To Register Or Not To Register In The Los

[phormio]

My Thai wife and I were married in the US over 10 years ago and we have never registered the marriage in Thailand. We have a 1 year old baby daughter and will be moving to Thailand permanently at the end of 2004.

What are the advantages and disadvantages for registering our marriage in Thailand?

Should we register our marriage in Thailand ?

Thanks.

[ProThaiExpat]

Assuming that your Thai wife is still a Thai citizen, once she obtains an identity card, if she doesn't already have one, it would seem to me on first impression that there would be an advantage in registering your marriage in Thailand, or for that matter, marrying again in Thailand, so you could take advantage of the "supporting Thai wife" one year extention on a non-immigrant 0 visa with 400k Baht in the bank as a means of minimal effort long stay.

[phormio]

Assuming that your Thai wife is still a Thai citizen, once she obtains an identity card, if she doesn't already have one, it would seem to me on first impression that there would be an advantage in registering your marriage in Thailand, or for that matter, marrying again in Thailand, so you could take advantage of the "supporting Thai wife" one year extention on a non-immigrant 0 visa with 400k Baht in the bank as a means of minimal effort long stay.

My wife has a Thai Passport and Identity Card. She went to college in the US. Your post implies that I will not be able to get a Non-Immigrant O visa for wife support unless our marriage is registered in Thailand. Do you know this to be the case ?

Can we register the marriage through the Thai Consulate/Embassy in the US ?

As an alternative , I believe that I can get my daughter a Thai Passport and get a non-imm O based on support of a Thai Child.

[ProThaiExpat]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply anything.

Your question seems to be "Will a U.S. marriage to a Thai citizen be recognized for all purposes in Thailand without taking any further steps with the Thai govenment?"

The answer to that question is unknown to me. There will be an answer coming, shortly, I am sure, as there are others who have been down this path.

[lopburi3]

If you are married; you are married. But you may have to have translations made and documents registered for some things.

Your wife should have a Thai passport and that should indicate she is Mrs. and

her ID card should also be changed to Mrs. but that can be done here in Thailand.

You will probably have to make legal copies of marriage papers so bring them along.

As PTE says someone should post soon that have been there and done that as it seems to be quite common to return to Thailand in later years. Although you may still be a youngster.

You should also obtain a Thai passport for daughter.

Those that have done please fill in and correct as required.

[Phil Conners]

There is no advantage in registering your marriage in Thailand. My wife and I married in Europe. My government offers marriage certificates in English on request and it worked right away for Non-O marriage visa.

If you have a marriage certificate translated from another language than English you will need to get your embassy to certify the translation.

If you have the child in Thailand it will automatically get on your wife's family papers (I don't remember what it's called, the hospital will tell you).

If the child is born outside Thailand go to the nearest Thai embassy with the birth certificate and the wifes paperworks and they'll take care of it.

In either case your name will be on the papers as the father (if that's what you are) and you should bring that paper for your Non-O extenstions as it will make things easier for you.

[phormio]

Madsere,

Seems like you did not even have to have your English language Marriage certificate translated into Thai to get your Non Imm O visa.

My daughter was born in the states and I am in process of getting her a Thai birth certificate - the problems I am running in to while doing this will be the subject of a topic that i will be starting in the next few minutes.

The question I really want to ask is - " will there be any tangible benefits to registering our marriage in Thailand ? or will there be any detrimental effects to my wife in terms of career possibilities , discrimination , sociale, or negative legal effects because she's registered as married? ".

The name and title are not an issue in and of themselves.

ProThaiExpat,

I am inferring,you aint implying.

Thanks for taking the time for responding to my query.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There's absolutely no reason to register your marriage in Thailand. There's no pro's or con's. A certified Thai translation of the US marriage certificate is all you'll ever need.

[CMexpat]

Agree with the dr. No reason whatsoever.

We have done all our paperworks with an international marriage certificate, sometimes with and sometimes without a certified translation. On her Thai ID and Passport my lovely wife is still a Ms.

[ProThaiExpat]

CMexpat: Please elaborate on what you mean by an "international" marriage license.

We have done all our paperworks with an international marriage certificate

What is it? Where did you get it? Who issued it? etc. I was unaware there was such a thing!! Thought one could only get a certificate of marriage issued by the jurisdiction in which you are married????

Many thanks for any information you can provide.

[frequentatore]

Agree with the dr. No reason whatsoever.

We have done all our paperworks with an international marriage certificate, sometimes with and sometimes without a certified translation. On her Thai ID and Passport my lovely wife is still a Ms.

I confirm. From experience, no need of a marriage in Thailand and she can keep her name on her IDs.

To some of the members, stop confusing people by guessing the answer!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Agree with the dr. No reason whatsoever.

We have done all our paperworks with an international marriage certificate, sometimes with and sometimes without a certified translation. On her Thai ID and Passport my lovely wife is still a Ms.

I confirm. From experience, no need of a marriage in Thailand and she can keep her name on her IDs.

To some of the members, stop confusing people by guessing the answer!

Having a stab at the answers to visa questions is a pain in the butt too. And misinformation can easily get someone in the pooh.

[shellman]

Assuming that your Thai wife is still a Thai citizen, once she obtains an identity card, if she doesn't already have one, it would seem to me on first impression that there would be an advantage in registering your marriage in Thailand, or for that matter, marrying again in Thailand, so you could take advantage of the "supporting Thai wife" one year extention on a non-immigrant 0 visa with 400k Baht in the bank as a means of minimal effort long stay.

My wife has a Thai Passport and Identity Card. She went to college in the US. Your post implies that I will not be able to get a Non-Immigrant O visa for wife support unless our marriage is registered in Thailand. Do you know this to be the case ?

Can we register the marriage through the Thai Consulate/Embassy in the US ?

As an alternative , I believe that I can get my daughter a Thai Passport and get a non-imm O based on support of a Thai Child.

If you really want to register your marriage, it can be done at the Thai Embassy (i am not sure about consulates) in the country where the marriage happened. but there is, as others said, no reason to do so as it will not give you any advantage. You can use your original Marriage Certificate (which has to be translated into thai and certified at the Thai Embassy or a Consulate - at least that was the latest available information - I don't think that a english version of it is enough for any Visa Matters for you) in the US. It could also be translated in Thailand and certified at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (I had to do that for some of my papers before I could marry my wife but it is hassle free and not expensive at all).

cheers

[astral]

My Thai wife and I were married in the US over 10 years ago and we have never registered the marriage in Thailand. We have a 1 year old baby daughter and will be moving to Thailand permanently at the end of 2004.

What are the advantages and disadvantages for registering our marriage in Thailand?

Should we register our marriage in Thailand ?

Thanks.

Why do you think you need to register the marriage here in Thailand?

As far as know there is nothing that says that the marriage certificate presented for a Non Imm O visa, based on Marriage must be a Thai certificate.

Check with your local immigration office if they will accept the American Document, or if you need a certified translation.

You would have trouble "marrying again" as you would be unable to truthfully swear the affidavit at you Embassy.

[lopburi3]

I believe this question is more of the old "hide the marriage or wife can not buy land" type as this marriage took place when those problems were real. These days the rules have been changed and it is no longer necessary to hide marriage for wife to enjoy full rights of any Thai. As for respect believe any married woman has more than a single woman and the fact husband is a foreigner is not the liability it was several decades ago.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

My Thai wife and I were married in the US over 10 years ago and we have never registered the marriage in Thailand. We have a 1 year old baby daughter and will be moving to Thailand permanently at the end of 2004.

What are the advantages and disadvantages for registering our marriage in Thailand?

Should we register our marriage in Thailand ?

Thanks.

Why do you think you need to register the marriage here in Thailand?

As far as know there is nothing that says that the marriage certificate presented for a Non Imm O visa, based on Marriage must be a Thai certificate.

Check with your local immigration office if they will accept the American Document, or if you need a certified translation.

You would have trouble "marrying again" as you would be unable to truthfully swear the affidavit at you Embassy.

Thailand will recognize legal marriage from pretty well anywhere. The accent is on the word legal.

[JimGant]

Your wife should have a Thai passport and that should indicate she is Mrs. and her ID card should also be changed to Mrs. but that can be done here in Thailand.

Unlike US passports, Thai passports DO indicate "Miss" or "Mrs" (at least my wife's does, but it is several years old and possibly "MS" or no status is now the norm). But assuming things haven't changed, if your wife has your Farang last name, a "Miss" could raise eyebrows -- or even require divorce papers to be shown.

Now, having said that, my Thai wife of 25 years kept her Thai name when we married in the States. Ok under US law, but Thai law at that time said you must take your husband's name. Piss on them, we said, as it was too big a pain in the butt to change her name in all her paperwork. Besides, we assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the Thais would honor US marriage law not requiring name change. We didn't even think about buying land then, although not changing her name would have been beneficial under the old Thai law (as Lop points out). Furthermore, she is still today a "Miss" on her Thai ID card and Thai passport, again not for land buying purpose, but because being a "Mrs" can require some extra hurdles in sexist Thailand. When she is required to indicate her marriage, like when 'we' finally bought land in Thailand, she just checks the "Mrs" block and everything goes smoothly (i.e., no questions as to why her ID card says "Miss").

So, having said all that, does anyone see any problems with this? We certainly don't worry about any social stigma, as anyone we care about knows we're married. Plus, when necessary, proving our marriage is readily doable -- and as I said, so far no one has asked why her ID card says single when we're certifiably married.

Maybe this is no longer an issue, as one poster indicates his wife is a "Ms" on her Thai ID and passport. Is this really the case now? Or are there still just two blocks (Miss or Mrs) when applications are filled out? If so, sure would like to hear your learned replies as to which block she should check when it's ID and passport renewal time again.

Thanks.

[phormio]

Your wife should have a Thai passport and that should indicate she is Mrs. and her ID card should also be changed to Mrs. but that can be done here in Thailand.

Unlike US passports, Thai passports DO indicate "Miss" or "Mrs" (at least my wife's does, but it is several years old and possibly "MS" or no status is now the norm). But assuming things haven't changed, if your wife has your Farang last name, a "Miss" could raise eyebrows -- or even require divorce papers to be shown.

Now, having said that, my Thai wife of 25 years kept her Thai name when we married in the States. Ok under US law, but Thai law at that time said you must take your husband's name. Piss on them, we said, as it was too big a pain in the butt to change her name in all her paperwork. Besides, we assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the Thais would honor US marriage law not requiring name change. We didn't even think about buying land then, although not changing her name would have been beneficial under the old Thai law (as Lop points out). Furthermore, she is still today a "Miss" on her Thai ID card and Thai passport, again not for land buying purpose, but because being a "Mrs" can require some extra hurdles in sexist Thailand. When she is required to indicate her marriage, like when 'we' finally bought land in Thailand, she just checks the "Mrs" block and everything goes smoothly (i.e., no questions as to why her ID card says "Miss").

So, having said all that, does anyone see any problems with this? We certainly don't worry about any social stigma, as anyone we care about knows we're married. Plus, when necessary, proving our marriage is readily doable -- and as I said, so far no one has asked why her ID card says single when we're certifiably married.

Maybe this is no longer an issue, as one poster indicates his wife is a "Ms" on her Thai ID and passport. Is this really the case now? Or are there still just two blocks (Miss or Mrs) when applications are filled out? If so, sure would like to hear your learned replies as to which block she should check when it's ID and passport renewal time again.

Thanks.

These are excellent points and I'm about to find out since I'm going to apply for a non-imm O for myself and get a birth certificate and Thai Passport for my baby daughter(at the New York City Thai Consulate). There will be inconsistencies between my wifes' docs and what we will be doing - presenting documentation of our marriage and the birth of our child. So this was a concern in the back of my mind.

I'll tend to trust the judgment of the long-timers here and believe that registering the marriage in Thailand has little or no benefit.

Astral's point with regarding to the swearing inconsistency about marriage eligibility because I'm already married to the woman I'm going to marry is a delicious irony.

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions. I'll let you know how it turns out as things happen in the next month or two.

[Phil Conners]

Madsere,

Seems like you did not even have to have your English language Marriage certificate translated into Thai to get your Non Imm O visa.

My daughter was born in the states and I am in process of getting her a Thai birth certificate - the problems I am running in to while doing this will be the subject of a topic that i will be starting in the next few minutes.

I did not have to have my English-language marriage certificate translated to Thai, it was accepted as it was right away.

My daughter was born in Europe, and we (Wife, child and me) went to the nearest Thai Embassy with the birth certificate and mothers papers (house papers, family papers and passport) and our daughter was added to papers and got her own Thai passport right away.

[Phil Conners]

I believe this question is more of the old "hide the marriage or wife can not buy land" type as this marriage took place when those problems were real. These days the rules have been changed and it is no longer necessary to hide marriage for wife to enjoy full rights of any Thai. As for respect believe any married woman has more than a single woman and the fact husband is a foreigner is not the liability it was several decades ago.

It may be legal right now, but who knows when they change the rules again.

[phormio]

...

It may be legal right now, but who knows when they change the rules again.

Pardon the naivete, but

do any of you guys know of laws or regulations in Thailand that have flipped flopped in this way and caused hardship for expats?

I did not have to have my English-language marriage certificate translated to Thai, it was accepted as it was right away.:

Thanks for the info on not needing a Thai translation of the marriage certificate.

[lopburi3]

...

It may be legal right now, but who knows when they change the rules again.

Pardon the naivete, but

do any of you guys know of laws or regulations in Thailand that have flipped flopped in this way and caused hardship for expats?

I did not have to have my English-language marriage certificate translated to Thai, it was accepted as it was right away.:

Thanks for the info on not needing a Thai translation of the marriage certificate.

The land ownership was never a flip/flop and was never a law. There was a policy not to register land owned by females married to foreigners (key was last name) as Thai law did not allow ownership by foreigners but marriage law was of joint property. So to avoid problems later this 'policy' was put in force.

As the new constitution forbids discrimination/and the old system did not prevent males from registering land the policy was changed and new provisions put in place to take care of the inherence problem (property is not included in marriage property as money is hers alone). I would not expect any change backwards/flip flop.

[CMexpat]

CMexpat: Please elaborate on what you mean by an "international" marriage license.

We have done all our paperworks with an international marriage certificate

What is it? Where did you get it? Who issued it? etc. I was unaware there was such a thing!! Thought one could only get a certificate of marriage issued by the jurisdiction in which you are married????

Many thanks for any information you can provide.

Actually it is a "Extract of the register of marriage".

We married in Germany, since we both hold other nationalities then German I thought it might be usefull for us, and it has been. We needed to apply for this document at the jurisdiction in which we married and was issued at an extra fee. We were given this document on our wedding day but I asume you can apply afterwards as well.

The document is in nine languages (no Thai) and we have attached a Thai translation, certified by the Thai Embassy in Germany. It has always done the job. One year visas, work permit and PR.