Getting My Daughter Out Of Thailand

[offshoreonshore]

I have a daughter with a Thai woman who has turned bad. Theft, alcohol, drugs I think and staying out all night with no regard for our baby have pushed me to the brink. I fear for our daughter (9 months) when I am away as I see how little she cares when I am here. I want to remove my daughter from her mother's care.

We are not married but I am registered on the Thai birth certificate as the father and the baby's name is in English as well as Thai (she has an english name). The mother will not help with the house book or anything else to get the baby a British passport. What can I do ?

I want to take the baby to the UK but how can I get a British passport without the necessary documents ? There must be a way if the mother will not help. What about going to court here ? When "straight" she is fine but she is rarely that way nowadays and what happens when I am not here I do not know. Worse probably.

Is there any way to get around this ? There must be surely. I am prepared for drastic action but I would prefer a more legal route. What can I do ?

[Lakdee]

Hi,

I would like to suggest you to talk to your gf. Tell her that you want to take her and baby to farangland for holiday. If she has never been to farangland , she might be interested. Snow is most interesting thing for Thai who never go farangland... Convince her that there is snow and it is nice period to visit in this period. When she seems to interested, you tell her that she needs to prepare papers to make passport for kid and and make visa for herself..

If you can convince her , it will be more easier to make British passport for kid. Her visa is needed and it might take longer time. If you want her to go with you, you can proceed. If not, you just keep waiting till you get British passport then you run away with your kid.

I once took my kid home alone and immigrant never asked for her mum.

Other possibility, you could ask for help from Thai relatives ( mother of the GF, sisters). Try to convince her how good life the kid will have if she stays with you. Maybe they might want to help.

I am not sure if my suggestion will help you or not.

Good luck and wish you and the girl all the best.

[Mahout Angrit]

Your daughter can obtain British Citizenship and hence a British Passport if you are British. Once she has a British passport she can travel to, enter and live freely in UK without your wife's permission.

See Child passport application

Of course you will need the "necessary documents" to get your child a British passport so you will need to get her Thai birth certificate naming you as the father and your long birth certificate. It is not necessary for you to register your child's birth if funds are tight you can simply request the passport.

See also the pinned read at the top of this forum re British Citizenship.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Mahout Angrit

[Chloe82]

enter and live freely in UK without your wife's permission.

Thats wrong, she would be unable to travel without the wifes permision unless he handed in a death certificate for his wife when he applied for the kids passport.

Chloe.

[torrenova]

If the guy's kid can get a British passport then why would he need anything rfom the mother to just waltz through immigration in Bangkok and arrive in the UK ? No visa needed so nothing to stop UK entry and no reason to have a problem here.

Would his kid be able to leave on a UK passport though or would he have to get her a Thai one ?

[Chloe82]

If the guy's kid can get a British passport then why would he need anything rfom the mother to just waltz through immigration in Bangkok and arrive in the UK ? No visa needed so nothing to stop UK entry and no reason to have a problem here.

Would his kid be able to leave on a UK passport though or would he have to get her a Thai one ?

Because both he and the mothers names would be on the kids passport.If the mother is not also traveling then the immigration would not let them out of the country unless they were satisfied he had the mothers permision.

Chloe.

[torrenova]

My mother's name is not on my passport. Do they do that for kids ?

Anyway, why can't the father just take his daughter on a holiday ? I mean, no-one would bat an eyelid in Europe.

Are you saying that the mother would also need something from the father to allow the kid to fly ? Seems strange as the father seems to be the legal guardian of the child (with the mother of course).

[the scouser]

The parents' names are not entered anywhere on a child's passport. If the child travels on a British passport, as far as Thai immigration are concerned it will simply be returning to the U.K., and as far as U.K. immigration are concerned, the child has permission to live in the country without restriction.

Simply apply for a British passport at the British embassy in Bangkok using the documents Mahout Angrit mentioned. You have to be British "otherwise than by descent" but if you were born in the U.K., it is more than likely you will fit the bill. Your child will derive her British citizenship through you, so the mother's involvement in the process is not needed and the embassy can't refuse to issue a British passport to a British citizen.

Scouse.

[Boo]

it has been known that fathers travelling alone do get stopped & questioned as to the relationship with the child they are with but they have no rights afaik to prevent travel. I am sure a copy of the birth certificate would clear up any questions.

There may be other implications to taking the child abroad without gaining sole custody but that is another issue entirely.

[Mahout Angrit]

it has been known that fathers travelling alone do get stopped & questioned as to the relationship with the child they are with but they have no rights afaik to prevent travel. I am sure a copy of the birth certificate would clear up any questions.

There may be other implications to taking the child abroad without gaining sole custody but that is another issue entirely.

I would suggest that if a lone parent is challenged when leaving Thailand with a child (and it is correct fathers have been challenged) it is when a parent with a foreign passport exits Thailand with a child on a Thai passport.

Provided a child with a foreign passport is not contravening Thai immigration law the Thai authorities have no power to prevent them leaving, that may not be the case if the child was travelling on a Thai passport.

[oxymoron]

it has been known that fathers travelling alone do get stopped & questioned as to the relationship with the child they are with but they have no rights afaik to prevent travel. I am sure a copy of the birth certificate would clear up any questions.

There may be other implications to taking the child abroad without gaining sole custody but that is another issue entirely.

I would suggest that if a lone parent is challenged when leaving Thailand with a child (and it is correct fathers have been challenged) it is when a parent with a foreign passport exits Thailand with a child on a Thai passport.

Provided a child with a foreign passport is not contravening Thai immigration law the Thai authorities have no power to prevent them leaving, that may not be the case if the child was travelling on a Thai passport.

Very very true. Happened to my wife 20 years ago in getting her own kid out of Thailand

[iainiain101]

The father can leave Thailand with his daughter using a UK passport without the mother or her permission.

He will however be stopped at immigration as his daughters passport will not have a Thai date of entry stamp in it. He is then required to show the Thai birth certificate and will be allowed to leave with his daughter. (allow an extra 20 minutes or so while all the correct stamps are found)

Iain

[thaiclan]

it has been known that fathers travelling alone do get stopped & questioned as to the relationship with the child they are with but they have no rights afaik to prevent travel. I am sure a copy of the birth certificate would clear up any questions.

There may be other implications to taking the child abroad without gaining sole custody but that is another issue entirely.

I would suggest that if a lone parent is challenged when leaving Thailand with a child (and it is correct fathers have been challenged) it is when a parent with a foreign passport exits Thailand with a child on a Thai passport.

Provided a child with a foreign passport is not contravening Thai immigration law the Thai authorities have no power to prevent them leaving, that may not be the case if the child was travelling on a Thai passport.

Even Mothers can get asked. My daughter (age 6) is often asked at check-in who I am, so I assume it is a regular occurance now that children have their own passports without any parent inserted. She is asked probably because she has my husbands names but I never took his name when we married. On top of that there is little resemblance, I have very dark hair and eyes and she is blonde and blue eyed.

Its an easy question to clear up when they can ask the child direct, but for a babe-in-arms documentation would be necessary.

BTW, sounds like your baby is very lucky to have such a solid,considerate and caring father. Best of Luck

[MrSquigle]

Yes, good to see you care enough to do whatever is necessary to achieve the best for your daughter. She is so young also for this to happen.

I have taken my son out of the country no questions asked, he is on an Oz passport and looks dam_n near 100% farang though. Even though, he was on overstay because we live here, they realise we live here and not tourists, yet still no questions asked nor any birth certificate asked for. Lucky cos I did not bring it.

Best of luck in taking care of your child.

[Goinghomesoon]

I've never been asked in Thailand or anywhere else to prove why I was travelling as a lone parent with children. Both of them are adopted and of a totally different race to me.

[Maestro]

...The mother will not help with the house book or anything else to get the baby a British passport...

I want to take the baby to the UK but how can I get a British passport without the necessary documents ?

Is it true that the British Embassy wants to see the house registration book with an application for a British passport? I thought that was necessary only for the application for a Thai passport.

--

Maestro

[offshoreonshore]

Thanks to all who have replied. Thanks also for the link to the British Embassy site. I appreciate your support.

Can I ask further what happens if I just can't get her passport (or presumably ID card as it cannot surely be a requirement for her to have a passport for her child to obtain one) ?

What about a copy of the birth certificate - she has the original. Could I use a copy ?

I do hope that I can get her to agree to help but if I cannot, then there must be a way to obtain her British passport. I know that such will not be "normal" but it cannot be that this is the only way and if you can't get one piece of paper for some reason then you are stuffed can it ? I mean, I am British, born in the UK, have a UK passport and can transmit nationality without any reference to the mother who could come from any country on earth.

Thanks again.

[Maestro]

...What about a copy of the birth certificate - she has the original. Could I use a copy ?

Good if you have a copy of it. Go to the amphur office with it and say you can't find the original anymore. They will look up the details in their birth register and issue a certified copy or something like it, which should then serve the same purpose as the original certificate.

--

Maestro

[Mahout Angrit]

Can I ask further what happens if I just can't get her passport (or presumably ID card as it cannot surely be a requirement for her to have a passport for her child to obtain one) ?

By 'her' do you mean the child's mother? You do not need any documents or proof from the child's mother, your child gains her citizenship from you and you alone.

What about a copy of the birth certificate - she has the original. Could I use a copy ?

You only have to prove you are British to pass your nationality to your child (you do that with your 'long' birth certificate), you do also, however, have to prove you are the father of that child. You will need your child's birth certificate to do that, that's all. Should the child's mother not be persuaded to allow you access to it or you cannot get your own hands on it I'm sure as you are named as the father that you will be able to get a duplicate from the local Amphur (district) office. You may need the help of a Thai relative or a Thai lawyer if you cannot speak Thai.

If you do get your hands on the original you should make a certified copy of it for the future before returning it.

[the scouser]

If the birth certificate proves difficult to get, you can also consider having a DNA test.

From The British Nationality (Proof of Paternity) Regulations 2006:-

2. The following requirements are prescribed as to proof of paternity for the purposes of section 50(9A)© of the British Nationality Act 1981—

(a) the person must be named as the father of the child in a birth certificate issued within one year of the date of the child’s birth; or

(b ) the person must satisfy the Secretary of State that he is the father of the child.

3. The Secretary of State may determine whether a person is the father of a child for the purpose of regulation 2(, and for this purpose the Secretary of State may have regard to any evidence which he considers to be relevant, including, but not limited to—

(a) DNA test reports; and

(b ) court orders.

Scouse.

[offshoreonshore]

I presumed I could get a copy from the local amphur just as I would get a copy of my birth certificate from some government office in the UK. I am named on the birth certificate so I cannot see them having any objection to providing a copy to the father.

From the British Embassy site it states that one of the documents required is the mother's passport. As I do not have that, nor do I have her ID card (though I have a scanned copy of it), I thought I fell at that hurdle.

Does anyone know whether I could obtain a British passport for my daughter if I am unable to obtain the mother's passport or ID card ? What procedures would one have to go through ? Surely they cannot just deny a passport (which she is entitled to) because the mother is unwilling to provide her identity documentation ? I mean, in order to get the birth certificate, I had to provide my passport and the mother had to provide her ID card so in my mind, the birth certificate itself should act as identity for the mother.

[the scouser]

The mother's nationality or identity has nothing to do with your daughter's application for a British passport. If the embassy refuses to consider issuing a passport because you don't have evidence of the mother's ID, then ask them to provide this in writing, stating why and upon which legislation they are relying.

The British Nationality Act 1981 does not provide that evidence of the mother's identity is required when the claim to citizenship is through the father, and the Regulations I quoted above set out the circumstances which identify you as being the father.

Scouse.

[MrSquigle]

Why dont you try to talk to the parents of the mother to talk sense into them and for them to talk her into letting you take care of the child if that is at all possible.

Why not consider the family court option and getting custody.

If it is that bad, why not get evidence of her behaviour, drinking, neglect, drugs etc and use it in court. You could try a private dick to get this evidence for you. Cost a bit, but worth it if it saves your daughters life.

[david96]

One may be mistaken but in this case the subject (a small child) born of a Thai mother in Thailand would be a Thai citizen. Subject would also be a British citizen via descent/ancestry of the lawful father.

Therefore subject is a dual citizen. Which country has greater claim?

The Thai authorities might see things in a different light. You may have to get lawful custody first in Thailand otherwise it could seen as abduction.

On a moral perspective you are probably doing the correct thing by her (yourchild).

Edited January 18, 2008 by david96

[offshoreonshore]

Why dont you try to talk to the parents of the mother to talk sense into them and for them to talk her into letting you take care of the child if that is at all possible.

Why not consider the family court option and getting custody.

If it is that bad, why not get evidence of her behaviour, drinking, neglect, drugs etc and use it in court. You could try a private dick to get this evidence for you. Cost a bit, but worth it if it saves your daughters life.

I have evidence but most is visual and unexplained absences with missing money as well as some self admission but that is worth jack shit if she denies it. Her mother will undoubtedly back her daughter though she knows things are not right (she has seen her out of it on occasion).

As for a PI and family court then I'm sorry but the risk is too great. I could continue to gather evidence via that medium once safely out of the country with my daughter.

One may be mistaken but in this case the subject (a small child) born of a Thai mother in Thailand would be a Thai citizen. Subject would also be a British citizen via descent/ancestry of the lawful father.

Therefore subject is a dual citizen. Which country has greater claim?

The Thai authorities might see things in a different light. You may have to get lawful custody first in Thailand otherwise it could seen as abduction.

On a moral perspective you are probably doing the correct thing by her (yourchild).

The child has dual nationality that is correct but the welbeing of my daughter cannot be put at risk by entertaining the whims of a sometimes less than fair or rational legal system. In any case, I could go down that route once she was safe in the UK.

[PattayaParent]

If the guy's kid can get a British passport then why would he need anything rfom the mother to just waltz through immigration in Bangkok and arrive in the UK ? No visa needed so nothing to stop UK entry and no reason to have a problem here.

Would his kid be able to leave on a UK passport though or would he have to get her a Thai one ?

Because both he and the mothers names would be on the kids passport.If the mother is not also traveling then the immigration would not let them out of the country unless they were satisfied he had the mothers permision.

Chloe.

Not true, my kid has neither the mothers name nor my name on the passport.

[Mahout Angrit]

From the British Embassy site it states that one of the documents required is the mother's passport. As I do not have that, nor do I have her ID card (though I have a scanned copy of it), I thought I fell at that hurdle.

The Embassy site lists both parents ID's (passports) wrt Registration of your daughter. If you were to register your daughter she would get a full British Birth Certificate which shows details of both parents irrespective of Nationality so the details of both parents would be required to register your child.

You don't need to register your child to get a passport and the requirements to apply for a passport for your child have been discussed in earlier posts.

[twschw]

Passport Services

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The British Embassy Bangkok now issues both 32 & 48 page passports. Fees are given below.

If you do not live in the UK you may apply for a passport from your nearest Embassy, Consulate or High Commission. Alternatively, you may also apply to the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) in person whilst visiting the UK. In order to do this, you need to make an appointment with IPS in the UK and you must provide an address in the UK to which the passport may be posted. Applicants will have to be available at this address to sign for the receipt of the passport. Please note that IPS do not accept applications by post or e-mail if you live abroad.

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