless you have a very large estate, probably larger than many of us here own.

Be nice if there was a cheaper but comparable option.

[Naam]

One thing I needed to take care of after my daughter was born was to make sure that if I depart first my daughter could not be disadvantaged by just leaving cash for my family and having either my wife spend it or someone else come along and bleed her dry.

I have assets outside Thailand held in trust but leaving an income rather then just assets is more important, at least for the next 20 years or so.

initially we planned too that in case of both our demise no assets but only income is distributed. but this would cause prohibitively high running expenses when the will is executed. a separate board of trustees would not only distribute the income but meet quarterly, supervise and instruct the bank how assets should be handled, bought, sold, shifted, whatever... to make a long story short, in our case fees of 2% per annum would be charged -based on net asset value- no matter whether profit or loss is achieved. in one word: ridiculous!

[torrenova]

If I end up with a house in Thailand (which is an aim via a mortgage in the wife's name so my downside is the deposit), then I'd really need to protect that for my daughter. I haven't looked into the legality yet as it is not an issue but either placing it in my daughter's name excluding her mother from selling it or drawing any finance against it or having a long term loan (what would be an initial 2nd charge then 1st charge once the mortgage was paid off) seem the starting points for investigation.

The last thing I want is to have someone sell the house and leave my daughter in the shit which is exactly what some of these lovely Thai people will do without a moments thought.

[sonicdragon]

Since my wife has assets of her own in excess of mine, my main consideration is provision for our children. To this end, all my assets in the UK and Australia (unencumbered investment properties and financial investments) are held in trust. Financial assets in Hong Kong are left by will to a HK trust of which the children are beneficiaries, with provision to transfer and/or sell the assets and/or income at certain times in the future to provide for their education and so on. We own an appartment in HK in joint names, and that would go to her. We also have some property in Thailand but the values are insignificant compared to the rest and is mostly in my wife's name anyway.