Peak Oil, What Happens When We Run Out Of Oil?

[meom]

Something to do about nuking a certain nuclear facility.

Anyway nothing to do with Thailand so better leave it at that.

[lannarebirth]

Anyone familiar with thermogenerators? Gonna change the world I think.

most of our power on planet Klingon is generated by them. unfortunately you earthlings are a couple of centuries behind us

We're catching up fast. Breakthroughs coming at warp speed these days:

Solar-Power Breakthrough ~ "This discovery is simply groundbreaking"

Researchers have found a cheap and easy way to store the energy made by solar power.

Thursday, July 31, 2008

By Kevin Bullis

Researchers have made a major advance in inorganic chemistry that could lead to a cheap way to store energy from the sun. In so doing, they have solved one of the key problems in making solar energy a dominant source of electricity.

Daniel Nocera, a professor of chemistry at MIT, has developed a catalyst that can generate oxygen from a glass of water by splitting water molecules. The reaction frees hydrogen ions to make hydrogen gas. The catalyst, which is easy and cheap to make, could be used to generate vast amounts of hydrogen using sunlight to power the reactions. The hydrogen can then be burned or run through a fuel cell to generate electricity whenever it's needed, including when the sun isn't shining.

Solar power is ultimately limited by the fact that the solar cells only produce their peak output for a few hours each day. The proposed solution of using sunlight to split water, storing solar energy in the form of hydrogen, hasn't been practical because the reaction required too much energy, and suitable catalysts were too expensive or used extremely rare materials. Nocera's catalyst clears the way for cheap and abundant water-splitting technologies.

Nocera's advance represents a key discovery in an effort by many chemical research groups to create artificial photosynthesis- -mimicking how plants use sunlight to split water to make usable energy. "This discovery is simply groundbreaking, " says Karsten Meyer, a professor of chemistry at Friedrich Alexander University, in Germany. "Nocera has probably put a lot of researchers out of business." For solar power, Meyer says, "this is probably the most important single discovery of the century."

The new catalyst marks a radical departure from earlier attempts. Researchers, including Nocera, have tried to design molecular catalysts in which the location of each atom is precisely known and the catalyst is made to last as long as possible. The new catalyst, however, is amorphous--it doesn't have a regular structure--and it's relatively unstable, breaking down as it does its work. But the catalyst is able to constantly repair itself, so it can continue working.

In his experimental system, Nocera immerses an indium tin oxide electrode in water mixed with cobalt and potassium phosphate. He applies a voltage to the electrode, and cobalt, potassium, and phosphate accumulate on the electrode, forming the catalyst. The catalyst oxidizes the water to form oxygen gas and free hydrogen ions. At another electrode, this one coated with a platinum catalyst, hydrogen ions form hydrogen gas. As it works, the cobalt-based catalyst breaks down, but cobalt and potassium phosphate in the solution soon re-form on the electrode, repairing the catalyst.

Nocera created the catalyst as part of a research program whose goal was to develop artificial photosynthesis that works more efficiently than photosynthesis and produces useful fuels, such as hydrogen. Nocera has solved one of the most challenging parts of artificial photosynthesis: generating oxygen from water. Two more steps remain. One is replacing the expensive platinum catalyst for making hydrogen from hydrogen ions with a catalyst based on a cheap and abundant metal, as Nocera has done with the oxygen catalyst.

Finding a cheaper catalyst for making hydrogen shouldn't be too difficult, says John Turner, a principal investigator at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, in Golden, CO. Indeed, Nocera says that he has promising new materials that might work, and other researchers also have likely candidates. The second remaining step in artificial photosynthesis is developing a material that absorbs sunlight, generating the electrons needed to power the water-splitting catalysts. That will allow Nocera's catalyst to run directly on sunlight; right now, it runs on electricity taken from an outlet.

There's also still much engineering work to be done before Nocera's catalyst is incorporated into commercial devices. It will, for example, be necessary to improve the rate at which his catalyst produces oxygen. Nocera and others are confident that the engineering can be done quickly because the catalyst is easy to make, allowing a lot of researchers to start working with it without delay. "The beauty of this system is, it's so simple that many people can immediately jump on it and make it better," says Thomas Moore, a professor of chemistry and biochemistry at Arizona State University.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21155/page2/

http://www.nextenergynews.com/

[jietjon]

Anyone familiar with thermogenerators? Gonna change the world I think.

most of our power on planet Klingon is generated by them. unfortunately you earthlings are a couple of centuries behind us

We're catching up fast. Breakthroughs coming at warp speed these days:

Solar-Power Breakthrough ~ "This discovery is simply groundbreaking"

Researchers have found a cheap and easy way to store the energy made by solar power.

Thursday, July 31, 2008

By Kevin Bullis

Researchers have made a major advance in inorganic chemistry that could lead to a cheap way to store energy from the sun. In so doing, they have solved one of the key problems in making solar energy a dominant source of electricity.

Daniel Nocera, a professor of chemistry at MIT, has developed a catalyst that can generate oxygen from a glass of water by splitting water molecules. The reaction frees hydrogen ions to make hydrogen gas. The catalyst, which is easy and cheap to make, could be used to generate vast amounts of hydrogen using sunlight to power the reactions. The hydrogen can then be burned or run through a fuel cell to generate electricity whenever it's needed, including when the sun isn't shining.

Solar power is ultimately limited by the fact that the solar cells only produce their peak output for a few hours each day. The proposed solution of using sunlight to split water, storing solar energy in the form of hydrogen, hasn't been practical because the reaction required too much energy, and suitable catalysts were too expensive or used extremely rare materials. Nocera's catalyst clears the way for cheap and abundant water-splitting technologies.

Nocera's advance represents a key discovery in an effort by many chemical research groups to create artificial photosynthesis- -mimicking how plants use sunlight to split water to make usable energy. "This discovery is simply groundbreaking, " says Karsten Meyer, a professor of chemistry at Friedrich Alexander University, in Germany. "Nocera has probably put a lot of researchers out of business." For solar power, Meyer says, "this is probably the most important single discovery of the century."

The new catalyst marks a radical departure from earlier attempts. Researchers, including Nocera, have tried to design molecular catalysts in which the location of each atom is precisely known and the catalyst is made to last as long as possible. The new catalyst, however, is amorphous--it doesn't have a regular structure--and it's relatively unstable, breaking down as it does its work. But the catalyst is able to constantly repair itself, so it can continue working.

In his experimental system, Nocera immerses an indium tin oxide electrode in water mixed with cobalt and potassium phosphate. He applies a voltage to the electrode, and cobalt, potassium, and phosphate accumulate on the electrode, forming the catalyst. The catalyst oxidizes the water to form oxygen gas and free hydrogen ions. At another electrode, this one coated with a platinum catalyst, hydrogen ions form hydrogen gas. As it works, the cobalt-based catalyst breaks down, but cobalt and potassium phosphate in the solution soon re-form on the electrode, repairing the catalyst.

Nocera created the catalyst as part of a research program whose goal was to develop artificial photosynthesis that works more efficiently than photosynthesis and produces useful fuels, such as hydrogen. Nocera has solved one of the most challenging parts of artificial photosynthesis: generating oxygen from water. Two more steps remain. One is replacing the expensive platinum catalyst for making hydrogen from hydrogen ions with a catalyst based on a cheap and abundant metal, as Nocera has done with the oxygen catalyst.

Finding a cheaper catalyst for making hydrogen shouldn't be too difficult, says John Turner, a principal investigator at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, in Golden, CO. Indeed, Nocera says that he has promising new materials that might work, and other researchers also have likely candidates. The second remaining step in artificial photosynthesis is developing a material that absorbs sunlight, generating the electrons needed to power the water-splitting catalysts. That will allow Nocera's catalyst to run directly on sunlight; right now, it runs on electricity taken from an outlet.

There's also still much engineering work to be done before Nocera's catalyst is incorporated into commercial devices. It will, for example, be necessary to improve the rate at which his catalyst produces oxygen. Nocera and others are confident that the engineering can be done quickly because the catalyst is easy to make, allowing a lot of researchers to start working with it without delay. "The beauty of this system is, it's so simple that many people can immediately jump on it and make it better," says Thomas Moore, a professor of chemistry and biochemistry at Arizona State University.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21155/page2/

http://www.nextenergynews.com/

Yet another chance to tear us a new arsehol_e. 633 gbp UK to Thai last year. This year , nearer 900. Or that may be the Jock supplement , sorry

[dotcom]

Oil will not run out just like turning off a tap. What will happen is that the price will escalate such as to make the marginal fields economic for extraction. The price will be such that ordinary people in many developing countries won't be able to afford gasoline and diesel and thus will have to rely on alternatives for transport.

Exactly what the socialists want to happen.

They want everyone miserable together. They relish the idea of changing human behaviour. After all we should all get the same salary & live in the same size house.

[sabaijai]

I'm going through the entire Bangkok Post newspaper archives from 1946 to the present. Came across a news story written in 1977 that says that by all best estimates, the world will be out of oil by 1985 ...

[Spee]

Many brilliant and wise thoughts on this thread so far. Oil now reaching 140 dollar a barrel and lots of banter that it'll reach 150 then 200 in the near future. Fuel protests going on in major cities every week. Peak Oil naysayers please step up and give me your take on what's going on.

This naysayer says oil is at $118 and dropping, with fuel prices following close behind.

As with all political hot potatoes, people need to keep an eye on the timing as much as the politicians' actions. The Russians invaded Georgia on the opening day of the Olympics not by coincidence, but with purposeful intent.

So to are the American politicians bending to the will of the people. Several months ago, there was a strong Rebuplican contingent (including McCain) who did not support starting drilling in new areas of the US. As recently as a few days ago, ALL of the Democrat leadership (including Obama) was steadfastly against starting drilling in new areas.

Now that we are approaching the political critical mass known as the November elections, all the Nays are becoming Yeas, not so much because they want to, but because they are willing to sell their souls and scruples for votes. Once the votes go in to reinvigorate drilling in the US, expect the price of oil to drop lilke a stone. I might end up being completely off base, but I wouldn't be surprised to see oil at or below $75-80 by the elections.

[Spee]

Here is a transcript of an interview of the Exxon-Mobil CEO by ABC News, conducted earlier this week.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/print?id=5571606

Among other things, I found this Q&A to be particularly interesting relative to debunking the peak oil myth:

"CHARLES GIBSON: But you mentioned a couple of times supply now. Let's talk about that a little bit. There's a growing concern among a lot of the academicians who look at your profession that the curves of demand, new demand for oil, and the curve for new supply, new oil sources coming online, that the demand curve is going up faster than the supply curve. IEA says we'll be having a shortfall by 2015. Other people say 2020. Are we in a position where we're going to have demand outstripping supply soon?

REX TILLERSON: That's not our view of the future. The global endowment of oil and natural gas resources is clearly sufficient to meet the growth and demand that almost any economic forecast would foresee. Give you an example, Charlie, of how things have changed over the years. In 1950, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated the world's endowment of conventional oil at 1 trillion barrels. Fifty years later, the U.S. Geological Survey now estimates that endowment to be 3 trillion barrels..

What changed? Well, in 1950, the people making those estimates did not foresee the impact of technology on increasing the resource base. And I would say the same is true today. In many of the forward forecasts of people who are looking at future supply, it is myopic again; and they're not properly accounting for the impact that technology will have on making new supplies available. "

[Johpa]

What changed? Well, in 1950, the people making those estimates did not foresee the impact of technology on increasing the resource base. And I would say the same is true today. In many of the forward forecasts of people who are looking at future supply, it is myopic again; and they're not properly accounting for the impact that technology will have on making new supplies available. "

Again we see a fine example of the post-modernist Cargo Cult that has anthropomorphized technology as the new savior, the new Elijah, the new Jesus. Technology will indeed allow for new sources of oil, but will not allow for the cheap oil we have become accustomed to over the past 100 years, the relatively cheap oil that our entire economy and infrastructure is predicated upon. Nor will technology reverse or change the concept of peak oil, it will only make the downward slope a little less steep as far as supply, but it will not significantly change the upward costs of production nor the increased demand.

[Spee]

Many brilliant and wise thoughts on this thread so far. Oil now reaching 140 dollar a barrel and lots of banter that it'll reach 150 then 200 in the near future. Fuel protests going on in major cities every week. Peak Oil naysayers please step up and give me your take on what's going on.

This naysayer says oil is at $118 and dropping, with fuel prices following close behind.

Oil is now at $107 with "lots of banter" that it will be below $90 by the November US elections. Funny that all the peak-oil-istas grow conspicuously more silent when prices are going down.

Hopefully these drops in prices are resulting in decreasing pump prices in Thailand as they are in the states.

Glad to hear some good news in light of everything else going on.

[elkangorito]

"Fuel cells" would be great (heaps better than oil). Then we'll have "over-mining" to extract Platinum. Nonetheless, it may create a boom in the razor blade recycling industry. But let's not forget all that "dead" heavy metal.

If we truly want trouble free energy, wind, water & solar are the answers. Even these methods can wreak environmental damage. Geothermal may also seem to be an answer but what will happen when the earths core has been significantly cooled by this method?

[dotcom]

We may have the technology in another 30 years. Till then I'm afraid it's hydrocarbons & conservation.

[tartempion]

Many brilliant and wise thoughts on this thread so far. Oil now reaching 140 dollar a barrel and lots of banter that it'll reach 150 then 200 in the near future. Fuel protests going on in major cities every week. Peak Oil naysayers please step up and give me your take on what's going on.

This naysayer says oil is at $118 and dropping, with fuel prices following close behind.

Oil is now at $107 with "lots of banter" that it will be below $90 by the November US elections. Funny that all the peak-oil-istas grow conspicuously more silent when prices are going down.

Hopefully these drops in prices are resulting in decreasing pump prices in Thailand as they are in the states.

Glad to hear some good news in light of everything else going on.

And the future price per oil barrel of 150 USD was not beacuse of speculation?

Today's price of 94USD is still way to high thanks the speculators

Remember the 1997 Thai baht bubble?

Remember the tech shares 2001 bubble?

Remember the 2007 foreclose bubble with the subsequent financial market collapse, we write 15 september 2008

Who's next?