When You See A Thai And Farang Together, Is Your First Thought That They Are Romantically Involved?

[autonomous_unit]

Submaniac, I was going to say what you said earlier, but with another perspective. Maybe it would be worth asking your farang friend if you can find a way to bring it up comfortably... maybe you're just getting in the line of fire of the usual side looks or outright stares that we can get outside the main tourist areas. I used to get kind of stressed out about what people were thinking when they stared at my wife and I, but over time I had more outings by myself in these same places and realized the locals give me looks whether she's around or not...

[RueFang]

I think you are a very westernised Thai (because you think too much!) Out of interest, how long did/have you lived in the US?

When I see two men sitting together eating or having a drink I would never assume they were lovers unless they were acting overtly gay (as in touching each other or very effeminate). When I see a farang man or woman with a Thai of the opposite sex I sometimes jump to conclusions but it really does depend on the body language.

I wouldn't spare another thought of what others might think, you know the situation which is all that matters.

[trader1]

I think people do automatically assume certain relationships. My GF is 24 years younger than me and we live in Bangkok. She is Japanese, I am farang. Whenver she goes out alone Thai people always talk to her as if she were Japanese- as obviously she looks and dresses Japanese.

But when we are together they always address her as if she was Thai. She speaks no Thai whereas I do, yet they will always seek confirmation on any point from her.

Why do they do that? Simply because their imprinted stereotypes about young girls with older men (Thai and farang) is so strong that it overrules the other signs of Japaneseness that she has.

[rixalex]

Perhaps your assumption that any man who would wish to be in your company was "gay, certainly" has something to do with your difficulty in forging friendships with Thai men. Just a thought...

As i said, i openly admit to making assumptions, but the one you suggest, that any man who would wish to be in my company was gay, is certainly not one of them. I simply said that i found it difficult making friendships with Thai men. I also know for a fact that none of my Western male friends here have any deep friendships with Thai men. Based on that information, i tend to assume that a Thai man and a Western man together are gay, although circumstances might affect this.

Out of interest, how many Thai men do you know who you consider to be true friends Micksterbs (i'm assuming you are a big-nosed whitie like me - there i go assuming again!)? Go ahead and prove me wrong...

[RueFang]

Well, I am with Boo, I look at more factors than just two men (or whatever the combination may be) together. Interestingly, I see you stated in your OP that people look at you. Thai people? or Farang? If Thai, they are probably wondering where you are really from as generally it is possible to tell Western raised Thai people--different mannerisms etc. And as you said, people are nosy, so they could just be wondering what you have to talk about with the farang.

I completely agree with sbk here about Thais looking at you wondering where you are from and generally why you have a farang friend! Countless times when my Thai husband and I are out and about people stare intently at us (for one because it's quite rare to see a farang woman with a Thai man) but many times I think it is people trying to figure out where my husband is from. I find it so amusing when people (Thai) speak to him in English (happens all the time!) because they don't think he's Thai for some reason, and then when they find out he is Thai, they look at me trying to figure out the relationship. Very funny. When you see people you think are judging you and your friend, just give them a big smile and they'll probably be the one who ends up embarrassed.

[GuestHouse]

I think it depends largely on the context in which I meet people.

I'd like to say I accept each person as they are without preconception, but I do not and nor does anyone else. We all of us make very many judgements about people based on anything from where we meet them, through how they dress, speak and present themselves.

In Thailand where the predominance of relationships between westerners (particularly older male westerners) and Thais is rooted in what the Japanese refer to as the 'Water Trade' then of course people make assumptions and judgements.

As the OP graciously admits this is something that Thais themselves do to excess. So its not just foreigner making these assumptions and judgements.

What matters is how they respond to the assumptions and judgements they make and importantly as individuals how we ourselves react to being judged.

Now we could argue that this is a bad thing, and set about criticizing people for doing so. But I take the view that this is only one side of the coin.

On the flip side Thailand is full of people pretending they (and often their relationships) are something they are not.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GuestHouse

[sbk]

Well, I am with Boo, I look at more factors than just two men (or whatever the combination may be) together. Interestingly, I see you stated in your OP that people look at you. Thai people? or Farang? If Thai, they are probably wondering where you are really from as generally it is possible to tell Western raised Thai people--different mannerisms etc. And as you said, people are nosy, so they could just be wondering what you have to talk about with the farang.

I completely agree with sbk here about Thais looking at you wondering where you are from and generally why you have a farang friend! Countless times when my Thai husband and I are out and about people stare intently at us (for one because it's quite rare to see a farang woman with a Thai man) but many times I think it is people trying to figure out where my husband is from. I find it so amusing when people (Thai) speak to him in English (happens all the time!) because they don't think he's Thai for some reason, and then when they find out he is Thai, they look at me trying to figure out the relationship. Very funny. When you see people you think are judging you and your friend, just give them a big smile and they'll probably be the one who ends up embarrassed.

Ha! Sorry to hijack your thread here submaniac, but this is so true. I can't begin to even count the number of times that Thai people have spoken to my husband in English assuming he is Filipino or Malaysian. Or the time at the Chiang Mai night market with my parents when people assumed he was our tour guide (oh he was NOT amused by that one at all!).

It could just be they are wondering what you have to talk about with the farang. As has been said, not many Thai men have close friends with farang (for reasons discussed in other threads but mainly, I think, because most Thai people form their very closest friendships as children and tend not to trust those they meet later in life), so perhaps they wonder why you are friends with the farang.

Or it could be that they just can't figure you out at all

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I hate when people think of me as a prostitute.

And Scots wear no undies under the kilt either. Liquor is quicker Jocko.

[Boo]

Liquor is quicker Jocko

Thaivisa quote of the day??

[Neeranam]

I hate when people think of me as a prostitute.

And Scots wear no undies under the kilt either. Liquor is quicker Jocko.

Reminds me of a night in Drumnadrochit!

[popshirt]

Yes sweetchariot, you are also correct that not all thai's are involved with Farang's for money or payment. And I apologize if that did not come out. But there is a large portion who are, and I was specifically referring to those where there is a massive age difference of two decades or more. I have a hard time believing that a 20 year old woman or man, wants to be with someone in their 60's for 'love'. Not just in Thailand, but also with Anna Nicole Smith. I do not like the idea of anyone getting bought and sold for someone else's pleasure, and I in particularly do not like the idea of me being bought and sold for someone's pleasure.

I've never spoken to him about it. I think he gets the same idea, but it's just a weird subject that I don't think we want to talk about it. I also think that he is probably accustomed to the weird looks just because he is a farang, so he may have built up an immunity at this point. And I would also add, no I would not stop talking to him, or any other friend, on something so stupid. He's a good guy, and it's nice to have someone so local that you can talk to, and I'm not burning off a friend just because I get embarrased over something stupid.

I also wanted to add that the weird looks which made me want to post something about it. Because when you do notice peole looking at you, it does make you uncomfortable to draw unwanted attention. And Thailand is different than the West, so for those who don't notice this stuff, I think that that is the result of growing up in the West. But Thai culture, they do keep on eye on everyone, and everything.

Sub, I find your postings quite interesting. My boyfriend is an upper middle class (if there is such a thing) Thai, Chula graduate, etc. and he used to be concerned about what Thais thought about us as I am farang and older than he is. In fact, he did not want to go to some places with me lest he be seen as a prostitute. He doesn't care if anyone knows he is gay, but he is not a "money boy". He is over all that now, but I do know that some may think he is mine "for hire" which couldn't be farther from the truth......he has a great job and our relationship is one of equals except for the age difference.

And you are so correct in pointing out that Thais tend to be nosey and terribly inquisitive.

[howtoescape]

I presume in nearly all case they are rent boy and customer, as they most likely are.

Many farangs i meet with Thai wives also will tell you she was not a prostitute before they met, maybe they do this as they presume that most people are thinking this.

None of my friends who have English wives/gf's have ever confirmed to me she wasnt a prostitute.

[RueFang]

I can't begin to even count the number of times that Thai people have spoken to my husband in English assuming he is Filipino or Malaysian. Or the time at the Chiang Mai night market with my parents when people assumed he was our tour guide (oh he was NOT amused by that one at all!).

Yes, hubby has also been accused of being a tour guide (the police asked for his guide license in Khao San!! The look on their faces when I said in Thai that I was his wife was priceless )

I can't quite believe how many people automatically assume farang hanging out with a Thai are paying customers. Sometimes it's blatently obvious the woman is a hooker by her dress standard but apart from that, how can people jump to that conclusion about every mixed couple they see.

[steveromagnino]

I presume in nearly all case they are rent boy and customer, as they most likely are.

AS a part Thai, I get the knowing look and assumption from one group that 'ya mum must of been a hooker' etc etc. There used to a poster here called DJ Pat that certainly used to talk non stop about being from that group. In general, the people wililng to comment or do something ausually associated in some way with the sex industry - mostly as customers. Hence, that's about all they know.

To be honest, I think most of the people you should care about won't have the lack of manners to say or do anything until they make up their own minds.

Many people are closest racists/sexists/etc etc - as Guesthouse says we all have our preconceptions. Why not just get on with your life, and if someone is rude enough to deal directly with you, then deal with it then?

Otherwise, you will drive yourself bonkers worrying about it!

[soundman]

As one of four of five farang who live amongst a local population of about 50,000 Thai's, it is fairly normal to be the only farang at the table.

If everybody thought I was in a relationship with whoever I was seen with - I'd have 1000 girl & boyfriends.

So - no, my first thought is not whether they are romantically involved.

[soundman]

I presume in nearly all case they are rent boy and customer, as they most likely are.

AS a part Thai, I get the knowing look and assumption from one group that 'ya mum must of been a hooker' etc etc. There used to a poster here called DJ Pat that certainly used to talk non stop about being from that group. In general, the people wililng to comment or do something ausually associated in some way with the sex industry - mostly as customers. Hence, that's about all they know.

To be honest, I think most of the people you should care about won't have the lack of manners to say or do anything until they make up their own minds.

Many people are closest racists/sexists/etc etc - as Guesthouse says we all have our preconceptions. Why not just get on with your life, and if someone is rude enough to deal directly with you, then deal with it then?

Otherwise, you will drive yourself bonkers worrying about it!

Heard a new one the other day - "look GI" - take a guess....

I have one staff member who is "look kreung", looks 100% farang - however is 100% Thai, his father, a prominent engineer in Thailand twenty years ago, passed on only a few years after his birth.

Anyway, staff at an opposition company called him "look GI" one day, I over heard it, worked it out fairly quickly, became angry on behalf of my staff member from a racism point of view & proceeded to berate the staff member from another company.

My staff member comes over to me & asked me why I was getting worked up. I told him why. He calmly told me not to bother because the other guy was making himself look like an idiot.

So, while the "knowing look" may be out there - my guess is that comes only from a minority of Thai's who are generally jealous of something or other in the first place.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[howtoescape]

AS a part Thai, I get the knowing look and assumption from one group that 'ya mum must of been a hooker' etc etc. There used to a poster here called DJ Pat that certainly used to talk non stop about being from that group. In general, the people wililng to comment or do something ausually associated in some way with the sex industry - mostly as customers. Hence, that's about all they know.

To be honest, I think most of the people you should care about won't have the lack of manners to say or do anything until they make up their own minds.

Many people are closest racists/sexists/etc etc - as Guesthouse says we all have our preconceptions. Why not just get on with your life, and if someone is rude enough to deal directly with you, then deal with it then?

Otherwise, you will drive yourself bonkers worrying about it!

I really couldnt care less if people are gay/straight/bi/with a bar girl/boy or shag chickens, and yes when i go to thailand i go to the tourist parts so i do meet a lot of girls in that scene, i dont have preconceptions of them or any male there, however you obviously do after reading your post.

So yes in the places where i frequent, and if i was asked my opinion, when i see a farang male with a thai male then i would presume he is gay, just as when i see a farang male with a thai women i would presume it is his girlfriend/partner/wife, if she was Leu kreung then i may presume it was his daughter. Usually i wouldnt even think about it, though as someone on a forum has asked peoples opinions i thought i would give mine.

Just because i presume something about someone doesnt mean i think negatively or positively about them in any way.

Now please report me to the thought police for not thinking as is directed.

Edited February 15, 2008 by howtoescape

[GuestHouse]

Just because i presume something about someone doesnt mean i think negativly or positively about them in any way.

What - NEVER!

Please let's keep within the bounds of believability.

[mellow1]

I have pretty much stopped making assumptions, about what is going on as far as a relationships between Thais and Farangs. There are many varied forms of relationship to be found, this does not mean that at times I don't wonder about a particular scenario.

I have lived in the same town for close to 6yrs. and been visiting for more than 13yrs. The Thais know my wife, son, and myself, from at least observing us going through the motions of living our lives, many through various interactions. I have a nephew (Thai) whom I like very much, and whose company I really enjoy, he is in his mid 20's and I am in my mid 50's. Many times I will take him along with me on some sort of errand or especially if there is some sort of information that I want. He is quite good in English and has a sharp mind and nice to have conversations with. One day after such an excursion I took him for lunch at a Farang restaurant for hamburger and fries, which we both like. Most of the Farangs I don't know, and the restaurant is fairly recent addition in town. I got some very strange and weird looks and vibes from the Farangs, and quickly came to the conclusion that they perceived my nephew and I to be a gay couple of some sort. It was an odd feeling, and I never mentioned it to my nephew, not wanting him to be uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable with the situation even though I have nothing against gay people. But it sure felt weird and unpleasant the vibes I was getting during that lunch.

[britmaveric]

Don't know them, so chances are I might get it wrong. So be honest I dont think too much about it, nor do I care who is with who.

[seonai]

I am a white female and my son is half Thai and looks Thai and is nearly the same height as me - we often give each other a hug or hold hands while out and we get some VERY weird looks

[Maigo6]

On the flip side Thailand is full of people pretending they (and often their relationships) are something they are not.

Internet Forums are a bit like that too.

[Andiamo]

I think it depends largely on the context in which I meet people.

I'd like to say I accept each person as they are without preconception, but I do not and nor does anyone else. We all of us make very many judgements about people based on anything from where we meet them, through how they dress, speak and present themselves.

In Thailand where the predominance of relationships between westerners (particularly older male westerners) and Thais is rooted in what the Japanese refer to as the 'Water Trade' then of course people make assumptions and judgements.

As the OP graciously admits this is something that Thais themselves do to excess. So its not just foreigner making these assumptions and judgements.

What matters is how they respond to the assumptions and judgements they make and importantly as individuals how we ourselves react to being judged.

Now we could argue that this is a bad thing, and set about criticizing people for doing so. But I take the view that this is only one side of the coin.

On the flip side Thailand is full of people pretending they (and often their relationships) are something they are not.

Totally agree with the bolded section above by GH.

Although, in some cases, it is hard NOT to jump to conclusions when e.g. older male foreigners get on the skytrain at Nana with girls who are dressed in (night/going out/skimpy clothes) and/or touch them inappropriately in public view in the middle of the day.....

Or the guy/s is/are talking (invariably loudly) to the girl/s with them and asking questions and the girl has obviously not understood and either doesn't understand the question or just says something completely out of context!

Conversely, you can also see this with older male foreigners and younger Thai guys. (Although generally not getting on at Nana...)

Or on the evening/night skytrain going from Siam to Silom, you see male foreigners starting up chats with good looking Thai guys.. In this type of situation, you can usually read the environment, sometimes even hear the conversation, see the body language, clothing etc.

So, to sum up, it depends on how overt peoples behaviour is too. With the examples given above, Yes, I would tend to think they are romantically involved. However, whether it is for a "Short time" or a "Long time", I wouldn't like to hazard a guess!

To the OP, if you are chatting and not touching etc, I would ignore others and just get on with your conversation with your friend. Life is too short!

Edited February 15, 2008 by Andiamo

[Joints]

Personally, I wouldn't waste a thought on two total strangers.

I've heard this claim from a lot of people on this forum, who would have you believe they are living in some sort of a saintly bubble, and that they are above making any assumptions or judgements on those around us. Being curious (some might call it being nosey) about other people's lives is in my view a natural and instinctive characteristic that makes us human. Also, reaching certain conclusions based on what you see but without having any proof, is pefectly normal and completely harmless unless you start acting negatively on those thoughts.

To the question in hand, absolutely yes, if i see a Thai man and a Western man together, i would assume that they were lovers, unless there was obvious evidence to the contrary. For example, if i saw these two men dressed in suits, i would think they were purely businessmen. On the other hand, if i saw these two men casually dressed and bowling together, i would definetely be thinking that their relationship was one of more than friendship, although that doesn't mean to say i would assume the Thai to be a prostitute. But gay, certainly yes. Maybe this has something to do with my own experience of finding it hard to forge friendships with Thai guys, so i assume the same to be true for other Western guys.

Making assumptions might not be politically correct, but just like farting, we all do it, just some don't admit to it.

That, is a very good post! My feelings exactly.

[steveromagnino]

So, while the "knowing look" may be out there - my guess is that comes only from a minority of Thai's who are generally jealous of something or other in the first place.

Agree with your points...the knowing look and then sometimes pidgeon english (assuming I cannot speak english) is almost always coming from a white face, not a Thai one....

most of the Thai people I associate with either assume I am 1/2 Thai and keep their opinions of how it happened quiet (maybe they think I am, but they are too polite to say anything) or assume I am a farang and treat me as such.

'I really couldnt care less if people are gay/straight/bi/with a bar girl/boy or shag chickens, and yes when i go to thailand i go to the tourist parts so i do meet a lot of girls in that scene, i dont have preconceptions of them or any male there, however you obviously do after reading your post.'

To be honest I am totally confused at your reply, maybe you didn't mean to quote me; my only point is that in those areas, the customers who hang out with girls (and guys) of that scene tend to be the only ones willing to comment on where I might have come from...rest of people tend to not care or keep their mouths shut.

No doubt plenty of them think poorly of me, as do most people in the world, but if they don't say or do anything, then I simply am unaware.

Personally couldn't care less what most people think of me outside of work.

[pop_corn]

do you look gay? if you do, then YES.

[soundman]

No doubt plenty of them think poorly of me, as do most people in the world, but if they don't say or do anything, then I simply am unaware.

Personally couldn't care less what most people think of me outside of work.

My guess is you are off the mark here Steve.

As you are allready aware, I cruise in fairly similar circles & from the impression I get of the higher echalons of Thai soceity, I think the many are more likely a few with loud voices & low self esteem looking to garner "charachter building" points in front of "apparent" friends, & mostly those few are people one couldn't care less about anyway. They very rarely hold the keys to what one wants to achieve through business, work etc. The guy authorising the bill is a usually a little smarter than allowing a small predjudice to get in the way of progress.

Flipside of the coin - those with the open minds (the majority of those who have actually made the money in the first place) do expect to see the runs on the board before one is admitted to the club, so to speak.

As for what people think of me - couldn't give a rats unless it affects my business or family.

Cheers man.

[micksterbs]

Perhaps your assumption that any man who would wish to be in your company was "gay, certainly" has something to do with your difficulty in forging friendships with Thai men. Just a thought...

As i said, i openly admit to making assumptions, but the one you suggest, that any man who would wish to be in my company was gay, is certainly not one of them. I simply said that i found it difficult making friendships with Thai men. I also know for a fact that none of my Western male friends here have any deep friendships with Thai men. Based on that information, i tend to assume that a Thai man and a Western man together are gay, although circumstances might affect this.

Out of interest, how many Thai men do you know who you consider to be true friends Micksterbs (i'm assuming you are a big-nosed whitie like me - there i go assuming again!)? Go ahead and prove me wrong...

Rixalex, I don't want us to trip each other up, but I was merely referring to your comment that if you saw a Thai man and a Western man together, you would assume they were gay, certainly. Ergo, that would apply to any Thai man in your company; you could reasonably assume, by your standards, that others would assume you both to be gay. Was just thinking that it might affect your friendships with Thai men.

As for me, reasonably big-nosed whitie, yep! No, I can't say any of them are real bosom-buddies, no. Just see them for a jar now and then. But that's not because I'm worrying about what strangers are thinking; more like my rubbish command of the Thai language...

[micksterbs]

Of course, Rixalex, if I lived in BKK too, maybe I would think along the same lines as you. I live in a small town in the middle of Isan and, to the best of my knowledge, am the only Westerner around. Therefore I'm not exposed to prostitution here, male or female.

[intumult]

Well, I have been clubbing a lot with one Thai mate in particular over the last few months and as far as I can see no-one has been giving us funny looks.

In fact, I have had 2 serious attempts at tapping me up, from females and one succeeded enough to be taken out a few times, the other one did nothing for me.

So, I suppose it boils down to the minds of the people in question and no, I don't automatically think that any 2 people together are neccesarily 'involved'.