Former Prime Minister Samak Still Facing Corruption Charges

[sriracha john]

Samak to face NCCC corruption inquiry

On the day Samak Sundaravej was royally endorsed as the 25th prime minister yesterday, the National Counter Corruption Commission decided to probe him for malfeasance while Bangkok governor.

NCCC member Klanarong Chantik said the agency resolved to form a committee led by Jaided Pornchaiya to investigate Samak for abusing his power as Bangkok governor to facilitate companies bidding on three garbage disposal projects worth 9.5 Billion Baht.

The NCCC's fact-finding panel had agreed with the complaint filed by the Auditor-General's Office that Samak circumvented the law.

Klanarong denied allegations that the NCCC was politicised for accusing Samak on the day he received the royal command as premier. "We carry out our duty in a straightforward manner and without harassment. It happened that the complaint reached the NCCC now," he said.

The audit report stated that Samak had violated the State Agencies' Bidding Act of 1999 because the three garbage projects required a budget of more than 1 Billion Baht each, but Samak intentionally rejected proposals worth more than 1 Billion Baht so that the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration could approve the projects.

Meanwhile Assets Examination Committee spokesman Sak Korsaengruang said he was not perturbed by the installation of Samak as head of government, saying the administration has no right to pressure the AEC.

"If the government does, that means it's doing it for the interest of the accused. The government should not discriminate against us," he said.

- The Nation

[steveromagnino]

In the Thai dailies he was quoted as saying THaksin will only let me look after inspecting vegetables while on a walk through at a local market.

I at least admire the man, inept and corrupt he may be, for being fairly amusing.

It was patently obvious from his BKK Governor days that he would be an inept PM, so let's hope the string pullers behind him can keep control of him.

[sriracha john]

Inquiry in Store for Samak on First Day as PM

Veteran politician Samak Sundaravej faced another investigation by the National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC) over his malfeasant allegations during his tenure as Bangkok governor.

According to NCCC member Klanarong Chantik, the commission concluded to establish a sub-panel chaired by Jaided Pornchaiya to investigate the newly endorsed premier over his abuse of power while serving as Bangkok governor in 2004 to influence biddings on three garbage disposal projects worth 9.5 billion baht for a favorable company.

The Auditor-General’s Office earlier filed a complaint with the NCCC that Samak had violated the law while holding office.

The Office reported that the former Bangkok governor had violated the State Agencies’ Bidding Act of 1999 since the three garbage projects together required a budget worth over 1 billion baht each.

Reportedly, Samak circumvented the law by rejecting proposals worth over 1 billion baht to allow the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, the agency under his command to approve the projects.

Meanwhile, Klanarong dismissed a speculation that his agency had accused the new premier on the day of his royal endorsement to undermine Samak’s new role in politics.

Klanarong said his agency has no attempt to harass Samak and had been working with transparency, adding that the complaint coincidently reached the NCCC on the same day Samak received royal endorsement.

In a separate development, Sak Korsaengruang, spokesman of the Assets Examination Committee yesterday said he has no opposition against Samak’s new role as Prime Minister, adding that the government has no right to pressure his agency and should not discriminate against the AEC.

Sak said if the government happens to pressure the AEC on the case, it would show that the new administration had acted in the interest of its new leader.

- Thailand Outlook

[Jai Dee]

NCCC to pursue PM Samak in Bangkok waste case

The Spokesman for the National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC), Mr. Klanarong Chantik (กล้านรงค์ จันทิก), affirms that the establishment of a special committee concerning newly appointed Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej’s involvement in a waste disposal facility scandal will continue unimpeded by Mr. Samak’s new title.

The scandal involves over nine billion baht and arose from when Mr. Samak was serving as the Bangkok Governor. Mr. Klanarong says the continued pursuit of the case is not a signifier of bias or disrespect to Mr. Samak but it is the NCCC's duty. He says the Office of the National Police and Assets Examination Committee (AEC) have submitted the case to the NCCC, and his commission is obligated to investigate it.

The NCCC Spokesman says a special committee will be established to discuss the matter and if no grounds for further investigation are found, the case will be dismissed.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 31 January 2008

[sriracha john]

This thread was created to properly track an ongoing topic. It is pulled from a thread that was started on a separate topic which has now become outdated.

The OP covers several posts to provide historical background and chronological order.

Former Interior Minister Bhokin Bhalakula

Former Deputy Interior Minister Pracha Maleenont

Former Bangkok Governor Samak Sundaravej

FIRE-ENGINE SCAM

Samak, 4 others face AEC probe

Apirak off the hook because Bt6.7-billion deal signed before he became governor

Former Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej, ex-interior minister Bhokin Bhalakula and his deputy Pracha Maleenont are among five people to be investigated by the Assets Examination Committee for alleged involvement in the fire-engine corruption scandal, a source from the AEC said yesterday.

However, Apirak Kosayodhin, Samak's successor and the current Bangkok governor, who has often been linked to the case, will escape investigation because the purchase was made before he took up the post, the source said.

The AEC's chairman Nam Yimyaem yesterday said its fact-finding team had enough grounds to open a full investigation of five people, including three politicians, for their parts in the allegedly overpriced Bt6.7-billion deal. He did not name them. Nam said he had received a report from the fact-finding team and would put it to the AEC's full panel on Monday to decide whether a subcommittee should be set up to investigate the accused.

The AEC source said the five were former interior minister Bhokin Bhalakula, his deputy Pracha Maleenont and Pracha's assistant Somsak Kun-ngern, former Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej and the former Bangkok Fire and Rescue Department chief Atilak Tanchukiat.

Nam said the charges were malfeasance or corruption in violation of Article 157 of the Criminal Code, causing damage of over Bt6 billion to the government.

Nam said the sub-committee could summon more suspects if more were involved.

Last year the Department of Special Investigation said there were seven, the present five plus Apirak and then-commerce minister Wattana Muangsuk.

Bhokin signed an agreement of understanding for the purchase at a government-to-government level. Pracha was responsible for discussing details with Austrian ambassador Herbert Traxl, and his assistant Somsak prepared the barter-trade plan for the deal.

The Foreign Trade Department sealed the barter agreement with Steyr Daimler Puch, the Austrian supplier of fireboats, fire engines and fire-fighting equipment to the Bangkok Fire and Rescue Department while Wattana was commerce minister.

The source yesterday said that Apirak, who had a letter of credit for the deal opened, was not on the AEC list for investigation because he had taken up his post after Samak signed the contract with Steyr Daimler Puch, which was conditional on the issuance of a letter of credit for payment.

The Nation

UPDATE

Politicians 'took 500 million baht bribes for fire trucks deal'

Some politicians involved in the overpriced purchase of fire-fighting equipment for Bangkok flew to Singapore to collect Bt500 million in bribes, a member of the Interior Ministry panel investigating the scandal said yesterday.

"We are gathering evidence against the corrupt officials," the official said on condition of anonymity. He did not say how many politicians were bribed or when it happened.

The committee will tomorrow wrap up its probe into the Bt6.68-billion deal for fire trucks, fireboats and other equipment for the Bangkok Fire and Rescue Department. Its results will be forwarded to Interior Minister Aree Wongsearaya before being released to the public in the next fortnight.

"Like other panels, we found the deal to be overpriced. However, on some points our results differ from what the Assets Examination Committee [AEC] found," the official said.

Earlier this year, the AEC concluded the deal was overpriced to the tune of Bt1.9 billion. It accused former interior minister Bhokin Bhalakula, his then-deputy Pracha Maleenont and then-assistant secretary Somsak Khun-ngern of corruption for their roles in the deal with an Austrian company.

The AEC also said there was evidence against former Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej and the head of the fire department Police Maj-General Atilak Tanchukiat.

It found no evidence against incumbent governor Apirak Kosayodhin.

The member of the Interior Ministry's panel investigating the scandal said, "We have not ignored evidence against persons the AEC has not named as suspects."

Officials who had failed to co-operate in the probe will be named, the panel member said. Former Bangkok city clerk Khunying Nathanon Thavisin has already been identified as uncooperative.

"Although they are not corrupt they avoided giving information that could be useful," the official said.

Members of the police must take some responsibility for designing the specifications of the deal while Krung Thai Bank will face action for opening the letter of credit, he added.

The eight-person panel probing the scandal is chaired by Assoc Professor Veerapong Boonyopas, head of the business crime and money-laundering centre at Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Law.

The deal can be traced back to 2004 when Bhokin, as interior minister, signed an agreement of understanding with the Austrian ambassador to purchase fire trucks, fireboats and other fire-fighting equipment.

Pracha and Somsak helped draft the agreement. Samak signed it just before his term ended.

- The Nation

UPDATE

People Power Party Leader to Give Testimony on Fire Truck Purchase Next Week

The Assets Examination Committee summoned the leader of the People Power Party to hear his charge of being involved in the controversial purchase of Bangkok's fire equipment on November 21.

On Tuesday the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) reached an agreement to issue summons for five individuals, accused of involvement in the controversial procurement of fire trucks and boats for the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), to hear their charges for causing 2 billion baht worth of damages to the state and for violating the Anti-Bidding Scam Act

The five accused include the former Bangkok Governor and current People Power Party Leader Samak Sundaravej, former Interior Minister Pokin Pollakul, former Deputy Interior Minister Pracha Maleenont, his personal secretary Somsak Khun-ngern, and former Director of the BMA's Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department, Police Lieutenant Colonel Athiluk Tanchukiet.

- Thailand Outlook

UPDATE

Fire engine scam group under investigation

A fact-finding team investigating the controversial purchase of fire engines and boats by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has called on all five suspects in the case to hear malfeasance charges against them on Wednesday. They include former Bangkok Governor and now Leader of the People Power Party (PPP) Samak Sundaravej, former Interior Minister Pokin Polakul, former Deputy Interior Minister Pracha Maleenont, his assistant Somsak Kun-ngern and former Bangkok Fire and Rescue Department chief Atilak Tanchukiat. According to the fact-finding team, only a representative of Pracha arrived this morning to inform officials that a lawyer will hear charges in Pracha’s place later today. The five officials are under investigation for their involvement in the 6.8 Billion Baht deal to purchase the trucks and boats from Steyr Daimler Puch, the Austrian manufacturer of the fire engines and fireboats. The Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) insisted it had enough evidence to prove that the trucks and fireboats were partially made in Thailand, which meant that the deal had been overpriced.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=123789

===============================================================================

Samak, Bhokin acknowledge charges over fire-truck deal

Former Bangkok Governor Samak Sundaravej and former Interior Minister Bhokin Bhalakula yesterday acknowledged criminal charges filed against them for their roles in the 6.6 Billion Baht deal to buy fire-fighting equipment for the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration BMA.

Samak, now Leader of People Power Party, assigned lawyer Phichit Chuenban to hear the charges of malfeasance and involvement in unlawful bidding at the Office of the Auditor General (OAG).

Phichit said Samak would give a written response to the charges at a December 4 hearing. Phichit said Samak requested a clear statement from the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) stating exactly the charges filed against him, and for a copy of the entire AEC investigation report into the scandal.

Bhokin acknowledged the same charges in person at the OAG headquarters and said he had nothing personally to do with the procurement deal, as the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) had handled the contract and negotiations.

The former Thai Rak Thai party-list MP said his only role in the deal was his ex-officio supervision over the BMA. He had never seen the detailed contracts between the BMA and Austrian manufacturer, Steyr Daimler Puch, he said.

"The only papers I signed was a three-page MOU during a 30-minute session with the Bangkok Governor and the Austrian Ambassador [Herbert Traxl in 2004], both of whom I had never met earlier," he added.

Bhokin said he would counter the charges before the AEC himself on December 4.

- The Nation

===============================================================================

Meanwhile, Shinawatra family lawyer Pichit Chuenban yesterday appeared at the ASC office on behalf of People Power Party Leader and former Bangkok Governor Samak Sundaravej to hear charges over Samak's alleged involvement in irregularities concerning the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's 6.7 Billion-baht fire truck and boat deal with an Austrian firm. The case is being investigated by the ASC sub-committee, chaired by Mr Nam. Pichit yesterday asked the sub-committee to clarify Samak's alleged mistakes and ask for a permit to photocopy all the documentary evidence against Samak so that he could prepare for testimony on Dec 4. Samak is among five senior administrators implicated by the ASC sub-panel.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/22Nov2007_news08.php

================

The ties between Thaksin and the People Power Party draw even closer...

UPDATE... the nearly Seven Billion Baht fire truck scandal case is moving ahead

AEC Goes Ahead with Corruption Case against New PM

The Assets Examination Committee says it will forge ahead with the investigation into various corruption cases against the newly appointed Prime Minister of Thailand. He says Samak’s new position will not affect the panel’s investigation.

Assets Examination Commissioner Banjerd Singkaneti says the AEC will forge ahead with the cases against Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. Banjerd is a member of the sub-committee set up by the AEC to investigate Samak’s involvement in a controversial fire trucks procurement scandal.

Banjerd says the investigation is still still active despite Samak being appointed as Thailand’s new prime minister on Tuesday.

Samak is accused of being involved in a number of corruption charges for signing two contracts while he was the governor of Bangkok. The first deal is a controversial garbage contract in 2003 and the other is the purchase of fire trucks and fire boats in 2004.

The AEC committee says it's not afraid the committee may be disbanded by the new government.

During his election campaign, Samak Sundaravej has made it public he plans to dismantle the AEC. Samak claims the AEC has too much power and that its jurisdiction overlaps with some of the existing independent anti-corruption bodies.

The AEC is in the process of interviewing 20 witnesses whom Samak had presented to the committee. However, Banjerd says he cannot say when the AEC will be able to forward the case to the Attorney-General's Office. How soon the committee can proceed with the case will depend on the number of witnesses involved.

Meanwhile Udom Fuengfung, another AEC member investigating Samak’s case, says Samak’s status as the new prime minister of Thailand will not affect the AEC’s work. Udom says the AEC is doing everything according to the law. He does not believe the new government will be able to interfere with the AEC’s investigation.

- Thailand Outlook

[sriracha john]

NCCC to probe Samak on waste contracts

National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC) vowed to set up a probe panel to investigate PM Samak Sundaravej on alleged corruption charges in relation to garbage disposal contracts when he was Bangkok governor in 2003. NCCC member Klanarong Chantik said setting up the probe committee is a normal procedure, and it does not mean that Samak is guilty. He added that the case is done according to law, as it is forwarded to the NCCC by Office of the Auditor General through the Royal Thai Police. He also said the NCCC is not pressured to probe the case concerning the new prime minister, adding that the

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=125585

[sriracha john]

Samak: NCCC Probe to Have No Effect on Premiership

The newly-appointed Prime Minister is unfazed with the continued probe into his alleged involvement in garbage-incineration corruption.

Newly-endorsed Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said that he is not worried about the National Counter Corruption Commission, or NCCC’s continued investigation, which followed a complaint by the Office of the Attorney-General.

The OAG has previously filed with the corruption watchdog a complaint that accused Samak of circumventing laws to manage the nine billion baht garbage incineration projects.

The anti-graft panel yesterday appointed a new panel to carry on the probe, the move which Samak labeled as “political harassment and discrimination.”

He blamed the probe on an “invisible hand.”

When asked if he is concerned with the probe’s impact on his premiership, Samak said “no problem.”

The new Premier already named the NCCC investigation as biased, while the anti-graft body spokesman Klanarong Chantik denied Samak's allegation that the agency discriminated against him.

- Thailand Outlook

[BigSnake]

See how it play out in court I guess. Join his pal(boss) Thaskin. We will start to see soe answers soon I HOPE.

[TAWP]

I do wish they would enforce capital punishment for large scale corruptions [against the people], like they have successfully been doing in China lately.

The only way to get rid of the snakes.

[Plus]

Thailand doesn't have enough executioners, I think.

[jumnien]

I do wish they would enforce capital punishment for large scale corruptions [against the people], like they have successfully been doing in China lately.

The only way to get rid of the snakes.

Well, we all wish the PPP would prosecute those who took part in the military coup, but it is unlikely to happen. Good idea though!

[Plus]

Would you recommend hanging "right wing juntaphiles", too?

I think Thailand doesn't have enough electricity poles.

[Tony Clifton]

I do wish they would enforce capital punishment for large scale corruptions [against the people], like they have successfully been doing in China lately.

The only way to get rid of the snakes.

Would the organs be sold on the black market as they do in China following the executions of inmates?

[TAWP]

I do wish they would enforce capital punishment for large scale corruptions [against the people], like they have successfully been doing in China lately.

The only way to get rid of the snakes.

Well, we all wish the PPP would prosecute those who took part in the military coup, but it is unlikely to happen. Good idea though!

I think you have seriously misunderstood something about the legal system here if you think PPP would be prosecuting anyone...

And my remark was against ALL POLITICIANS involved in the corruption practices.

Unlike your fan-dome of Mr Thief.

[steveromagnino]

I do wish they would enforce capital punishment for large scale corruptions [against the people], like they have successfully been doing in China lately.

The only way to get rid of the snakes.

Well, we all wish the PPP would prosecute those who took part in the military coup, but it is unlikely to happen. Good idea though!

what is this 'we' white man?

[sriracha john]

Court proceeds with Samak-Thirapat lawsuit

The Criminal Court has asked the defendant and prosecutor to attend a hearing on a defamation lawsuit filed by PM Samak Sundaravej against former Minister to the PM’s Office Thirapat Serirangsan. Samak lodged the suit after Mr Thirapat said during an interview which was later included in an article printed in the Thai Rath daily newspaper, that Samak “should clear his name of corruption charges in the fire engine scandal before taking on the position as Leader of the People Power Party." Samak insisted the interview tarnished his reputation as an honest politician and resulted in members of the public to believe that he had been involved in corruption and that the court had already found him guilty of the crime. Samak is calling for 150 million

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=125756

[rixalex]

I do wish they would enforce capital punishment for large scale corruptions [against the people], like they have successfully been doing in China lately.

The only way to get rid of the snakes.

Well, we all wish the PPP would prosecute those who took part in the military coup, but it is unlikely to happen. Good idea though!

Both Thaksin and the leaders of the coup have something in common. They both perverted democracy. Thaksin more subtly (well just slightly) by extreme and excessive meddling in just about everything. The military did so by simply snatching power. So both are wrong.

However, whereas Thaksin was doing so for the benefit of his family and friends, the military did so for the sake of King and country, and saved us all from yet another dark and tragic chapter in Thailand's history.

I thank them for doing so.

[nothingleftbutfaith]

.

the military did so for the sake of King and country...

You really think so ?

What about TOT's procurement of military gears ?

What about the swedish jet fighter deal ?

What about the pay rises for the CNS...

[A_Traveller]

The Swedish aircraft negotiations have been going on for some years, I recall there were discussions back in 2004.

Regards

Edited February 6, 2008 by A_Traveller

[rixalex]

.

the military did so for the sake of King and country...

You really think so ?

What about TOT's procurement of military gears ?

What about the swedish jet fighter deal ?

What about the pay rises for the CNS...

The CNS never existed before the coup. So how could that have been their motivation? And are you really saying that someone goes to all the trouble of overthrowing a country just for a few thousand baht? That's all we are talking right? Certainly not millions.

And please show directly how the military have personally and individually benefitted from planes and gears deals.

[Plus]

I think "gears" are fiber optic cables to monitor Southern situation via CCTV in real time. It wasn't in thousands, about 800mil, I think, and it's possible they wanted to scheme some 10% of the project value.

Not worth staging the coup.

I mentioned it somewhere already - all allegations of junta's corruption are simply not worth the trouble of rolling out the tanks and taking over the government. Things like getting jobs on boards of state enterprises or overspending on business trips.

[younghusband]

I mentioned it somewhere already - all allegations of junta's corruption are simply not worth the trouble of rolling out the tanks and taking over the government. Things like getting jobs on boards of state enterprises or overspending on business trips.

I tend to agree.The Thai army is and has been up to its neck in corruption for decades.It doesn't need a coup to enable this (just compliant governments).

Its motive for the coup was quite different of course - to protect the feudal/corporate/military set of vested interests which were being challenged.

[Plus]

Allegedly.

It's a dead horse, but I don't recall seeing any evidence, any particular case to demonstrate this theory. It's an emperor without clothes.

Strangely, but when "juntophiles" mention Thaksin's challenge to the major insitution they are ridiculed and called paranoid. Which interests did Thaksin challenge exactly? Corporate? He actually represented them.

Thailand was facing a major crisis, military stepped in to diffuse it, and it worked. They did everything they promised and returned the country to civilian rule as soon as possible. Their influence on current situation is marginal at best.

Did they feel personally involved? Yes, but not before the public turned against Thaksin and he refused to listen. That's when the first plans for the coup were hatched - when Thaksin and the people first set on the collusion course.

Intensive search for hidden motives hasn't produced and results yet, and I doubt it ever will.

[younghusband]

Allegedly.

It's a dead horse, but I don't recall seeing any evidence, any particular case to demonstrate this theory. It's an emperor without clothes.

Strangely, but when "juntophiles" mention Thaksin's challenge to the major insitution they are ridiculed and called paranoid. Which interests did Thaksin challenge exactly? Corporate? He actually represented them.

Thailand was facing a major crisis, military stepped in to diffuse it, and it worked. They did everything they promised and returned the country to civilian rule as soon as possible. Their influence on current situation is marginal at best.

Did they feel personally involved? Yes, but not before the public turned against Thaksin and he refused to listen. That's when the first plans for the coup were hatched - when Thaksin and the people first set on the collusion course.

Intensive search for hidden motives hasn't produced and results yet, and I doubt it ever will.

Couple of points.

1.Yes in the context you mention ridicule and paranoia are the appropriate words. You have been around long enough to know the explosive intent of throwing out this type of accusation.Second rate politicians do it all the time to muddy the waters in the absence of sound arguments.Didn't work this time though as the country saw through the Premocracy/junta's dishonesty.

2.Sorry you are right to pick me up on the use of "corporate".It's shorthand which I assumed was understood for momopolistic inward looking corporate interests that resist globalisation, cater to established vested interests and in essence prefer a bigger slice of a smaller pie.To be fair it also includes corporate interests (in some cases with justification) outraged by Thaksin's spreading empire and/or angry at his failure to be inclusive

[Plus]

The question is still not answered - who exactly did Thaksin threaten? What interests exactly?

Are these interests really separate from the ones you talk about when you ridicule "juntaphiles"? Do they even exist?

Without these answers your theory doesn't have any legs to stand on.

My reasons for the coup are a lot simpler - there was public discontent bordering on disorder, and for a good reason, members of the military stepped in to rectify the situation. All other reasons are secondary, icings on the cake, side effects.

[younghusband]

The question is still not answered - who exactly did Thaksin threaten? What interests exactly?

Are these interests really separate from the ones you talk about when you ridicule "juntaphiles"? Do they even exist?

Without these answers your theory doesn't have any legs to stand on.

My reasons for the coup are a lot simpler - there was public discontent bordering on disorder, and for a good reason, members of the military stepped in to rectify the situation. All other reasons are secondary, icings on the cake, side effects.

It's hard to believe we are still discussing the question of whose interests Thaksin threatened.You may not agree with me but what you can't say is that I and others haven't argued the case over the last eighteen months.Anyway if it is all so obscure for you, I don't quite see how you can be so apparently familiar with my "theory".So please don't be so disingenuous.

I don't think I was ridiculing the juntophiles in my last post, simply dealing with the specific point you made about the "major institution".

I don't want to sound priggish about this but let me just say that anyone who has in depth understanding of historical processes would know that there are always multiple interpretations.Gradually over time a consensus can emerge but there are still huge differences of interpretation about say the cultural revolution in China, the English civil war in the seventeenth century or the Russian revolution.So it will be with this coup and although you have your "simple reasons",I'm afraid it's rather more complex.Certainly broad conclusions can emerge over time and these can be argued about.Isn't that the purpose of this forum? I happen to believe my views are better founded in fact and understanding, but of course it's subjective and I accept we are probably too close to the event to be dogmatic about very much.However I must say that your apparent confusion between two quite different concepts, namely "reasons" and "side effects" doesn't actually inspire much confidence in your approach or methodology.

Edited February 7, 2008 by younghusband

[chownah]

My reasons for the coup are a lot simpler - there was public discontent bordering on disorder, and for a good reason, members of the military stepped in to rectify the situation. All other reasons are secondary, icings on the cake, side effects.

Yes, there was discontent....some politically oriented organisations started demonstrations whose purpose was to dirsupt society...so...the military leaders sided with those who were disrupting social order, kicked out the elected gov't, instututed a military dictatorship, nullilfied the consitution etc. and so on and so forth.

So...in a nutshell....the reason for the military coup was to support those minority of people who were creating social disturbance and to end the gov't which was elected by the majority of the people.

Chownah

[Plus]

It's hard to believe we are still discussing the question of whose interests Thaksin threatened.You may not agree with me but what you can't say is that I and others haven't argued the case over the last eighteen months.Anyway if it is all so obscure for you, I don't quite see how you can be so apparently familiar with my "theory".So please don't be so disingenuous.

Of course I know what you argued for eighteen months, my point is that it wasn't really an argument, you accepted it as self -evident truth. You still can't clearly define who exactly was threatened by what. There could be several answers, none of them satisfactory.

I particularly don't accept "masses vs establishment" explanation given by leftists.

Challenge to the monarchy is ridiculous and paranoid in your own opinion.

Challenge to Prem's "network" is a possibility, if you can show how exactly they were threatened and how exactly they benefitted from the coup, and why is their move coincided with mass uprising agasint Thaksin, and wether it could indeed be a primary motive for staging the coup.

I happen to believe my views are better founded in fact and understanding, but of course it's subjective and I accept we are probably too close to the event to be dogmatic about very much.However I must say that your apparent confusion between two quite different concepts, namely "reasons" and "side effects" doesn't actually inspire much confidence in your approach or methodology.

Sorry, I'm not writing an academic paper. In short, the coup was provoked by confrontation between Thaksin and his detractors, it was a reaction to the situation, not a long term plan to take over the country. It's possible that some other interest groups benefitted from the coup as well, but they were never in a position to stage it just for themselves.

I tend to believe that the generals planned the coup in secrecy, that rules out wide participation by any vested interests, one or two people at most.

Example of side-effects - bureaucracy was squeezed by TRT and some felt revenge was due and they have relatively more power now. Hard core royalists are probably happy that any thoughts of Thaksin turning the country into presential republic haev been completely quashed and won't resurface again any time soon.

[Tony Clifton]

Give it two or three months with this new government and you'll clearly remember or see why there was a coup.

[sriracha john]

AEC clarifies regulations, may prompt PM to step down

Assets Examination Committee (AEC) member Panjerd Singkanaeti has stepped out to clarify debate on whether or not the AEC’s move to file a case with the Supreme Court against people involved in the 2-3 digit lottery scandal would affect currently serving Cabinet ministers. Mr. Panjerd stated that the committee has submitted the names of 3 Cabinet members to Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej for consideration of removal from duty as they have been cited in the case.

The AEC member said that article 55 of the Constitution pertaining to acts of corruption against the nation states that any individual holding office that is found to have substantial ties to an ongoing case must relinquish their post until otherwise mandated by the Senate or the Supreme Court.

Mr. Panjerd further added that the article extends to all cases of the same nature and reminded that Samak is also currently being cited in the case of fire truck purchases in Bangkok.

He said that in the coming days the case will move forward and may also prompt the Prime Minister to revoke his position.

- ThaiNews