Is That How Thailand Affects People?

[geevlus]

How about how living in the West affects a Thai? 5 years ago I brought a Thai Lady back to my homecountry, where we live to this day. The changes in her Character/Personality have been unbelievable. It's funny how a Country/Culture can affect an individual so much...

[Naam]

I reckon the OP is a troll.

or somebody extremely p*ssed off because he can't afford the life of "sad old people living in Thailand"

[seonai]

Where is this 'friend' living in Thailand OP

[Naam]

Going troppo manifests itself in a variety of ways.

Very few people spend 2 years in Thailand without undergoing some personality changes.

It humbles some people and makes others pompous, makes slobs out of some and gentlemen out of others.

Fair to say, though, if there's bad in you - Thailand will bring out the worst in the course of time.

thanks for mentioning the group of people to which i belong.

Well said, Mr. N!

What's your thing, personality changes, going troppo or both?

Mine is alter ego and a talent for stumbling on fruitloops.

besides a hectic year when building our home i am leading the same life since i retired 17 years ago. since that time i never really lived in Germany nor in Florida but in/on our properties (if not on holidays abroad) which by coincidence were located in Germany and Florida. i don't exaggerate when claiming "i hate to cross my property line" and indeed i only cross it when i have to or willingly go on a rather short holiday. the same applies to Thailand nowadays where by coincidence our home is located.

luckily Mrs. Naam has since many years accepted that fact and handles all "foreign matters". but recently she muttered "can't we go once in a while to some nice and fancy restaurant?" but admits defeat when i reply haven't we been to dozens of nice and fancy expensive restaurants in Dubai and Rio less than a year ago?"

[iegova]

As a Western professional woman who lived in Thailand, I could tell you a lot about characters such as your friend. In fact, I noticed that they come in many different guises, even among some who were doing "well" in Thailand. My experience was that they seemed to think that money could make up for everything, even their lack of character and decency. I guess in Thailand it can.

BTW that was another highly debatable topic for us. I stood on the point that all people are sort of equal in value, I mean had I happened to sit in a bar with Bill Gates and y friends I'd not treat Bill any special at all, he is of no more value to me than others just because he made loads. Nothing to worship for. My friend loughed at that - I found there is a solid hierarchy in his head. More money you have - higher you are - shit on the ones below and crawl in front of the ones higher than you. Heck it! In my mind there is no human hierarchy - it's just flat, i don't crawl in front of no one in the world and don't use advantages I have over others. In fact I hate slavish mentalities.

All sorts of people come to Thailand mate.

Your friend sounds like a sex tourist.

Try mixing in different circles, there are loads of good,decent,humble people living in Thailand.

thanks, that's precisely what i was gonna do, just don't know where to start, plus I don't live in Thailand, but next time I'm there - for sure I want to find other sorts of people.

You don't mention how old your friend is now not that that matters. Thailand has an ability to build people up in their own imaginations until they perceive themselves as master of all that surrounds them. There they are perched on the biggest wave riding it like the best pro that ever existed. It is then that the real Thailand rears up and kicks them in the crutch and their whole, imaginary, existance collapses around them. Different people get to different heights on the wave before getting the wake up call and different people react in different ways to that slap down. We all go through it but some have a more fragile grip on reality than others and it is those that make up the majority of the legion of bitter and twisted souls propping up bars all over the country.

In answer to your question "Is that how Thailand affects people?" my answer is "Yes, if you let it".

What is the future for your friend? If what you write is fact best you can do is get him a comfortable bar stool, one less thing for him to complain about.

huh! thanks both of us early 30's

As I've said in another thread- if huge crowds of people are running up to meet you in some social scene, then unless you really are a supermodel then something's wrong with the scene. It's up to the individual to see through the delusion or not. There are plenty of places to go here where you're just one of the crowd and you might get lucky like everyone else in the crowd.

"S"

Sorry didn't get that.

I reckon the OP is a troll.

No I'm not, that's a genuine story and thinking about why I started it - probably for 2 reasons: 1-share the bitterness of loosing a good old friend I knew once in a while 2-convince myself that it's not about thailand at all, it's the things hidden within a person, thailand merely helps to open up whatever is within.

How about how living in the West affects a Thai? 5 years ago I brought a Thai Lady back to my homecountry, where we live to this day. The changes in her Character/Personality have been unbelievable. It's funny how a Country/Culture can affect an individual so much...

Interesting! So what's the change?

Where is this 'friend' living in Thailand OP

Bangkok

[meemiathai]

BTW that was another highly debatable topic for us. I stood on the point that all people are sort of equal in value, I mean had I happened to sit in a bar with Bill Gates and y friends I'd not treat Bill any special at all, he is of no more value to me than others just because he made loads. Nothing to worship for. My friend loughed at that - I found there is a solid hierarchy in his head. More money you have - higher you are - shit on the ones below and crawl in front of the ones higher than you. Heck it! In my mind there is no human hierarchy - it's just flat, i don't crawl in front of no one in the world and don't use advantages I have over others. In fact I hate slavish mentalities.

You are lying to yourself.

Consciously you might have values that everyone in the world is equal, but in reality, it is impossible not to think beyond that.

What if that was Hitler sitting next to you? Would you not be more polite to him than others?

Doctors and farmers: Do you think they should earn same wages?

Human lives have different values, regardless of what you say. Unless one has grown up living in a box.

[iegova]

You are lying to yourself.

Consciously you might have values that everyone in the world is equal, but in reality, it is impossible not to think beyond that.

What if that was Hitler sitting next to you? Would you not be more polite to him than others?

Of course I wouldn't. As far as there is no threat to my life. Like I said I don't creep in front of no one, especially in front of one of the biggest murderers in the world.

Doctors and farmers: Do you think they should earn same wages?

No way! You missed the point. I said that monetary aspect does not put people on any kind of ladder in my opinion. Wealth does not create A hierarchy. I don't care how much you make instead I judge you purely by your own self, by who you are. See the difference? A highly paid doctor can be a prick, a low paid farmer can be a decent person. This is my ranking. It's not monetary at all.

Human lives have different values, regardless of what you say. Unless one has grown up living in a box.

This way of thinking is a slippery road. It is the basis for mass murders, genocide and etc. Nevertheless I may partially agree to that, however what I completely disagree with is that money constitute this value. This is <deleted>. Otherwise such people as Buddha, Gandhi, etc. are of less value than Rothschild and Paris Hilton? Complete <deleted>.

Edited January 26, 2008 by iegova

[meemiathai]

You are lying to yourself.

Consciously you might have values that everyone in the world is equal, but in reality, it is impossible not to think beyond that.

What if that was Hitler sitting next to you? Would you not be more polite to him than others?

Of course I wouldn't. As far as there is no threat to my life. Like I said I don't creep in front of no one, especially in front of one of the biggest murderers in the world.

Doctors and farmers: Do you think they should earn same wages?

No way! You missed the point. I said that monetary aspect does not put people on any kind of ladder in my opinion. Wealth does not create A hierarchy. I don't care how much you make instead I judge you purely by your own self, by who you are. See the difference? A highly paid doctor can be a prick, a low paid farmer can be a decent person. This is my ranking. It's not monetary at all.

Human lives have different values, regardless of what you say. Unless one has grown up living in a box.

This way of thinking is a slippery road. It is the basis for mass murders, genocide and etc. Nevertheless I may partially agree to that, however what I completely disagree with is that money constitute this value. This is <deleted>. Otherwise such people as Buddha, Gandhi, etc. are of less value than Rothschild and Paris Hilton? Complete <deleted>.

I wasn't exactly disagreeing with you. I believe I did get your point. I too treat everyone the same. I too do not give a shit about anyone's background.

But in reality, it is difficult if not impossible, to do so. The society does not implement this idea. Even those on the recieving end of your respect wouldn't believe it or understand it. Try treating someone with very low status in a society with a lot of respect like he is of very high status and see how uneasy he might feel?

Money is heavily related to every aspect of life. So it is not easy to simply just take away the money factor and tell what a person really is like. It's easy to be a gentleman when you have money. But let's say if there is one piece of meat and 10 people in a room, one has to kill 9 people to get his meat, is he a bad person? Will you treat the gentleman who simply paid 100baht for his meat better than the one who killed 9 people?

One more question: Why should a doctor working 8 hours earn more than a farmer working 8 hours?

[dogleg]

You are lying to yourself.

Consciously you might have values that everyone in the world is equal, but in reality, it is impossible not to think beyond that.

What if that was Hitler sitting next to you? Would you not be more polite to him than others?

Of course I wouldn't. As far as there is no threat to my life. Like I said I don't creep in front of no one, especially in front of one of the biggest murderers in the world.

Doctors and farmers: Do you think they should earn same wages?

No way! You missed the point. I said that monetary aspect does not put people on any kind of ladder in my opinion. Wealth does not create A hierarchy. I don't care how much you make instead I judge you purely by your own self, by who you are. See the difference? A highly paid doctor can be a prick, a low paid farmer can be a decent person. This is my ranking. It's not monetary at all.

Human lives have different values, regardless of what you say. Unless one has grown up living in a box.

This way of thinking is a slippery road. It is the basis for mass murders, genocide and etc. Nevertheless I may partially agree to that, however what I completely disagree with is that money constitute this value. This is <deleted>. Otherwise such people as Buddha, Gandhi, etc. are of less value than Rothschild and Paris Hilton? Complete <deleted>.

I wasn't exactly disagreeing with you. I believe I did get your point. I too treat everyone the same. I too do not give a shit about anyone's background.

But in reality, it is difficult if not impossible, to do so. The society does not implement this idea. Even those on the recieving end of your respect wouldn't believe it or understand it. Try treating someone with very low status in a society with a lot of respect like he is of very high status and see how uneasy he might feel?

Money is heavily related to every aspect of life. So it is not easy to simply just take away the money factor and tell what a person really is like. It's easy to be a gentleman when you have money. But let's say if there is one piece of meat and 10 people in a room, one has to kill 9 people to get his meat, is he a bad person? Will you treat the gentleman who simply paid 100baht for his meat better than the one who killed 9 people?

One more question: Why should a doctor working 8 hours earn more than a farmer working 8 hours?

I dont think you did get the point. Everyone is out to get whatever monetary reward the market will pay, that's one thing, but it shouldn't on it's own command any special respect.

iegova, and I, just dont get the High Status concept that you imagine should be assigned to anybody for this, Doctor or Farmer!

edited for sense - I think

Edited January 26, 2008 by dogleg

[dogleg]

Ah! I just remembered what the topic is!

I must admit that I had a period in my life when I felt a bit superior, (I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!), working /travelling/spending abroad, but i eventually matured enough to realise I was and am just very lucky.

So I would suggest that the friend in question may be just a bit immature and will hopefully grow out it.

[meadish_sweetball]

Friend of OP seems like a bit of a twattus braggingus. Anyways, provided you're talking about a real person and not just testing the waters: Who is to say that he would not have had the same type of superior attitude and half-baked prejudices to deliver if he had moved elsewhere?

In fact, I recognize the same attitude from some guys I remember from back home who had moved from the small town I grew up in, to the capital. They just seem to have a need to brag and put others down.

That's not to say that perhaps there are more of them in Thailand than on average.

[farangkel]

So, because your friend acts like a jerk, there is somehow something in Thailand's water that made him that way? Different people act and react to their lives in different ways and usually the responsiblity for actions lies completely with the individual. Nothing to do with how Thailand "affects" people. Everything to do with your friend. He could act the same way if he'd been living in Argentina or Dubai.

Jimjim,,jim...

Your answer while well intentioned sounds like it could have come from someone working in a Thai culture ministry. Perhaps Thailands has had its affects on you, me and others. Is that affect or effect, nevermind.

I could see the quote now from Khun such and such, department of silly walk,,,

"Thailand is very popular around the world with many peoples who want to come here and live work and holiday. Last year we had 13 million visitors and this year we expect 16 million because Thailand is so popular around the world with many peoples. However, we only want high quality tourists who will tell the world that its the best place in the world. But sometimes we get bad people who come to Thailand to do bad things because we are so open, free and libel, I mean liberal. We cant control those who come here and after a while think they are more superior than others, what can i say it happens to us all."

[farangkel]

As a matter of interest, backpackers here in Australia spend far more per head than any other tourists.

Cheers, and good luck with your learning experience...

I travelled Australia and the backpackers i met had little arms and deep pockets, maybe they spend more in the 6 months there then a ordinary tourist spends in 2 weeks.

Back to the OP many expats of all persuasions i meet do seem to have the gained the secret of life and know more about the human condition that us mere tourists. As many have been bitten by a bar girl they seem to be rude and very resentful to these girls and for some reason still like to drink in their company.

The one thing that i find most amusing about many younger expats (under 35) is that they now believe themselves to be gods gift to women and have no fear approaching any girl. Was in a nightclub last week when some fool who could never get a girl back home started playing the stud to one of the girls i was with, they way she teased him then made him look silly with one of the best knock backs i have ever seen really did make me smile.

I am glad I am an older expat (over 35), but that doesnt explain why you were in a Thai nightclub, nothing to do with your pulling ability back home? Kidding

[iegova]

One more question: Why should a doctor working 8 hours earn more than a farmer working 8 hours?

Thanks to dogleg, he answered quite well. I appreciate it may be difficult for an asian mind to perceive total absence of social classes/society hierarchy, but I come from the background where 'everyone is created equal'. Doctor gets more simply because of his skill, it has nothing to do with WHO he is or where on the ladder he is. One would not earn any respect from me merely beacuse he is of 'high class' or makes loads.

[a2396]

This is one man's opinion. So what? There are as many opinions about Thailand as there are people, good & bad.

[Jimjim]

So, because your friend acts like a jerk, there is somehow something in Thailand's water that made him that way? Different people act and react to their lives in different ways and usually the responsiblity for actions lies completely with the individual. Nothing to do with how Thailand "affects" people. Everything to do with your friend. He could act the same way if he'd been living in Argentina or Dubai.

Jimjim,,jim...

Your answer while well intentioned sounds like it could have come from someone working in a Thai culture ministry. Perhaps Thailands has had its affects on you, me and others. Is that affect or effect, nevermind.

I could see the quote now from Khun such and such, department of silly walk,,,

"Thailand is very popular around the world with many peoples who want to come here and live work and holiday. Last year we had 13 million visitors and this year we expect 16 million because Thailand is so popular around the world with many peoples. However, we only want high quality tourists who will tell the world that its the best place in the world. But sometimes we get bad people who come to Thailand to do bad things because we are so open, free and libel, I mean liberal. We cant control those who come here and after a while think they are more superior than others, what can i say it happens to us all."

I actually found your response quite funny. Anyway, I'm merely saying that to blame Thailand for this guy's owns personal shortcomings is nonsense in my opinion. Like someone else mentioned, he had friends who did the same thing when moving from the small town to the big city. Some people are just that way no matter where they go. I admit I felt more enlightened and perhaps with superior views to my fellow Americans after I'd been to England and compared it to the U.S. because of England's free health care and gun laws (much less murder than the U.S. I believe). After a while I realized I was being dumb and perhaps having reverse culture shock and that every place is different and has different positives and negatives and that all I can hope for is for each country to eventually learn the positives of other countries and try to include them in their own societies.

But, back to the point, the responsibility of how one reacts to one's environment is one's own individual responsibility and I believe has little to do with specific places and everything to do with the person's character before he/she ever arrived in the place (in this case, Thailand). Blaming Thailand shirks that responsibility. So saying Thailand makes someone a bad or arrogant person is folly. I've heard some say there's a lot of crazy farangs in Thailand and maybe Thailand has something to do with it. Back in the States I've met lots of crazy farangs, so, sorry, they're all over the world, not just Thailand. And most of them were probably nuts before they ever got here.

[zeusbheld]

No seriously, has anyone got the opposite experience, i.e. a person you know improved greatly, good sides have grown and overwhelmed the bad ones while living in Thailand?

If I could engage in some self-reflection for a moment, I'd say that being in Thailand has made me a better person. One poster mentioned the God-complex regarding approaching women and I'd have to say that it can be a good thing, to a point. Of course, any confidence that gets close to arrogance is a bad thing, but realizing that you aren't an ugly, inept fool can do wonders for one's worldview. Sure, many of the 'bargirls' are simply stroking egos to get the wallet to come out, but not every girl is a bargirl (thankfully!).

I was one of those awkward, shy, sarcastic fellas back in farangland, and I didn't realize what I had to offer as a person until I came to Thailand. Again, the God-complex thing is definitely bad, but an injection of confidence has seriously changed my life. I was back in farangland for Christmas, and many people commented on how self-assured I was, how I had seemingly 'found myself'. I hope they weren't making up a euphemism for arrogant pr*ck!

BFD!

good for you, but of the "awkward, shy, sarcastic fellas*" i've met who moved to Thailand and thus went from zero to hero (at least in their minds) behave very badly and treat the women in their life like shit. just my experience, but most of the zero-to-hero types i've met didn't become better people, just morphed from one kind of dipsh*t to another.

*(i don't see how sarcastic fits the profile btw; most of the sarcastic people i know aren't shy at all, and some are even funny).

[zeusbheld]

Perhaps Thailands has had its affects on you, me and others. Is that affect or effect, nevermind.

that'd be "effects." (just one of the many fine services i provide).

by the way please let me know where i can find the rest of the Thailands i want to try some of the others.

[iegova]

good for you, but of the "awkward, shy, sarcastic fellas*" i've met who moved to Thailand and thus went from zero to hero (at least in their minds) behave very badly and treat the women in their life like shit. just my experience, but most of the zero-to-hero types i've met didn't become better people, just morphed from one kind of dipsh*t to another.

I think this summarizes this thread quite precisely. Thanks to all who participated!

[AdultGolfer]

Hi all,

I am surprised no one has directly brought up the fact that for many of us living in Thailand, we've never had it better financially. For me personally, my purchasing power when in Thailand more than triples! I live half of the year in Chiang Mai and half in Oslo, Norway. This HAS had an effect on my mood and personality - but I revert back to my old grumpy self when in Norway. I think I have been successful in not letting my financial freedom in Thailand go to my head, but it's not always easy to objectivly observe/evaluate myself. But money does change people! This has little to do with Thailand, though. Any inexpensive country will do.

-AG

good for you, but of the "awkward, shy, sarcastic fellas*" i've met who moved to Thailand and thus went from zero to hero (at least in their minds) behave very badly and treat the women in their life like shit. just my experience, but most of the zero-to-hero types i've met didn't become better people, just morphed from one kind of dipsh*t to another.

I think this summarizes this thread quite precisely. Thanks to all who participated!