Thailand's Parliament Convenes First Session Since 2006 Coup

[Plus]

The 1992 shooting wasn't a result of the coup. The coup itself went smoothly, just like in 2006, the problem started when Suchinda didn't honor his promises. Something the current crop of generals surely has learned from, and something that clearly stands them apart.

[Old Man River]

PPP need to find someone to finance them for the next elections, what is Thaksin's possible interest in keeping them going? PPP wasn't set up to govern the country, it was to help Thaksin to save his ass in the courts.

Thaksin might make up and kiss with lots of his adversaries, but his real problem is winning over 60+% of the population who don't want to see his face again. Even if it shrinks back to pre-coup 40+%, hard-core anti-Thaksin haters, confrontation is unavoidable.

You are right that the PPP wasn't set up to govern the country, but the people in the northeast have given them a mandate to do just that. Given enough time to hang themselves, the PPP will and those who will suffer most will be the people who have the least. The economic problems are way to big for this group to deal with.

I agree, confrontation is unavoidable, but it won't happen until this government has clearly shown the inability to manage the country. 6 months?

[advice]

You can thank Isaan for this party being in power. I cannot believe this country, they would rather take a 500 baht bribe that lasts a few days at most than get their country back on track.

Anyone with a brain, voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva. He would of been perfect in any political situation in any country. Thailand is so lucky they have him.

I pray for him in the next election.

[ando]

Yongyut was environment minister when the military toppled Thaksin's government in September 2006.

He was detained for 12 days after the coup because he had oversight over thousands of armed forest rangers, which the junta feared could be mobilized in a counter-coup.

He was released after the rangers were disarmed.

- AFP

Oh really?

that would be a criminal offence (not to mention treason) in all other modern democracies.

But of course the junta managed to get a constitution in giving them amnesty while holding half the country (the opposition half) under martial law.

Though, Thailand operates under different rules which makes it OK.

Now on with justice the Thai way.

Do these people really expect the developed world to take them seriously while they act like a bunch of primary school kids trying to run a legal system?

One thing you can say about the Thai legal system is that it has transparency.

[Lilawadee]

If it was any more transparent it wouldn't be there at all.

[advice]

Yongyut was environment minister when the military toppled Thaksin's government in September 2006.

He was detained for 12 days after the coup because he had oversight over thousands of armed forest rangers, which the junta feared could be mobilized in a counter-coup.

He was released after the rangers were disarmed.

- AFP

Oh really?

that would be a criminal offence (not to mention treason) in all other modern democracies.

But of course the junta managed to get a constitution in giving them amnesty while holding half the country (the opposition half) under martial law.

Though, Thailand operates under different rules which makes it OK.

Now on with justice the Thai way.

Do these people really expect the developed world to take them seriously while they act like a bunch of primary school kids trying to run a legal system?

One thing you can say about the Thai legal system is that it has transparency.

well written!

[Old Man River]

You can thank Isaan for this party being in power. I cannot believe this country, they would rather take a 500 baht bribe that lasts a few days at most than get their country back on track.

They didn't vote for the PPP based on the bribes (and they don't get the whole THB 500 anyway). Among other potential goodies, they voted for the PPP so their debt would go away. The debt is a key part. It is viewed as Thaksin's debt and it is strangling them. Already, the Bangkok Post is reporting that 90,000 are in default on their student loans (totaling approx. THB 4 billion) and this doesn't include loans to buy motorcycles, mobile phones etc. The debt was incurred when Thaksin was PM and rightly or wrongly they expect only he can free them from these obligations.

[Plus]

Do these people really expect the developed world to take them seriously

Democracy doesn't mean much in real world. The West doesn't accept Hamas election victories in Palestine but continues to support Musharraff because people of Pakistan might actually elect someone they don't like. When are they going to let Iraqis have their elections free from occupying army?

Thailand's democratic struggle doesn't mean much to them, they are highly hypocritical when it comes to democracy. They value it only until their own interests are not threatened.

[advice]

You can thank Isaan for this party being in power. I cannot believe this country, they would rather take a 500 baht bribe that lasts a few days at most than get their country back on track.

They didn't vote for the PPP based on the bribes (and they don't get the whole THB 500 anyway). Among other potential goodies, they voted for the PPP so their debt would go away. The debt is a key part. It is viewed as Thaksin's debt and it is strangling them. Already, the Bangkok Post is reporting that 90,000 are in default on their student loans (totaling approx. THB 4 billion) and this doesn't include loans to buy motorcycles, mobile phones etc. The debt was incurred when Thaksin was PM and rightly or wrongly they expect only he can free them from these obligations.

ok, thanks for that info.

[John K]

Thai junta call it quits, vows no more coups

BANGKOK (Reuters) - The military council which ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in a 2006 putsch disbanded itself on Tuesday and promised there would be no more coups as a Thaksin-backed coalition prepared to take office.

The Council for National Security (CNS), widely derided for presiding over an inept government, also called on politicians to stay out of military affairs, suggesting it feared vengeful Thaksin supporters in office.

"Everybody in the CNS, especially the army commander-in-chief, insist there will be no more coups," CNS spokesman Sunsern Kaewkumnerd told reporters.

"In a political transition into a full democracy, which is a sensitive period for all sides, the military should not be involved in politics and politicians should not interfere with the military," he said.

"Therefore, we need a politically neutral person to be defence minister," Sunsern said a month after elections in which the openly pro-Thaksin People Power Party fell just short of an overall majority.

That call followed newspaper reports that Samak Sundaravej, the firebrand PPP leader determined to become prime minister, would also become defence minister.

But the military is in a weak position after the elections proved Thaksin's abiding popularity in the countryside where the majority of Thais live, despite CNS attempts to eradicate his influence.

The PPP campaigned on Thaksin's populist platform and told people a vote for the party was a vote for Thaksin. The former prime minister was ousted months after street protests began against him in Bangkok and faces corruption charges when he returns from exile.

Political analysts saw the results of the December 23 election as a vote against the coup and criticism of the military is becoming ever more trenchant.

"The generals have proved unfit in their handling of post-coup Thailand," Chulalongkorn University political scientist Thitinan Pongsudhirak wrote in Tuesday's Bangkok Post.

"Policy directions have been murky, leadership incompetent, overall administration inept. The generals have made themselves obsolete by botching their latest putsch," he said. The generals accused Thaksin of presiding over rampant corruption and of disrespect toward revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej -- charges he denies -- but an anti-graft panel they appointed has come up with only one case against him.

They also failed to eradicate his Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party despite its court-ordered dissolution for electoral fraud and the banning of Thaksin and 110 senior party members from politics for five years.

Thai Rak Thai members simply took over the almost defunct PPP, which is expected to take office at the head of a coalition government and occupy the most powerful ministries some time next month.

[Lilawadee]

You can thank Isaan for this party being in power. I cannot believe this country, they would rather take a 500 baht bribe that lasts a few days at most than get their country back on track.

Anyone with a brain, voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva. He would of been perfect in any political situation in any country. Thailand is so lucky they have him.

I pray for him in the next election.

Might just work too. I mean they've tried just about anything else, so maybe prayer will work in lieu of convincing enough people that they understand their needs and aspirations.

(Of course I don't agree with the point that's been plastered all over this forum ad vomintum about people voting PPP all being 'stupid' or 'easy to accept bribery'. Here in the South that view is incredibly popular as well, and it doesn't do a whole lot for unity in the country when you convince yourself that people who disagree with you are 'just stupid'. )

[sriracha john]

Each assult in chronological order was worse that the previous and a pattern was emerging later to be linked to very close aids of Thaksin. So with a little extrapolation it is not hard to see the fear of violence was justified in the planned September 20 rally and not as you put it. Your comment is simply not supported by fact.

John, those incidents, graphic as they may be, play but very small part in the greater scheme of things here. Tanks rolling onto the streets and soldiers armed with machine guns prepared to actually kill people who got in their way tends to have a greater impact on most people than a few people with bloody noses in the heat of a political gathering.

Time to let it go as me thinks. You are rehashing a point in political history that has been discussed to death and put to bed by virtually everyone else here.

Time to get over it and move on. Its not a critical point in this thread.

Yongyut was environment minister when the military toppled Thaksin's government in September 2006.

He was detained for 12 days after the coup because he had oversight over thousands of armed forest rangers, which the junta feared could be mobilized in a counter-coup.

He was released after the rangers were disarmed.

- AFP

Oh really?

that would be a criminal offence (not to mention treason) in all other modern democracies.

But of course the junta managed to get a constitution in giving them amnesty while holding half the country (the opposition half) under martial law.

So it would have been better to let these tanks and soldiers take on these thousands of armed rangers rather than detain some wannabe commando leader for 12 days?

With any number of other world-wide miltary coups, someone in Yongyuth's position then would not be getting elected House Speaker today.... he simply would have been shot on day 1.

Edited January 22, 2008 by sriracha john

[advice]

You can thank Isaan for this party being in power. I cannot believe this country, they would rather take a 500 baht bribe that lasts a few days at most than get their country back on track.

Anyone with a brain, voted for Abhisit Vejjajiva. He would of been perfect in any political situation in any country. Thailand is so lucky they have him.

I pray for him in the next election.

Might just work too. I mean they've tried just about anything else, so maybe prayer will work in lieu of convincing enough people that they understand their needs and aspirations.

(Of course I don't agree with the point that's been plastered all over this forum ad vomintum about people voting PPP all being 'stupid' or 'easy to accept bribery'. Here in the South that view is incredibly popular as well, and it doesn't do a whole lot for unity in the country when you convince yourself that people who disagree with you are 'just stupid'. )

Im not sure where you live in the South, but as a person who has lived in the south for 15 years, I can assure you that the majority of southerners did not vote for the PPP and they did not vote for Thaksin either. I would think stupidity would of been a great general comment to make regarding the "others" voting for the PPP, as you would have to be hurting in the back pocket or a complete idiot to vote the other way.

Lets see: a corrupt pidgeon English speaking "person", who did not even get the majority of votes where he was mayor for a time, against a very well educated, stylish "person" who the majority of "educated" people voted for.. I rest my case.

[John K]

That’s all fine and past tense guys, so now lets see if the people that voted for the PPP learn anything from what they did or if they even care.

You new guys are heating up the thread possibly making a mods close the thread finger itch... chill a little.

All the stuff has been hashed before and there are several other open threads more tuned to that past tense topic if you want to take it there.

[A_Traveller]

Over at Asia Sentinel in an article by Daniel Ken Tate, the following quotes might be of interest, as is the article itself.

“PPP will set up the government with a lot of party stalwarts, and then try to negotiate the minefield that lies ahead,” said a PPP economic adviser. “The first step is to regain the trust and confidence of investors. We hope to implement the megaprojects and the populist program, which will be payback to voters in the north and northeast.”

The front runner for finance minister now appears to be Surapong Suebwonglee, a former student leader in the 1970s who is not known for his financial acumen.

“The Senate will go against us all the way,” the adviser said. “There is no point bringing in a name brand as finance minister if he won’t do the hard things like bringing the baht to 35 [to the dollar, from about 31] and firing the central bank governor. The kind of program we are proposing is a major restructuring and we face many obstacles.”

and

Already key cases against Thaksin have been dropped, including one involving the bloody 2003 War on Drugs. Surayud announced on Sunday that an independent inquiry into the three-month drug war, which resulted in more than 2,500 extra-judicial killings, found no evidence to prosecute Thaksin or his cabinet.

The Thai-language Matichon newspaper reported Monday that an appeals panel overturned a Revenue Department order that required Thaksin’s brother-in-law to pay more than 546 million baht in unpaid taxes. This could signal that it’s possible for Thaksin to get the nearly $2 billion in proceeds from his family’s sale of Shin Corp to Singapore’s Temasek Holdings that has been frozen was frozen by the assets panel.

The junta-created Assets Scrutiny Committee also may face the chopping block as many expect a deal between Thaksin and the coup group to do away with most cases against the former premier. Kaewsan Atibodhi, the committee’s secretary-general, said he hopes to bring 15 cases to the attorney general for prosecution within the next three months.

“We still have three months to bargain with the attorney general – if we have a chance to do so,” he said in an interview. “It depends on the attorney general’s judgment whether they think it is proper to drop some cases.”

Even so, he said, the panel has the authority under the law that created it to bring cases directly to the courts if the attorney general tosses them out, a move that could provoke a battle in the parliament with Thaksin’s allies.

Regards

[ando]

Each assult in chronological order was worse that the previous and a pattern was emerging later to be linked to very close aids of Thaksin. So with a little extrapolation it is not hard to see the fear of violence was justified in the planned September 20 rally and not as you put it. Your comment is simply not supported by fact.

John, those incidents, graphic as they may be, play but very small part in the greater scheme of things here. Tanks rolling onto the streets and soldiers armed with machine guns prepared to actually kill people who got in their way tends to have a greater impact on most people than a few people with bloody noses in the heat of a political gathering.

Time to let it go as me thinks. You are rehashing a point in political history that has been discussed to death and put to bed by virtually everyone else here.

Time to get over it and move on. Its not a critical point in this thread.

Yongyut was environment minister when the military toppled Thaksin's government in September 2006.

He was detained for 12 days after the coup because he had oversight over thousands of armed forest rangers, which the junta feared could be mobilized in a counter-coup.

He was released after the rangers were disarmed.

- AFP

Oh really?

that would be a criminal offence (not to mention treason) in all other modern democracies.

But of course the junta managed to get a constitution in giving them amnesty while holding half the country (the opposition half) under martial law.

So it would have been better to let these tanks and soldiers take on these thousands of armed rangers rather than detain some wannabe commando leader for 12 days?

With any number of other world-wide miltary coups, someone in Yongyuth's position then would not be getting elected House Speaker today.... he simply would have been shot on day 1.

Naw.

It would have been better if the generals stayed out of politics and did the job they get paid to do. And also be subject to the same laws of treason that anyone else would be.

I find it really bizarre that such a thing could be considered as "normal military practice". But then again I am one of 99% of people from a western democracy who don't think the military ousting of a democratically elected government is a good thing either.

[ando]

You new guys are heating up the thread possibly making a mods close the thread finger itch... chill a little.

Why would the Mods want to close the thread?

I often see you and SJ giving it out without such suggestions of same, but when you are copping some flack yourself you seem to revert to talk of posters being banned and threads being closed.

Why is it so?

[hammered]

For what it is worth, I personally would rather we discussed current issues relating to the topic of parliament convening obviously within the historical context they are situated rather than rehash the same tired old arguements with nobody changing their opinion.

[John K]

You new guys are heating up the thread possibly making a mods close the thread finger itch... chill a little.

Why would the Mods want to close the thread?

I often see you and SJ giving it out without such suggestions of same, but when you are copping some flack yourself you seem to revert to talk of posters being banned and threads being closed.

Why is it so?

It seems to have gone from the debate level down to argument level and some of the points of argument have questionable validity.

If SJ or I return a reply it is based in fact or the best possible information. Many of the points of argument by some have no substantial supportive information and can be sometimes viewed as trolling.

I always ask for information to support ones point if I have doubt about the validity. That usually results in the poster not replying if it is fabricated and can’t be supported or is some cases they just continue to rant on lowering themselves in they eyes of others. When it reaches that level they are mostly just ignored by everyone.

[Seneque]

Is the Baht going back to 40 (against USD) ?

Are girls still be allowed to wear (and tear) mini-skirts ?

Is the 800K retiree requirement going to be 8000K ?

Is the smile going to show the teeth again ?

We all want thailand to change and not change and hope together that the change will not change anything ...

I really hope that nothing will change the one thing that anybody wishes not to change : siam

[Lilawadee]

Of course I don't agree with the point that's been plastered all over this forum ad vomitum about people voting PPP all being 'stupid' or 'easy to accept bribery'. Here in the South that view is incredibly popular as well, and it doesn't do a whole lot for unity in the country when you convince yourself that people who disagree with you are 'just stupid'

Im not sure where you live in the South, but as a person who has lived in the south for 15 years, I can assure you that the majority of southerners did not vote for the PPP and they did not vote for Thaksin either.

Of course. I think we had a communication breakdown: THAT VIEW (of PPP/Thaksin voters being poor illiterate idiots) is incredibly popular in the South as well. Not PPP, obviously!

you would have to be hurting in the back pocket or a complete idiot to vote the other way.

Well, let's just say I disagree and leave it at that.

Lets see: a corrupt pidgeon English speaking "person", who did not even get the majority of votes where he was mayor for a time, against a very well educated, stylish "person" who the majority of "educated" people voted for.. I rest my case.

You seem to disregard the history of having ones preferred elected government ousted by force, while this stylish "person" is applauding and supporting this. Then it becomes unlikely to then vote for that person, no matter how stylish he is..

[Lilawadee]

Why would the Mods want to close the thread? I often see you and SJ giving it out without such suggestions of same, but when you are copping some flack yourself you seem to revert to talk of posters being banned and threads being closed.

Why is it so?

It seems to have gone from the debate level down to argument level and some of the points of argument have questionable validity. If SJ or I return a reply it is based in fact or the best possible information.

Often the source is an editorial from publications like The Nation, in which case people may not be convinced they're looking at actual facts. When I quote a source it's often a respected international publication, not from a paper that's under censorship and/or actively in favour of military government / managed democracy.

Many of the points of argument by some have no substantial supportive information and can be sometimes viewed as trolling.

LOL.. Gotta hand it to you, excellent way of accusing people who disagree with you of being trolls without actually saying it. But seriously, trolling means posting phony crap for no other purpose than to incite. I haven't seen that on this forum since I joined, I only see people stating their opinions and anayses, which presumably is the nature of 'a forum'. And then people agree or disagree with those statements, I think that's fair as long as viewpoints are presented respectfully.

I always ask for information to support ones point if I have doubt about the validity. That usually results in the poster not replying if it is fabricated and can't be supported or is some cases they just continue to rant on lowering themselves in they eyes of others. When it reaches that level they are mostly just ignored by everyone.

Which reminds me, you lashed out at Sunrise a couple times about answering 'your question' but then when I asked what that question was I don't think you replied? I don't mind to drop the issue of course, but I'm still curious.

[swain]

Is the Baht going back to 40 (against USD) ?

Yes

Are girls still be allowed to wear (and tear) mini-skirts ?

Of course

Is the 800K retiree requirement going to be 8000K ?

No its going to be eliminated all together!

Is the smile going to show the teeth again ?

Its already started to happen!

Positive thinking!

Edited January 22, 2008 by swain

[sriracha john]

You new guys are heating up the thread possibly making a mods close the thread finger itch... chill a little.

Why would the Mods want to close the thread?

I often see you and SJ giving it out without such suggestions of same, but when you are copping some flack yourself you seem to revert to talk of posters being banned and threads being closed.

Why is it so?

Can you point out a single thread (let alone your grossly exaggerated "often") that I've said that it's due for closure soon that it wasn't?

Edited January 22, 2008 by sriracha john

[jumnien]

You new guys are heating up the thread possibly making a mods close the thread finger itch... chill a little.

Why would the Mods want to close the thread?

I often see you and SJ giving it out without such suggestions of same, but when you are copping some flack yourself you seem to revert to talk of posters being banned and threads being closed.

Why is it so?

Can you point out a thread that I've said that it's due for closure soon that it wasn't?

Countless times in "Bringing Thaksin to Account" thread; but let's stick to the OP's post here, please.

[sriracha john]

You new guys are heating up the thread possibly making a mods close the thread finger itch... chill a little.

Why would the Mods want to close the thread?

I often see you and SJ giving it out without such suggestions of same, but when you are copping some flack yourself you seem to revert to talk of posters being banned and threads being closed.

Why is it so?

Can you point out a thread that I've said that it's due for closure soon that it wasn't?

Countless times in "Bringing Thaksin to Account" thread; but let's stick to the OP's post here, please.

You mean the thread I've updated dozens of times over 14 months?

When did I say that it was due for closure? My post history there say the exact opposite of what you say I've done.

[jumnien]

Does anyone know when the Parliament will have its next meeting?

[Khun Jean]

Time for a cleanup. I suggest removing about 30 posts containing nothing else than arguments between posters.

[jumnien]

Time for a cleanup. I suggest removing about 30 posts containing nothing else than arguments between posters.

Seconded!!!

[Lilawadee]

You mean the thread I've updated dozens of times over 14 months? When did I say that it was due for closure? My post history there say the exact opposite of what you say I've done.

Let's just leave it. It's off topic in this thread and nobody cares. This is what e-mail is for. When things get closed, they get closed, no harm done and for sure another topic will be ready to continue. I'll leave that up to the site management's discretion. A lot of the 'arguments' that happen here aren't even about the topic at hand, but are about 'you said / he said'.

So to continue with the topic, does anyone think the new government can deal with a looming global economic crisis? Because I for one think they've got a snowball's chance in heck to do anything about it. I'm just wondering what the direct consequences will be for Thailand..?

Edited January 22, 2008 by Lilawadee