I Love Kat!

[Pepe']

There I've said it.

I got on too late to add my two cents to the recently closed thread.

Nobody is perfect.

Kat got the last shot and I just want to say I really think she tells it like it is.

That's why I love her...

[britmaveric]

Kat is adorable, intelligent and quite fetching if the truth be known!! Happy Valentines Day!!!

Edited February 14, 2008 by britmaveric

[Pepe']

Kat don't listen to him.

My love is deep and true.

Brit is well, just infatuated...

[mrt273nva]

don't people chew Kat in Yemen to get high? what is Kat in Thailand?

[Pepe']

I was going to say something but I won't.

How about "A nice memory."

[kat]

Hey! Happy Valentine's Day to you guys as well!!! Also adorable, brilliant, and the best of blokes. Both of you have made me laugh out loud on this forum, which is saying a lot. But, I have to warn you that this thread will not run very long, or be well received. But, I've never been a pop culture chick.

[kat]

While we are at it, I want to start an appreciation list of my own:

Britmaverick

Pepe'

SBK

Boo

Donna

Steveromagnino

DamianMavis

Andiamo

Bendix

Guesthouse

CDVic

Robski

Seonai

Suegha

Emperor Tud

Arkady

Claymore

Sabaijai

And a lot more ... the list will continue. Completely different people with a wide range of views which don't necessarily jibe with my own, but who I appreciate on the forum anyway. Life is more interesting with honest discussion, and honest discussion is not possible without open dissent.

Thanks you guys!!!

[Pepe']

Hey! Happy Valentine's Day to you guys as well!!! Also adorable, brilliant, and the best of blokes. Both of you have made me laugh out loud on this forum, which is saying a lot. But, I have to warn you that this thread will not run very long, or be well received. But, I've never been a pop culture chick.

-----------------------

My Dearest Kat,

Better to have posted and been shut down, then to never have posted at all...

[britmaveric]

Wow I made it on the top of the list!!!

[Pepe']

PISTOLS AT DAWN!

Uh water pistols OK...

[britmaveric]

PISTOLS AT DAWN!

Uh water pistols OK...

Songkran???

[kat]

Yes, you were at the fore of my mind.

There are so many more, too, in no particular order:

Sheryl

Samran

Ulysses (he's funny and good natured)

Kayo

Taxexile

Zaza

girlx

Golf !!!!

Amyji

Shola

Meadish Sweetball

Endure

Bina

and so many others.

I have not listed this in any particular order.

Thanks you guys!

[Pepe']

PISTOLS AT DAWN!

Uh water pistols OK...

Songkran???

--------------------

Don't try to postpone the inevitable...

[fletchsmile]

As anyone who has read most of my posts on Thai Visa will see I am not in the habit of having a go at western women on Thai Visa. I actually try to be supportive and I think they have a hard time here. The main reason for that is Thailand is a male denominated society which doesn't make it easy for women. This is not the fault of western males, though, and it is the way Thai society is.

To pre-empt the usual responsives. It's not that I'm think-skinned or have a chip on my shoulder. It's just simply how I see it, as a happily married guy with a Thai family, good job, having lived, worked, studied and travelled in Asia for over 10 years, and with a wide diversity of friends.

Sometimes these voices need to be heard on Thai Visa as well. Just because female western women are in the minority doesn't give you the right to put down the majority of Thai women and western men.

Kat,

As you believe: "Life is more interesting with honest discussion, and honest discussion is not possible without open dissent." Below is an honest opinion.

Your comments were simply rude and offensive. I appreciate you are unmarried, single, and struggled to make Thai female friends and had a hard time in Thailand, perhaps also from some of the western guys you met. This does not give you the right to just hit out unchallenged, with comments like:

"Many Thai women think western men behave and smell like animals"; "the overwhelming majority of western expats are past their prime and married to women 20 years or more younger"; "Thai women and western men's realtionship are skewed and abnormal"; "the overwhelmingly majority of Thai women are with western guys for money"

Of course there are some cases like this. To claim it to be the overwhelming majority is just ridiculous. It shows more about you trying to make the facts fit your views, than let the facts speak for themselves.

With the exception of sbk who closed the thread, and perhaps Seonai's joke, I thought none of the women on there came out very well, though I wouldn't go as far as some of the comments towards the end. It just showed an undercurrent of resentment of many women on Thai Visa towards western men, by "juxtaposing insults and tenuously linked facts"

Normally as I hinted I would walk away and ignore you. On this occasion as you seem to even enjoy basking in the limelight rather than offer an apology, I've decided not to walk away. I won't be adding anything else to this thread tho, and have no intention of debating it.

Edited February 15, 2008 by fletchsmile

[meom]

The main reason for that is Thailand is a male denominated society which doesn't make it easy for women. This is not the fault of western males, though, and it is the way Thai society is.

It's the other away around Fletch. It's the females that are often denominated because of men's domination

[Jockstar]

Yes, you were at the fore of my mind.

There are so many more, too, in no particular order:

Sheryl

Samran

Ulysses (he's funny and good natured)

Kayo

Taxexile

Zaza

girlx

Golf !!!!

Amyji

Shola

Meadish Sweetball

Endure

Bina

and so many others.

I have not listed this in any particular order.

Thanks you guys!

Where am I? :D

[Jai Dee]

Where am I? :D

I'm not there either Jockstar.

[Thaddeus]

Where am I? :D

I'm not there either Jockstar.

It does say 'and many others.....' and Kat is a busy girl

[submaniac]

Well I am kind of new here, but I hear Kat is a superfox. So I hope she had a fine vealentine's day!

[kat]

As anyone who has read most of my posts on Thai Visa will see I am not in the habit of having a go at western women on Thai Visa. I actually try to be supportive and I think they have a hard time here. The main reason for that is Thailand is a male denominated society which doesn't make it easy for women. This is not the fault of western males, though, and it is the way Thai society is.

To pre-empt the usual responsives. It's not that I'm think-skinned or have a chip on my shoulder. It's just simply how I see it, as a happily married guy with a Thai family, good job, having lived, worked, studied and travelled in Asia for over 10 years, and with a wide diversity of friends.

Sometimes these voices need to be heard on Thai Visa as well. Just because female western women are in the minority doesn't give you the right to put down the majority of Thai women and western men.

Kat,

As you believe: "Life is more interesting with honest discussion, and honest discussion is not possible without open dissent." Below is an honest opinion.

Your comments were simply rude and offensive. I appreciate you are unmarried, single, and struggled to make Thai female friends and had a hard time in Thailand, perhaps also from some of the western guys you met. This does not give you the right to just hit out unchallenged, with comments like:

"Many Thai women think western men behave and smell like animals"; "the overwhelming majority of western expats are past their prime and married to women 20 years or more younger"; "Thai women and western men's realtionship are skewed and abnormal"; "the overwhelmingly majority of Thai women are with western guys for money"

Of course there are some cases like this. To claim it to be the overwhelming majority is just ridiculous. It shows more about you trying to make the facts fit your views, than let the facts speak for themselves.

With the exception of sbk who closed the thread, and perhaps Seonai's joke, I thought none of the women on there came out very well, though I wouldn't go as far as some of the comments towards the end. It just showed an undercurrent of resentment of many women on Thai Visa towards western men, by "juxtaposing insults and tenuously linked facts"

Normally as I hinted I would walk away and ignore you. On this occasion as you seem to even enjoy basking in the limelight rather than offer an apology, I've decided not to walk away. I won't be adding anything else to this thread tho, and have no intention of debating it.

Well, if you have no intention of debating, then you really shouldn't be starting a witch hunt, either. I also did not start this thread, nor am I basking in any kind of limelight, but I'm certainly not cowering - is that the real cause for your concern?

If you want to debate or discuss my comments or past posts, you should at least make an attempt to either read them more carefully or not purposely distort them for your lazy scarecrow tactics. As it is, you've quoted all of them out of context, and fabricated two of them entirely. You are not even worth the effort of my prolonged attention, never mind my ire or serious rebuttal. If you want a rebuttal, have fun reading the rest of my past posts and get back to me, because it's all there. But, you will be tested, so do a better job of honestly quoting and representing what you find.

I have substantiated every point I have ever made on this forum to the point of ad nausea and bandwidth limits, and guys like you still crawl out of the ethers to condemn me for what many respected researchers, journalists, newspaper articles, and posters have already stated, because it has already been substantiated. There are facts behind your distorted, misquoted representation of my comments. I am tired of justifying and stating the same things over and over again, and defending my right to do so. If you don't like what you are hearing, perhaps you should look a little deeper within the issue rather than scapegoating someone who openly discusses them.

And, if you or others don't like rough comments about body odor or other unflattering opinions, then very simply refrain from making them and they won't be returned. But, if others want to play rough, don't start whining like a little girl when it does in fact get rough.

My points and the entire context of that thread will remain on that thread; feel free to read it again. If you wish or are capable of a real discussion, which I doubt, then I'm more than happy to participate. But, if you think you are going to intimidate me from participating in full and open discussion as it is defined here, you couldn't be more far off in your expectations. Not even an exit from Thaivisa would stop me.

The only thing that will change or stop me are facts, of which you have none, even in the simple task of quoting me.

[kat]

Yes, you were at the fore of my mind.

There are so many more, too, in no particular order:

Sheryl

Samran

Ulysses (he's funny and good natured)

Kayo

Taxexile

Zaza

girlx

Golf !!!!

Amyji

Shola

Meadish Sweetball

Endure

Bina

and so many others.

I have not listed this in any particular order.

Thanks you guys!

Where am I?

Where am I? :D

I'm not there either Jockstar.

Where am I? :

I'm not there either Jockstar.

It does say 'and many others.....' and Kat is a busy girl

I'm so sorry guys!!! I think I forgot to list one of my best friends on that list too, so please forgive me!!!

The nicest guy (Jai Dee), and the cutest Scottish accent - how could I forget???

And Thaddeus, we can be friends, right?

I also didn't mention Sriracha John and Cent (who is never on here, but I wish he was).

But, it is a continuous list.

[kat]

Well I am kind of new here, but I hear Kat is a superfox. So I hope she had a fine vealentine's day!

Wow - did you really hear that? Maybe I do have friends on this forum.

It's fine now - thanks Submaniac - you look and sound pretty interesting yourself.

I hope you stay around.

[steveromagnino]

She be fine.

She be opinionated.

She be a fan of the Kiwi.

Kat for President ;_0

Fletchsmile - if you cannot see for yourself that the many Thai woman-westerner man relationships are trainwrecks, then we clearly don't live in the same country.

I come from one of the exceptions; there are many exceptions; but let's not deny that the trainwrecks outnumber the successes.

Peace out.

[kat]

For the record:

I have always been open and honest on this forum. I discuss ideas, perceived imperfections and challenges including my own, my honest experiences in Thailand, things that I am unsure about, and things that I know. I am not trying to be perfect, only honest. That is usually not the easiest or even most pleasant way.

In spite of everything, I have met great people on this forum, including many foreign men who live in Thailand. Thanks to all of you who have thought it interesting or even worthy enough to discuss everything and nothing with me all this time. You guys have taught me a lot.

[kat]

She be fine.

She be opinionated.

She be a fan of the Kiwi.

Kat for President ;_0

Fletchsmile - if you cannot see for yourself that the many Thai woman-westerner man relationships are trainwrecks, then we clearly don't live in the same country.

I come from one of the exceptions; there are many exceptions; but let's not deny that the trainwrecks outnumber the successes.

Peace out.

Oh my gosh - Stevie-O - my favorite Kiwi, is an exception in soooo many ways.

[Thaddeus]

And Thaddeus, we can be friends, right?

Of course we can, I know that we have disagreed on a number of subjects........ it doesn't mean I don't like like you, and also respect you for that matter.

BTW Steve is spot on in his summation.

[kat]

Thanks so much. That's really generous of you. I look forward to getting to know you better.

BTW - I also forgot Pepe'!!! How on earth could I forget him????

Lots, and lots of people not listed.

[fletchsmile]

For the record, none of my comments are fabricated. They are all visible on the previous thread. I will let other people read as they see fit. The only comment not on the other thread was about your difficuly with making friends with Thai women. This can be referenced below, on the complete thread link or a couple of extracts for convenience. I appreciate I said I wouldn't post further, but sometimes clarifications are needed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...153014&st=0

Friendship Between Thai And Western Women - Experiences? by Kat

This is something that is important for a lot of people in Thailand, and especially women! For many if not most Western women, female friendship is very important. I would say that is true for all women, but that would be too general, because culture defines so many of the conditions of what is considered proper, normal, and even desirable. In a foreign country that is very male defined, that can exacerbate the experience of isolation for many foreign women.

How did you overcome this, or not?

I'd like to trade our experiences and observations about friendship between foreign women and Thai women in LOS. It would be interesting to hear it from all angles, including the Thai angle, the positive, the negative, the neutral. I'd just like to hear about our experiences, and collectivize them.

How has your experience of friendship been defined in LOS as a Western woman, or as a Thai woman with Western female friends?

Well, during my first couple of years there, I would've loved to find female friends like you, but it didn't happen. I found one promising person in the same UN office (another woman who trained me on the tech application), but I found it hard to maintain consistent contact with the cool Thai women I did find.

Oh well.

Thanks for your comments, rainx. It sheds light on why it is indeed so difficult. I think there is a growing category of people like you, who are more like Westerners in their thinking, but Thai as well. It was my hope to find a good Thai female friend like you, but it was very difficult. In my girl group, we were English, American, Filipina, and French. There was one mixed Thai-American woman from the states, who relocated like you, but she returned to the states to go to school.

Edited February 15, 2008 by fletchsmile

[kat]

Your comments quoting me from the Oversex and Overseas thread are completely out of context, at least one is completely misrepresented as to mean something else, another is fabricated, and this current slew of comments on friends means nothing. I mean, who gives a <deleted> that you are pulling this out, to prove what exactly, regarding anything that I've said????

Actually, I'm not even interested. If you read the thread of friends, you would realize that it is not an uncommon or singular experience on my part to meet genuine or longterm female friends in Thailand. And, I really wouldn't care if it was or wasn't if it was my genuine experience. But, you seem to have a penchant for distorting points completely out of context, so knock yourself out.

[Boo]

fletchsmile as you have included me in your comments to kat, please post (what you perceive to be) my rude & insulting comment to thai women or western men from that thread cause imo there were none, my replies were in relation to the term feminazi & my freinds having no interest in married expat / long term residents & sex tourists. So go ahead please try to squeeze an insult out them somewhere but fyi don't quote out of context or try to tel lme it is a "peceived" insult. Only a direct clear quote will be accepted.

thanks