Difficulties for Expats Banking In Singapore with ICICI Bank

[woodwork]

Discrimination by Singapore Licenced Bank against Expats using a Thai address

Please read below a word of warning regarding Offshore Banking and what can happen to an expat using a Thai address who places his savings on deposit in Singapore. .

One always understood that the rules of Offshore Banking were governed by where the bank was located and licenced. and that ones correspondence address was irrelevant.. It seems one certain bank in Singapore have their own views on the matter !

A couple of years ago a term deposit account was opened in person at the Singapore licenced office of ICICI in Raffles Place .

ICICI is the largest private bank in India but in Singapore is licenced by the Monetary Authority of Singapore .

A UK passport , UK home address, and multi entry Thai business visa with Thai correspondence address was shown to them .

Subsequently several fixed deposits were made of varying terms between one and six months.

The bank as is usual with most who offer retail term deposits grant a facility up to a maximum 90 % of ones funds back if required, charging a penalty of 1.2 basis points on the amount advanced .

This facility of “a loan secured against ones fixed deposit” is in fact an advance of one's own funds for a fee and is offered at all offices of ICICI worldwide including the UK ( see their UK website where it is clearly stated). .

Recently, needing some funds , a request was made to take up this advertised offered facility.

ICICI Singapore .confirmed the arrangement by letter saying it could be completed within 3 working days and forms were filled in and couriered back to them to their satisfaction ..

.

Three days later a bombshell came in a letter from Head Office of ICICI Bank in Mumbai ( Please note the account was opened and regulated in Singapore under the Monetary Authority of Singapore with no dealings whatsoever with India.)

The letter rescinded the offer saying “since ICICI Bank has not yet applied for banking license in Thailand, it can not undertake Commercial Banking Business and as a matter of compliance with law, can only take deposits but not give loans” .

A local UK water and electricity bill and council tax receipt was faxed to them and they were informed that no Thai residency was involved here only temporary expat status . Also even were there to be Thai residency, the funds on deposit had nothing to do with Thailand as they had come from the Channel Isles and were returning to the Channel Isles ,and had never been anywhere near Thailand .

Furthermore the account was held in Singapore under Singapore law not in Thailand or even in India for that matter.

An offer to provide confirmation from a Thai bank or lawyer confirming the account holder’s private funds outside Thailand did not fall under any Thai regulation was ignored and ICICI Singapore would not even discuss the matter or give the name of the Manager . ..

Mumbai then wrote to say that a Thai correspondence address had been given so residency and source of funds were irrelevant and since they had no Thai banking licence they could not offer back a penny under their advertised secured loan scheme.

However .” as a concession” they would allow the deposit to be 'broken' at a fee equivalent\t to an interest rate one thousand five hundred percent.per .annum !

Is this a warning to all expats in Thailand that they should think carefully before opening an offshore a/c in Singapore ? Or were the bank acting unlawfully ? Can one trust a Singapore Bank ?

Views and opinions on what to do much appreciated.

[bendix]

Well, i guess the obvious lesson learnt is if you're going to the trouble of organising offshore investments in a Singapore bank account, why on earth would anyone choose an obscure Indian bank that few people would have heard of?

What's wrong with the established players - HSBC, Citibank, UOB etc etc?

[sonicdragon]

Sounds like you need to change the official correspondence address to a non-Thai address

[torrenova]

Chasing unrealistic interest rates with mickey mouse players is what did for people with BCCI. Stupid is as stupid does.

[sonicdragon]

Chasing unrealistic interest rates with mickey mouse players is what did for people with BCCI. Stupid is as stupid does.

To be fair, ICICI is a well capitalised bank, and one of the biggest players in the indian domestic market, and has been on an overseas expansion path for some time now - and the main way for banks to expand in overseas markets is to offer above average teaser rates to depositors. On the other hand BCCI was undercapitalised and involved in all kinds of fraud and corruption. The 2 are really not very comparable.

[woodwork]

Offshore banking in Singapore...beware.....

Thanks for the comment Bendix and Torrenova , but with respect , ICICI is not an obscure bank but the number 1 ....the largest private bank in booming India and the second largest bank in all India and is licenced in Singapore by the MAS (Monetary Authority of Singapore) to accept deposits in Singapore from customers from around the world..

( see www.icicibank.com.sg & www.icicibank.co.uk)

Secondly , friends ,how about the principle involved here which goes completely contrary to what offshore banking is supposed to be all about ? Why do people use offshore banks in centres such as Singapore and Hong Kong ?

ICICI Singapore are soliciting deposits worldwide as a Singapore offshore bank and after receiving these deposits, and without ever informing a customer when he places his funds with them , refuse to honour their advertised commitments to any customer in whose country or at whose correspondence address ICICI has no local banking licence !

So fx should they accept deposits in Singapore from a UK expat with a Cambodian corresponndence address, they would refuse the customer the advertised facilities when called upon to do so, if their bank holds no banking licence in Cambodia.

Give a Spanish correspondence address to the Singapore office and receive no facilities, if no banking licence held in Spain !!

Consider this : The Guernsey, Jersey and Isle of Man banking subsidiaries of HSBC Citibank and UOB (mentioned by Bendix) which so many expats on this forum surely use, also have no banking licence in Thailand . Are their customers refused advertised facilities simply on the basis of no local banking licence and a Thai correspondence address ?

If they tried this on there, the Regulator in these offshore banking countries would surely have something to say and many of the Thai visa expats reading this, who are account holders at the banks above would surely be infuriated and shut their account [but being a term deposit would not be permitted to do so without massive penalty !.]

To Sonic and others who probably themselves as expats bank offshore, or who know others who do so :

Are ICICI justified in breaking normal offshore banking practice in this way ?

Should they be allowed to get away with this where a customer has endured a heavy financial loss as a result of their astonishing unbelievable breach of normal accepted offshore banking practice ?

Can any offshore bank which solicits deposits have a local banking licence in every country where their depositors reside or have a corresondence address ?...we all know the answer......

[sonicdragon]

Offshore banking in Singapore...beware.....

Thanks for the comment Bendix and Torrenova , but with respect , ICICI is not an obscure bank but the number 1 ....the largest private bank in booming India and the second largest bank in all India and is licenced in Singapore by the MAS (Monetary Authority of Singapore) to accept deposits in Singapore from customers from around the world..

( see www.icicibank.com.sg & www.icicibank.co.uk)

Secondly , friends ,how about the principle involved here which goes completely contrary to what offshore banking is supposed to be all about ? Why do people use offshore banks in centres such as Singapore and Hong Kong ?

ICICI Singapore are soliciting deposits worldwide as a Singapore offshore bank and after receiving these deposits, and without ever informing a customer when he places his funds with them , refuse to honour their advertised commitments to any customer in whose country or at whose correspondence address ICICI has no local banking licence !

So fx should they accept deposits in Singapore from a UK expat with a Cambodian corresponndence address, they would refuse the customer the advertised facilities when called upon to do so, if their bank holds no banking licence in Cambodia.

Give a Spanish correspondence address to the Singapore office and receive no facilities, if no banking licence held in Spain !!

Consider this : The Guernsey, Jersey and Isle of Man banking subsidiaries of HSBC Citibank and UOB (mentioned by Bendix) which so many expats on this forum surely use, also have no banking licence in Thailand . Are their customers refused advertised facilities simply on the basis of no local banking licence and a Thai correspondence address ?

If they tried this on there, the Regulator in these offshore banking countries would surely have something to say and many of the Thai visa expats reading this, who are account holders at the banks above would surely be infuriated and shut their account [but being a term deposit would not be permitted to do so without massive penalty !.]

To Sonic and others who probably themselves as expats bank offshore, or who know others who do so :

Are ICICI justified in breaking normal offshore banking practice in this way ?

Should they be allowed to get away with this where a customer has endured a heavy financial loss as a result of their astonishing unbelievable breach of normal accepted offshore banking practice ?

Can any offshore bank which solicits deposits have a local banking licence in every country where their depositors reside or have a corresondence address ?...we all know the answer......

I've had quite a lot of experience dealing with banks all over the world and at many levels. The problem you are facing is that "normal offshore banking practice" doesn't really mean anything. What is normal to one bank may be alien to another. Taking deposits is a completely different thing from extending credit. They have told you that as a matter of law they are no longer able to extend this facility to you. Since they gave you a written offer and then revoked it, you have a good chance to persuade them to find a solution - why don't you ask them which specific law it is with which they have to comply ? Just call whoever sent you the letter from HO and ask. Or just notify them that your correspondence address is now your UK address and that should presumably satisfy them. I would also advise you to remain polite at all times, and not become belligerent or argumentative as that will probably be counter-productive.

[woodwork]

Many thanks for your advice Sonic and others .

The specific law they quote preventing the bank from allowing the customer access to his funds in line with their commitment ?

"No banking licence held in Thailand "........

even were the customer present for a day there,..no facilities can or will will be provided is what Mumbai Head Office wrote..

But the account was not opened nor held in Thailand or India nor have the funds come from Thailand, going to Thailand or even passed through Thailand !

And is sending a fax to Singapore from Thailand containing instructions to transfer ones funds (which came in from the Channel Isles) from one's account in Singapore to one's account on the Isle of Man indeed a breach of Thai banking law as they claim ?

Ludicrous in my view, do you not agree ? .

.This bank refuses IN WRITING to even give the name of its Manager, Deputy Manager or Compliance Officer let alone be permitted to write to, phone fax or email these 'unnamed officers'.

" We outsource to India" (Mumbai & Pune ) they said..

Furthermore some detective work has revealed that they do indeed have an office in Bangkok which has a huge sign

with the ICICI bank logo both outside and inside their office

in Chong Nongsee. Photos have been taken.

The Bank of Thailand has confirmed however that this office has no permission or licence whatsoever to have a presence or operate in Thailand as full office or even as a representative office. !!

A final point of interest : As a test of their excuse not to offer advertised banking facilities to customers who may be present in Thailand "as no licence held there " their UK office was contacted putting forward an equivalent situation using residency in Spain ( where they also have no banking licence) by a UK expat as an equivalent comparable. .

Their reply : Correspondence or ANY address in this regard is irrelevant, they said, other than in relation to the strict money laundering regulations applied in the UK. .

All rights to ones money unaffected wherever one might be based they emphasised when this question was put to them...

QED ....................QUAD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM.

NB Having read the above I am sure someone such as Bedix will reply that there is a simple solution : for the customer to fly to Singapore where the bank DOES hold a licence and demand one's funds there.

Having read the facts do you really think they would change their views and comply ?

This suggestion was indeed made but their reply was only :

" no need to travel to Singapore although you would be welcome should you visit us there." No mention whatsoever of whether the offered and advertised banking facilities would be available in that case .

No, friends, sadly this really could be a case of a rogue bank.

You only have to check the web to see all the complaints about them. Their behaviour is abominable and I advise all Thai Visa

Members and readers especially those in Thailand to avoid this bank like the plague

[Naam]

no matter how justified your complaint might be the title of the thread

The Dangers Of Banking In Singapore

is misleading.

[sbk]

Agreed, topic title amended.

[thaiclan]

Perhaps you should take it up with MAS if the bank have mislead you with the initial information when you opened the account. You have nothing to lose other than to change your correspondence address and comply with the rules they are setting. Seems like once you have done that there are no more obstacles....? Once you have your money, lodge a statement of complaint with MAS.

Good Luck

[WilliamIV]

Yes - I agree - Lodge a Formal Complaint with MAS

Both about their not Honouring their Advertisements

But also for refusing to give you the Names of their Managers

You should be able to find the Name of their CEO in Mumbai

- I suggest you send him a Copy of your Complaint to MAS

Bill