Buying Property In Thai Name- Then Lease Back

[moldy]

I went the company way with my first disasterous marriage. Tried the company way and don't like it 1 bit. Still trying to get the in laws out. Probably will succeed, but lets face it the whole company thing is dodgy really. Technically I have the house sure but I wonder if I'll ever see the money again. Nasty business.

So I'm back in an altogether better relationship. My Thai girlfriend already has a house paid through a successful business of ours really and we've been living as man and wife for 4 years. We're now engaged.

So as soon as the first prop is disposed of I want to buy again. Main motive is to provide somewhere that I (we) can live in unmolested, capital growth during our lifetime, and provide her with another real asset when I likely die first.

Leasehold looks good, but if she dies first then what? Disaster in more ways than one. I'd assume as she's my wife I'd inherit everything, but how is that possible when I don't have any land rights? Could the property then go in my son or daughter's name with same lease deal?

How can I ensure I get to stay there a lifetime?

[yorkman]

Leasehold looks good, but if she dies first then what? Disaster in more ways than one. I'd assume as she's my wife I'd inherit everything, but how is that possible when I don't have any land rights? Could the property then go in my son or daughter's name with same lease deal?

How can I ensure I get to stay there a lifetime?

Has you girlfriend got kids or other family? She leaves it to them, or your son or daughter assuming they are Thai citizens.

[ThaiLawOnline]

A simple usufruct contract registered on the title deed for your lifetime will give you all the rights to stay there for the rest of your life. But you won't be the "owner", your girlfriend will be.

There are plenty of information about usufruct agreements on this website.

[moldy]

Leasehold looks good, but if she dies first then what? Disaster in more ways than one. I'd assume as she's my wife I'd inherit everything, but how is that possible when I don't have any land rights? Could the property then go in my son or daughter's name with same lease deal?

How can I ensure I get to stay there a lifetime?

Has you girlfriend got kids or other family? She leaves it to them, or your son or daughter assuming they are Thai citizens.

thanks yorkman. She has a daughter, my soon to be step - daughter. A good kid but let's face it I don't know who she'll marry. We are planning on starting a family too.

[moldy]

A simple usufruct contract registered on the title deed for your lifetime will give you all the rights to stay there for the rest of your life. But you won't be the "owner", your girlfriend will be.

There are plenty of information about usufruct agreements on this website.

And again manyn thanks for this potentially very useful advice.

[Marvo]

Moldy,

I'm doing my research on similar matters at the moment. I'm looking at the lease + usufruct route and also looking at superficies to see what extra "lifetime" protection can be written it.

[BL4u]

Moldy,

I'm doing my research on similar matters at the moment. I'm looking at the lease + usufruct route and also looking at superficies to see what extra "lifetime" protection can be written it.

A lifetime usufruct is mainly beneficial for mixed couples to protect the foreign partner should the Thai partner pass away.

The drawback of a lifetime usufruct is that if you die the next day, the usufruct comes to an end and the property reverts back to the Thai owner. You could try to register the usufruct for 30 years or life, whichever is longer.

Okay, some lawyers say with usufruct you are allowed to rent out the property and if the usufruct ends not also the lease is terminated. With a usufruct you are allowed to rent/ lease out the property. In practice this means for periods up to 3 years as a long term lease must again be registered at the land office to be enforceable and therefore you need the owner of the property. You can't do this on your own. If you have in your own name first a usufruct and then a 30 year lease over the same immovable property you would imo override with the lease the usufruct. So you have to lease it out to a third person.

Theoretically the land aspect could involve a usufruct and the house could be owned freehold, however, it is more within the system of the law that you combine a superficies with a land lease. The right of superficies may be renewed and a renewal option can be included in the superficies, similar to a lease.

If you want your heirs to receive the property or plan to sell the property in a later stage a land lease + superficies is imo the correct structure - not usufruct.

The lease + superficies construction gives you the best chance of renewal or compensation after 30 years and it reduces Building and Land tax....

Edited January 28, 2008 by BL4u

[Pib]

A simple usufruct contract registered on the title deed for your lifetime will give you all the rights to stay there for the rest of your life. But you won't be the "owner", your girlfriend will be.

There are plenty of information about usufruct agreements on this website.

The lifetime usufruct is the route I went with my Thai wife of several decades for our house/land in Bangkok. Pretty straight forward contract between a couple which gets registered at the land office and gets your name on the chanote along with your Thai partner. Some land offices may be resistant to registering a usufruct because they don't know much about it or they feel it gives a farang too much control.

[Marvo]

@ BL4u

Solid words

Thx

[WilliamJarvis]

A simple usufruct contract registered on the title deed for your lifetime will give you all the rights to stay there for the rest of your life. But you won't be the "owner", your girlfriend will be.

There are plenty of information about usufruct agreements on this website.

Hi Seb

Hope you are well.

Just out of interest, the Usfruct system is based on the provisions of the CCC - unless I'm mistaken. So if there's a change in the law - like say that section of the CCC were to be repealed, would I still retain the right to live on the land for the remained of my life? Indeed, does one really need a change in the law itself, what would happen if there was a change in policy at the Land Dept.?

W

[Marvo]

if there's a change in the law - like say that section of the CCC were to be repealed, would I still retain the right to live on the land for the remained of my life?

Hi WJ,

So what we need to know is....

If the possible changes in law/policy that you ponder would be applied retrospectively and anyone with an usufruct be thrown off the land?

or

Would people with usufructs be grandfathered?

Would the same apply regarding Superfices?

As TiT, I would be keen to know myself.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Marvo

[Irene]

if there's a change in the law - like say that section of the CCC were to be repealed, would I still retain the right to live on the land for the remained of my life?

Hi WJ,

So what we need to know is....

If the possible changes in law/policy that you ponder would be applied retrospectively and anyone with an usufruct be thrown off the land?

or

Would people with usufructs be grandfathered?

Would the same apply regarding Superfices?

As TiT, I would be keen to know myself.

Changes of the law on the land rights are most unlikely. Furthermore, if there is a change, it is unlikely to be retroactive. Usufruct is used a lot for farm land and orchards. Any change would affect the current established system on the use of land.