My Um, Detailed Chiangmai Budget

[Rasseru]

Burger flipper?

[Rasseru]

No, no, I've got it: moderator!

[PeaceBlondie]

IRS Tax Auditor?

[DavidS]

Policeman?

[Ricardo]

Traffic-Warden , surely ?

[el jefe]

I've been working on a retirement spending buudget plan for some time (and being conservative I never seem to be able to convince myself I have enough!). A few items I have in my busget, not explicitly mentioned by the original poster are:

- intenet access (about 1,500 Bhat/month if you want it at home)

- communications (phone bills and postage - assuming you might maintain some contact overseas)

- insurance on house contents, and maybe travel insurance.

- dentist (assuming not covered under health). Insurance policies usually do not cover dental work

- gifts to friends and families (in thailand, and/or back home, parents birdthdays, wedding aniversaries etc).

- subscriptions to clubs and societies, and also maintenance charges on software if using a PC seriously.

In two years 4 months I will retire in Thailand.

I will at the time of retirement have a pension of approximately about $28.000 USD and Medical. The medical covers me in the USA. I don't think that it will cover me in Thailand.

I have approximately $1.000.000 in assets. $200.000-$245.000 of this is in my house. Which is fully paid for. Why the big range in house value? Try selling a house in the USA and you will probably have the answer.

Most of my assets are very well diversified and professionally managed. Look at what the USA Stock Market has done recently. I could say that in recent times I have lost a considerable sum. Still this is a long term play. I am currently almost 53 years old.

All in all, I have managed to come up altogether with a fair amount of assets. If you consider that I don't actually make a lot of money. If you knew my income, you might be impressed with my actual net worth. I have not spent my money foolishly and have never had any dependents.

I actually have a very hard job. I won't go into the details. But it is working with the worst elements of society for the State.

I count the months until I can retire.

Why do I share all this. If I wasn't so worried about the possible expenses that the future might bring I would have retired a couple of months ago. But that would have meant no pension or medical for life.

I am ranting on. Forgive me.

Phil,

You're forgiven. It sounds like the biggest problem you'll have is that you worry too much.

As for your medical insurance: since you have US insurance, you should get a Thai policy if you're going to be spending most of your time here (Thailand). If you're going to be doing lots of traveling, I've found this to be a great plan:

http://www.imglobal.com/

International Medical Group is the administrator, underwritten by Sirius International. It offers worldwide coverage at a cost that most Americans will find very reasonable. (Anyone who is not an American or spends little time outside of Thailand can probably do much better.)

You said "Most of my assets are very well diversified and professionally managed. Look at what the USA Stock Market has done recently. I could say that in recent times I have lost a considerable sum." The DJIA and S&P 500 are both within appox 15% of their all time highs. Obver the past 5 years they are both up over 55%. If you've lost a "considerable sum" maybe you should be worried.

[vrsushi]

Phil, I am curious, if you died 12 months after arriving in Thailand (apart from the fact you'd be dead:) would you regret not having retired earlier? I mean, has the last 20 years of presumably saving hard come at a high cost?

To put it another way, if there has been sacrifice in the last 20/30 years (hard saving must mean that you haven't dated too many beautiful women for example, they cost whatever the country) how many years of Thailand would you have to get for you to consider the books balanced so to speak?

I ask because I am 40 and could easily wait another 15 years and be in your type of position. I actually like my job at the mo and have no stress etc but truth be told feel a little bored and that life is to be lived. So I think I'll retire early and clearly with much less than you. But of course I am not 100% sure that I am doing the right thing.

[Choscura]

In an attempt to plan as much as is umanly possible I have literally thought about my spending down to the last beer. So here goes. If anybody would like to point out any miscalculation on my part I'd be ever so grats. All figures are monthly.

2 bedroom house or 1 bedroom apt. 7k or buy for 2m bht

Vegertarian diet with fruit everyday and fresh veg. 6k Cooking at home, very little processed food.

Bills: water 200bht, gas 300bht, electricity 1000bht (fan most of the time, ac in hot season) ADSL 700bht, cable tv(only premier league matters)300bht, tel 200bht = 2700bht......lets say 3k

Scooter. 500bht for gas. 500bht for repairs and eventual replacement. 1k

Health. 500bht. Self insured really. But I almost never get ill.

Things for house 2k, clothes 1k, electronics 1k, books 1k........not into stuff at all. Hard to average out this as a monthly, but this is my best shot. = 5k

Entertainment. I usually drink 3 large beers twice a week. 300bht x2. Bowling daytime 200bht x2. Sports...50bht x4 Hiking 200bht 5/6 beers at home 200bht = 7k

Partner. Dinner out once a week. 1000bht Cinema and cheap meal 600bht = 7k

Travel. Once a year a month traveling with my friend. 20 quid a day backpacking. But minus the costs that I wont be incurring at home, plus a cheap flight or two....lets say 3k a month.

TOTAL 40k a month

Now, by now of course I look a bit anal, but at least........no there is no excuse. But as long as I havent short changed myself anywhere it seems that this 40k will provide me with quite a nice life.

I love reading, nature, exercising, music, chatting with friends. So with the above I really believe that I would have enough of what is needed to live my version at least of the good life.

But have I overlooked anything?

a 4 bedroom house can be had in sancampen for around 2-3000. in san sai it's about 3,000. my house, a town house on the superhighway, is 2 bedrooms and 3,500. if you're drinking the local beer, it's 3 large bottles for about 100, not 300. and how the hel_l can you spend 1000 baht on your gf/bf in just one meal? I don't even know how to do that here. the cinema/cheap meal thing.... the tickets cost about 120 baht. so you're up to 240. a cheap meal is another 360 baht on top of that? no way. a cheap meal here (and a good one) is about 20-40 baht, maybe a bit extra for the whole vegetarian thing but I can't really see spending more than 60 on that.

for chiang mai, you almost never need an aircon. you'll use it maybe 2 weeks during the hot season if you have it, and if you don't have it, it's not a big loss. other than that, with the bills, the gas will be a about right if you cook at home every day with it, the water is cheap here (I get one of those 10-liter things once a week or whenever I need it for 15 baht, so one of those per person? 30 baht a week, tops).

40,000 a month is a ridiculous amount to spend. I can see managing to spend that much if you've got a house and a family to support, but even with two people, 15,000 is a more realistic number for all the stuff you're talking about doing, maybe 25,000 a month if you want to go out and have a nice dinner once or twice a week.

[PeaceBlondie]

Shall we refer the OP to the ridiculously long thread about how any fool can survive along the wrong klong for 9000 baht per month, and others rent for 120,000? I think for a man planning to retire in Chiang Mai in a couple of years, 40K may be around right. He has no option to retire before age 55.

[cmsally]

If we use the Butter inflation index figures in a couple of years could be way off.

Does anyone know why butter has just doubled in price.

I know the price of milk has increased but it hasn't suddenly doubled, neither has cheese from what I have seen.

Before anyone goes on about imports we are talking about both Allowrie and Imperial.

Back to topic; by all means retire , but only if you don't like dairy products

[philliphn]

I actually have a very hard job. I won't go into the details. But it is working with the worst elements of society for the State.

A prison guard?

No.

[philliphn]

I've been working on a retirement spending buudget plan for some time (and being conservative I never seem to be able to convince myself I have enough!). A few items I have in my busget, not explicitly mentioned by the original poster are:

- intenet access (about 1,500 Bhat/month if you want it at home)

- communications (phone bills and postage - assuming you might maintain some contact overseas)

- insurance on house contents, and maybe travel insurance.

- dentist (assuming not covered under health). Insurance policies usually do not cover dental work

- gifts to friends and families (in thailand, and/or back home, parents birdthdays, wedding aniversaries etc).

- subscriptions to clubs and societies, and also maintenance charges on software if using a PC seriously.

In two years 4 months I will retire in Thailand.

I will at the time of retirement have a pension of approximately about $28.000 USD and Medical. The medical covers me in the USA. I don't think that it will cover me in Thailand.

I have approximately $1.000.000 in assets. $200.000-$245.000 of this is in my house. Which is fully paid for. Why the big range in house value? Try selling a house in the USA and you will probably have the answer.

Most of my assets are very well diversified and professionally managed. Look at what the USA Stock Market has done recently. I could say that in recent times I have lost a considerable sum. Still this is a long term play. I am currently almost 53 years old.

All in all, I have managed to come up altogether with a fair amount of assets. If you consider that I don't actually make a lot of money. If you knew my income, you might be impressed with my actual net worth. I have not spent my money foolishly and have never had any dependents.

I actually have a very hard job. I won't go into the details. But it is working with the worst elements of society for the State.

I count the months until I can retire.

Why do I share all this. If I wasn't so worried about the possible expenses that the future might bring I would have retired a couple of months ago. But that would have meant no pension or medical for life.

I am ranting on. Forgive me.

Phil,

You're forgiven. It sounds like the biggest problem you'll have is that you worry too much.

As for your medical insurance: since you have US insurance, you should get a Thai policy if you're going to be spending most of your time here (Thailand). If you're going to be doing lots of traveling, I've found this to be a great plan:

http://www.imglobal.com/

International Medical Group is the administrator, underwritten by Sirius International. It offers worldwide coverage at a cost that most Americans will find very reasonable. (Anyone who is not an American or spends little time outside of Thailand can probably do much better.)

You said "Most of my assets are very well diversified and professionally managed. Look at what the USA Stock Market has done recently. I could say that in recent times I have lost a considerable sum." The DJIA and S&P 500 are both within appox 15% of their all time highs. Obver the past 5 years they are both up over 55%. If you've lost a "considerable sum" maybe you should be worried.

You are right about worrying. I do worry alot!

I know that over 5 years I have not done too bad. I am still worried about the more near term, and alot of other things!

[philliphn]

Phil, I am curious, if you died 12 months after arriving in Thailand (apart from the fact you'd be dead:) would you regret not having retired earlier? I mean, has the last 20 years of presumably saving hard come at a high cost?

To put it another way, if there has been sacrifice in the last 20/30 years (hard saving must mean that you haven't dated too many beautiful women for example, they cost whatever the country) how many years of Thailand would you have to get for you to consider the books balanced so to speak?

I ask because I am 40 and could easily wait another 15 years and be in your type of position. I actually like my job at the mo and have no stress etc but truth be told feel a little bored and that life is to be lived. So I think I'll retire early and clearly with much less than you. But of course I am not 100% sure that I am doing the right thing.

If I died after being in Thailand for only 12 months. Then yes I would regret it. However, this is still better than not living in Thailand at all.

Saving hard has come at a fairly high cost. This has more to do with the stress and pressures at work than anything else.

As for dating beautiful women. Unfortunately, I am only average to below average in appearance. That being the truth, dating beautiful women, was not really an option for me, in the country and State that I live in.

I agree life is to be lived. But, no matter where you are the less resources you have the less you are likely to have the opportunity to live it.

Am I bored? I am and stressed out. Still I have no health problems.

It may be wise to use your best earning years to create a safety net and nest egg for your self. The cost of things have a way of getting higher. For instance the value of the Thai Baht against the dollar. In the last 4 years the Dollar has lost a quarter of it value against the Baht. Will this situation last forever? Who can say. If you are in Euros you are currently in a better position. But, don't think that this cannot change.

At this point two years 4 months more of enduring work and I will be in a very comfortable position.

Those are going to be a hard two years 4 months you can bet on it!

"How many years to balance the books." As you put it. This is hard to say. Just to pick a number. I like the ring of twenty years+++.

You have heard the story about the Grass Hopper and the Ant. The Grass Hopper party-ed all spring and summer long. Every now and then he would run into the Ant. The Ant was always working hard and storing away resources. The Grass Hooper would say, why don't you just dance, drink and party. The Ant would say winter is coming. It won't be spring and summer forever. Well the truth is I am in my early 50's and winter is inevitably coming. When winter comes, I will be older and likely less able to store away resources and if I didn't do it along the way. Then the stores would not be very full. Any how when winter came the Ant was prepared and the Grass Hopper was not and froze to death. You get the idea. True enough tomorrow is promised to any one. But their are reasonable odds to play.

Wishing the best for every one.

Edited February 13, 2008 by philliphn

[philliphn]

In an attempt to plan as much as is umanly possible I have literally thought about my spending down to the last beer. So here goes. If anybody would like to point out any miscalculation on my part I'd be ever so grats. All figures are monthly.

2 bedroom house or 1 bedroom apt. 7k or buy for 2m bht

Vegertarian diet with fruit everyday and fresh veg. 6k Cooking at home, very little processed food.

Bills: water 200bht, gas 300bht, electricity 1000bht (fan most of the time, ac in hot season) ADSL 700bht, cable tv(only premier league matters)300bht, tel 200bht = 2700bht......lets say 3k

Scooter. 500bht for gas. 500bht for repairs and eventual replacement. 1k

Health. 500bht. Self insured really. But I almost never get ill.

Things for house 2k, clothes 1k, electronics 1k, books 1k........not into stuff at all. Hard to average out this as a monthly, but this is my best shot. = 5k

Entertainment. I usually drink 3 large beers twice a week. 300bht x2. Bowling daytime 200bht x2. Sports...50bht x4 Hiking 200bht 5/6 beers at home 200bht = 7k

Partner. Dinner out once a week. 1000bht Cinema and cheap meal 600bht = 7k

Travel. Once a year a month traveling with my friend. 20 quid a day backpacking. But minus the costs that I wont be incurring at home, plus a cheap flight or two....lets say 3k a month.

TOTAL 40k a month

Now, by now of course I look a bit anal, but at least........no there is no excuse. But as long as I havent short changed myself anywhere it seems that this 40k will provide me with quite a nice life.

I love reading, nature, exercising, music, chatting with friends. So with the above I really believe that I would have enough of what is needed to live my version at least of the good life.

But have I overlooked anything?

a 4 bedroom house can be had in sancampen for around 2-3000. in san sai it's about 3,000. my house, a town house on the superhighway, is 2 bedrooms and 3,500. if you're drinking the local beer, it's 3 large bottles for about 100, not 300. and how the hel_l can you spend 1000 baht on your gf/bf in just one meal? I don't even know how to do that here. the cinema/cheap meal thing.... the tickets cost about 120 baht. so you're up to 240. a cheap meal is another 360 baht on top of that? no way. a cheap meal here (and a good one) is about 20-40 baht, maybe a bit extra for the whole vegetarian thing but I can't really see spending more than 60 on that.

for chiang mai, you almost never need an aircon. you'll use it maybe 2 weeks during the hot season if you have it, and if you don't have it, it's not a big loss. other than that, with the bills, the gas will be a about right if you cook at home every day with it, the water is cheap here (I get one of those 10-liter things once a week or whenever I need it for 15 baht, so one of those per person? 30 baht a week, tops).

40,000 a month is a ridiculous amount to spend. I can see managing to spend that much if you've got a house and a family to support, but even with two people, 15,000 is a more realistic number for all the stuff you're talking about doing, maybe 25,000 a month if you want to go out and have a nice dinner once or twice a week.

I really appreciate your input!

[philliphn]

Phil, I am curious, if you died 12 months after arriving in Thailand (apart from the fact you'd be dead:) would you regret not having retired earlier? I mean, has the last 20 years of presumably saving hard come at a high cost?

To put it another way, if there has been sacrifice in the last 20/30 years (hard saving must mean that you haven't dated too many beautiful women for example, they cost whatever the country) how many years of Thailand would you have to get for you to consider the books balanced so to speak?

I ask because I am 40 and could easily wait another 15 years and be in your type of position. I actually like my job at the mo and have no stress etc but truth be told feel a little bored and that life is to be lived. So I think I'll retire early and clearly with much less than you. But of course I am not 100% sure that I am doing the right thing.

If I died after being in Thailand for only 12 months. Then yes I would regret it. However, this is still better than not living in Thailand at all.

Saving hard has come at a fairly high cost. This has more to do with the stress and pressures at work than anything else.

As for dating beautiful women. Unfortunately, I am only average to below average in appearance. That being the truth, dating beautiful women, was not really an option for me, in the country and State that I live in.

I agree life is to be lived. But, no matter where you are the less resources you have the less you are likely to have the opportunity to live it.

Am I bored? I am and stressed out. Still I have no health problems.

It may be wise to use your best earning years to create a safety net and nest egg for your self. The cost of things have a way of getting higher. For instance the value of the Thai Baht against the dollar. In the last 4 years the Dollar has lost a quarter of it value against the Baht. Will this situation last forever? Who can say. If you are in Euros you are currently in a better position. But, don't think that this cannot change.

At this point two years 4 months more of enduring work and I will be in a very comfortable position.

Those are going to be a hard two years 4 months you can bet on it!

"How many years to balance the books." As you put it. This is hard to say. Just to pick a number. I like the ring of twenty years+++.

You have heard the story about the Grass Hopper and the Ant. The Grass Hopper party-ed all spring and summer long. Every now and then he would run into the Ant. The Ant was always working hard and storing away resources. The Grass Hooper would say, why don't you just dance, drink and party. The Ant would say winter is coming. It won't be spring and summer forever. Well the truth is I am in my early 50's and winter is inevitably coming. When winter comes, I will be older and likely less able to store away resources and if I didn't do it along the way. Then the stores would not be very full. Any how when winter came the Ant was prepared and the Grass Hopper was not and froze to death. You get the idea. True enough tomorrow is promised to any one. But their are reasonable odds to play.

Wishing the best for every one.

I meant to write the future is not promised to any one.

[Ulysses G.]

As for dating beautiful women. Unfortunately, I am only average to below average in appearance. That being the truth, dating beautiful women, was not really an option for me, in the country and State that I live in.

I tip much more towards the below average segment, but it hasn't been much of a hindrance here.

In fact, once you get it out of your system and seeing beautiful women becomes commonplace, it stops being of such importance. Hopefully, if I get married some day, it will be to someone that I can trust who actually cares about me, instead of some pretty airhead with a young Thai husband lurking in the background!

[vrsushi]

Philliphn,

Thanks very much for your honest reply. It sounds like you have been keeping your jam in the fridge for a very long time and have been liviing off bread. You have saved a hel_l of a lot. Best of luck to you in your future life. 28 months isn't all that long. I guess I'd be sticking it out if I were you if it ment getting full health insurance at the end of it.

Nobody has said anything that makes me think 40k a month isn't a nice figure to live off. I admit that the one thing I don't have is a car, but I've never had one and it has never crossed my mind. Holidays in Europe etc would be nice, but I wouldn't work another 10 years for either of these things.

To the poster who can't believe a dinner can cost 1000bht. I ment dinner with a few drinks each. And 3 beers for 100bht? I like to drink in a bar not in my home. Surely 15k a month is a pretty frugal lifestyle.

[worldtravel76]

See you everywhere on this board but no time to answer a few questions for me? Oh well thats the way it goes

If we use the Butter inflation index figures in a couple of years could be way off.

Does anyone know why butter has just doubled in price.

I know the price of milk has increased but it hasn't suddenly doubled, neither has cheese from what I have seen.

Before anyone goes on about imports we are talking about both Allowrie and Imperial.

Back to topic; by all means retire , but only if you don't like dairy products

[/quote

[moe666]

Don't drink milk and use very little butter, let it triple in price.

[vrsushi]

See you everywhere on this board but no time to answer a few questions for me? Oh well thats the way it goes

If we use the Butter inflation index figures in a couple of years could be way off.

Does anyone know why butter has just doubled in price.

I know the price of milk has increased but it hasn't suddenly doubled, neither has cheese from what I have seen.

Before anyone goes on about imports we are talking about both Allowrie and Imperial.

Back to topic; by all means retire , but only if you don't like dairy products

[/quote

If this is for me, sorry. But as above, I don't drink milk. Why would you drink something full of hormones and fat when soy milk is better tasting and better for you.

Ditto for butter. Healthy margarin for me. Though don't use much of that either.

[Ulysses G.]

Most people in the health industry say that soy milk and tofu are not really very healthy. Some fermented soy products are better.

[vrsushi]

ANy link for those claims Ulysses?

[Ulysses G.]

Give me some time and I will find them, but sabaijai has shared some information in the past about this that was eye-opening. He is one smart dude!

[cmsally]

Like everything, only good in moderation:

Should we worry about Soya?

[vrsushi]

thanks for the link Sally. Wow, bit depressing really. Will have to read it again to digest it properly, but it seems that soy milk is not the food I thought it was.

[Bill97]

Thanks to UG, Sabaijai and CMSally for the information on this, it was new to me too.