Allergies

[DavidS]

Since I quit smoking a couple of years ago, not only have I become allergic to cigarette smoke, but dust and pollen trouble me more easily than before.

I go through a box of Clarityne a month easily. A friend suggested that long term regular use of this medication is not advisable.

I do not want to use steroidal nasal sprays, because of the thinning of the nasal lining these cause. No luck finding non-steroidal sprays at Boots.

Anyone in the same boat can share their experience?

[moldy]

Since I quit smoking a couple of years ago, not only have I become allergic to cigarette smoke, but dust and pollen trouble me more easily than before.

I go through a box of Clarityne a month easily. A friend suggested that long term regular use of this medication is not advisable.

I do not want to use steroidal nasal sprays, because of the thinning of the nasal lining these cause. No luck finding non-steroidal sprays at Boots.

Anyone in the same boat can share their experience?

Yes pretty much in the same boat. The bad news is that I don't think any of the new anti-histamines are much use for runny nose allergies, and I don't think there is any pill that will give you the quick fix effect anyway. In fact long term use may be counter productive.

But the older HCI ones will help and will certainly provide sedation. I use actifed, now and then to good effect. It's not a good idea to use drugs more than a week or 2 really.

It sounds like you are not getting to grips with the main cause of your allergy. In this instance then your nose is likely quite agitated and you'll be susceptible to just about any irritant. Perhaps a first step is allergy testing. It's quick, cheap and painless.

You don't say where you are, but if you are in a big city then general air pollution must be ruled out before all else. And I think this applies even more so if you live in Bangkok or Chiang Mai for instance.

There is of course no substitute for the word of a trained medical professional standing right in front of you, but I'll be brave and guess it's persistent non allergic rhinitis based on traffic fumes, with the complication of minor allergic rhinitis too (hey fever). In this instance then you should cut down on the amount of time you are outside for sure, and also wear some form of mask. Adequate rest is essential. You might want to rinse your nasal passages 2 or 3 times a day, and take lots of steamy showers or use steam tents ( just hold your head over a bowl of hot NOT BOILING water with a towel draped over your head). When the essentials are in place you might then want to experiment with various antihistamines and nasal sprays for temporary, minor relief..

[DavidS]

Yes pretty much in the same boat. The bad news is that I don't think any of the new anti-histamines are much use for runny nose allergies, and I don't think there is any pill that will give you the quick fix effect anyway. In fact long term use may be counter productive.

But the older HCI ones will help and will certainly provide sedation. I use actifed, now and then to good effect. It's not a good idea to use drugs more than a week or 2 really.

It sounds like you are not getting to grips with the main cause of your allergy. In this instance then your nose is likely quite agitated and you'll be susceptible to just about any irritant. Perhaps a first step is allergy testing. It's quick, cheap and painless.

You don't say where you are, but if you are in a big city then general air pollution must be ruled out before all else. And I think this applies even more so if you live in Bangkok or Chiang Mai for instance.

There is of course no substitute for the word of a trained medical professional standing right in front of you, but I'll be brave and guess it's persistent non allergic rhinitis based on traffic fumes, with the complication of minor allergic rhinitis too (hey fever). In this instance then you should cut down on the amount of time you are outside for sure, and also wear some form of mask. Adequate rest is essential. You might want to rinse your nasal passages 2 or 3 times a day, and take lots of steamy showers or use steam tents ( just hold your head over a bowl of hot NOT BOILING water with a towel draped over your head). When the essentials are in place you might then want to experiment with various antihistamines and nasal sprays for temporary, minor relief..

Thanks, I live in Bangkok, on the outskirts though.

Usually have a problem when I go downtown and that is generally for an evening out, so the smoke in the pub doesn't help. Takes about 2 - 3 days to recover, with Clarityne, and longer if it has been particularly smoky.

This current dry season has been rough, so I would guess the dust in the air is a factor.

Have not been tested for allergies, so that's a worthwhile idea.

[moldy]

It's a familiar scenario and the air quality has been paricularly bad lately.

Increasingly sounds like air pollution is your problem. When you go to town wear a mask.

Yes, get allergy tested at any big hospital, eg, St Louis.

Good idea to have a check up anyway in case there are any bacterial issues.

[MrPlum]

'There is of course no substitute for the word of a trained medical professional standing right in front of you'

Only if the professional has the answer to your problem.

Clearly, based on the degree of illness in the Western world, Allopathic doctors do not. They have little time these days to do anything but run their finger down a table of symptoms to select the recommended drug or drugs. Allopathic doctors have never once asked me about nutrition when there is incontravertible evidence that western diets are creating most of the illnesses and degenerative disorders we see. Why would they? They aren't trained in it.

For many years I suffered greatly with hayfever, food sensitivities, anxiety, digestive problems and joint pain. I tried many doctors and different therapies without success. I had many tests at Bumrungrad, including allergy testing and while I was very impressed with the level of service and sophistication, I was disappointed with the outcome and loaded up with overpriced and ineffective drugs. If they didn't know the cause, how could they prescribe? It was then that I decided to take responsibility for my own health and over the last three years have educated myself about natural approaches, including Thai herbology.

A naturopathic approach relies on three strategies. 1. Detoxing 2. Alkalysing the body and 3. Providing nutrients to cells. Emotions may also need to be addressed but by addressing the first three, most illnesses (it is claimed) are cured.

Since detoxing my body and improving my diet, everything has improved greatly. My allergies have cleared up, digestion has improved and my mind is much calmer (despite the best efforts of the stock market to upset it).

Changing my diet was an effort. But with access to nutritious food more readily available in Thailand, I was able to strip out grains, dairy (including ice cream), refined oils, red meat, pork, sugar, anything with fructose corn syrup, sodas, including 'diet' drinks, anything processed or in a tin and products with 'Natural' on the packaging. If I ate a Big Mac now it would probably kill me.

I also incorporated Yoga (some simple stretching) into a daily program. I take a tablespoon of Organic Olive Oil balanced with lemon juice daily. I also drink a glass of home-made lemonade soda morning and night to keep my PH around 7.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and I feel a new man.

I appreciate that some may not go as far as I have done and when it comes to health, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Other approaches include oxygen therapies, fasting and homeopathy. I even tried Ayurveda in India, for 6 weeks, which was a great experience.

A Dr Schultz, who has a large following, states that 80% of diseases are cured simply by cleaning the bowel. One would need to check this claim for oneself but the practice of cleansing the bowel is in the Bible. As is fasting.

"A Thai Herbal" by Pierce Salguero is fascinating. He drew his knowledge from ancient Wat Po texts and other sources. There are many useful herbs in Thailand. I'm growing several.

While drugs provide relief I have yet to see one drug in any pharmacy which says CURE on the labelling. Where is the healing in that?

It goes without saying that you must find a reputable practitioner. There is a Thai herbalist I consulted who was recommended to me, in Bangkok. Ask for Khun Chulakorn on 02-574-1669. She runs a spa and training school.

[expatwannabe]

A friend of mine used to swear by bee pollen. She claimed that her allergies completely went away after about 3 weeks of taking it.

I know you can get little jars of it in Carrefour, etc. If it works, it would probably be comparable in price to Claritin. But it would be natural.

[moldy]

A friend of mine used to swear by bee pollen. She claimed that her allergies completely went away after about 3 weeks of taking it.

I know you can get little jars of it in Carrefour, etc. If it works, it would probably be comparable in price to Claritin. But it would be natural.

I don't know at all, but I think we need to differentiate betwwen non allergic rhinitis (a runny nose in a city typically) and an allergy proper. The former is not an allergy at all but a reaction to irritants in the air, there is no magic pill because we are dealing with a corrosive poison really. Let's not confuse issues here.

[expatwannabe]

I wasn't confusing the issue. My friend had seasonal allergies every year. She began taking bee pollen and found that her allergies disappeared.

She doesn't live in Bangkok with all the poisons in the air. She lives in South San Francisco.

Edited February 18, 2008 by expatwannabe

[crowbait]

Of the newer antihistamines, I have found Cetirazine to be effective with minimal side effects and no drowsiness............I take it from May to October 'coz I@m allergic to most forms of pollen,

The old standby is Piriton (chlorpheniramine) which is very safe but does cause some drowsiness. Piriton will usually act very quickly if you get caught out with a local allergic reaction, so I allways carry some for emergencies.

[brahmburgers]

I probably get hay fever as bad as anyone. I once nearly died after pitching hay at a farm - my lungs filled with watery clear phlegm. scary. It's exacerbated by smoke in the burning season - which is nigh upon us - especially up here in C.Rai.

I try to avoid pills, but use Actifed when need be. Supposed to take 2, but I take one pill - usually before bed - though more often I'll try to 'tough it out' and regret it later. By the way, Actifed (and probably other anti-histamines) are the opposite to Viagra for a guy's dong.

Other things that help a bit: filtered air, especially in sleeping area. I have a small 2nd hand space heater that works ok. Try raising the head of the bed by placing a brick under each foot. I use two pillows also. Dont's eat a big meal before retiring. Avoid sweets.

Another thing that helps is activities that get your adrenaline going: sports, jumping off buildings, arguing with your girl friend (maybe that's why I'm single, I often used to pick fights with my gf's just to get my adrenaline going to clear up my sinuses).

Best is if you can be out on a ship (with no smokers) but that's way out of my league. Next best is to reside where there's a breeze blowing from the sea (usually happens on west coasts).

[DavidS]

Thank all for the advice.

If a natural treatment can boost the body so that it can better cope with the muck in the air, I am all for it.

Since everyone in the same area faces the same air-borne irritants, and not everyone has the same reaction to them, I would agree that there is something that can be improved in my ability to cope.

[luumak]

hey that stuff used to work wonders for me but you should also check -

your blood pressure

your (old) pillows

dusty environments (thailand)

[moldy]

OP doesn't suffer hay fever does he? So what's the point of advising medicines for this?

[expatwannabe]

OP doesn't suffer hay fever does he? So what's the point of advising medicines for this?

The SAME response mechanism is responsible for runny nose/teary eyes whether it's from pollution or pollen.

The body detects something it doesn't like and produces histamines - which result in secretion of mucous and fluids.

Anti-histamines shut down that process. As well does anything that inhibits the histamine-producing mechanism.

Edited February 18, 2008 by expatwannabe

[moldy]

Thank all for the advice.

If a natural treatment can boost the body so that it can better cope with the muck in the air, I am all for it.

Since everyone in the same area faces the same air-borne irritants, and not everyone has the same reaction to them, I would agree that there is something that can be improved in my ability to cope.

I don't think it works like that David. All people react to air borne pollutants, some more than others. From your description you slot in to the group that reacts more forcefully, probably due to sensitive nasal linings, nothing more nothing less. The only things you can do are wear a mask and avoid exposure where possible. Nasal rinsing may prevent bacterial build up. Perhaps a steroid would be useful but that's really masking the problem. Don't think bee's wax or hanging a lizards's gizzard above the door will help a jot, lol. I really think you need to come to terms with this problem in a sensible manner.

[bina]

just a general word of warning: for those with allergies, bees pollen can kill......or at best make the allergy worse. my kids got propolis as an additive for 'strenghtening' their immune system... it actually exarcerbated their asthma and caused my eldest to sneeze constantly. we stopped the propolis and voila, back to regular allergic normal...

saline for the nose helps clean out the pollutants, and keeps nasal passages moist and flexible so they can deal with pollutants better...

and if pub smoke bothers u, then, obviously, dont go... if the pain is worse then the 'fun' that is....

bina

[DavidS]

just a general word of warning: for those with allergies, bees pollen can kill......or at best make the allergy worse. my kids got propolis as an additive for 'strenghtening' their immune system... it actually exarcerbated their asthma and caused my eldest to sneeze constantly. we stopped the propolis and voila, back to regular allergic normal...

saline for the nose helps clean out the pollutants, and keeps nasal passages moist and flexible so they can deal with pollutants better...

and if pub smoke bothers u, then, obviously, dont go... if the pain is worse then the 'fun' that is....

bina

Moldy, thanks for the sincere advice.

Bina, Much appreciate this warning. I do have a pretty severe reaction to pollen, as I discovered in Europe a few years back when I was outdoors and the trees were in full bloom. Felt as sick as death, though I did get over it within a few hours of getting back to the city. It did cross my mind about the effect of ingesting it, as compared to breathing it in.

[moldy]

OP doesn't suffer hay fever does he? So what's the point of advising medicines for this?

The SAME response mechanism is responsible for runny nose/teary eyes whether it's from pollution or pollen.

The body detects something it doesn't like and produces histamines - which result in secretion of mucous and fluids.

Anti-histamines shut down that process. As well does anything that inhibits the histamine-producing mechanism.

Again I'm not quite sure it works like that with the antigens that cause non allergic rhinitis, which unlike pollen are not harmless. Certainly the new style medicines don't work full stop, which is why he had no joy with Clarityn. Steroids would probably help but as I pointed out that still means he is wandering around with sulphuric acid, benzyne or whatever in his nose. My best advice is to immobilise any vehicle that falls with the range of sight, . Perhaps it is a habit we all need to learn and then we might have a world left in 50 years.

[moldy]

just a general word of warning: for those with allergies, bees pollen can kill......or at best make the allergy worse. my kids got propolis as an additive for 'strenghtening' their immune system... it actually exarcerbated their asthma and caused my eldest to sneeze constantly. we stopped the propolis and voila, back to regular allergic normal...

saline for the nose helps clean out the pollutants, and keeps nasal passages moist and flexible so they can deal with pollutants better...

and if pub smoke bothers u, then, obviously, dont go... if the pain is worse then the 'fun' that is....

bina

Moldy, thanks for the sincere advice.

Bina, Much appreciate this warning. I do have a pretty severe reaction to pollen, as I discovered in Europe a few years back when I was outdoors and the trees were in full bloom. Felt as sick as death, though I did get over it within a few hours of getting back to the city. It did cross my mind about the effect of ingesting it, as compared to breathing it in.

Ah well David S, then you may have hayfever. Get checked straight away as I previously advised. Older style HCI drugs will work and perhaps some of the newer ones too. You really need to get on this. The problem here is that after a few days of runny nose bacterial levels might build up causing you to feel hot, tired and a bit sick. Is this happening at the mo?

[moldy]

just a general word of warning: for those with allergies, bees pollen can kill......or at best make the allergy worse. my kids got propolis as an additive for 'strenghtening' their immune system... it actually exarcerbated their asthma and caused my eldest to sneeze constantly. we stopped the propolis and voila, back to regular allergic normal...

saline for the nose helps clean out the pollutants, and keeps nasal passages moist and flexible so they can deal with pollutants better...

and if pub smoke bothers u, then, obviously, dont go... if the pain is worse then the 'fun' that is....

bina

Moldy, thanks for the sincere advice.

Bina, Much appreciate this warning. I do have a pretty severe reaction to pollen, as I discovered in Europe a few years back when I was outdoors and the trees were in full bloom. Felt as sick as death, though I did get over it within a few hours of getting back to the city. It did cross my mind about the effect of ingesting it, as compared to breathing it in.

Ah well David S, then you may have hayfever. Get checked straight away as I previously advised. Older style HCI drugs will work and perhaps some of the newer ones too. You really need to get on this. The problem here is that after a few days of runny nose bacterial levels might build up causing you to feel hot, tired and a bit sick. Is this happening at the mo?

I on the other hand, most definitely have a chronic runny nose and sore eyes cused by vehicle smoke, I don't think there is any medicine that can help this, anybody know any different?

[DavidS]

Ah well David S, then you may have hayfever. Get checked straight away as I previously advised. Older style HCI drugs will work and perhaps some of the newer ones too. You really need to get on this. The problem here is that after a few days of runny nose bacterial levels might build up causing you to feel hot, tired and a bit sick. Is this happening at the mo?

It has been particularly troublesome lately, which is what prompted me to post the question about Clarityne.

As I mentioned, exposure to cigarette smoke troubles me the most, and if it is a bad spell lasting 3 or 4 days, then yes, I do feel sick and generally out of sorts. But it has been clearing up with Clarityne.

Today for example, (have not been near a smoker since last Saturday), I just keep sneezing and have irritated nasal passages that have me snorting away to get some relief. Yes, there are lots of trees where I live, but they are pretty much past peak flowering season, so I do not think that is the issue. House was just mopped clean yesterday afternoon, so that should not be it either. I know if I pop a Clarityne, I will feel better, but I am trying not to take that stuff every day.

General dust in the air, because Bangkok is just such a dusty city? Possible, though there is much less dust here as compared to when I lived in Ekkamai.

The last time I saw a doctor about it, he had me on antibiotics, had me take Clarityne for 2 weeks in order to get rid of the problem completely, and prescribed a steroidal nasal spray. I used the spray for a few days, then stopped. The other meds I finished.

Back to square one now, so other than money changing hands, nothing much changed really.

[moldy]

Ah well David S, then you may have hayfever. Get checked straight away as I previously advised. Older style HCI drugs will work and perhaps some of the newer ones too. You really need to get on this. The problem here is that after a few days of runny nose bacterial levels might build up causing you to feel hot, tired and a bit sick. Is this happening at the mo?

It has been particularly troublesome lately, which is what prompted me to post the question about Clarityne.

As I mentioned, exposure to cigarette smoke troubles me the most, and if it is a bad spell lasting 3 or 4 days, then yes, I do feel sick and generally out of sorts. But it has been clearing up with Clarityne.

Today for example, (have not been near a smoker since last Saturday), I just keep sneezing and have irritated nasal passages that have me snorting away to get some relief. Yes, there are lots of trees where I live, but they are pretty much past peak flowering season, so I do not think that is the issue. House was just mopped clean yesterday afternoon, so that should not be it either. I know if I pop a Clarityne, I will feel better, but I am trying not to take that stuff every day.

General dust in the air, because Bangkok is just such a dusty city? Possible, though there is much less dust here as compared to when I lived in Ekkamai.

The last time I saw a doctor about it, he had me on antibiotics, had me take Clarityne for 2 weeks in order to get rid of the problem completely, and prescribed a steroidal nasal spray. I used the spray for a few days, then stopped. The other meds I finished.

Back to square one now, so other than money changing hands, nothing much changed really.

There are certainly similarities with my own story.

Basically, if I stay indoors for a good few hours my nose is fine. I had a minor illness at the start of the month which confined me to bed for a few days and end of nose prob. full stop.

When I go outside for a while my nose starts to run or gets congested, after a few days it feels bruised and I experience a sort of sulphury/ammonic taste, I frequently sneeze and my eyes can itch. In the evenings I get a second reaction and usually a sneezing fit. Yes I experience the worst bouts as 2 or 3 day affairs too. I sometimes get infections too and blocked sinuses.

I had an allergy test which showed a reaction to common dust mite and that was it, but it can't be this as I'm ok indoors. The doctor advised me to limit journeys outside. She explained that she had lived in Bangkok all her life and never went outside walking for more than 5 mins and then only wearing a mask too. She said it was not an allergy so much as just toxic poisoning.

Last week I went to Pattaya on holiday. The prob. cleared up although I still had the odd sneezing bout or two when we went in to town - the whole problem seems directly related to car exhaust fumes. Upon returning to Bangkok it was back to the usual within a few minutes. I live in Fortune Town by the way, which is heavily congested. (as my nose often is too).

You mentioned an allergic reaction to pollen earlier, which makes me wonder if you have hayfever too. Allergy tests are so simple, it seems a sensible first step.

[Shoeboat]

I was running around all over Bangkok yesterday and about 6pm today I was hit with itchy eyes, unstoppable sneezing and constant runny nose - I guess it must be a seasonal dust thing - it's like a very bad case of hayfever and it has ruined my night.

The pharmacies are useless (here in MTT anyway) and just suggest random pills without really giving it any thought.

[moldy]

I was running around all over Bangkok yesterday and about 6pm today I was hit with itchy eyes, unstoppable sneezing and constant runny nose - I guess it must be a seasonal dust thing - it's like a very bad case of hayfever and it has ruined my night.

The pharmacies are useless (here in MTT anyway) and just suggest random pills without really giving it any thought.

Yes I agree. But the doctors don't seem to know any different either. I came to the conclusion there is simply no pill that will do the trick as we are talking about a toxic thing here and something of a severity that goes beyond the remit of a simple anti-histamine. There seems to be a double whammy- runny nose during the day and then a full blown attack in the evening.

I had some pretty big plans upon coming back from holiday, but was effectively immobilised really. It's more than just one of those things.

Can't be hay fever, probably chemicals in the terrible atmo.

Incidentally, if someone reading knows where I can buy an anti pollution mask in Bangers I'd be most grateful.

[cathyy]

I thought he said a friend advised him not to take Claritin long-term, not that it didn't work for him. I'd ask why not take it long-term?

I've been taking it daily for about 10 years, ever since it was released. I suffer from multiple allergies, from pollen and dust mites to mold and mildew, making my misery a year-round event in both the USA and here. FWIW, the 10 milligram dose was only approved by the FDA at the pharmaceutical company's insistence; the 20 milligram dose was far more effective in the clinical trials, but caused drowsiness and the pharmaceutical company wanted a non-sedating antihistamine to compete with Seldane. I take a 20 milligram dose whenever my allergic response gets out of hand. My doctor in the USA knew this and was fine with it.

[moldy]

I thought he said a friend advised him not to take Claritin long-term, not that it didn't work for him. I'd ask why not take it long-term?

I've been taking it daily for about 10 years, ever since it was released. I suffer from multiple allergies, from pollen and dust mites to mold and mildew, making my misery a year-round event in both the USA and here. FWIW, the 10 milligram dose was only approved by the FDA at the pharmaceutical company's insistence; the 20 milligram dose was far more effective in the clinical trials, but caused drowsiness and the pharmaceutical company wanted a non-sedating antihistamine to compete with Seldane. I take a 20 milligram dose whenever my allergic response gets out of hand. My doctor in the USA knew this and was fine with it.

Yes. I don't think there is any problem with taking this long term, but clearly it can't be working that well, and is in any case ineffective for non-allergic reactions. I dismissed Clarityn because it just didn't do anything for me and have heard much the same from several other people, but others like yourself rank it.

[cathyy]

Yes. I don't think there is any problem with taking this long term, but clearly it can't be working that well, and is in any case ineffective for non-allergic reactions. I dismissed Clarityn because it just didn't do anything for me and have heard much the same from several other people, but others like yourself rank it.

Everyone is different. I took Zyrtec for a few weeks, (when my drug plan wasn't covering Claritin anymore) and it did nothing for me at all. Claritin does, so my doc put me on Clarinex. It's just a matter of finding the one that works for you. Claritin, Zyrtec, etc. are all intended for allergies, as you said.

[DavidS]

I did manage to identify a non-steroidal nasal spray on the web.

Brand name: NasalCrom,

Content: cromolyn sodium.

Tried 4 pharmacies in Central Bangna last weekend, no luck. They all stock steroidal sprays only.

If anyone comes across this in Bangkok, I'd appreciate being told.

[moldy]

I did manage to identify a non-steroidal nasal spray on the web.

Brand name: NasalCrom,

Content: cromolyn sodium.

Tried 4 pharmacies in Central Bangna last weekend, no luck. They all stock steroidal sprays only.

If anyone comes across this in Bangkok, I'd appreciate being told.

David. I'm looking in to the matter myself. I think there is one at Boots but haven't referenced it on the web yet. Will post if I find out more.

But I am finding out more and more that non allergenic reactions are not easy to treat by way of medicine. The only anti histamine which seems to come up as suitable is azelastine.

I've started zyrtec this week but can't say I notice much diff, but my nose is still very sore from latest attack anyway.

[moldy]

I did manage to identify a non-steroidal nasal spray on the web.

Brand name: NasalCrom,

Content: cromolyn sodium.

Tried 4 pharmacies in Central Bangna last weekend, no luck. They all stock steroidal sprays only.

If anyone comes across this in Bangkok, I'd appreciate being told.

David. I'm looking in to the matter myself. I think there is one at Boots but haven't referenced it on the web yet. Will post if I find out more.

But I am finding out more and more that non allergenic reactions are not easy to treat by way of medicine. The only anti histamine which seems to come up as suitable is azelastine.

I've started zyrtec this week but can't say I notice much diff, but my nose is still very sore from latest attack anyway.

But surely steroidal sprays are what is required David ??? Are you sure you are not getting mixed up with decongestant sprays which I agree should be avoided.

Steroid sprays don't seem to have side effects- that's what the splurge says anyway

I found fluticasone at Boots today - 895 bt. Anybody know of any more?