Hiv Carriers Working In The Food Industry.

[moldy]

Twenty years on, and still so much ill-informed hysteria. . .. how sad is that?

Did you know you can catch it by sitting on someone's toilet seat? True. I swear to god . .

Really? Oh crap, I sat on one just the other day! At a friends house!!!! I better go scrub my bum...

I think the poster is being ironic. HIV is not easy to get to say the least and a growing number question the validity of the hypothesis to various degrees. Certainly in the west it never has developed in to an epidemic, and there is now considerable doubt on figures in Africa and Thailand, etc as evidenced by a swingeing drop in WHO estimated figures.

None of this means that condoms should not still be considered mandatory until the truth comes out, though not when serving up a plate of rice.

Moldy, most of the people have died in Thailand because they could not access the medication needed to sustain their lives; this is more than likely the reason for the drop in estimates?

What it comes back to is the adoption of universal health precautions either in the health field or the food industry. That is that everyone performs at the same level of precaution when dealing with the general public. Hence no discrimination.

As said there are a number of disease's that can be contracted if people are not carefull. I remeber in the early 90's talking to a 60+ alcoholic. He had just come from a hospital where a patient next to him had a bed who was HIV+. I asked him would he take up the bed of that fellow if he had to. His answer was no as he thought this was a huge risk. The point is that some people can never be convinced as to risk factors(I did not do this to torment the gentleman but used in talking about his alcohol risk factors).

Some things never change, but it is good to hear this type of talk every now and then. It can still educate your peers.

Hi there, interesting posting and it's so good that there are people around doing their bit. My views are honest but I must stress that I have no scientific qualifications. Much is a matter of reasonable critical analysis and just plain common sense.

As far as I'm aware, the reduction in figures worldwide was attributable to a change in the methods of calculating aids infections. I think that's loonocracy speak for 'we cocked up'. Still shouldn't mock as I am prone to a few gaffs too.

One would hope people have access to medicines now, as thankfully things have improved. They are certainly quite wonderful in improving general health, but there can be side effects.

This is a dreadful condition. Honestly I don't think it's at all easy to get, but 1 death is too many and I hope more can be done for Thai people. It's terible to be in pain, who needs the stigma attached which in itself can have a voodoo effect. There should be less scare mongering and more reassurance.

[kat]

Hepatitis is of greater concern than HIV in the food industry. Never heard of a case where someone was infected due to food handling. Gloves are now recognized as an agent of food borne illness infection. Sure,they are benefit if the worker has wounds or sores, but otherwise they can be dangerous.

Went into Subway in BKK last month. Guy wearing gloves made me a great sandwich. He then went to the cash wearing gloves and rang up the sale and took my money. Needed a tray so he got one from a table and wiped it off using the usual wet rag. Once he was done with me, he went back to making sandwiches. He was wearing his plastic gloves the whole time. What was the risk reduction in that procedure? None. Like your mom's used to say, best thing is the washing of hands. Plastic gloves in the food industry are there to reassure clients. No use if they aren't changed between wiping tables or handling raw mateials and then cooked foods. Take a look next time you visit a fast food joint.

Absolutely. I am not debating this from a scientific public health angle, but from a policy and procedure angle that could eliminate the excuse to fire people who are HIV positive in the food industry. Most of the public and as a result employers also react to perceptions as well as scientific fact and required procedures, and in some places perceptions are more important than scientific facts and procedure. This can have an effect on business, and employment decisions. In an environment with no firm labor laws protecting people's rights, but with very strong ideas about cleanliness, how can you mitigate the irrational discrimination against people with HIV?

The example I gave earlier about the large hotel venue for the International AIDS conference in Bangkok a few years ago shows that there is still a lot of irrational fear and discrimination against people with HIV.

As you said, the gloves don't work in food handling because they don't take them off once they leave to handle the cash register or wipe down tables. That is therefore a matter of procedure in the use of gloves, not the utility of gloves themselves in food preparation. I also agree that washing your hands is the good old-fashioned method that works, but this does nothing to reassure the public because they don't see it.

In the states, I see them remove and put back on their gloves as they leave and re-enter the food prep area. They have been trained and educated on the proper procedure of food handling with gloves. In Thailand, you obviously need training on the scientific facts such as those discussed in this thread, proper food handling with gloves, and more conscientious labor policy.

Which do you think has a better chance of sticking in Thailand, at the micro level? Anyway, I am not really debating with you public health gurus, only seeing it from another angle. In all honesty, I don't think gloves would prevent them from firing someone with HIV, either, if they really wanted to; but nor would science. But, I think the "cleanliness" angle with proper procedure might have a better chance of reassuring the public in Thailand, and thereby lessening the argument to single out HIV workers.

Anyway, just a thought, not a dogma.

[moldy]

Hepatitis is of greater concern than HIV in the food industry. Never heard of a case where someone was infected due to food handling. Gloves are now recognized as an agent of food borne illness infection. Sure,they are benefit if the worker has wounds or sores, but otherwise they can be dangerous.

Went into Subway in BKK last month. Guy wearing gloves made me a great sandwich. He then went to the cash wearing gloves and rang up the sale and took my money. Needed a tray so he got one from a table and wiped it off using the usual wet rag. Once he was done with me, he went back to making sandwiches. He was wearing his plastic gloves the whole time. What was the risk reduction in that procedure? None. Like your mom's used to say, best thing is the washing of hands. Plastic gloves in the food industry are there to reassure clients. No use if they aren't changed between wiping tables or handling raw mateials and then cooked foods. Take a look next time you visit a fast food joint.

Absolutely. I am not debating this from a scientific public health angle, but from a policy and procedure angle that could eliminate the excuse to fire people who are HIV positive in the food industry. Most of the public and as a result employers also react to perceptions as well as scientific fact and required procedures, and in some places perceptions are more important than scientific facts and procedure. This can have an effect on business, and employment decisions. In an environment with no firm labor laws protecting people's rights, but with very strong ideas about cleanliness, how can you mitigate the irrational discrimination against people with HIV?

The example I gave earlier about the large hotel venue for the International AIDS conference in Bangkok a few years ago shows that there is still a lot of irrational fear and discrimination against people with HIV.

As you said, the gloves don't work in food handling because they don't take them off once they leave to handle the cash register or wipe down tables. That is therefore a matter of procedure in the use of gloves, not the utility of gloves themselves in food preparation. I also agree that washing your hands is the good old-fashioned method that works, but this does nothing to reassure the public because they don't see it.

In the states, I see them remove and put back on their gloves as they leave and re-enter the food prep area. They have been trained and educated on the proper procedure of food handling with gloves. In Thailand, you obviously need training on the scientific facts such as those discussed in this thread, proper food handling with gloves, and more conscientious labor policy.

Which do you think has a better chance of sticking in Thailand, at the micro level? Anyway, I am not really debating with you public health gurus, only seeing it from another angle. In all honesty, I don't think gloves would prevent them from firing someone with HIV, either, if they really wanted to; but nor would science. But, I think the "cleanliness" angle with proper procedure might have a better chance of reassuring the public in Thailand, and thereby lessening the argument to single out HIV workers.

Anyway, just a thought, not a dogma.

With regard to food handling though whilst not an issue while healthy, The HIV infected person (according to accepted theories anyway) may be more prone to morbidity. This would be grounds for concern. I'd assume by that point however, a responsible employer might reason that a non food handling position might be available.

[wilko]

As far as I can ascertain just about the only way to get infected by an HIV food worker is to give one a good hard shag without using a condom....something I seldom do whilst eating out or ordering at Subway