Is It Just Me?

[chicowoodduck]

For the past six months I have been involved in the Tong Mun (gold engagement) and Sin Sod (riches stored away) marriage process with my Thai girlfriend who runs a couple of very successful businesses. I fully understand the need for the engagement ring and the wedding ring and have made those purchases with the usual "yes dear." It's all the "tack on" things that make me wonder? There is the pay for the wedding dress, the new clothes, my ring, the after wedding clothes, the invitations, the dinners for the whole family, the honeymoon, the million dollar Sin Sod request, etc., etc. It seems that for the most part, I'm just the side-line ATM machine. When I have stated that we should have some sort of budget and that we need to save some money for a "rainy day" situation, I'm met with "You have money coming in each month, that is enough, you won't be any happier with lots of money in the bank."

I know that the Sin Sod is suppose to be a gesture of good will, and that her family can use part of the money for cost of the ceremonies, but from the sounds of it, if any money remains it will be used for anything but the new couple. I've let my GF know that I'm concerned that if something should happen to her down the road, I'm left with whatever is left in my bank account after the wedding and the mercy of the Royal Thai government (I'm on an O-A Retirement Visa). If something happens to me, she is still left with her businesses, assets, and pretty much all that she started with in the first place. Hence the "Is It Just Me?

[TexasRanger]

For the past six months I have been involved in the Tong Mun (gold engagement) and Sin Sod (riches stored away) marriage process with my Thai girlfriend who runs a couple of very successful businesses. I fully understand the need for the engagement ring and the wedding ring and have made those purchases with the usual "yes dear." It's all the "tack on" things that make me wonder? There is the pay for the wedding dress, the new clothes, my ring, the after wedding clothes, the invitations, the dinners for the whole family, the honeymoon, the million dollar Sin Sod request, etc., etc. It seems that for the most part, I'm just the side-line ATM machine. When I have stated that we should have some sort of budget and that we need to save some money for a "rainy day" situation, I'm met with "You have money coming in each month, that is enough, you won't be any happier with lots of money in the bank."

I know that the Sin Sod is suppose to be a gesture of good will, and that her family can use part of the money for cost of the ceremonies, but from the sounds of it, if any money remains it will be used for anything but the new couple. I've let my GF know that I'm concerned that if something should happen to her down the road, I'm left with whatever is left in my bank account after the wedding and the mercy of the Royal Thai government (I'm on an O-A Retirement Visa). If something happens to me, she is still left with her businesses, assets, and pretty much all that she started with in the first place. Hence the "Is It Just Me?

If you don't pay then who is going to? I paid for all the extras too, I don't think it is unreasonable or abnormal for the man to pay for everything, but if she is taking liberties by asking too much just put her in the picture. After all is said and done it is up to you how much you pay. Good luck.

[Khutan]

Quite so, that is the tradition here. You can negotiate all of this, its best done in a polite manner so everyone comes out looking like they have won.

[bangkokrick]

For the past six months I have been involved in the Tong Mun (gold engagement) and Sin Sod (riches stored away) marriage process with my Thai girlfriend who runs a couple of very successful businesses. I fully understand the need for the engagement ring and the wedding ring and have made those purchases with the usual "yes dear." It's all the "tack on" things that make me wonder? There is the pay for the wedding dress, the new clothes, my ring, the after wedding clothes, the invitations, the dinners for the whole family, the honeymoon, the million dollar Sin Sod request, etc., etc. It seems that for the most part, I'm just the side-line ATM machine. When I have stated that we should have some sort of budget and that we need to save some money for a "rainy day" situation, I'm met with "You have money coming in each month, that is enough, you won't be any happier with lots of money in the bank."

I know that the Sin Sod is suppose to be a gesture of good will, and that her family can use part of the money for cost of the ceremonies, but from the sounds of it, if any money remains it will be used for anything but the new couple. I've let my GF know that I'm concerned that if something should happen to her down the road, I'm left with whatever is left in my bank account after the wedding and the mercy of the Royal Thai government (I'm on an O-A Retirement Visa). If something happens to me, she is still left with her businesses, assets, and pretty much all that she started with in the first place. Hence the "Is It Just Me?

If you don't pay then who is going to? I paid for all the extras too, I don't think it is unreasonable or abnormal for the man to pay for everything, but if she is taking liberties by asking too much just put her in the picture. After all is said and done it is up to you how much you pay. Good luck.

That is probably the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard even from a Thai. She obviously wants to marry you for the person that you are and not for your money.

I agree with Texasranger that you should pay for everything regarding the wedding arrangements, but ususally in my experience the 'Sinsod' is just for show and the money should be returned after the wedding.

I also agree with you on the 'rainy day' situation especially when you are retired, so make arrangements for that.

Ask yourself would you do the same for a women of your own country?

Cheers, Rick

[richardb]

I was recently in Roi Et with my girlfriend. House on stilts, fields, etc. We had a bit of a party. This is a nice party I said . Yes its our engagement party Whilst I am planning to marry my GF I kinda had my own timetable. GF then tells me that mama wants 800,000 Baht Mama seriously thought I was going to go to town and withdraw 800,000 from an ATM. Mama was wrong. Result ? Distraught GF at being a bad daughter and shamed in everyones eyes . GF calms down and speaks to papa , papa speakes to mama. Mama is now scared silly I am not going to marry her daughter and drops her 800,000 figure. The problem stems from the fact that a cousin over the road met a Dutch bloke on the internet. He came straight over handed the family 1 Million baht to get engaged . It all went tits up it seems the bloke did not fancy women or had a problem downstairs and cousin is still a virgin . Dutch boy refuses to take her calls and and the family are 1 million richer. My GF thought all fallangs did this whilst I explained that her cousins fallang was a moron. The cousin now spends all her time on Thailovelinks chatting to dutch blokes .

I want to make my GF happy and will give some presents and things in due course but " up to me "

Richard

Edited January 28, 2008 by richardb

[bangkokrick]

I was recently in Roi Et with my girlfriend. House on stilts, fields, etc. We had a bit of a party. This is a nice party I said . Yes its our engagement party Whilst I am planning to marry my GF I kinda had my own timetable. GF then tells me that mama wants 800,000 Baht Mama seriously thought I was going to go to town and withdraw 800,000 from an ATM. Mama was wrong. Result ? Distraught GF at being a bad daughter and shamed in everyones eyes . GF calms down and speaks to papa , papa speakes to mama. Mama is now scared silly I am not going to marry her daughter and drops her 800,000 figure. The problem stems from the fact that a cousin over the road met a Dutch bloke on the internet. He came straight over handed the family 1 Million baht to get engaged . It all went tits up it seems the bloke did not fancy women or had a problem downstairs and cousin is still a virgin . Dutch boy refuses to take her calls and and the family are 1 million richer. My GF thought all fallangs did this whilst I explained that her cousins fallang was a moron. The cousin now spends all her time on Thailovelinks chatting to dutch blokes .

I want to make my GF happy and will give some presents and things in due course but " up to me "

Richard

Richard i just fell off my chair laughing. Funniest thing i have heard in a long time.

Good Luck,

Rick

[chicowoodduck]

Quite so, that is the tradition here. You can negotiate all of this, its best done in a polite manner so everyone comes out looking like they have won.

Guess it's best just to "bite the bullet" and keep repeating, "I'm in Thailand, I'm in Thailand."

[torrenova]

When are some people goin g to open their eyes and see that they are not Thai men and thus 50% of the marriage partnership is not Thai. Then think about how things are done in your country and ask why your Thai girlfriend and family are not adhering to your local customs and values ?

Sinsot, if not returned, is just a rip off. Poor Issan farmers selling their prostitute daughters to some stupid farang for way more than a Thai would pay (like read zero for a hooker) is laughable. Respectful Thais ripping off the westerner with requests for mega gold and tons of cash just make us look stupid when we cave in and pay them for their daughter.

When two cultures meet there should be a mutual understanding, not just some over zealous requests for money. I was married to Japanese lady and our marriage was a blend of the two cultures, not 100% one or the other. The majority of Thais could learn something from that.

[mrt273nva]

Quite so, that is the tradition here. You can negotiate all of this, its best done in a polite manner so everyone comes out looking like they have won.

Guess it's best just to "bite the bullet" and keep repeating, "I'm in Thailand, I'm in Thailand."

yeah, so that when you are getting screwed you can attribute it to something else other than yourself. I feel that I am actually blessed in being poor concerning the sin sod issue. I keep saying, "honey, when we have money we will give your family a large amount".

I also joke with her saying that she is second hand and used goods and isn't worth as much. she explains that she is a fine wine and a classic and that her value only rises. i love her

[britmaveric]

If its on the up and up - the dosh is given back to you after the ceremony. Anything else is pure robbery.

[little_muppet]

lol obviously same sh** i have heard.. i feel sorry to those good husbands wannabe that got their wife and the family scam you. wake up wake up.!!

50 percent of THAT area are now full of mixed have u noticed that? and why is that? i let you think.............

LMP

[yorkman]

If its on the up and up - the dosh is given back to you after the ceremony. Anything else is pure robbery.

Quite right Brit. Never a truer word said for those who have not married in Thailand.

But those in Issan country (as am I) seem to ignore this point time and time again.

Sinsod is for show in modern Thailand, and definately do it, but it comes back. Your wife will need her gold, its just like a wedding ring (which incidentally is not a thai tradition). And anyway why would you not want to buy her a token of your love, and something that gives her respect in the community? And you will certainly cop for the wedding bill.

Anything else should set off alarm bells. Even a demand from the potential inlaws that you negotiate down.

For most "normal" thai families (and I would struggle to define that ) that is it. Simple

I thought back to my wedding, and adjusting for inflation, in a hotel, her dress, singers, moolum dancers, cakes, masters of ceremony, gifts to the guests and god knows what, 150 guests all fed and watered, I was out about 60,000B in todays money. Less than £1000.

Ohh and her gold, which she treasures, cost me a bit. But the smile on her face when she (rarely) wears it, is worth more to me than money.

Hells bells, its that twice a month sinsod subject again

Edited January 28, 2008 by yorkman

[DamianMavis]

I am young and poor so to me... you are all stark raving mad. Paying anything outside of a ring just seems bizarre, culture be damned. BUT, perhaps I will feel differently when Im alot older and less..... able to get a mate. Even then I will still be extremely sensitive to any feelings of being used or just seen as an atm machine and would probably walk at the slightest display.

Damian

Edited January 28, 2008 by DamianMavis

[A_Traveller]

Have to say I've known some in their 20's who entered into the sinsod arrangement, though as has been stated, if this is a real 'cultural thing' then the money is returned to the happy couple for their new life together, as it was in these youthful cases.

Regards

Edited January 28, 2008 by A_Traveller

[DamianMavis]

Have to say I've known some in their 20's who entered into the sinsod arrangement, though as has been stated, if this is a real 'cultural thing' then the money is returned to the happy couple for their new life together, as it was in these youthful cases.

Regards

Seriously? Yikes.

Damian

[A_Traveller]

Yes, I kid thee not, in your case naturally you would be required to pledge your iPhone.

Regards

Pull ... leg ... resist ... couldn't {rearrange into a meaningful sentence}

Edited January 28, 2008 by A_Traveller

[richardb]

Poor Issan farmers selling their prostitute daughters to some stupid farang for way more than a Thai would pay (like read zero for a hooker) is laughable.

Are you saying we should lease them

I am not engaged to an ex prostitute but if I were I really could not imagine the following chat .

Tillak I love you will you marry me. Yes darling I will . Darling will you buy mama me a bufallo.

Oi slag your takin a diabolical liberty you aint worth nothing tart. Or perhaps: darling I have taken the libery of conducting a survey amongst 100 random pattaya moto taxi drivers. The results are clear from the from the following presentation. Your assets have depreciated, your speculative bubble has burst. You are in short in a circumstance of karmic negative equity and of no financial worth.

What a Thai would pay is of minor importance.

I have no plans to start eating chicken feet, fish heads , bugs or beatles and no intention of carting trucks load of wonga to the putative in laws. BUT if its a case of symbolically showing I value her and generously giving a few Baht just cause it makes my GF happy so be it . ( she love mam and papa mak mak )

Richard

[TheDon]

Do what I did, I got married in Thailand on the 5/1/08, i got the father to pay for the whole thing with no sin sod, he actually refused it.

[xyborg]

<br />

If its on the up and up - the dosh is given back to you after the ceremony. Anything else is pure robbery. <img src="style_emoticons/default/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

<br /><br />Quite right Brit. Never a truer word said for those who have not married in Thailand.<br /><br />But those in Issan country (as am I) seem to ignore this point time and time again.<br /><br />Sinsod is for show in modern Thailand, and definately do it, but it comes back. Your wife will need her gold, its just like a wedding ring (which incidentally is not a thai tradition). And anyway why would you not want to buy her a token of your love, and something that gives her respect in the community? And you will certainly cop for the wedding bill.<br /><br />Anything else should set off alarm bells. Even a demand from the potential inlaws that you negotiate down.<br /><br />For most "normal" thai families (and I would struggle to define that <img src="style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> ) that is it. Simple<br /><br />I thought back to my wedding, and adjusting for inflation, in a hotel, her dress, singers, moolum dancers, cakes, masters of ceremony, gifts to the guests and god knows what, 150 guests all fed and watered, I was out about 60,000B in todays money. Less than £1000.<br /><br />Ohh and her gold, which she treasures, cost me a bit. But the smile on her face when she (rarely) wears it, is worth more to me than money.<br /><br />Hells bells, its that twice a month sinsod subject again <img src="style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Blimey my wife must realy love me then I paid no sin sot had no wedding rings had no party but did get a "real" wedding certificate. Wife happy as Larry her words "you so lovely husband" guffffffffffffawwwwwwwwwwwww my kinda gal !

[Globeliner]

Thai girlfriend who runs a couple of very successful businesses.

Good luck... Eh eh eh

[PadThaiGuy]

For the past six months I have been involved in the Tong Mun (gold engagement) and Sin Sod (riches stored away) marriage process with my Thai girlfriend who runs a couple of very successful businesses. I fully understand the need for the engagement ring and the wedding ring and have made those purchases with the usual "yes dear." It's all the "tack on" things that make me wonder? There is the pay for the wedding dress, the new clothes, my ring, the after wedding clothes, the invitations, the dinners for the whole family, the honeymoon, the million dollar Sin Sod request, etc., etc. It seems that for the most part, I'm just the side-line ATM machine. When I have stated that we should have some sort of budget and that we need to save some money for a "rainy day" situation, I'm met with "You have money coming in each month, that is enough, you won't be any happier with lots of money in the bank."

I know that the Sin Sod is suppose to be a gesture of good will, and that her family can use part of the money for cost of the ceremonies, but from the sounds of it, if any money remains it will be used for anything but the new couple. I've let my GF know that I'm concerned that if something should happen to her down the road, I'm left with whatever is left in my bank account after the wedding and the mercy of the Royal Thai government (I'm on an O-A Retirement Visa). If something happens to me, she is still left with her businesses, assets, and pretty much all that she started with in the first place. Hence the "Is It Just Me?

You want some respect?....Grow a pair of balls and tell them she gets a ring and some gold.

Maybe a few baht for some wedding expenses. The sin-sot gets returned.

There is no way you are going to be the family ATM.

Your the man of the family and make ALL the important decisions.

[jonniebkk]

I've let my GF know that I'm concerned that if something should happen to her down the road, I'm left with whatever is left in my bank account after the wedding and the mercy of the Royal Thai government (I'm on an O-A Retirement Visa). If something happens to me, she is still left with her businesses, assets, and pretty much all that she started with in the first place. Hence the "Is It Just Me?

Read the letter on this very subject in yesterday's Post (28 January). And then think about your situation.

[a2396]

I have a very low opinion of this so-called cultural tradition. It seem there are a lot of chumps on this forum who think it's OK to pay up. I think the whole concept is nothing but rip-off. Assuming you, ie the married couple are going to get it back is a shaky bet. Maybe you will and maybe you won't. If you are going to get it back, then why do you need to give it to them in the first place? Tell her you will pay for the cost of the wedding + rings & clothes. If they don't like it, get rid of her & tell them to put the daughter up for auction on eBay.

[Thai at Heart]

When are some people goin g to open their eyes and see that they are not Thai men and thus 50% of the marriage partnership is not Thai. Then think about how things are done in your country and ask why your Thai girlfriend and family are not adhering to your local customs and values ?

Sinsot, if not returned, is just a rip off. Poor Issan farmers selling their prostitute daughters to some stupid farang for way more than a Thai would pay (like read zero for a hooker) is laughable. Respectful Thais ripping off the westerner with requests for mega gold and tons of cash just make us look stupid when we cave in and pay them for their daughter.

When two cultures meet there should be a mutual understanding, not just some over zealous requests for money. I was married to Japanese lady and our marriage was a blend of the two cultures, not 100% one or the other. The majority of Thais could learn something from that.

You have to work out how much they really want, and how much they want on the platter for face. Face money can be found for a fee for the day and returned to the bank safe and sound for a fee.

[yorkman]

You want some respect?....Grow a pair of balls and tell them she gets a ring and some gold.

Maybe a few baht for some wedding expenses. The sin-sot gets returned.

There is no way you are going to be the family ATM.

Your the man of the family and make ALL the important decisions.

Err yes.....

Well if you want to be the big cheese in your new family.... go ahead.

Big "man", small m. Do not say you meant that.........

You feel the need for some respect? Well, respect starts at home eh? Self respect. Just look inside yourself before posting such opinions.

Crikey..

Edited January 29, 2008 by yorkman

[Heng]

Love these support group threads.

[stickman]

The cost of a wedding ceremony is usually covered by the cash given in envelopes by guests, so there is seldom a real or significant cost in the ceremony itself.

Costume hire in Thailand is cheap. Many wedding / photography studios do deals where they photograph you before the event and at the event as well as hire you the wedding gown and what not. Deals vary but for sure, you can get a very nice package for about 40,000 baht. You could pay much more - or a bit less.

Rings are much the same the world over. It is to be expected that you will buy a decent ring.

That leaves the sin sot. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of paying it, be upfront about it. Offer it as a goodwill gesture with the proviso that it will be returned immediately after the event. If they scoff at this, I would run.

Edited January 30, 2008 by stickman

[Heng]

You can also use instruments such as stock certs, bonds, or title deeds for property outside of Thailand. You demonstrate your life's accomplishments and at the same time don't risk your family fortune. Win win for all involved.

[thaihome]

The cost of a wedding ceremony is usually covered by the cash given in envelopes by guests, so there is seldom a real or significant cost in the ceremony itself.

Costume hire in Thailand is cheap. Many wedding / photography studios do deals where they photograph you before the event and at the event as well as hire you the wedding gown and what not. Deals vary but for sure, you can get a very nice package for about 40,000 baht. You could pay much more - or a bit less.

Rings are much the same the world over. It is to be expected that you will buy a decent ring.

That leaves the sin sot. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of paying it, be upfront about it. Offer it as a goodwill gesture with the proviso that it will be returned immediately after the event. If they scoff at this, I would run.

God I hate it when I have to agree with you.

Luckily it is so rare I can continue to think you are an ....

TH

[jonniebkk]

I have a very low opinion of this so-called cultural tradition...I think the whole concept is nothing but rip-off... If they don't like it, get rid of her & tell them to put the daughter up for auction on eBay.

I think you are a bit too harsh...the concept of one party or the other putting-up some amount of monetary consideration for their bride or groom is found in many cultures. The problem in Thailand is that many of the lower classes have found that their daughters have a high value on the marriage market when it comes to many foreigners and therefore abuse the tradition.

The amounts for sin sot amongst ordinary Thais are fairly small (at least to most Westerners [not speaking of hi-so pairings]) so are not abusive. The problem is when farangs get into a bidding war so to speak with the local lads or their fellow foreigners or just out of ignorance don't know what the proper amounts for a particular girl would be. Of course, many foreigners also are completely ignorant that it is a one-time only payment and that previously married women or non-virgins and their families are NOT entitled to any money.

As to E-Bay...shisssss....don't give them any ideas