Colour Working Space

[The Vulcan]

I'm way over my head here on this subject but wonder what you guys know or can offer on the subject of colour working space.

I use a Canon 5D and set an "in camera" working space of sRGB.

My development software is Adobe Lightroom for which recommends the use of ProPhotoRGB to display all the available colours.

Conversely, when uploading to TV or indeed the 'net, we need to convert to RGB. The latter appears to be inferior and certainly my uploaded images appear lacking in colour and depth to that which I see through Lightroom.

Am I missing something?

[Nordlys]

I also use EOS 5D and set it at sRGB (default setting Adobe RGB).

Last year I travelled to Kyoto where it's famous for autumn leaves during its season.

I've downloaded and installed "autumn hue" picture style into my 5D and set the color space from Adobe RGB to sRGB before embarking on the trip as I was told red on autumn leaves (a color that's easy to saturate) is less likely to saturate with sRGB than Adobe RGB.

[yorkman]

There is a good explanation of Adobe RGB vs sRGB here:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials...dobeRGB1998.htm

and an explanation of the possible advantages of using ProPhotoRGB here

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorial...photo-rgb.shtml

To use ProPhotoRGB you will need to capture as a RAW.

Whichever way you go, by setting your camera to sRGB you are throwing away information that you cannot recover.

[astral]

An interesting question and thanks to Yorkman for those links.

I have just reset my Canon 40D to AdobeRGB.

[The Vulcan]

Yes me too, thank you Yorkman.

[Nordlys]

I'm confused.

Is the default setting on 5D sRGB or Adobe RGB?

[The Vulcan]

The 5D defaults to sRGB in full auto mode, so I guess this is their default setting.

The manual also recommends sRGB on the assumption the user does not know about image processing etc.

Then they go on to say that the image will look very subdued with sRGB so post processing will be neccessary.

Oh, and the ICC profile will not be appended when using RGB.

Simple eh!

[yorkman]

Simple eh!

It's horribly complicated! Too much for my old brain.

This is my understanding, and what I do, for right or wrong.

The problem is that you really need to pre-decide what your output is going to be, print (on a good printer), on screen display for your own delectation, or you want to put on the web. Well you cant can you?, at least this happy snapper cant.

I use RAW and let the camera do absolutely nothing, its software is far less powerful than what you can do on a computer. I use a RAW converter to save them as TIFF. That is my backup and is easily viewed in almost any application, even though the colours may look a bit screwed.

If I find something (this is really rare!) that is worth printing or anything else, I can then use the TIFF, or the original RAW, reprocess it and to take it to the colourspace that is most appropriate.

That sounds more complicated than it is. Truly

There are probably better ways, so the usual disclaimer. Ohh and I use Nikon but same same I think.

[kash]

Simple eh!

It's horribly complicated! Too much for my old brain.

This is my understanding, and what I do, for right or wrong.

The problem is that you really need to pre-decide what your output is going to be, print (on a good printer), on screen display for your own delectation, or you want to put on the web. Well you cant can you?, at least this happy snapper cant.

I use RAW and let the camera do absolutely nothing, its software is far less powerful than what you can do on a computer. I use a RAW converter to save them as TIFF. That is my backup and is easily viewed in almost any application, even though the colours may look a bit screwed.

If I find something (this is really rare!) that is worth printing or anything else, I can then use the TIFF, or the original RAW, reprocess it and to take it to the colourspace that is most appropriate.

That sounds more complicated than it is. Truly

There are probably better ways, so the usual disclaimer. Ohh and I use Nikon but same same I think.

In a more simple language :-)

- Color profile is just for shooting in JPEG, Adobe RGB has the widest range out of the two available.

- Shooting in RAW does not use a color profile, hence RAW :-)

[yorkman]

In a more simple language :-)

- Color profile is just for shooting in JPEG, Adobe RGB has the widest range out of the two available.

- Shooting in RAW does not use a color profile, hence RAW :-)

Ahhh but it includes an ICC profile... great

[The Vulcan]

In a more simple language :-)

- Color profile is just for shooting in JPEG, Adobe RGB has the widest range out of the two available.

- Shooting in RAW does not use a color profile, hence RAW :-)

Kash

Are you saying that it's academic when shooting in RAW (which I always do) as to what colour space you elect for the "in camera" settings?

This issue is taxing my brain!

[kash]

Are you saying that it's academic when shooting in RAW (which I always do) as to what colour space you elect for the "in camera" settings?

Yes, if you are only shooting in RAW you don't have to think about this at all, as the color profile will be applied on the image in your RAW converter i.e. Lightroom that uses ProPhotoRGB e.g.

[yorkman]

Exactly Vulcan,

RAW is as out of the camera, no compression or modification. Just as the sensor sees it. At least this is theory, but both Nikon and Canon do a bit of fiddling so it seems better, the buggars

It is academic what colour space you elect for in camera if you are saving as RAW. You select your format as you convert from RAW.

[The Vulcan]

That has been an interesting thread.

Seems in conclusion that Adobe RGB is the preferred colour space for those shooting jpeg, despite Canons guidance to using sRGB.

Thanks to all for the input.

[The Vulcan]

OK, just to clarify (confuse) matters take a look at these threads.

Seems to answer "Nordlys" concern that his images looked indifferent when uploaded

http://diglloyd.com/bike/free/WebBrowserCo...-and-color.html

http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_p...Gprofiles.html#

http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page2/

What do we gleen from this?

Seems we need to work in RGB but upload in sRGB, and include its embedded ICC profile.

Then we must pray that the viewers browser reads and interprets all profiles.

On top of that we also need to hope that the viewers screens are calibrated accurately!

WOW!

[astral]

but both Nikon and Canon do a bit of fiddling so it seems better, the buggars

On the Canon you can exercise some control yourself, by the Custom Settings

on the setup menu.

[SamsSauce1949]

If my memory serves me correctly, AdobeRGB predates digital imaging and was originally developed as a colour-space 'Standard' for printers, artwork designers etc. If your images are going to be used commercially, I would guess that converting them to the AdobeRGB colour-space may reap benefits because commercial printers by default use this standard.

However, as has already been pointed out, Lightroom, specifically reccomends that you use sRGB and I think you will find, states that the use of AdobeRGB, will not only deliver inferior results when outputted to even high quality InkJet printers. The fact that Adobe, actually states that Lightroom is configured for the sRGB colour-space!

[The Vulcan]

If my memory serves me correctly, AdobeRGB predates digital imaging and was originally developed as a colour-space 'Standard' for printers, artwork designers etc. If your images are going to be used commercially, I would guess that converting them to the AdobeRGB colour-space may reap benefits because commercial printers by default use this standard.

However, as has already been pointed out, Lightroom, specifically reccomends that you use sRGB and I think you will find, states that the use of AdobeRGB, will not only deliver inferior results when outputted to even high quality InkJet printers. The fact that Adobe, actually states that Lightroom is configured for the sRGB colour-space!

As I read, Lightroom does NOT recommend sRGB anywhere!

Lightroom recommends ProPhoto RGB as the preferred working space to preserve best colour details. You then elect the ICC profile depending on your output intent.

sRGB was developed jointly by HP and MS as a "compromise" standard for web viewing, and indeed this is the recommended profile for uploading to the 'net.

Adobe RGB/CMYK is the accepted output for inkjet/commercial printing purposes.