Teaching With No Experience

[Ajarn]

No, the ones he mentioned from the internet are UNACCREDITED degrees 

That is just your assumption, isn't it?

"Send us $300 and your resume, and we'll give you a degree"

...and try to get one that will be useful (English Literature etc ).

Come on Ken, you're just pissing in the wind trying to legitamize such internet scams

[kenkannif]

Erm no I'm not assuming as I said they're from unaccredited universities, I get maybe 2-3 e-mails a day from them. If they were fakes the Unis they were faking would hammer them (take them to court etc.) so it's easier for them to issue unaccredited degrees and leave the fakes to the forgers. I'll cut and paste some details here in the next day or so, my box (ooeerr missus) is empty at the moment.

Scam? Yes, I'm not disputing that (and it's more an argument now of semantics), but not fakes!

I'm not trying to legitamise it either, I'm not saying anyone should get one (well it's up to them, maybe for show although $300 smackaroonees is a fair bit to pay for something just to show) but they're not fakes!

[Khutan]

At the end of the day, those so called universitied are just exploiting loopholes on the law in various countries.

I had an applicant turn up one day who had more paper than I had sheets on a roll of toilet paper. I was impressed, I was so impressed I wanted to read his PhD Thesis, so I asked questions like "Where was it published", then the response I got when I wanted to contact the University and get a copy from the mentors......

Needless to say he didn't get the job.

Simple answer, contact the university, are they in the phone book, do they have a website ???? Since the internet was based on universities in some countries, you would expect some web presence.

[Ajarn]

If you do the research, look closely and realize that just because they have a name like 'blank university' doesn't mean they're a real university...Look at accreditation, too.

One example...The top of the page on google 'university degrees'..

"Easy American Degrees

www.belforduniversity.org Earn Accredited & Verifiable Degree from home. No study, no exams."

Fully accredited by the International Accreditation Agency for Online Universities (IAAOU) & Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA).

All fake places made to look legit. Look at their websites yourself. Only one other 'school' is accredited by them, and on their list of 'schools awaiting approval', every link to every school listed is dead...

From http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-13201.html

Excerpt from a recent newspaper article regarding Rochville University:

Mike Mather Investigates

Diploma Mills - Degrees Without Taking Classes

Email to a Friend  Printer Friendly Version    

Your NewsChannel 3's Mike Mather

(Norfolk, VA, February 17th, 2004, 7:54 p.m.) Riley Golski is learning to count change, tell time and make compound words. By all measures, he’s one of the brightest students at Norfolk’s Taylor Elementary. So bright is Riley that his grasp of recreational sports recently earned him a college degree.

He'll be the first to tell you he isn't qualified. “I don't know lots of stuff, yet,” he said, barely glancing up from the day’s coloring project. Riley’s degree came from a “diploma mill,” one of hundreds of Internet-based businesses that promise university credentials and transcripts for as little as a few hundred dollars. Investigators say it is a $200-million-a-year industry that often dispenses undergraduate and advanced degrees in exchange for little or no academic work.

To see how much – or how little – one of these businesses would scrutinize the life and educational experience of an applicant, NewsChannel 3 applied to Rochville University using Riley’s unembellished accomplishments. Because of Riley’s athletic background, we asked for a degree in “exercise science” from a list of dozens. We paid $75 extra to have the transcripts reflect a 3.5 grade-point average. We were also given to option of “back dating” the degree to the date of our choice.

Rochville granted the degree for about $300, no questions asked. The university also provided car decals and a verification service that potential employers would contact if they were unsure of the degree. “Usually the employer is interested in verification of the documents only, for which Rochville University provides an excellent verification system, where complete authentication of the degrees and certificates is provided,” the university wrote to us while we were still pretending to be Riley. “This service verifies that the degrees obtained are authentic and meet certain eligibility criteria.” Rochville University’s professional web presence didn't surprise Dr. Anne Savage. “It is very easy to set up a fake diploma mill, a fake school, on the Internet,” said Savage, who heads the distance learning department of Old Dominion University. That department allows students to attend or view classes without ever being at the university.

Savage says she doesn't have much sympathy for degree-seekers who knowingly cut corners in the pursuit of phony credentials, but she also worries some questionable universities may be misleading well-intentioned applicants by overselling the clout of their degrees. In those cases, she says an applicant’s money would be better spent on an accredited school. “The fact that someone takes advantage of them breaks my heart,” she said. “It’s not right. It angers me.” A federal investigation is underway to see how many of the nation’s top government and Pentagon employees gained jobs or promotions by using credentials from either diploma mills, or other types of correspondence schools that are not accredited.

“No contender for a job — whether it's in the private sector or federal government — should lose out to a candidate because that candidate holds a bogus degree,” Virginia congressional representative Tom Davis told the Associated Press last month. Davis, a Republican, is one of two legislators who've asked the Government Accounting Office to examine the resumes of top government and Pentagon leaders. The investigation was sparked when a Washington-based industry newspaper revealed a top government officer held degrees that didn't require academic work. An investigation by Government Computer News showed that Laura Callahan, the former deputy chief information officer of the Homeland Security Department, “bought” three degrees from Wyoming-based Hamilton University. According to the trade publication, Hamilton awards degrees based on life experience and not coursework.

Callahan is on leave during the investigation. Davis has asked for a more broad investigation. The questioned education falls into two general categories. First, there are the diploma mills that award degrees based on an applicant’s “life experience” rather than on traditional academics. For a fee of a fee hundred to a few thousand dollars, an applicant can gain degrees the university promises to vouch for if ever questioned by an employer. The second type are schools that may offer degrees for a combination of academic work and life experience, even though their institutions are not recognized by traditional accreditation agencies. In some states, like Oregon, using a bogus degree to get a job or promotion can be a crime. That’s one reason the Oregon Department of Education keeps the largest known government listing of diploma mills and questionable universities.

A NewsChannel 3 search of online resumes also found dozens of people in Virginia and North Carolina claiming education or degrees from both diploma mills and the unaccredited institutions listed by Oregon. We found teachers, clergy, authors, lecturers, military personnel, a high-ranking emergency medical director, and even a state delegate claiming degrees or education from questionable sources. The state delegate, Lionell Spruill Sr., lists “Pacific Western University” on his state resume. After a 1997 lawsuit, that Hawaii-based university now carries disclaimers on its web site that the academic curriculum is not accredited by any agency recognized by the Secretary of Education. Oregon lists Pacific Western University on its roster of “substandard” institutions. Spruill represents parts of Chesapeake and Suffolk.

Despite what his resume listed last month, Spruill told NewsChannel 3 that he did not hold a degree from Pacific Western. “I took some correspondence courses” through the school, he said. “I did not get a degree.” When told his official House of Delegates biography listed him as holding a bachelors degree, he said, “that’s wrong.” He promised to fix the overstatement. Spruill’s current biography lists education at Pacific Western, but does not include a degree. The “Doctorate of Laws” Spruill lists on his resume is an honorary degree. As for Rochville University, it was easier to gain the degree for a first-grader than it has been to locate the school. None of the university’s numerous Internet pages lists an address. The fax number goes to Imlay, Nev. The school’s domain name lists an apartment building in Malden, Mass., as its address. The web site is routed through a server in St. Louis. When, still posing as Riley Golski, we asked Rochville administrators where the campus was, this was the reply: “Rochville University is an online Accredited University, operating from USA . All transactions and verifications are done electronically and all communication takes place via Internet, e-mail or fax.”

When we contacted the school again, but this time as NewsChannel 3, no one ever wrote us back. But they did email us as Riley, offering a masters degree for $269.

Here’s the information we supplied to Rochville University, on Riley’s behalf, in our application for a degree.: “During the past six years, I have studied numerous forms and disciplines of sports and recreation, to include the participation in a tennis academy at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Va.; extensive aquatics instruction at Mallory Country Club also in Norfolk; the study of soccer tactics and skill-building at various locations in Virginia; and graduation from a rock-climbing course in Virginia Beach, Va. I ask that you consider my years of study and participation in the fields of athletics, exercise, recreation and nutrition as meeting the requirements for a degree in Exercise Science.”

Web links:

State of Oregon’s list of diploma mills, unaccredited colleges and “substandard” institutions:

www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) searchable database of accreditation status:

www.chea.org/institutions

If you have questions about this story, feel free to email Mike Mather at [email protected]

Fakes, frauds, scams. No adresses, no schools, no teachers. And illegal to use in some States. I personally know of three people using their 'degrees' from Pacific Western University who were later fired from their jobs.

Let's not suggest that these are anything more than fake, fraudulent, and a scam. And someone who does such a thing...Liars, cheats, thieves, frauds...

Yes, there are legit online degree programs from legit universities, Bellflower university being one of the who is legit and even registered in Thailand. But you don't get a degree in 3 weeks, and you actually have to test, too.

If in doubt, here is a searchable database of legit schools in the U.S.

http://www.chea.org/institutions/search.cfm

[kenkannif]

Substandard, useless, worthless, scams, bogus, phony, etc. etc. etc. I'll agree on. But not fakes per se. Fake money is money copied from an original and used to pass of as original Dollars, these are not! Same as fake watches etc.

Yes, I think they're rubbish, but they're not the fake degrees that are so popular in Thailand (or so I've heard;) )

[Ajarn]

Substandard, useless, worthless, scams, bogus, phony, etc. etc. etc. I'll agree on. But not fakes per se. Fake money is money copied from an original and used to pass of as original Dollars, these are not! Same as fake watches etc.

Yes, I think they're rubbish, but they're not the fake degrees that are so popular in Thailand (or so I've heard;) )

Ken, I think you're just playing semantics games now.

Fake university= fake degree

Not a fake copy of something legit, but a pure fake. Period

fake

Function: noun

Synonyms: actor, bastard, bluffer, bum, bunk, bunko, charlatan, cheat, counterfeit, deception, deke, fabrication, faker, flimflam, forgery, four-flusher, fraud, gold brick, gyp, hoax, imitation, imposition, imposture, junque, make-believe, mountebank, phony, plant, pretender, pretense, pseudo, put on, reproduction, scam, sell, sham, sleight, spoof, swindle, trick

fake

Function: adjective

Synonyms: affected, artificial, assumed, bogus, concocted, counterfeit, fabricated, false, fictitious, forged, fraudulent, invented, make-believe, mock, phony, pretended, pseudo, reproduction, sham, simulated, spurious

[Ijustwannateach]

Perhaps the word everyone can agree on is "worthless." And I don't think anyone's arguing here that one should seek a job based on those kind of quals! Aren't we getting a little off-topic? Perhaps this "looniversities" could be discussed in another thread?

"Steven"

[Ajarn]

Perhaps the word everyone can agree on is "worthless."  And I don't think anyone's arguing here that one should seek a job based on those kind of quals!  Aren't we getting a little off-topic?  Perhaps this "looniversities" could be discussed in another thread?

"Steven"

Certainly, 'worthless' would not fit, because it does have value to some in getting a job, no matter how tenuous it might turn out to be...But, I get your point, and completely agree on that

Your mention of a thread on looniversities might not bad bad idea, either. In doing just a few minutes of research, it was obvious that this is a HUGE scam, and many many people in high places have used such fake degrees to get hired...

[kenkannif]

The ones I've seen sent to me are from unaccredited universities, if they admit that and you buy the degree knowing that it is not in my opinion a fake degree.

Okay I see your point but they vastly different from the KSR ones that are the main fake ones here.

I know people that have applied for jobs with them mate, quite a few actually!

[Ajarn]

The ones I've seen sent to me are from unaccredited universities, if they admit that and you buy the degree knowing that it is not in my opinion a fake degree.

What is an unaccredited university? That Spams and is legit? Example?

The only ones I've received via email have been from 'soundalike' fake universities, one of which I used as reference... Still, I don't believe there is any legit university doing a three-week (or anything close) bachelors degree, and certainly not for a few hundred bucks... More like a couple of thousand, at least.

I know people that have applied for jobs with them mate, quite a few actually

Yeah, me, too! Even hired one guy, partly because he was upfront, but mostly becuse he taught a trial class, and was excellent...

After his contract with me, he got hired at Harrows.

[kenkannif]

I just thought they were unaccredited and thus not accredited.

I should get some more in the next few days and will post them here.

This covers a lot of it: Link!

Look on the right hand side (sponsored links) and you'll see there's accredited Uni's (or so they say) offering degrees in 30 days?

Sorry bad mood today!

Edited September 28, 2004 by kenkannif

[Khun Larry]

When you buy the fake degree make sure it says "FULLY ACCREDITED"

All other fake degrees are not as highly recognized in Thailand!!!

Thai's know a good fake degree from a shoddy fake degree.

[Ajarn]

I just thought they were unaccredited and thus not accredited.

I should get some more in the next few days and will post them here.

This covers a lot of it: Link!

Look on the right hand side (sponsored links) and you'll see there's accredited Uni's (or so they say) offering degrees in 30 days?

Sorry bad mood today!

Hope my tenaciousness isn't adding to your headaches, but I'm afraid it is...Sorry 'bout that mate. Come for a swim in my little Paradise, 'Baan Suan Sawan'. It'll change your mood, I'm sure

That is a good link, and the value is on the left side, I think. On the right side, I checked each one, and only www.capelladegrees.com seems to be legit at all. I followed up on a newsgroup search, and found only positive comments- except about the name...

http://www.onlineunivesity.com/

"Benefit by getting a Bachelor, Master or Doctorate College Degree in a matter of days with no coursework."

http://www.instantdegrees.com/

"QUICKLY succeed by getting a Bachelor, Master or Doctorate College Degree in JUST DAYS with no coursework. "

www.customdegrees.com

"College Degree in 30-days

Accredited University Degree Online

HS, Bachelor, Master & PhD Programs "

And so on.....All there to take your money for a fake degree

The links worth reading, imo....

http://www.web-miner.com/deunaccredited.htm

http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i31/31a03501.htm

http://www.geteducated.com/articles/degreemills.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,35068,00.html

And a discussion group..

http://www.degreeinfo.com/static/forum_arc...m_23page_4.html

I was unable to find any legit university with degrees that are not accredited by legit agencies. Quite a number of legit ones though, as I alluded to earlier. But they all require lots of time and money, and none accept previous 'life experience' as credit towards a degree that I'm aware of...

[PeaceBlondie]

As for "unaccredited" or "not accredited" - can we agree they're virtually synonymous?

The university I eventually got my (only) degree at, was 19 years old when it finally met all the standards and received its final accreditation. Took that long back in 1949-1968, but when I got the degree in 1971, it was already an accredited uni, so it doesn't matter if part of the time it wasn't.

In the USA, accreditation is done regionally, like "South Central" or another one on the west coast. Their standards are probably the same.

However, it is possible that someone really attended an actual university with classrooms, professors giving lectures, maybe even dormitories and a true library and authentic courses and realistic grades, etc. - even if the uni still isn't finally accredited. But in such cases, you're free to decide that an education at a real but unaccredited resident uni, isn't probably quite as good as a real education at Oxford or Harvard.

[kenkannif]

Now if only I was man enough to apologise and admit I was wrong

[mbkudu]

Many law makers, congressmen and congresswomen, representatives and other surly polititions in the US were busted recently for having these types of degrees.

These are people of high power in the US government who draft laws that effect the lives of Americans. Makes teachers passing them off look like small potatoes.

[phormio]

Many law makers, congressmen and congresswomen, representatives and other surly polititions in the US were busted recently for having these types of degrees.

These are people of high power in the US government who draft laws that effect the lives of Americans. Makes teachers passing them off look like small potatoes.

Not too worry, its the $1000/hr lobbyists actually writing the legislation(with real law degrees); the elected representatives of the people of the United States hardly ever read the laws that they vote on.

[phormio]

...

^Not a bad post for Pudgi; he's being quite restrained!

...

Gee, I thought it was nemmy(aka Nemesis) under a different Nom de Geurre.

[mbkudu]

Many law makers, congressmen and congresswomen, representatives and other surly polititions in the US were busted recently for having these types of degrees.

These are people of high power in the US government who draft laws that effect the lives of Americans. Makes teachers passing them off look like small potatoes.

Not too worry, its the $1000/hr lobbyists actually writing the legislation(with real law degrees); the elected representatives of the people of the United States hardly ever read the laws that they vote on.

Boy, that's makes me feel better about that. Thanks for the reassurance in our respected government.

[Jockstar]

Does anyone actually know of someone using a degree bought online and it working? Or not? Any stories?

[Ajarn]

Does anyone actually know of someone using a degree bought online and it working? Or not? Any stories?

Of course they can work, since the vast majority of schools don't do anything to verify the 'degree'. After that, it's just up to luck and karma, I'd say.

If I sound too much like a stick in the mud, my apologies. I have, in fact, knowingly hired teachers with fake degrees. Mostly it's a desperation move by someone, and I might very well do the same myself, being a very good survivor- sometimes it does seem better for you to break the rules for your own immediate survival.

But, for someone in a position to do things the right and legal way, but choose the fake degree route simply to go the easiest route and end up cheating people into paying you money for some bullshit qualifications, I have zero good feelings. I take this as a serious character flaw in someone, and I would do nothing to support them.

For the teacher who wants to enter the profession for a long time (at least not as a temp gig for a few months), it's best to do things the accepted way. Among your teaching peers are some pretty smart people, and they're always sniffing for other Ajarns with fake paper. A couple of choice academic questions that you can't answer, and your cover is blown. Once word gets out, your rep, and maybe your job, is gone. If you live in Bkk, you'll have no problem getting another gig, bur outside of Bkk, things can be quite different. Word gets around quick when it comes to this kind of 'gossip'

The rest is up to you....