Pre-nuptial Agreements In Thailand

[pluto_manibo]

I have spoken/written with about 20 law firms in regards to Pre-Nups. Some, (quite a reputable lawyer in Pattaya!), say they are not enforceable in Thailand, others (big International Law firm in Bkk), say the "wife to be" needs separate counsel and all assets need to be detailed, others say it can be done without problems as long as no foreign law is implied and the people signing have not been misled or forced under duress to sign.....Needless to say the price quotations go from 10,000 baht up to 60,000 baht....

Taking into consideration that Thai law states that what was gained before marriage is private property and any usufruct, interests, profits acquired after marriage is considered communal property apart from inheritance and gifts.....Sin Suan Tua and Sin Somros, I woud like to know:

1. Anyone who has had to actually use the pre-nup in case of divorce, in Thailand and was it recognised?

2. A reputable lawyer in Pattaya area to draft a legally binding and just agreement?

3. In order to register the pre-nup agreement, at the time of marriage registration does it just need to be signed by the parties involved with witnesses in front of the registrar(no lawyers involved)?

4. Is it really worthless as some people say? I am from the netherlands....I know UK has different issues in regards to prenups.

Thanks for letting me know of your experiences and advice on finding good legal counsel/lawyers in Pattaya for drafting an agreement.

[tropo]

It's obvious that you don't trust her, so why get married in the first place?

[jumnien]

Actually, my wife and I did a pre-nuptial agreement in BKK and it was a wonderful exercise and trust-building to confront what each of us imagined would be fair in the event of a divorce. It was a good exercise to go thru and I think we both felt more comfortable afterwards. Many people are star-struck and lovey-dovey and blinded by bliss in the period leading up to a marriage, especially here in Thailand. It's not a bad idea to interject a bit of reality and frank discussion into the mix.

I hope I never find out if the pre-nupt is enforceable; if I had to do it over again, I'd do it over again.

[dogleg]

It's obvious that you don't trust her, so why get married in the first place?

That's a bit too simplistic. In many cases such as my own it would be about protecting my kids' inheritance. As sensible as making a will I'd say.

[tropo]

It's obvious that you don't trust her, so why get married in the first place?

That's a bit too simplistic. In many cases such as my own it would be about protecting my kids' inheritance. As sensible as making a will I'd say.

It's not really simplistic. If you consider marriage a risk, then you're definitely not ready. Anyway, I've never married and don't believe I ever will, so that's what I personally think of the idea.

If you really don't trust her, don't worry about pre-nups, just hide your money well...that's not difficult.

[pluto_manibo]

Trust is overrated! Situations change and people change....Still no answers to my questions! No personal experiences anyone?

[jumnien]

I guess the lack of answers to the OP shows that those who have pre-nupts stay married!!!

[tropo]

Trust is overrated! Situations change and people change....Still no answers to my questions! No personal experiences anyone?

You've almost got that right...but really it's the marriage that is overrated. Everyone knows that the chances of a marriage lasting forever is slim, so why bother?

Making pre-nups is preparing for failure before you begin...it's against the whole concept of marriage and shows lack of trust and faith when those traits are most needed to allow a marriage the chance to succeed.

It's hard to succeed in anything with negative thinking.

[LaoPo]

Trust is overrated! Situations change and people change....Still no answers to my questions! No personal experiences anyone?

Draft and sign a pre-nuptial agreement in The Netherlands, not Thailand. The agreement has to be drafted in a language your future spouse can read and understand, in this case probably Thai or English; upon signing, the presence of an official translator is required.

Go and visit a (larger) Notary -Notaris- office which has knowledge of/with international marriages.

I would draft a 'Will' at the same time, in case there are (previous) children involved.

PM me if you wish to know more but I have NO experience with pre-nups in LOS; I doubt if many Farang do such a thing in Thailand or their own homeland BEFORE they marry....which is not clever in my opinion.

But, in the West still many couples marry without a pre-nup.....dumb dumb dumb...

Note: it has nothing to do with trust as a previous poster said, but that's aside and a complete different topic..

A very good Lady friend of ours married 2 1/2 years ago; however her assets are much larger than his; she regrets now she didn't arrange for a pre-nup. It's not always: man-has-more than girl....

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Trust is overrated! Situations change and people change....Still no answers to my questions! No personal experiences anyone?

You've almost got that right...but really it's the marriage that is overrated. Everyone knows that the chances of a marriage lasting forever is slim, so why bother?

Making pre-nups is preparing for failure before you begin...it's against the whole concept of marriage and shows lack of trust and faith when those traits are most needed to allow a marriage the chance to succeed.

It's hard to succeed in anything with negative thinking.

I don't know which country you are originally from, but next time you're back in your homeland I suggest you talk to an official Notary office. They can explain to you it is not about trust, it's about protecting BOTH partners in case something -nasty- happens.

Your presumption is only in the view that the/a man has more assets than the girl/Lady.

Small example: a man has a business; happily married and 2 children. Man's business is in big problems; suppliers, taxman and Gosh knows who knocks on the door where the Lady lives with 2 kids....to take the car, house, cash in the bank and everything else....

With a pre-nup nobody can touch the assets in the name of the spouse/Lady.

I could describe many more examples.

LaoPo

[britmaveric]

From what I hear its near impossible to be enforced in Thailand. Prob protect your Western assets, but not anything in Thailand.

[LaoPo]

From what I hear its near impossible to be enforced in Thailand. Prob protect your Western assets, but not anything in Thailand.

Correct; but I wasn't talking about Thailand based assets; in that case, forget my messages

LaoPo

[Frotting]

I have spoken/written with about 20 law firms in regards to Pre-Nups. Some, (quite a reputable lawyer in Pattaya!), say they are not enforceable in Thailand, others (big International Law firm in Bkk), say the "wife to be" needs separate counsel and all assets need to be detailed, others say it can be done without problems as long as no foreign law is implied and the people signing have not been misled or forced under duress to sign.....Needless to say the price quotations go from 10,000 baht up to 60,000 baht....

Taking into consideration that Thai law states that what was gained before marriage is private property and any usufruct, interests, profits acquired after marriage is considered communal property apart from inheritance and gifts.....Sin Suan Tua and Sin Somros, I woud like to know:

1. Anyone who has had to actually use the pre-nup in case of divorce, in Thailand and was it recognised?

2. A reputable lawyer in Pattaya area to draft a legally binding and just agreement?

3. In order to register the pre-nup agreement, at the time of marriage registration does it just need to be signed by the parties involved with witnesses in front of the registrar(no lawyers involved)?

4. Is it really worthless as some people say? I am from the netherlands....I know UK has different issues in regards to prenups.

Thanks for letting me know of your experiences and advice on finding good legal counsel/lawyers in Pattaya for drafting an agreement.

Hi

It seems nobody has answered all of your questions in this thread. Far be it from me to judge your motives for wanting a pre-nuptial agreement, I know of two good Lawyers (Tii Nai Kwam) in Pattaya, who could do the job. They're both about as straight as you'll get in Thailand.

Khun Non Yusonsri

183/14 Soi Post Office (near Pizza Hut off beach road)

Tel: 038-710896

E-Mail: [email protected]

The other is called Khun Shan Chaisarn, and has an office halfway along Number 3 road near the crossroads at the bottom of the hill (upper floor in building on south side of road). I'm sorry I don't have his number with me but it's easy to find. He is the better of the two for this kind of thing. You will get the first consultation free. A nice bloke with a bit of integrity, which is unusual for a lawyer anywhere.

I have a Thai wife myself and have never wanted a pre-nuptial. The way I see it, if it all goes pear-shaped you'll get shafted anyway (this is Thailand and presumably you are a Farang). When you buy land for your wife/girlfriend, you will have to sign a form at your local land office to say that the money used for purchase belonged to your wife prior to the purchase, and that you make no claim on the title in the event of your divorce. So you're screwed in any land deal. (You can lease it back from here for 30 years...however) I've been through the land buying process a number of times now - same every time. I trust my wife, but am not naive enough to think that things will always be idyllic. The bottom line is how much money are you prepared to write off if in the event you have to.

Rgds and Chauk Dii

[gzu88bv]

I like sunrise07’ statement. Pre-nuptials are for those who use their brain from time to time and do not want to burn their ass…… I did it for under THB 10000 and, while such an agreement should be fair to both sides, the said paper has never been an issue for me and my wife ever since. Naturally, you do not need such an agreement, if you can hardly make the 40K family income (no pun intended).

[keestha]

Also take a look at this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=105865

[JonnieB]

I trust my wife, but am not naive enough to think that things will always be idyllic. The bottom line is how much money are you prepared to write off if in the event you have to.

That about sums it up best

Only bring over to Thailand what you are willing to loose in any relationship break-up. Consider it a one-time alimony/child-support payment. Keep all your other assets "back home" and out of her reach.

Overall, not really too difficult and fair to the lady in event of break-up.

[ianh68]

I trust my wife, but am not naive enough to think that things will always be idyllic. The bottom line is how much money are you prepared to write off if in the event you have to.

That about sums it up best

Only bring over to Thailand what you are willing to loose in any relationship break-up. Consider it a one-time alimony/child-support payment. Keep all your other assets "back home" and out of her reach.

Overall, not really too difficult and fair to the lady in event of break-up.

So are funds in UK bank accounts, unit trusts etc "out of her reach?"

[dsfbrit]

I trust my wife, but am not naive enough to think that things will always be idyllic. The bottom line is how much money are you prepared to write off if in the event you have to.

That about sums it up best

Only bring over to Thailand what you are willing to loose in any relationship break-up. Consider it a one-time alimony/child-support payment. Keep all your other assets "back home" and out of her reach.

Overall, not really too difficult and fair to the lady in event of break-up.

So are funds in UK bank accounts, unit trusts etc "out of her reach?"

If you don't tell her about them they are!!!

To the OP, I have a pre-nup, but I don't think you will find many examples of court cases, as my lawyer told me that usually what happens is the couple come to the lawyer's office on separation and try to sort it out amicably first.

The pre-nup splits the Thai assets 50/50 and the UK assets are mine. The 50/50 split is a messy calculation as if the land is her name its hers and money before the marriage is yours etc... etc... I am sure you know all the rules though.

If your wife or her new boyfriend is a 'smart cookie' who has travelled the World, then they may know how to get at your assets in the UK. If you are just up against a girl from Issan (say) then she won't know how to get at these UK assets.

By the way I am not trying to 'diss' people from Issan. Its just that my wife is from Issan and I understand people from there quite well. They are in the main not well educated. Certainly my wife isn't and she is also very trusting - quite a sweety actually! I would feel bad if I tried to enforce the pre-nup too strictly. I think I have pretty much decided that in the event of divorce, to just let her have all the 'bolted down' asstets in Thailand (house/land) etc and keep the Uk side for myself.

Good luck with the marriage, what you are doing is sensible, hoping for the best, but planning for the worst, Paul Mccartney would think so anyway

Edited September 3, 2008 by dsfbrit

[chiangmaibruce]

Not sure why the Op started this thread in the visa section. Maybe mods could merge it with this one on the general section - also started today

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pre-nup-Marriages-t173410.html

[chiangmaibruce]

It's not really simplistic. If you consider marriage a risk, then you're definitely not ready. Anyway, I've never married and don't believe I ever will, so that's what I personally think of the idea.

If you really don't trust her, don't worry about pre-nups, just hide your money well...that's not difficult.

To follow that logic then, anyone who buys house insurance is not ready to be a home-owner

I sort of agree with the second part though, in that it is one or the other. If you go the pre-nup route then that normally involves full disclosure of assets. So if your pre-nup doesn't hold water (or pre-nups where you have one for Thai assets and one for home country assets), then your other half knows full well if it's worth lawyering-up and coming after you

PS: And no, I'm not planning on heading for the divorce court anytime soon