Time To Put The "thai University Degrees Are Worthless" Generalization To Bed...

[jbowman1993]

This one gets trotted out almost every single thread. There are no facts or sources to support this statement, and unless some are provided (which, up until this point, they haven't been) I am going to have to tune you out.

I teach at the largest university in Thailand, in the largest music program in SE Asia. I have had 5 students (in my own area) graduate in the past 3 years and go on to do master's work in the US, all with full scholarships. All are excelling in their studies in the US (some have had to take some special intensive english courses before being admitted, to be able to cope with american university graduate paperwriting english) and they are on track to graduate. In addition to my own students, there have been many others from my department who are also in the US and Europe pursuing advanced degrees.

I make no claims at representing all Thai universities, but at mine, things are getting done at an international level, and its insulting to me to have ignorant posters claim otherwise. I take it personally because I give everything to my students, and my students here in Thailand respond with some of the most disciplined hard work and dedication I've ever encountered. I certainly never saw it (consistently) when teaching at this level in the US.

So, this generalization pisses me off, and I want everyone to know about it. Not everything is as bad as many of you make it out to be...

Edited February 24, 2008 by jbowman1993

[Prakanong]

Well five students out of how many is not exactly statistically relevant

Well got that out of the way - the Thai's I work with all have degree's that a major international firm think are good enough - two of them (women in mid-20's) have recently transferred to Europe HQ and I and everyone else would say they are both doing very very well (one of them is absolutely excelling)

All of the rest still working in Thailand seem to be doing OK - while working on an international level in their second language.

All of them bar one (1st class degree in Pharmacy though) though has an international degree of some kind - either straight oversea's for undergrad or undergrad at a Thai Uni then oversea's for MSc.

Over the past few years I must have encountered 20+ in this position in our company.

Does not prove much either way though - we say we need an oversea's degree in an native English language country for the English skills (others say its the social and cultural skills too). Those that have gone on to a MSc or so after Thai undergrad show they can pass.

The Thai's certainly hold their own in our company in Asia -

Maybe its a bit like the British that denigrate most USA undergrad degree's for their lack of specialization?

[jbowman1993]

Well five students out of how many is not exactly statistically relevant

True, but its the only one I have to work with...

[PeaceBlondie]

There's the rub: our own anecdotes about performing musicians and pharmacology post graduates (and mine about the English graduate from CMU) are anecdotes that may not be typical at all. Also, university rankings based on the publications of their tenured faculty do not indicate the competence of students earning bachelor degrees.

If there is no standard, no generally accepted method of valuing the degrees granted by a hundred Thai unis, we are left with what little we know about the few whom we know.

[aussiestyle1983]

This one gets trotted out almost every single thread. There are no facts or sources to support this statement, and unless some are provided (which, up until this point, they haven't been) I am going to have to tune you out.

I teach at the largest university in Thailand, in the largest music program in SE Asia. I have had 5 students (in my own area) graduate in the past 3 years and go on to do master's work in the US, all with full scholarships. All are excelling in their studies in the US (some have had to take some special intensive english courses before being admitted, to be able to cope with american university graduate paperwriting english) and they are on track to graduate. In addition to my own students, there have been many others from my department who are also in the US and Europe pursuing advanced degrees.

I make no claims at representing all Thai universities, but at mine, things are getting done at an international level, and its insulting to me to have ignorant posters claim otherwise. I take it personally because I give everything to my students, and my students here in Thailand respond with some of the most disciplined hard work and dedication I've ever encountered. I certainly never saw it (consistently) when teaching at this level in the US.

So, this generalization pisses me off, and I want everyone to know about it. Not everything is as bad as many of you make it out to be...

There might be no facts to proove the opposite of the claim that you are making, but as everyone knows, things in Thailand are not usually done according to the rules or laws, which are facts. Having said that, you are correct, it is hard to proove that Thai degrees are useless, but, it's even harder to proove that they are not. My point, it might not be fact or written into the students handbooks that most students in Thai universities get a pass or at least buy a pass, but everyone is well aware of the fail proof system that more than some of the universities seem to apply. As they say, "pay your money and you'll get a degree". People with no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai education system might believe you, but those in the know won't.

There are a few top universities in Thailand, I mean comparable to half decent western universities. You might work at the best. But having five students get full scholarships really means nothing at the end of the day. Also, everyone knows that you can basically get accepted into a western university with any undergraduate degree. That does not further the credibility of the Thai degree. Some universities even let you go onto post grad study without a bachelors. So I doubt it would be very hard to get into a masters course in any uni with a Thai degree. Did your students get into Harvard? I don't think so. Even so, who really cares, because at the end of the day, most people get degrees to get a better job, and if an employer will take a western degree over a Thai degree, what another university thinks of a Thai degree is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but using a few students as evidence to support your claim is very weak and might only even be hear say. I agree that it would be hard to be a good teacher at a good university and because of the bad reputation of other universities that you fall into a bad catagory when Thai degrees are talked about. Thailand needs more good teachers like you.

[jbowman1993]

There's the rub: our own anecdotes about performing musicians and pharmacology post graduates (and mine about the English graduate from CMU) are anecdotes that may not be typical at all. Also, university rankings based on the publications of their tenured faculty do not indicate the competence of students earning bachelor degrees.

If there is no standard, no generally accepted method of valuing the degrees granted by a hundred Thai unis, we are left with what little we know about the few whom we know.

But you could make that argument in a larger scope as well, i.e. there is no standard or generally accepted method of valuing degrees at any university. If you are thinking about those world rankings, we've had that discussion already in another thread, and shown that they they also have a bias and tend to be slanted towards english-speaking countries.

I'm not saying that Thai universities don't need serious improvements, what I am saying is that its not all a bad, black, bleak pit of misery and ineptness that many people make it out to be. I'm not the only quality teacher producing quality graduates in the Thai university system. What I want to emphasis is that when people dam_n the whole system, you are damning me and my contributions (as guilty by association), and I don't like that one bit. We can have a discussion about the faults and flaws without resorting to broad, inaccurate, generalizations.

(In regard to those rankings, that are full of bias, Mahidol University had the largest jump in the rankings of any school in the world last year, moving from 322 (2006) to 284 (2007). Look for that trend to continue).

[jbowman1993]

This one gets trotted out almost every single thread. There are no facts or sources to support this statement, and unless some are provided (which, up until this point, they haven't been) I am going to have to tune you out.

I teach at the largest university in Thailand, in the largest music program in SE Asia. I have had 5 students (in my own area) graduate in the past 3 years and go on to do master's work in the US, all with full scholarships. All are excelling in their studies in the US (some have had to take some special intensive english courses before being admitted, to be able to cope with american university graduate paperwriting english) and they are on track to graduate. In addition to my own students, there have been many others from my department who are also in the US and Europe pursuing advanced degrees.

I make no claims at representing all Thai universities, but at mine, things are getting done at an international level, and its insulting to me to have ignorant posters claim otherwise. I take it personally because I give everything to my students, and my students here in Thailand respond with some of the most disciplined hard work and dedication I've ever encountered. I certainly never saw it (consistently) when teaching at this level in the US.

So, this generalization pisses me off, and I want everyone to know about it. Not everything is as bad as many of you make it out to be...

There might be no facts to proove the opposite of the claim that you are making, but as everyone knows, things in Thailand are not usually done according to the rules or laws, which are facts. Having said that, you are correct, it is hard to proove that Thai degrees are useless, but, it's even harder to proove that they are not. My point, it might not be fact or written into the students handbooks that most students in Thai universities get a pass or at least buy a pass, but everyone is well aware of the fail proof system that more than some of the universities seem to apply. As they say, "pay your money and you'll get a degree". People with no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai education system might believe you, but those in the know won't.

There are a few top universities in Thailand, I mean comparable to half decent western universities. You might work at the best. But having five students get full scholarships really means nothing at the end of the day. Also, everyone knows that you can basically get accepted into a western university with any undergraduate degree. That does not further the credibility of the Thai degree. Some universities even let you go onto post grad study without a bachelors. So I doubt it would be very hard to get into a masters course in any uni with a Thai degree. Did your students get into Harvard? I don't think so. Even so, who really cares, because at the end of the day, most people get degrees to get a better job, and if an employer will take a western degree over a Thai degree, what another university thinks of a Thai degree is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but using a few students as evidence to support your claim is very weak and might only even be hear say. I agree that it would be hard to be a good teacher at a good university and because of the bad reputation of other universities that you fall into a bad catagory when Thai degrees are talked about. Thailand needs more good teachers like you.

As the saying goes, "With friends like you, who needs enemies."

With regard to the Harvard comment - they would never even have thought to apply there, because Harvard does not have an applied music department, only musicology (or music history for you non academic types). They did get into Juilliard, Eastman, Northwestern, USC, and U of Oklahoma. If you want to argue the merits of those university's music programs with me, I'd welcome it...

Its this statement "If an employer...Over a Thai degree" that I hear over and over again. And yet I have never had anyone give me any concrete evidence to support this claim. Its a belief, that many hold. I challenge you do provide evidence to back up this belief, then we can start to have a good discussion on this issue.

Edited February 25, 2008 by jbowman1993

[aussiestyle1983]

This one gets trotted out almost every single thread. There are no facts or sources to support this statement, and unless some are provided (which, up until this point, they haven't been) I am going to have to tune you out.

I teach at the largest university in Thailand, in the largest music program in SE Asia. I have had 5 students (in my own area) graduate in the past 3 years and go on to do master's work in the US, all with full scholarships. All are excelling in their studies in the US (some have had to take some special intensive english courses before being admitted, to be able to cope with american university graduate paperwriting english) and they are on track to graduate. In addition to my own students, there have been many others from my department who are also in the US and Europe pursuing advanced degrees.

I make no claims at representing all Thai universities, but at mine, things are getting done at an international level, and its insulting to me to have ignorant posters claim otherwise. I take it personally because I give everything to my students, and my students here in Thailand respond with some of the most disciplined hard work and dedication I've ever encountered. I certainly never saw it (consistently) when teaching at this level in the US.

So, this generalization pisses me off, and I want everyone to know about it. Not everything is as bad as many of you make it out to be...

There might be no facts to proove the opposite of the claim that you are making, but as everyone knows, things in Thailand are not usually done according to the rules or laws, which are facts. Having said that, you are correct, it is hard to proove that Thai degrees are useless, but, it's even harder to proove that they are not. My point, it might not be fact or written into the students handbooks that most students in Thai universities get a pass or at least buy a pass, but everyone is well aware of the fail proof system that more than some of the universities seem to apply. As they say, "pay your money and you'll get a degree". People with no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai education system might believe you, but those in the know won't.

There are a few top universities in Thailand, I mean comparable to half decent western universities. You might work at the best. But having five students get full scholarships really means nothing at the end of the day. Also, everyone knows that you can basically get accepted into a western university with any undergraduate degree. That does not further the credibility of the Thai degree. Some universities even let you go onto post grad study without a bachelors. So I doubt it would be very hard to get into a masters course in any uni with a Thai degree. Did your students get into Harvard? I don't think so. Even so, who really cares, because at the end of the day, most people get degrees to get a better job, and if an employer will take a western degree over a Thai degree, what another university thinks of a Thai degree is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but using a few students as evidence to support your claim is very weak and might only even be hear say. I agree that it would be hard to be a good teacher at a good university and because of the bad reputation of other universities that you fall into a bad catagory when Thai degrees are talked about. Thailand needs more good teachers like you.

As the saying goes, "With friends like you, who needs enemies."

With regard to the Harvard comment - they would never even have thought to apply there, because Harvard does not have an applied music department, only musicology (or music history for you non academic types). They did get into Juilliard, Eastman, Northwestern, USC, and U of Oklahoma. If you want to argue the merits of those university's music programs with me, I'd welcome it...

Its this statement "If an employer...Over a Thai degree" that I hear over and over again. And yet I have never had anyone give me any concrete evidence to support this claim. Its a belief, that many hold. I challenge you do provide evidence to back up this belief, then we can start to have a good discussion on this issue.

I was not just only referring to Harvard, I was just trying to point out that unless these student got into Ivy League (if that's what they're called) universities, that would be a very good sign of the quality of some Thai degrees. But, since they only got into your typical American University, I don't think that adds any credibility to Thai degrees. As I mentioned beofre, a lot of western universities accept people into post grad programs without bachelors to begin with.

In regards to the employer issue, I've known people to get knocked back from jobs due to someone having a degree from a higher ranked university. I've also known many Indian master degree holders to come to Australia and have to do their whole Bachelors degree again, because they couldn't get a job here with an Indian degree. I know you are referring to Thai degrees, but the principal is the same. It might be different in the USA, Thai degrees might by highly regarded, but you can't make good claims about the Thai degree just because of how they have been accepted in one country. The USA is just one of many places in the world where Thais take their degrees to find work.

[Murf]

At the end of the day........

[jbowman1993]

This one gets trotted out almost every single thread. There are no facts or sources to support this statement, and unless some are provided (which, up until this point, they haven't been) I am going to have to tune you out.

I teach at the largest university in Thailand, in the largest music program in SE Asia. I have had 5 students (in my own area) graduate in the past 3 years and go on to do master's work in the US, all with full scholarships. All are excelling in their studies in the US (some have had to take some special intensive english courses before being admitted, to be able to cope with american university graduate paperwriting english) and they are on track to graduate. In addition to my own students, there have been many others from my department who are also in the US and Europe pursuing advanced degrees.

I make no claims at representing all Thai universities, but at mine, things are getting done at an international level, and its insulting to me to have ignorant posters claim otherwise. I take it personally because I give everything to my students, and my students here in Thailand respond with some of the most disciplined hard work and dedication I've ever encountered. I certainly never saw it (consistently) when teaching at this level in the US.

So, this generalization pisses me off, and I want everyone to know about it. Not everything is as bad as many of you make it out to be...

There might be no facts to proove the opposite of the claim that you are making, but as everyone knows, things in Thailand are not usually done according to the rules or laws, which are facts. Having said that, you are correct, it is hard to proove that Thai degrees are useless, but, it's even harder to proove that they are not. My point, it might not be fact or written into the students handbooks that most students in Thai universities get a pass or at least buy a pass, but everyone is well aware of the fail proof system that more than some of the universities seem to apply. As they say, "pay your money and you'll get a degree". People with no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai education system might believe you, but those in the know won't.

There are a few top universities in Thailand, I mean comparable to half decent western universities. You might work at the best. But having five students get full scholarships really means nothing at the end of the day. Also, everyone knows that you can basically get accepted into a western university with any undergraduate degree. That does not further the credibility of the Thai degree. Some universities even let you go onto post grad study without a bachelors. So I doubt it would be very hard to get into a masters course in any uni with a Thai degree. Did your students get into Harvard? I don't think so. Even so, who really cares, because at the end of the day, most people get degrees to get a better job, and if an employer will take a western degree over a Thai degree, what another university thinks of a Thai degree is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but using a few students as evidence to support your claim is very weak and might only even be hear say. I agree that it would be hard to be a good teacher at a good university and because of the bad reputation of other universities that you fall into a bad catagory when Thai degrees are talked about. Thailand needs more good teachers like you.

As the saying goes, "With friends like you, who needs enemies."

With regard to the Harvard comment - they would never even have thought to apply there, because Harvard does not have an applied music department, only musicology (or music history for you non academic types). They did get into Juilliard, Eastman, Northwestern, USC, and U of Oklahoma. If you want to argue the merits of those university's music programs with me, I'd welcome it...

Its this statement "If an employer...Over a Thai degree" that I hear over and over again. And yet I have never had anyone give me any concrete evidence to support this claim. Its a belief, that many hold. I challenge you do provide evidence to back up this belief, then we can start to have a good discussion on this issue.

I was not just only referring to Harvard, I was just trying to point out that unless these student got into Ivy League (if that's what they're called) universities, that would be a very good sign of the quality of some Thai degrees. But, since they only got into your typical American University, I don't think that adds any credibility to Thai degrees. As I mentioned beofre, a lot of western universities accept people into post grad programs without bachelors to begin with.

In regards to the employer issue, I've known people to get knocked back from jobs due to someone having a degree from a higher ranked university. I've also known many Indian master degree holders to come to Australia and have to do their whole Bachelors degree again, because they couldn't get a job here with an Indian degree. I know you are referring to Thai degrees, but the principal is the same. It might be different in the USA, Thai degrees might by highly regarded, but you can't make good claims about the Thai degree just because of how they have been accepted in one country. The USA is just one of many places in the world where Thais take their degrees to find work.

lol None of the Ivy League Schools are ranked in the top 50 music school programs (US News and WR).

Juilliard - #1, Eastman #2, Northwestern #5, USC #16, Oklahoma # 24 Maybe time to stop while you're ahead on this particular issue.

2nd - You seem to be missing my point, regarding employer issues. I am not arguing that Thai universities don't have serious issues that need to be addressed. Many of them certainly do. What I am saying is that its not true 100% of the time. Thats my entire point. I am not asking people to stop discussing the issue. I'm just asking that people refrain from using "Absolute" terms when they do bring up the topic.

If a person continues to argue that "ALL" Thai universities are horrible, I think they need to be able to back up their point with some documented evidence.

[aussiestyle1983]

This one gets trotted out almost every single thread. There are no facts or sources to support this statement, and unless some are provided (which, up until this point, they haven't been) I am going to have to tune you out.

I teach at the largest university in Thailand, in the largest music program in SE Asia. I have had 5 students (in my own area) graduate in the past 3 years and go on to do master's work in the US, all with full scholarships. All are excelling in their studies in the US (some have had to take some special intensive english courses before being admitted, to be able to cope with american university graduate paperwriting english) and they are on track to graduate. In addition to my own students, there have been many others from my department who are also in the US and Europe pursuing advanced degrees.

I make no claims at representing all Thai universities, but at mine, things are getting done at an international level, and its insulting to me to have ignorant posters claim otherwise. I take it personally because I give everything to my students, and my students here in Thailand respond with some of the most disciplined hard work and dedication I've ever encountered. I certainly never saw it (consistently) when teaching at this level in the US.

So, this generalization pisses me off, and I want everyone to know about it. Not everything is as bad as many of you make it out to be...

There might be no facts to proove the opposite of the claim that you are making, but as everyone knows, things in Thailand are not usually done according to the rules or laws, which are facts. Having said that, you are correct, it is hard to proove that Thai degrees are useless, but, it's even harder to proove that they are not. My point, it might not be fact or written into the students handbooks that most students in Thai universities get a pass or at least buy a pass, but everyone is well aware of the fail proof system that more than some of the universities seem to apply. As they say, "pay your money and you'll get a degree". People with no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai education system might believe you, but those in the know won't.

There are a few top universities in Thailand, I mean comparable to half decent western universities. You might work at the best. But having five students get full scholarships really means nothing at the end of the day. Also, everyone knows that you can basically get accepted into a western university with any undergraduate degree. That does not further the credibility of the Thai degree. Some universities even let you go onto post grad study without a bachelors. So I doubt it would be very hard to get into a masters course in any uni with a Thai degree. Did your students get into Harvard? I don't think so. Even so, who really cares, because at the end of the day, most people get degrees to get a better job, and if an employer will take a western degree over a Thai degree, what another university thinks of a Thai degree is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but using a few students as evidence to support your claim is very weak and might only even be hear say. I agree that it would be hard to be a good teacher at a good university and because of the bad reputation of other universities that you fall into a bad catagory when Thai degrees are talked about. Thailand needs more good teachers like you.

As the saying goes, "With friends like you, who needs enemies."

With regard to the Harvard comment - they would never even have thought to apply there, because Harvard does not have an applied music department, only musicology (or music history for you non academic types). They did get into Juilliard, Eastman, Northwestern, USC, and U of Oklahoma. If you want to argue the merits of those university's music programs with me, I'd welcome it...

Its this statement "If an employer...Over a Thai degree" that I hear over and over again. And yet I have never had anyone give me any concrete evidence to support this claim. Its a belief, that many hold. I challenge you do provide evidence to back up this belief, then we can start to have a good discussion on this issue.

I was not just only referring to Harvard, I was just trying to point out that unless these student got into Ivy League (if that's what they're called) universities, that would be a very good sign of the quality of some Thai degrees. But, since they only got into your typical American University, I don't think that adds any credibility to Thai degrees. As I mentioned beofre, a lot of western universities accept people into post grad programs without bachelors to begin with.

In regards to the employer issue, I've known people to get knocked back from jobs due to someone having a degree from a higher ranked university. I've also known many Indian master degree holders to come to Australia and have to do their whole Bachelors degree again, because they couldn't get a job here with an Indian degree. I know you are referring to Thai degrees, but the principal is the same. It might be different in the USA, Thai degrees might by highly regarded, but you can't make good claims about the Thai degree just because of how they have been accepted in one country. The USA is just one of many places in the world where Thais take their degrees to find work.

lol None of the Ivy League Schools are ranked in the top 50 music school programs (US News and WR).

Juilliard - #1, Eastman #2, Northwestern #5, USC #16, Oklahoma # 24 Maybe time to stop while you're ahead on this particular issue.

2nd - You seem to be missing my point, regarding employer issues. I am not arguing that Thai universities don't have serious issues that need to be addressed. Many of them certainly do. What I am saying is that its not true 100% of the time. Thats my entire point. I am not asking people to stop discussing the issue. I'm just asking that people refrain from using "Absolute" terms when they do bring up the topic.

If a person continues to argue that "ALL" Thai universities are horrible, I think they need to be able to back up their point with some documented evidence.

Would you happen to work at Mahidol?

I actually agree with this "If a person continues to argue that "ALL" Thai universities are horrible, I think they need to be able to back up their point with some documented evidence." Having said that, If you cahnged the world ALL Thai universities to MOST Thai universities, well, then you'd lose my support

Anyway, where is Juilliard & Eastman? I've never heard of them? And, what source did you obtain those rankings from? Like you say, you need to "back it up"

[KhaoNiaw]

People also often seem to want to compare your average Thai university with top-ranked universities in the west.

Having taught in a private university in Thailand for a good number of years, I've seen literally dozens of Thai students go to take higher degrees in the US, UK and Australia. They seem to manage quite well, though of course none have gone to top-ranking institutions (and that was never their intention in the first place).

[haltes]

Not all Thai students do their own work while they are studying abroad in any case

Also some are given courtesy passes to keep the self perpetuating money generating educational system that is our university system running. It 's all about bums on seats!

[aussiestyle1983]

Not all Thai students do their own work while they are studying abroad in any case

Also some are given courtesy passes to keep the self perpetuating money generating educational system that is our university system running. It 's all about bums on seats!

You'd better be able to back that up or the OP might try to debate it LOL

I agree with you anyway. I'm sure a lot of Thai students, especially the mini-skirt wearing girlies could make an offer that some guys would be un-able to refuse for academic assistance. The emotion you used- would pretty much describe their face whilst doing so as well

Edited February 25, 2008 by aussiestyle1983

[haltes]

I have written "model answers" for Thai students studying abroad as well as the odd "model thesis" here and there..... oh and for Thai students studying in universities in Thailand.

I also know a few other people here both Thai and foreign that have done the same. It certainly pays well and we are not breaking the law, it is up to the student to claim it as their work or not.

[jbowman1993]

I have written "model answers" for Thai students studying abroad as well as the odd "model thesis" here and there..... oh and for Thai students studying in universities in Thailand.

I also know a few other people here both Thai and foreign that have done the same. It certainly pays well and we are not breaking the law, it is up to the student to claim it as their work or not.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess

[madjbs]

I entirely agree with you Jbowman, It annoys me greatly as well.

These people more often than not don't have the faintest clue about the quality of the main Thai unis. Many also claim to be in the know due to the fact they were TEFL ers at some small dodgy private institution that even the majority of Thai people have never heard of.

There is many good unis in Thailand that provide a high level of education. Furthermore each one has particular programs that will easily compete with any western program of the same level. There really is a good number of excellent Thai western educated scholars around, but obviously they can not be found at dodgy TEFL institutions where most farang teachers work and then claim to know all about Thai education.

As an example, in my program in the last 3 years students have been accepted into Warrick (one of the Top UK economics unis), Oxford, LSE, Cambridge, Cornell and more. If that doesn't indicate quality then I don't know what the hel_l does.

[endure]

Anyway, where is Juilliard & Eastman? I've never heard of them? And, what source did you obtain those rankings from? Like you say, you need to "back it up"

I'm a dim Pom whose only connection with further education is that I drive past a University on the way to work but even I know that Juilliard is one of the most famous music schools in the world.

[aussiestyle1983]

I have written "model answers" for Thai students studying abroad as well as the odd "model thesis" here and there..... oh and for Thai students studying in universities in Thailand.

I also know a few other people here both Thai and foreign that have done the same. It certainly pays well and we are not breaking the law, it is up to the student to claim it as their work or not.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess

I entirely agree with you Jbowman, It annoys me greatly as well.

These people more often than not don't have the faintest clue about the quality of the main Thai unis. Many also claim to be in the know due to the fact they were TEFL ers at some small dodgy private institution that even the majority of Thai people have never heard of.

There is many good unis in Thailand that provide a high level of education. Furthermore each one has particular programs that will easily compete with any western program of the same level. There really is a good number of excellent Thai western educated scholars around, but obviously they can not be found at dodgy TEFL institutions where most farang teachers work and then claim to know all about Thai education.

As an example, in my program in the last 3 years students have been accepted into Warrick (one of the Top UK economics unis), Oxford, LSE, Cambridge, Cornell and more. If that doesn't indicate quality then I don't know what the hel_l does.

Jbowman; That was a well backed up reply

Endure; In your program do you teach "There is many good uin's" or "There are many good uni's"? Just wondering............

[aussiestyle1983]

Anyway, where is Juilliard & Eastman? I've never heard of them? And, what source did you obtain those rankings from? Like you say, you need to "back it up"

I'm a dim Pom whose only connection with further education is that I drive past a University on the way to work but even I know that Juilliard is one of the most famous music schools in the world.

Is this knowledge through your interest in music? Or is this something that everyone knows about?

Honestly, I've never heard of the place. I would have guessed it to be in the UK with a name like that but I now know it's in the USA because of the OP. Please tell me more......................

[endure]

I've just heard of it in the same way I've heard of Oxford and MIT. There's a wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juilliard_School and they have their own site at http://www.juilliard.edu/

[madjbs]

OOOOO a grammar mistake, if a spelling test was an indication of how good something is then wouldn't the world be such a simple place.

[aussiestyle1983]

Looks like a decent uni if music is your thing. How about some stats about Thai students getting business, engineering, medical, law, etc. scholarships. I'd been keen to know

[aussiestyle1983]

OOOOO a grammar mistake, if a spelling test was an indication of how good something is then wouldn't the world be such a simple place.

You need to be able to speak before you can spell. People can often read over spelling errors without noticing, but grammar mistakes just stop the flow.................................

[madjbs]

and your posts are a shinning example of how it should be done are they?

English competency is a whole different subject so lets give it a rest.

Edited February 25, 2008 by madjbs

[endure]

Endure; In your program do you teach "There is many good uin's" or "There are many good uni's"? Just wondering............

I fix computers for a living. I would say 'There are many good universities...' but what do I know. The last grammar lesson I had was in 1966.

[jbowman1993]

Looks like a decent uni if music is your thing. How about some stats about Thai students getting business, engineering, medical, law, etc. scholarships. I'd been keen to know

Decent....lol Yeah its not bad. I've heard that MIT is an ok place to major in physics as well. Not great, but not bad either...

[mbkudu]

I would say the only glaring weakness that many Thai university grads have is that their English language skills are often not up to par. This is usually taken care of after an intensive English course before entering a university overseas. Jbowman, thanks for bringing up the topic. I am one of the many foreign students studying at a Thai university, and I have had only good experiences so far. Actually, the only negativity concerning this subject that I have witnessed is on this forum and Ajarn.com. Many people who have no direct experience in a good program here don't know what they are talking about.

[paully]

Also some are given courtesy passes to keep the self perpetuating money generating educational system that is our university system running. It 's all about bums on seats!

True enough, I'm afraid - education is more and more a business these days, and many western universities are unable to resist the lure of the foreign (certainly not just Thai) student who they can then charge top whack tuition fees. For instance, in the UK, a British or EU student might be charged £3,000 pa and a foreign student £10-11,000 pa for the same course. Who is going to ask too many difficult questions about entry standards for foreigners when they generally do the decent thing and return to their own country after the course? The principal concern for the university is the standard and pass rate of the home students.

Edited February 25, 2008 by paully

[PeaceBlondie]

Mr Bowman is totally correct: Julliard and Eastman have been some of the finest schools of applied music in the world since I married my wife in 1965. In the world.

Mr. Bowman is also correct that if we cannot somehow, anyhow, prove what we say about "all Thai uni degrees" or even about "almost all undergraduate degrees in Thailand" then we should stop singing the chorus.