Hollywood Buddha..

[Coffee Dude]

I am sorry I have lost sight of the topic. Is it a discussion about "The apparent disrespect of Buddhism in relation to Thai and some other cultures in a particular film" or is it "Why America does or does not suck"?

Coffee!!!

[Limbo]

vast majority of the US public weren't so goddammned ignorant, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now with a dangerous maniac in the White House. And I make no excuses for the poodle Blair, and his clique of neo-Labradors, but unlike the US, the British public in the main were never FOR the war. Both leaders should be with Milosevic answering their crimes in the Hague right now. If only......... Ignorance should not be an excuse!

Poor Dicky,

From the present government of the usa you couldn't expect it, but the Poodle should have known better. Why did he think that the usa would win when the british didn't made it already 80 years ago? If the british could not win, how ever could the americans?

Does he want to show that he is at least as strong as mamma Tatcher?

It is funny that the american generals now start revolting. The poor lads are not trained for 'mission impossibles'. They are standing there for ape with their uniformed imbeciles.

And we, of thaivisa forum, have these exponents of the Bush supporters: Boon mee and Spee, both hiding themselves behind the Thai flag which I consider an abuse and an insult. But the Boon mees and Spees are a reality and probably representative for the americans who vote a person for president who even didn't manage to learn anything at Yale.

To call them neo-cons is an insult to the German professor Strauss of the Frankfurter Schule, who lectured in the States and who influenced the thinking of some of the lads Bush delegates his thinking to.

[Boon Mee]

"american generals now start revolting"

Interesting development...how about some source quote(s) there, Limbo?

Let's back up some of that misinformation, shall we?

[Limbo]

"american generals now start revolting"

Interesting development...how about some source quote(s) there, Limbo?

Let's back up some of that misinformation, shall we?

Sorry, I don't have a workpermit. Just read the newspapers.

[Dickie]

Poor Dicky,

From the present government of the usa you couldn't expect it, but the Poodle should have known better. Why did he think that the usa would win when the british didn't made it already 80 years ago? If the british could not win, how ever could the americans?

Does he want to show that he is at least as strong as mamma Tatcher?

Err... What's your point with the poor Dickie?

However, Phoney DID know better but, as you (in my opinion) accurately stated, he definitely wants to appear as strong as Maggie. The bit about the British not making it is a bit odd as we invented Iraq in the first place!

[GuestHouse]

Of course the OP being a Buddhist will understand that the Lord Buddha did teach agaisnt idolitry, the worhip of the Budha and the image of the Budha runs contrary to his teachings.

So while the OP, and others, might complain of the portrauyal of a Buddha image in such a mannor, purists imn the Buddhist faith might, perhaps with more validity, complain that there is an image of Buddha at all.

[ka12345]

A quick google search brought up this page that appears to be an apology from the director or whatever he is:

http://www.thaitemple.org/html/hellow.html

[medicinebox]

The fact that there are so many religions proves one thing. A lot of people have got it all wrong.

There is no god, there was only gas and dust to start. There will be only gas and dust left.

If an individual spoke up and claimed Satan had spoken to him and given him orders, he would be classed as insane and locked up.

Some Sunday mornings I wake up from a drunken haze and see "Songs of praise" on TV. I think to myself "Fukc me, there are more crazy fukcers out there than I first suspected"

It's the same thing. A load of <deleted>........Lets lock them up as well.

Religion gets confused with tradition and tradition gets confused with custom.

Goodnight god bless, Jesus loves you, Allah wants you, the Buddha forgives you and Satan lives within you...

We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.

Jonathan Swift

[Jeff1]

I do not know what about this thread makes me more sick !

Is it the fool that says all Americans should be ashamed ? Well im not and I didnt have anything to do with it .

Or all the America bashing ? I could go on and on about this but I really dont care what they think so why bother . I think I will vote for Bush . Be afraid be very afraid .

No , what I find most disturbing are the comments made by that F#####g

NAZI LOVER. You make me sick

[sriracha john]

...and in a related development:

Thai government to ban culturally insensitive foreigners

BANGKOK, Thailand -- The Thai government will ban foreigners from the kingdom who break serious cultural rules as laid out in an official etiquette book it plans to produce, media reported Sunday. The ban and booklet were a result of a row caused by recent controversies such as the movie Hollywood Buddha which depicted the film's director sitting on top of a Buddha head, according to the Nation newspaper.

The movie poster caused a furor in Thailand last week, where the population of about 62 million is overwhelmingly Buddhist and where showing disrespect to a Buddha image is taken seriously.

Thailand's foreign affairs ministry agreed to blacklist foreigners from entering the country as a punishment for previous indiscretions after attending a meeting on the booklet being prepared by the ministry of culture, reported the Nation.

"If some foreigners still behave with malicious intentions, Thai Buddhists should denounce these people or not allow them to enter the country," Ministry of Culture Deputy Permanent Secretary Kla Somtrakool was quoted as saying by the daily.

Kla said the booklet would be distributed to hotels, travel agencies, airline booths, consulates and immigration offices and added that foreigners who made mistakes unknowingly should be forgiven.

The director of Hollywood Buddha, Philippe Caland apologized to Thailand Friday, saying his error was unintentional. He also agreed to cancel and remove the promotional material at the center of the controversy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

His apology goes back to my comment WAY back to the 2nd post on the initial page of this thread that it was commited through ignorance. I actually thought that would be the end of it. Ha ha ha..

It's been very interesting how it's convuluted over the next 13 pages. Will never under-estimate Thaivisa again.

With the new blacklisting policy, through the ever-popular Culture Ministry, I imagine it will go on for 13 more?

[kwiz117]

Hi..

I am back after few days..and did go through this thread and all the replies that you guys have posted..

I simply do not have time to answer each of you. But let me try to clear some questions..

1. For those who like to know my country.. I am from Sri Lanka. I am Buddhist and do not practice Buddhism but do TRY to live according to principles of Buddhism. (Well..if some one to say like this, I believe that person first should know about Buddhism.. )

2. This issue is not about a religion. This issue is about American People tolerating and encouraging such acts of individuals who always have the intention of harming other religions, cultures and races.

No one here had been able to see this picture. Instead have tried to defend this movie by taking examples from other similar incidents..or trying to highlight it as Anti American or as an act of individual..

This itself proves my point why I said "Shame on all Americans". Coz all of you have thought same thing.. That is to defend this movie..and to tell me it is just another incident done by one person..and for posting this..I am Anti American..

For a movie like this nature, you need an audience. So you got the perfect audience in US who loves to see how someone else can attack something that they do not like or believe in. That is why I say that Americans do not know how to respect other religions, cultures and races. You can talk 24hrs in all news channels about how fair your democracy is and how much you respect others.

But if actions do not follow what you talk, like in this case and all other cases around the world.. you will see reactions against your country and it's people.

3. I will never respect any person who defend a movie made to attack another religion, culture or a race.

It's an act to be shamed of irrespective of who the person is..

4. In Thailand, Sri Lanka and even in India all people are against this movie.. and people are now protesting against this movie.

All your replies above shows true American values.. That's it..

[plachon]

Quiz, i think you've flipped me old mucker. Either that or you never took the time to read how the thread went and what people were saying. Like love, religion can be very blind to...... Doesn't make it wrong, it just tends to make us see only the things that we want to see.

That being as it may. I'd just like to correct you on one thing. Not ALL Thais are against the movie.........Mrs Plachon saw the shock, horror piccie on the front of Matichon, read the wee blurb on the poster and said: "Nah son jai, nah bai doo". For the benefit of non-Thai speakers: "That sounds interesting and worthwhile seeing". Wonder if she'll ever get the chance in Thailand?

[Pudgimelon]

This itself proves my point why I said "Shame on all Americans". Coz all of you have thought same thing.. That is to defend this movie..and to tell me it is just another incident done by one person..and for posting this..I am Anti American..

Woah! Hang on there. You're making some pretty broad assumptions yourself. Just because a few people get on some forum and "defend this movie" (in your opinion), does NOT mean that "all Americans" would think to do the same thing.

For one, you are forgetting that there are millions of American buddhists. Don't make the assumption that "American = redneck Christian fundamentalist". America is a BIG country, and there is a lot more diversity of opinion there than the TV news would lead you to believe.

Secondly, have you seen this movie? No? Then how can you attack it? If you're going to criticize Americans for defending a movie they've never seen, then you have to understand that you're likewise guilty of the same kind of thinking (only in reverse).

Finally, there is a big difference between "Defend" and "Explain". When I told my girlfriend about this movie POSTER, she hit the roof. Like you, she was very angry about American cultural insensitivity and she couldn't believe how stupid people could be.

I did not "defend" the movie (I've never seen it), nor did I "defend" the poster (I have seen it and I do agree, it is STUPID). I think the ad people who put together that poster were idiots, and I certainly think that anyone who makes a movie about Buddhism should at least do some RESEARCH about Buddhism. And therefore, I think the director/actor of that movie was completely irresponsible to have his picture taken on the head of a Buddha. HE definitely should have known better.

However, I did try to EXPLAIN the poster, and that's different.

Americans don't infuse old statues from other cultures with the same "spirituality" that is common here. You may think that's "culturally insensitive", but then you're being culturally insensitive if you don't at least TRY to understand American culture before you criticize it.

See, Americans just don't have a long history of "statue-worship". Our landscape is not dotted with shrines and statues from centuries-lost cultures. Sure we have statues of Jesus (and YES, of course nobody would sit on Jesus's head), but those statues are usually relatively new and on church property, so part of the reason nobody would sit on them is because they'd have to climb up the side of a church wall to get to the statue.

But it's quite common for Americans go on vacation to places like Mexico, visit some old temples there, and get their pictures taken while posing with some statue of an ancient Aztec god (or whatever).

Are they being disrespectful to the Aztec gods? Maybe. Do you think there are any Aztecs around to care about it? Nope. Do you think Mexicans care about it? Probably. But probably mostly because they don't want tourists damaging the statues by climbing on them. I highly doubt there would be any national outrage in Mexico if some tourist got their picture taken on the head of an Aztec jaguar god.

So to an American, climbing up on some old statue is no big deal. It's just a cool photo opportunity. So I can imagine the people who made that poster thinking it was just a cool photo opportunity. They probably just went out, found some old buddha statue and took the picture. To them, it was probably no different than getting the picture taken on top of a rock or in a tree. They just didn't attach any religious significance to the statue itself.

Now listen carefully: I am not saying they were RIGHT to think that. Like I said, they made a movie about Buddhism, they should at least take the time to research the religion. So they should have known better. What I am saying is that it is possible for an American to make a poster like that without realizing that it is insulting. To them, some old Buddha statue out in the jungle is not ACTIVELY significant (religiously) and therefore it'd be OK to sit on it. But I doubt they'd go into an active temple and do the same thing.

I realize that may not make much sense, but you have to understand that in American, old statues just don't exist commonly and so most people would not have the opportunity to develop a reverance for such things.

Understand?

Think about it this way. In Thai culture, "being helpful" to others is quite important. But in American culture, it can sometimes be viewed with annoyance or as an insult. Americans like to do things themselves and can sometimes get offended when someone insists on doing a task. We think the person is saying we are too stupid or incompetent to do the job. The Thai person thinks they are just being helpful.

So a "helpful" Thai person might insult an American without even knowing it. Likewise, a movie director might not have an awareness of Asian reverence for Buddha images and Asian dislike of being touched on the head by strangers. Perhaps he researched his movie from American Buddhists and the topic never came up, because they might not have the same cultural opinions as Thais or other Asians.

Even if that were the case, the people who produced the poster should have done some market research. So they definitely messed up.

But I hope that helps explain things for you. I'm not defending the poster or the director. I think it was an insulting mistake, and I'm sure the director regrets it.

But I think it's a mistake for you to paint all Americans the same way. Some of us happen to be VERY tolerate and understanding of other cultures, we just don't believe we should have to give up our own culture in order to "tolerate" yours. American cultural opinions about religious statues are just as valid as your opinions. Your culture should be respected, but YOU should also respect ours.

So you got the perfect audience in US who loves to see how someone else can attack something that they do not like or believe in.

Have you seen the movie? No. So how do you know it is an attack???

I suggest that you actually SEE this movie first, and then you can make a decision about whether or not Americans are the "perfect" audience for it.

From the little bit I read about the movie, it's actually supposed to be light-hearted and funny and not at all insulting to Buddhists. I don't know for sure, of course, because I haven't seen it. But I'm just pointing out that the MOVIE may be fine. You don't know it is an attack movie, you're just making that assumption based on a single movie poster.

The poster is definitely insulting, and the director made a HUGE mistake (culturally) by not taking the time to understand his target market before releasing that poster. But that does NOT guarantee that the movie is insulting too. It certainly raises the possibility that the movie is insulting too, but you're making a pretty big assumption that this movie is somehow geared to a "target audience" of Americans who "enjoy" movies that "insult other cultures."

You're WAY off base on that one.

I will never respect any person who defend a movie made to attack another religion, culture or a race.

And I have trouble respecting a person who reviews the content of a movie they've never seen.

You're just like those book-burners who condemn books they've never read.

See the movie. Then form an opinion. I'd respect that.

[sbk]

To quote Kwiz:

2. This issue is not about a religion. This issue is about American People tolerating and encouraging such acts of individuals who always have the intention of harming other religions, cultures and races.

And to quote the Bill of Rights, from the US Constitution:

Article [i.] 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[rod_kalashnikov]

Many Muslim clerics disagreed with Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie for his alleged disrespect of the Prophet Mohammed, because they believed Khomeini lacked tolerance and that he felt personally insulted by Rushdie's words. By the same token, tolerance (or lack thereof) for disrespect of the Lord Buddha is a matter of personal interpretation.

There was a time when any man who showed disrespect for the Buddha in my presence took his life in his hands. Had I found someone sitting on the head of a statue of the Buddha, my rage would have known no bounds.

Today, I try my best to follow in the footsteps of the Buddha ... but I spent the first half of my life dancing with demons, and I have not yet learned to be a truly peaceful man.

I think that the man I am today would try to quietly explain to a man who sat upon the head of a statue of the Buddha where he was going wrong ... but there is always the possibility that I might lose it and tear him to shreds. One never knows how one will react until one is put to the test.

[PvtDick]

I bet there are more Buddhists living in the US than in all of Sri Lanka. I wonder if they're exempt from the "shame" that this one loony Frenchman -- who has admitted his mistake and revoked the poster -- has invoked on all of us?

[Boon Mee]

It's considered "cool" to hate America & Americans these days but I don't give a flying <deleted>!

[Jeff1]

I have the feeling that kwiz has hated America and Americans long before this frenchmen made a movie . I see this really made him mad , I bet he wishes he had a bomb , all in the name of Budda . While growing up in America I really had no religon . But after meeting my wife and seeing her love of Buddaism ( sorry spelling ) I am following the ways of Budda as best I can . Now I have faith and I am enjoying it . However I am an American and I will defend it and it's freedoms to the death . Yes there is alot wrong with America but were young and growing We have not been around as a cultural " thinktank " like Sir lanka If it was'nt for his computer im sure he would not have the same freedom of speach in his own great country . kwiz , get over it and live you life to the best , with caring and love

[Pepe']

I have the feeling that kwiz has hated America and Americans long before this frenchmen made a movie . I see this really made him mad , I bet he wishes he had a bomb , all in the name of Budda . While growing up in America I really had no religon . But after meeting my wife and seeing her love of Buddaism ( sorry spelling ) I am following the ways of Budda as best I can . Now I have faith and I am enjoying it . However I am an American and I will defend it and it's freedoms to the death . Yes there is alot wrong with America but were young and growing We have not been around as a cultural " thinktank " like Sir lanka If it was'nt for his computer im sure he would not have the same freedom of speach in his own great country . kwiz , get over it and live you life to the best , with caring and love

Jeff,

Well said.

Kwiz,

Since you will not listen to reason and well organized thoughts and rational responses. Try this one.

The US and especially southern California is becoming flooded with Mexican and Asian immigrants. One reason only, from speaking with my Thai relatives here and other Latino and Asian strangers.

Better quality of life period. Their words not mine.

My humble opinion is that you are a "phony" a fake.

Show us all what a selfless and advanced Buddhist you are and light yourself on fire to protest the evil USA. - (spoken in my best Di Nero impression)

Or come here and spew your garbage and hate and get a New York style attitude adjustment.

"Fagit a bhat it.'

Snap out of it nimrod

[kwiz117]

I still could not figure out why any American here can not realize the extent of your believes harming other religions, even when you can see the reactions from people all around the world against American's.

Your ways of putting things in a logical constructive manner while taking a very safe stand without touching the core of the problem is not different from fundamental islamists who directly throw the ball out and spelling their intentions.

Let's talk about the poster! What did you guys do after seeing this poster? It's true that you get enough of Buddhist people living in America. But can you call them American? If you get a Thai PR, do you call yourself Thai? So are you mean to say, Buddhist in US accept this and we Buddhist living outside US including Thai, Sri Lanka and India are frogging.

If a Thai artist put a poster of a person sitting or shitting on the head of Jesus, what would you do? Just answer that? (If that happens, I know for a fact, the protest will come first from all Buddhist people and that Poster will get banned here in Thailand first)

That is the stand I take. If anyone put a poster here sitting on top of Jesus, then I will post another thread here or even join with Thia's in protesting against it.

Did you here any action in US against this poster? No..I have not heard anything other than other countries formally protesting against this.

One reply here has highlighted US constitution about free speech bla bla bla..

Your Constitution is not Our constituton... You can not go and insult people in other countries within the boundaries of US, simply because your constitution allows it to do so. It may be legal in your country..but it harm the interest of other people, cultures, religions..

Now that is where I believe the ethics, respect has to come in to play. That is where you people have messed things up in America.

If I am wrong, you can think by yourself the level of GENUINE respect you get from a person in another country while you travel as an American 10 Yrs back and now.. unless you are traveling for Business interest..

These small things add up and I do not look at the same way I looked at any American 2 yrs back. 2 Yrs back, America was a country that I wished to go and work and live for the rest of my life. Today..it's a country where I will avoid stepping in unless it is for business.

You may think now it's my view and who am I? Well..I should say that my view about your country is still better than what majority of Asian's think about your country... May be better than what your Thai GF think about your country after seeing these posters..

JUST STOP INSULTING, HARMING, KILLING OTHER RELIGIONS, CULTURES AND COUNTRIES.

I AM FUC KING ANGRY ABOUT THIS POSTER AND THE WAY PEOPLE IN US HAVE ACCEPTED IT.. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND MAY SOMEONE HAVE THE COURAGE TO STOP THIS..

DOING ALL THESE NONSENSE COVERING TO US CONSTITUTION.. GO AND S H I T ON IT..

[Axel]

Kwiz, I guess you are using your religion for a crusade against America.

Sure what happened was tasteless, not less and not more. Again, apologies were offered and should be accepted. Fullstop.

You might not like the USA, your privilege but don't use this to cruzify Americans.

I might not like the one or other American and say so, which is something completely different from your hate-mail.

Go back to your shrine and study tolerance.

[chuchok]

Kiwz, are you for real??

Your racisim is quite outstanding.

Before I came to live in Thailand, I had very little understanding of the relevance of most practises of Buddhism.I imagine that goes for most non-Buddhist countries.

I come from a mainly Christian background. As mentioned earlier in this forum, when the movie "The Life of Brian" came out. Sure it was a little derogatory to Christians and it was also bloody funny.Did you see this movie? Did you go preaching from rooftops on how this was a slap in the face of Christianity??Tell me kwizz..WHAT DID YOU DO? Most people took it in their stride.

I believe Buddhism teaches tolerance and understanding.....maybe you should try this yourself.

If you hate America so much, maybe you should start a forum titled "why I hate all Americans and America so much" This way you will not be hiding behind a religion.

Maybe I will start hating all Sri Lankan people because of one Sri Lankan that tried to steal money off me many years ago...or maybe I should hate all Buddhists.

What do you think kwizz...??? What should I do?

[kat]

Go back to your shrine and study tolerance.

Excellent quote. Couldn't of said it better myself.

[stroll]

Having read a number of your posts in the past, Kwiz, I also believe there is an issue about your roots and your understanding of Buddhism you need to look into. Take the reactions you get as a waypointer.

[frodo]

Kwiz. You're really amazing! All you've done is point fingers at ALL Americans, stating, ALL are guilty as heck. I'm really doubting you are Buddhist at all. First, there have been displays in the name of art, such as those presented by Maplethorpe (the Virgin Mary submerged in Urine, or perhaps the Crucifix submerged upside in urine). I agree, that was tasteless, very offensive and in my opinion, not art. Who am I to say what is art?

Even with that, most Americans didn't riot or protest this at all. Yes, many found it very distatseful and offensive. Why didn't "Americans," protest, burn down buildings, or kill Maplethorpe for insulting a religion? It's simple. Most of us have lives outside the b/s that presents itself daily. We're really not that much different than other people. We work, have families, pay bills and try to make life for what it is. Sure, amongst each other, we'll bitch about it, maybe write a letter to the editor of the local paper, but outside of that, we could really care less. Who's got the time!

Regarding the Buddha, most Americans probably won't hear of this movie (maybe now more will since there are protests about it and it now has gotten exposure). Even with that, I gurantee this film will not be shown on a blockbuster scale in every theater in the states. It's one of those artsy dartsy crappy movies that rarely get exposure beyond the major cities. Even then, it's not on a blockbuster scale at all.

If the American people don't riot and burn down the town over Maplethorpes crap, do you really think they're going to protest against some frickin' FRENCH film! If you notice, it is a FRENCHMAN using an INDEPENDENT film company (not a major producer) that nobody has heard of.

Be a good Buddhist, and as mentioned, find peace in your inner temple. Stop hating so much. Nobodys trying to change your silly ass.

[Dickie]

It does seem that the intolerance is coming from the Buddhist side of the row. Must be fun being an American these days! Even your money gets you slated.

[PvtDick]

If a Thai artist put a poster of a person sitting or shitting on the head of Jesus, what would you do? Just answer that?

I wouldn't do a thing. Wouldn't give it a second thought. I know what I WOULDN'T do, and that's invoke shame on all Thai people.

If I were a Christian, the only thing that would matter to me is my own personal relationship with Christ -- not anyone else's.

[Jeff1]

These small things add up and I do not look at the same way I looked at any American 2 yrs back. 2 Yrs back, America was a country that I wished to go and work and live for the rest of my life. Today..it's a country where I will avoid stepping in unless it is for business.

Ah ha , the root of the problem .

What happened ? American embassy tell you that they already have their quota of moron's for the day ? Why would you want to go to America ?

Dickie ,

Whats wrong with American money ? at least it's all the same size

And I have never seen another country turn any of it down

Pepe,

Thank you for the kind words

[Dickie]

Dickie ,

Whats wrong with American money ? at least it's all the same size

And I have never seen another country turn any of it down

Jeez! Context is everything. I was led to believe that US cash funded the film, even though the rest of it was foreign-driven.

You need to lighten up, m'thinks.

[bina]

geez kwiz if i got mad as an american or as a jew or as an israeli everytime someone did or said something anti..... (grew up across the street from a neo nazi family that beat me and my sister up daily for being dirty jews).... then i would have died of a heart attack instead of raising three children to tolerance sufferance and and as much peace loving as i can instill in them EVEN THOUGH they all will have to go to the army and yes, my son may even get killed like my friends son last year in jenin, or like the palestinian child who got killed 'by mistake' yesterday....

lighten up, practice what you preach to others yourself and like a small rock in a pool, ripples will spread and you might influence one or two people, but to bash a country, that's like hating a child for his parent's wrong doings. lots of very good posts here but i think you are a far gone person in your soul... all your anger will catch up to you if not in this life than the next...

poeple are ingnorant, stupid and sometimes mean but to waste time responding to each insult means lyour whole life goes to waste instead of doing something worthwhile.... go work with HIV children and then see if your anger to a stupid poster from the states is relevant!

i have friends from all walks of life, from poor thai migrant workers, to russian street sweepers to professors in academics and the arab kids whom i teach to work in animal husbandry, but i wouldnt add you to my list if you spouted that kind of junk around me

go meditate on that a bit