Parental rights, custody

[shift99]

Hi all,

 

I'm aware that there are many discussions regarding this topic so if I'm required to remove this and post somewhere else, please let me know. I'm reaching out to seek some advice, recommendations.

 

My child is a Thai citizen while I'm not, and my child is living with his mother. My name is not on his birth cert but I have DNA done at the local hospital quite some time ago. I have been visiting my child every now and then and helping out with school fees and expenses. 

 

How hard is it for me to obtain parental rights or joint custody? (Assuming the only way is through court..)

 

I've read stories that even if the parent has managed to obtain parental rights/joint custody, it is difficult to enforce the agreement for visitation/access to my child and so on. Eg. The mother can deny my access or become "unavailable" when I go over to visit and each time I would have to go back to the court. There could be no end to it. Is that true? What can be done?

 

And if both parents could not arrive at an agreement, the court may decide on our behalf (ie visitation and amount of time i can spend with my child, child support, decisions etc.) which may be of a disadvantage to the foreign parent.

 

Do you guys have any recommendations for reputable law firms/lawyers to handle such cases?

 

Thank you in advanced..

[AreYouGerman]

The reality is, as you pointed it correctly out, who is going to enforce the agreement? Especially if it's in some rural village? You surely can bribe your way into getting the police to come with you a couple of times but that's the end of it. They won't drive 2h every time just for you. Losing in court might increase the chances of the mother being even more irresponsible.

 

Also there might be an issue to getting a visa in the first place. If you are under 50 yo, you basically can't get a visa anymore.

 

Best is to try to find somebody who can mediate. Maybe the mother's mother or an aunt or some other family who isn't hostile and interested in a positive outcome for the child. Paying off the hostage taker (the mother) with a monthly payment might increase your chances that she will cooperate.

[MangoKorat]

48 minutes ago, shift99 said:

I've read stories that even if the parent has managed to obtain parental rights/joint custody, it is difficult to enforce the agreement for visitation/access to my child and so on. Eg. The mother can deny my access or become "unavailable" when I go over to visit and each time I would have to go back to the court. There could be no end to it. Is that true? What can be done?

I can't help you much but I had some experience with Thai Family Courts many years ago.  As you probably know, the starting position in Thailand is that custody lies with the mother. However, to deny you reasonable access the mother would have to prove you are unfit.

 

That said, I found the Thai Family court to be very fair and they look dimly on a parent that denies access without good reason.  You need to speak to a decent lawyer but I'm pretty sure they will advise you that once a court registered access agreement is made, it can be enforced if access is denied or the mother becomes awkward in other ways. I can't be 100% on this but I don't think you would need to go to court each time you visit if access was denied.

 

I had a similar problem in the UK where previously agreed access was denied and I then went to court and obtained a court order.  The police would not get involved until there was a court order but after that they did and the order applied to all future visits, not just one.  I don't think the Thai system will be much different.

 

Be aware though, that in granting an access order, the court is likely to request an order for maintenance is made.

 

Regardless of the country, I would always recommend that access agreements are formal rather than just something agreed between each partner - people and circumstances change, as I learned to my cost.

 

As for a Thai lawyer, which part of Thailand are we talking about?

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, shift99 said:

I have been visiting my child every now and then

Before getting custody done, visit your child more often.

[rankric]

Helping out.....

[stupidfarang]

If you were married to her when the child was born that would help, not suggesting you marry her now. shift99 has goos advice, and keep calm and civil. Wish you all the best.

[john donson]

is the mother of your child hostile towards you ?

 

then forget about the child, pay nothing, find another woman...

 

yes, court and dna to prove you are the father... 

 

enforcement, this is thailand...   

 

going to court every time, LAWYERS will love you, as it will be easy money TO TRY , for you... with no guarantee...

 

[shift99]

Thanks all for the replies.

 

Yea, every now and then is in fact quite frequent, whenever I can.

 

The location is in Bangkok. I do heard that even if there's a court order and the mother continue to deny access, at the most we have to go back to the court and petition again. Each time it could take months to do so and it drags on and the same cycle can happen again. Not like after 3 times disobey court, the other parent will lose custody, occur penalty etc. At least that's what I think based on what I've observed from other's experiences and stories. I hope to be wrong. If anyone has been successful in this area please let me know. Actually, going to court is a last resort and it seems like there isn't any other options..

22 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I can't help you much but I had some experience with Thai Family Courts many years ago.  As you probably know, the starting position in Thailand is that custody lies with the mother. However, to deny you reasonable access the mother would have to prove you are unfit.

 

That said, I found the Thai Family court to be very fair and they look dimly on a parent that denies access without good reason.  You need to speak to a decent lawyer but I'm pretty sure they will advise you that once a court registered access agreement is made, it can be enforced if access is denied or the mother becomes awkward in other ways. I can't be 100% on this but I don't think you would need to go to court each time you visit if access was denied.

 

I had a similar problem in the UK where previously agreed access was denied and I then went to court and obtained a court order.  The police would not get involved until there was a court order but after that they did and the order applied to all future visits, not just one.  I don't think the Thai system will be much different.

 

Be aware though, that in granting an access order, the court is likely to request an order for maintenance is made.

 

Regardless of the country, I would always recommend that access agreements are formal rather than just something agreed between each partner - people and circumstances change, as I learned to my cost.

 

As for a Thai lawyer, which part of Thailand are we talking about?

 

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, shift99 said:

Actually, going to court is a last resort and it seems like there isn't any other options..

Based on past experience, I would make court my first resort, not last.  Much better when everything is in writing.

[jippytum]

I had joint custody of my child and agreed maintainance for upkeep school fees etc. following divorce. This meant nothing my ex had all the rights when push came to shove and my lawyers could  do nothing to help me. Thai mothers have all the legal support. 

Edited May 21 by jippytum
addition

[AustinRacing]

Does she depend on your financial support? If so, you may have a chip to bargain with. 

[Tailwagsdog]

Depending on your finances offer to pay her 500 to 1000 baht per day for every 24 hrs your child is with you. It may sound the opposite of everything you have heard but it does work. Don't pay for anything else.

It puts balance back into the custody arrangement. Thai women are only interested in money extraction from ex farang partners.

[Tailwagsdog]

...and furthermore

get your child a passport of your home country, this may require you to go on the birth certificate. Incentivise your ex with a holiday to your home country once your child has a passport.  Play fair, you can have an agreement stamped by the court you will not contest custody, so she won't fear you trying to keep the child overseas. Just develop a really good relationship with your child and become part of their life. They will grow up and realise they are your son or daughter.

[DTL2014]

Yes -just sorted this out myself. AAA legal services in bangkok did the paperwork .but i did have to pay travel expenses to koh samui twice.we had 4 mediation sessions and then a separation agreement was signed.Visitation can be detailed and its legally enforceable. i paid for her house lumpsum and do the maintenance monthly. good luck - and be fair is the advice i was given.we werent married ...

[shift99]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

 

She does not need to depend on me financially but i do share the load with her on school fees and expenses.

 

Going to court is the last resort when I say that its because I wanted to have her consensus to legitimize myself as a parent so that things are easier when I bring my child over to my country for holiday, plan stuff for him, and so on, without the intention to take my child away from her but I was rejected. And for my child's sake, I don't really want to traumatize my child and put him through the court process if possible. My relationship with my child has been very good and we are close until I've been denied access.

 

Referring to DTL2014's comment, would you mind sharing how is the agreement legally enforced if she continue to deny access even after agreement has been made? Is AAA referring to Advanced Adjusting Associates?