Expats - Farangs Speaking The Local Language

[ProThaiExpat]

Thank you IJWT for your informative post. I have always wondered why, as a others described a natural linguist with an excellent ear (parrot ear) for copying accents, I am unable to get much done in Thai.

My son-in-law picks it right up but then he is a musician of the "natural" variety. Also my other languages have no tones and little inflection.

I can still learn and speak languages at my advanced stage of fossilization, but Thai still is too great a Mt. Everest for me to climb. Of course, being mated to a very good English speaking Thai, necessity is ameliorated substantially.

I think that if they developed a test for tone cognizance they would be able to have a very high predictor of one's propensity to learn Thai well.

[Neeranam]

A recent scientific study (mentioned in the Economist demonstrated that there is a genetic element in the ability to learn tonal versus non-tonal languages- it would certainly explain the number of linguistically gifted and hard-working types I've met who knew multiple other languages (including some Asian ones) but couldn't handle tonal ones like Thai or Chinese.

"S"

A recent study by me demonstrated that the inability to learn Thai was due to a vice called laziness and/or a feeling of superioity.

[Deke]

After 26 years, I speak Thai with very little accent and have no problem with reading although I read much slower in Thai than I do English. Unfortunately, my writing ability is very limited since I studied the language on my own and never got any formal education in the tonal rules, etc.

It certainly makes life a lot simpler being able to communicate with whoever you need to.

[garro]

After 26 years, I speak Thai with very little accent and have no problem with reading although I read much slower in Thai than I do English. Unfortunately, my writing ability is very limited since I studied the language on my own and never got any formal education in the tonal rules, etc.

It certainly makes life a lot simpler being able to communicate with whoever you need to.

Hi Deke, just out of curiosity.

How many years before you before you could speak without an accent?

Would you still say that you are learning

[Deke]

How many years before you before you could speak without an accent?

Would you still say that you are learning

Losing the accent was a gradual process for sure. I'd guess that it took ten years easily, maybe more.

I'm definitely still learning and do come across a term or phrase every now and then that I'm not familiar with. It's still in the back of my head that I need to really buckle down and study all of the tonal and grammar rules so that I can write the language properly but I'm getting lazy in my old age.

[Furbie]

Speaking – very good, but not fluent. However, pronunciation is excellent, and have had many Thais ask why I speak so clearly (learn to read and write, that will help more than anything with pronunciation).

Reading – OK, but losing abilities every day – don’t use it enough on more difficult things to read.

Writing – getting really bad, as I never do it. I really have to think to remember how to write less used letters.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

(learn to read and write, that will help more than anything with pronunciation).

Absolutely correct IMHO as well.

[PhilHarries]

PH, just about to start at AUA, how good is it?

After 4 years can just get by but need to learn more.

Due to work commitments only did it evenings and, to be honest, after a day's slog the old grey matter wasn't too receptive. It was good enough to give us the basic building blocks but we could have done with more. One of the problems was the teachers were not fluent enough in English to fully explain some of the concepts of the language so we had to put up with "that's the way it is". The other thing that would have helped is to have been in a daily environment where Thai was more informal, we were constructing a major refinery project and had to get the technical details over quickly without threat of misunderstanding. Therefore English + Thainglish were almost de rigeur.

If you already have 4 years under your belt you should do fine depending on thelevel of the course you've enrolled for. You might find it a bit basic.

[meadish_sweetball]

I put - 'Enough to get by', but I know people with a lot less knowledge than I to say the same. Enough to get by when buying a house, for example, is not the same as enough to get by when ordering fried bananas. I can read well and write poorly.

Same here, pretty much.

I can handle all everyday situations, my pronunciation is good enough to fool people over the phone, I can read contemporary novels with the occasional use of a dictionary, can read periodicals fairly well but need to make more use of the dictionary than when reading novels. I get the gist of tabloid articles, but I still have a long way to go before speaking Thai using fully idiomatic constructions instead of just grammatically correct ones.

My spelling of common words is ok, but I have to look up the spelling of all not so frequent irregular words. My handwriting looks like a 9-12 year old; neat and clear, but lacking flow and character.

[Ulysses G.]

As far as I know, Sabaijai is the only one who should be filling in the, "I speak Thai like a Thai" section, and he hasn't posted here.

Who is the culprit claiming this besides him?

[GuestHouse]

PH, just about to start at AUA, how good is it?

After 4 years can just get by but need to learn more.

Due to work commitments only did it evenings and, to be honest, after a day's slog the old grey matter wasn't too receptive. It was good enough to give us the basic building blocks but we could have done with more. One of the problems was the teachers were not fluent enough in English to fully explain some of the concepts of the language so we had to put up with "that's the way it is". The other thing that would have helped is to have been in a daily environment where Thai was more informal, we were constructing a major refinery project and had to get the technical details over quickly without threat of misunderstanding. Therefore English + Thainglish were almost de rigeur.

If you already have 4 years under your belt you should do fine depending on thelevel of the course you've enrolled for. You might find it a bit basic.

I agree with Phil on this, we were working on the same project at that time and studying with the AUA course, though I think I benefitted from being surrounded by a far less 'formal' department in the office, hence I had the opportunity to learn in and out of class.

Interestingly there was also a level of hostility among some expat managers to fellow expats learning Thai.

I continued with the AUA Course and found it to suit me very well. The course books are first rate.

A point to note: The AUA Course books use the International Phonetic Alphabet, there are arguments for an against this, but I found it useful and it again became useful when learning Italian and now in my Arabic lessons.

If you already have the basics of Thai, then one other book I found to be good was 'The Fundamentals of the Thai Language' - It's particularly good on Grammar and Composition.

[egg]

l voted ,, very little ,, but it should have been a little more than none ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, l am interested but find it very hard to remember words and also to get the tones right

cheers

egg

[too true]

Egads! I was talking and reading and thinking all at the same time and I hit Like a Thai! instead of very good.... Can get by in almost any situation in Central and Northern Thai. Often mistaken for Thai on the phone. Can read newspapers and have read a novel (but it took a lot of concentration), and write like an elementary schoolgirl. Would not be able to function comfortably in a high level academic conversation, but neither would my husband (and he is Thai!), so figure I'm doing all right for my 9 years here with no formal lessons. Still have a long way to go, though, before I feel like a native.

Also, because I've spent most of my time around Thai men (as opposed to Thai women), sometimes I'm afraid I sound kind of crass, especially in the northern dialect. That's normal, though, isn't it? There are a lot of foreign men around who've learned Thai from their wives and they sound almost like ladyboys to me, probably because they've picked up a more feminine sounding intonation and rhythm of speaking.

[PeaceBlondie]

Also, because I've spent most of my time around Thai men (as opposed to Thai women), sometimes I'm afraid I sound kind of crass, especially in the northern dialect. That's normal, though, isn't it? There are a lot of foreign men around who've learned Thai from their wives and they sound almost like ladyboys to me, probably because they've picked up a more feminine sounding intonation and rhythm of speaking.

Which is one more reason not to learn Thai in northern Thailand...my boyfriend sometimes ends his sentences with 'jaow.'

[too true]

Also, because I've spent most of my time around Thai men (as opposed to Thai women), sometimes I'm afraid I sound kind of crass, especially in the northern dialect. That's normal, though, isn't it? There are a lot of foreign men around who've learned Thai from their wives and they sound almost like ladyboys to me, probably because they've picked up a more feminine sounding intonation and rhythm of speaking.

Which is one more reason not to learn Thai in northern Thailand...my boyfriend sometimes ends his sentences with 'jaow.'

When I was first getting a grip on separating Thai and northern Thai, we had a discussion about the gu/mueng , ha/khing pronouns and it was made crystal clear to me that no situation would ever arise when I would ever need to use any of those words, as they don't sound nice coming from the mouths of women. And I have never used them in conversation with anyone, but I often end my northern sentences with neu or naaaa (as they're ended in my husband's village dialect) and totally leave out the jao. I learned my central Thai from TV, movies and music, but I learned my northern Thai from fishing ponds.

[Neeranam]

As far as I know, Sabaijai is the only one who should be filling in the, "I speak Thai like a Thai" section, and he hasn't posted here.

Who is the culprit claiming this besides him?

He IS Thai.

[meadish_sweetball]

one more reason not to learn Thai in northern Thailand...my boyfriend sometimes ends his sentences with 'jaow.'

Once one has practiced the tone system of Standard Thai enough (quite possible to do in a classroom setting), one can hear the difference between the two. People in Chiang Mai proper always reply in Standard Thai when you address them that way, and won't switch unless they're confident you can really speak kham mueang.

It's only out in the villages that people may answer back in Northern Thai because they don't feel comfortable with Standard Thai.

[Jockstar]

Bannork is pretty good. Reads, writes and speaks to a decent level. My wife reckons he speaks Thai like a Thai.

[Jockstar]

I can get by. But cant have big conversations. But since i dont live in bangkok anymore. I am a bit out of practice.

[samran]

I put - 'Enough to get by', but I know people with a lot less knowledge than I to say the same. Enough to get by when buying a house, for example, is not the same as enough to get by when ordering fried bananas. I can read well and write poorly.

Same here, pretty much.

I can handle all everyday situations, my pronunciation is good enough to fool people over the phone, I can read contemporary novels with the occasional use of a dictionary, can read periodicals fairly well but need to make more use of the dictionary than when reading novels. I get the gist of tabloid articles, but I still have a long way to go before speaking Thai using fully idiomatic constructions instead of just grammatically correct ones.

My spelling of common words is ok, but I have to look up the spelling of all not so frequent irregular words. My handwriting looks like a 9-12 year old; neat and clear, but lacking flow and character.

my writing is worse, but general reading is OK, depending on genre. A couple years of reading translating government speak makes the business papers OK to read as well as official documentation. Thai Rat though - forget it.

Pronunciation varies. Simply it depends. If I use it ofen, then it is great. Other times, it is crap. Just depends what mode my brain is when I wake up - some days it flows, other days, it doesn't. Vocab could always be better.

Biggest complement was when the call centre staff at AMEX continued to ask me security questions as they thought I was a Thai who had stolen a farangs credit card, and had to make a note that I was well, a Thai citizen with a farang name.

The biggest reality checks are always the taxi drivers, who never hesitate to tell me that I'm not 100% (Which I know, but it hurts...).

[Totster]

My problem is that although I can understand what someone is saying or asking when speaking clearly/slowly (not all the time I might add), I come stuck when trying to reply.. I know what needs to be said, but the thought process is very slow.

totster

[Gary A]

I know a guy in Jomtien who thinks he is very fluent. He gets very upset that the Thais can't speak their own language.

I speak enough to get by but since I am becoming rather antisocial in my old age, I forget what I do know when a drunk Thai wants to have a conversation. I'm perfectly content to have my wife do my talking and that allows me to keep a VERY low profile.

[sayitaintso]

my girlfriend speaks and reads english quite well yet says "i not like when farang speak thai".

i use that as my excuse, along with the fact that no one else in the world speaks thai.

i do, however, practice my bar girl thai every chance i get as that is the only time this language is made even

remotely fun for me. having taken courses in most of the worlds major languages including spanish, french,russian,

japanese,portuguese and even norwegian i just can't seem to get past the idea that most thais that i encounter on

a daily basis just don't seem to want to speak thai with me whereas any of the other languages i mentioned, having

(or attempting) a conversation is not only educational and enlightening but amusingly awkward and still fun.

[Jimjim]

I was wondering how many of you expats - farangs live here and speak or are learing the local language

You mean, Thai?

Edited January 25, 2008 by Jimjim

[meadish_sweetball]

I generally don't have any problems with Thais who won't speak Thai, except for in the most touristy places where I don't go very often - and if their English is decent I will just switch, it's not a big deal. Sometimes I just use English from the start because I can't be bothered going through the 20 questions Thais often ask when they hear you can speak Thai.

Outside of the tourist areas, people are usually relieved to hear you speak Thai so they don't have to use their limited English.

When I was just starting out back in the 90s I found lots of Thais happy to help me practice, even in places like guest houses and beach restaurants. But this was after learning to pronounce it reasonably okay.

I can understand why some don't like to conduct business with, or take food orders from foreigners who don't speak Thai very well - the risk for misunderstandings is huge.

Many people can't hear how strong their own accents are, and think Thais should understand, even when tones, vowels, consonants and grammar are all wrong.

[moldy]

Enough to make the Thais have to think of some other excuse for mucking up

Seriously, if you can speak "phaw chai dai" that is no mean achievement, it's a very difficult language.

I think the average farang probably has very poor pronounciation. But...

On more than one occasion I've had a hel_l of a time communicating with a bus driver, clerk, or shop assistant in Thai, only to then have the Thai behind me tell him/her what I just said. Maybe it's a 50/50 thing with me. Am I the only one?

[thaihome]

No, I think some Thais have difficulty dealing with farang that speaks even reasonable Thai. It is so unexpected they have trouble listening. They tend to be the types that try to fit everyone, and this is mostly other Thais, they meet into a neat little category that tells them how to deal with the situation. A Thai speaking farang is too out of the box.

TH

[meadish_sweetball]

Yeah, it's true some Thais have an easier time understanding than others.

Obviously *some* people are either not very imaginative, have hearing difficulties (considering the overall noise level in Thai cities compared to in Europe I think minor to major hearing difficulties must be more common) or just have very little experience listening to unfamiliar accents, whereas others are more used to hearing foreigners speak, or just have a better imagination.

And then there's the 'wrong language software loaded' syndrome, where the person is nervously intent on listening for English, or has convinced himself or herself that it's impossible to understand foreigners, so that the message doesn't reach home even though the pronunciation and grammar are ok, but for a person listening for English it will come out all garbled.

The same thing actually happens to me sometimes when my wife says something to me in English - I expect her to speak Thai as we always do, and then what she says just sounds like gibberish until she repeats it again.

That can usually be solved by one or a few slowly spoken and exaggerated common phrases though. Once they've made the switch it is alright.

[sayitaintso]

Enough to make the Thais have to think of some other excuse for mucking up

Seriously, if you can speak "phaw chai dai" that is no mean achievement, it's a very difficult language.

I think the average farang probably has very poor pronounciation. But...

On more than one occasion I've had a hel_l of a time communicating with a bus driver, clerk, or shop assistant in Thai, only to then have the Thai behind me tell him/her what I just said. Maybe it's a 50/50 thing with me. Am I the only one?

no, i think that pretty much sums up my experience to a T. it is incredibly frustrating to deal with. i don't mind trying to speak and converse in thai at all, but times like that make me think they want to keep their language all to themselves and i am happy to oblige.

[GuestHouse]

On more than one occasion I've had a hel_l of a time communicating with a bus driver, clerk, or shop assistant in Thai, only to then have the Thai behind me tell him/her what I just said

I think I have posted this before, but here goes again as it is relevant.

I once called my bank in Sriracha to ask about arranging a transaction. The clerk, lets call him 'Somchai' took my call, answered all of my questions and then took the details of the transaction from me so that he could get the paper work ready for when I came into the bank to sign on the line.

When I went into the bank, I asked for Mr Somchai, he came forward and then responded to ever thing I said with 'urgh' and that special embarrassed look Thais have when they don't understand.

A female clerk joined in to interpret, she had no problem understanding what I was saying.

So I asked if there was another Mr Somchai who I might have spoken to earlier - No there was only one Mr Somchai at the bank.

So I explained I had called earlier and spoken with Mr Somchai, he looked totally puzzled now, but sure enough the paperwork was all ready and correct, awaiting only my signature.

Back at the office I related this to my Thai colleagues, and then out of curiosity I called the bank again and asked to speak to Mr Somchai - and yes he understood everything I said to him.

So go figure that one out.

My theory is some Thai people just can't get their head around the fact that a foreigner speaks Thai - They see a white face and their eyes switch their ears off.