People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[jitagon]

nice one above. Already noticed this 2-3 years ago, when Thaksin was loosing his popularity in the city: suddelny strange pro-thaksin's posters were barking around (always rude, but with no details whatsover) in various forums, to any fact comment found, against their dear leader (or salary man).

By they way, can you still get ASTV online?

http://www.astv-tv.com/

Unable to connect since 30min.

Are the Thaksin's boys, changing the media waves again?

A little bit late in the evening to start this, or is it because the police are out now in full force?

(I must say generally the police did in the last view years, always quiet a good job at nearly any demonstations, no matter what side was on the go. Except the Word Trade Cenre insidence).

----

rather disturbing above news quoted by Sriracha John, with Pro Thakin's groups throwing "toileteries"

among them. How low can you get? They did this before, and still no police arrest such people? This is most probably the lowest thing you can do, no matter where you are in the world.

Let's hope for some better discussions...

astv online is down.....

well if you have enough money you can get lobbiests (spelling) for everything and forums are one point of it. Thats not a secret. Just as always...hard to get good staff.

Spouse just returned from a rally at Saphan Hin in Phuket and is watching astv now, albeit on the telly. Looks like many more than 20,000. Sanam Luang full in all directions and the police all riot geered up.

[A_Traveller]

Understand there's been some violence, but I'm told minor thus far, against the PAD rally, they've been blocked at the Makkhawan Bridge and may head for the UN building.

Regards

[nomoretalksin]

While you were going to university and avoiding military service (maybe?) some guy named sombat that struggled to get to Pratom 6 was in the south of the country in a uniform hoping he wouldn't have his head cut off. He probably voted for Thaksin cause he 'thought' - righttly or wrongly - that Thaksin and TRT would help his village become more prosperous. Meanwhile, those going off to Uni here in Bangkok - or worse abroad - paid for, somehow, magically, by daddy's 35,000 baht per month as a "Senior" civil servant helped them get that advanced degree - were shouting into megaphones at rallies about how democracy had failed Thailand. Democracy hasn't failed Thailand - your corrupt, cronysitic system has failed your country. Blame it on Thaklsin? Blame it on your parents, blame it on Guanxi, blame it on your entire patronage system. All Thaksin did was perfect this rotten thing - and he ensured his survival by being the first senior Thai political leader to EVER do anything for poor Thais. You know what they say - if you can't beat me join em - hard to do that though if you hate the poor 'peasants' or their right to determine the future in "your" country.

I do agree with you, that Thaksin did try to do something for the poor people. But did he do it honestly (strange he was giving out so much credit, and with his AIS bussiness strongly encouraged all country people, to buy each 1 or 2 mobile phones - that alone was most probably already reason enough to put all cards on the poor) and was the plan successfull, I mean for Thaksin we know it was; but was is for the poor as well?

Ask the democrats, or any uni lecturer and study the hard economic facts (the poors got even poorer during Thaksins time!), and you will find out very soon, that your theory of "Thaksin helped the poor" would (mid- to long-germ) or already currently failed. We can discuss this matter in any pub if you have time And I'm not Thai, although I wouldn't mind or care, as we also have great Thai Elite Kids here, which I get along well, as well as many good Thai farmers on the country-side. Every person can be different, so try to drop your racists comments, you will mostly pin-point in the wrong direction, especially on a forum like this.

Nice eve (when's Sven going to be kicked out, when the new season already started??)

Edited May 25, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[thaigene2]

If I were the mayor of bangkok, I would read the riot act and tell them to disperse. They are entitled to their opinions and to make those opinions known - but they ARE NOT entitled to start marching as a mob through the streets at will in the middle of the Capital simply because they don't like what democracy and free and fair election produced a few months back.

Personally, I think it's time these demos were only allowed 'indoors' - like at Impact arena or the like - to prevent this sort of thing from turning into something nasty that intimidates and challegens a counter-response from the authorities or others. Inside- not outside any more. Yell and scream all you like at a controlled indoor venue. Then go home - and WAIT FOR THE NEXT ELECTION!

[bulmercke]

Elite-kid? You are talking too, and your main point is, that Thaksin's election have been fair, and in the last 6 years he didn't misuse the Thai-media to make an election even fairer etc.? And all the corruption and human right stories are all fairy tales we shouldn't believe in? Or you just forgot to read all Thai and other newspapers (which thanks Buddha, Thaksin wasn't able to control all) in the last 5-6 years?

I think corruption dislike and believing in other peoples good actions & work (not all Thai politicians, or such as people out on the streets today are corrupt) is not a matter of race, age, sex or account balance status etc. Just my little opinion.

I guess if you would remove 80% of your post, and try to make a bit more a conversations, then strange race or status accusations, TV would make more sense to all, no? Even your so called Thai Elite Kids, might have different opinions, no?

Welcome to the world, where not all posters not need to be any country-men/women, in order not to write English well. I already apologized by the way in other posts, for my shortcomings of my English skills.

While you were going to university and avoiding military service (maybe?) some guy named sombat that struggled to get to Pratom 6 was in the south of the country in a uniform hoping he wouldn't have his head cut off. He probably voted for Thaksin cause he 'thought' - righttly or wrongly - that Thaksin and TRT would help his village become more prosperous. Meanwhile, those going off to Uni here in Bangkok - or worse abroad - paid for, somehow, magically, by daddy's 35,000 baht per month as a "Senior" civil servant helped them get that advanced degree - were shouting into megaphones at rallies about how democracy had failed Thailand. Democracy hasn't failed Thailand - your corrupt, cronysitic system has failed your country. Blame it on Thaklsin? Blame it on your parents, blame it on Guanxi, blame it on your entire patronage system. All Thaksin did was perfect this rotten thing - and he ensured his survival by being the first senior Thai political leader to EVER do anything for poor Thais. You know what they say - if you can't beat me join em - hard to do that though if you hate the poor 'peasants' or their right to determine the future in "your" country.

Yes - agreed - but he did it for all the wrong reasons.

Do you honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them if it wasn't for the massive sway they have on who gets to govern?

[thaigene2]

Nice eve (when's Sven going to be kicked out, when the new season already started??)

Never said I like Thaksin - and of course anyone whow would buy a sports team is a egotistical fool..

[nomoretalksin]

Well - the rich and powerful families that control this country aren't that much different at all - but at least with the Democrats we didn't see the gross violations of human rights - Krue See and Tak Bai - nor the whole-sale, blatant and unashamed plundering of the nation's wealth by it's premier - nor the vicious attack on it's media and so-called independent bodies - in the judiciary - executive - and legislative branches of government that we saw under Thaksin and - now - Samak and Jakrapop Penkair.

PPP/TRT and Thaksin and Samak are something else - and now they're attempting to amend the constitution in favour of Thaksin and his ill-gotten assets!

Which - in short - means that even though Thaksin is as guilty as hel_l - he'll escape because of influence and money. Pretty disgusting really BUT then we all know this Thailand.

Good luck to the PAD - at least they've got the courage to stand up to what's really going on in this mainly cowardly and weak country.

I for one won't think any worse of any one who attends these PAD rallies. It's the right thing to do - even though there are those who think we should all knuckle down and obey!

Jaded

same good old comments, as also 2 years ago from you Jaded. Keep up the postings!

Vote (the current) Dems and Abhisit, and I guess we could see finaly a big honest (try) for

good change in Thailand.

So how many people been there. Any other figs, popping out somewhere else?

[thaigene2]

Yes - agreed - but he did it for all the wrong reasons.

Do you honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them if it wasn't for the massive sway they have on who gets to govern?

No I do not honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them. OK? But at some point, when democracy fails you, it's tough f+++ing luck. I say no more outside demos - inside only - Impact Arena or the like. No more Mobs marching here or there at night trying to incite another coup (in their favor, clearly). Shout inside, then go home - await the next election. They're trying to get another coup - worked last time didn't it? When th army takes the streets, there are no more demos are there? Ever noticed that? Exactly what these crony-elitist-inciters want.

[bulmercke]

If I were the mayor of bangkok, I would read the riot act and tell them to disperse. They are entitled to their opinions and to make those opinions known - but they ARE NOT entitled to start marching as a mob through the streets at will in the middle of the Capital simply because they don't like what democracy and free and fair election produced a few months back.

Personally, I think it's time these demos were only allowed 'indoors' - like at Impact arena or the like - to prevent this sort of thing from turning into something nasty that intimidates and challegens a counter-response from the authorities or others. Inside- not outside any more. Yell and scream all you like at a controlled indoor venue. Then go home - and WAIT FOR THE NEXT ELECTION!

Well - what's the whole point in protesting if you're shut away somewhere - where no-one can see or hear you?

Protests are all about making your presence felt - surely not?

And at least the PAD supporters aren't throwing bags of shit and piss - unlike the scum that have appeared to thwart any attempt toward democracy.

AND there's been an election and they're (the government) still attempting to amend the constitution in favour of one man! This is unconstitutional. Elections are all about up-holding the constitution surely.

[nomoretalksin]

If I were the mayor of bangkok, I would read the riot act and tell them to disperse. They are entitled to their opinions and to make those opinions known - but they ARE NOT entitled to start marching as a mob through the streets at will in the middle of the Capital simply because they don't like what democracy and free and fair election produced a few months back.

Personally, I think it's time these demos were only allowed 'indoors' - like at Impact arena or the like - to prevent this sort of thing from turning into something nasty that intimidates and challegens a counter-response from the authorities or others. Inside- not outside any more. Yell and scream all you like at a controlled indoor venue. Then go home - and WAIT FOR THE NEXT ELECTION!

is actually a good idea (indoors only or at least stationary - more save for all, totally agree with you!)

but I guess the indoor one, will fail, because only rich groups could afford that. Where then should the poor be able to demonstrate? Of course for Sondhi & co it would be a solution (to avoid confrontation, with the Pro-Thakins hooligians protesters), but you also most agree, that Sondhi's, PAD's demonstration never had any violence or any similar events, so why not outdoor?

Try to go there, one-day you will see it's more peacefull then you think. I even meet quite nice people there last year, and we had great discussions.

The problems, fightings or similar always comes from the Thaksin groups (only a view but quite disturbing their actions). I never saw anything otherwise (of course their can be exceptions).

cheers

[h90]

Democracy need some things: free media is the most important (and you see what Thaksin did and what this government does). Without free media no democracy. 2nd. no vote buying...this happend in huge scale on the last election...therefore they try to change the constitution. 3rd some basic education.

[bulmercke]

Yes - agreed - but he did it for all the wrong reasons.

Do you honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them if it wasn't for the massive sway they have on who gets to govern?

No I do not honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them. OK? But at some point, when democracy fails you, it's tough f+++ing luck. I say no more outside demos - inside only - Impact Arena or the like. No more Mobs marching here or there at night trying to incite another coup (in their favor, clearly). Shout inside, then go home - await the next election. They're trying to get another coup - worked last time didn't it? When th army takes the streets, there are no more demos are there? Ever noticed that? Exactly what these crony-elitist-inciters want.

No - it didn't. And they're not trying to get another coup - at least intentionally - although this could well be a distinct possibility if the PAD keep up their protests.

Simply - they're protesting against what they see as a gross violation of the constitution. Why are you so uptight about this?

[thaigene2]

Yes - agreed - but he did it for all the wrong reasons.

Do you honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them if it wasn't for the massive sway they have on who gets to govern?

No I do not honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them. OK? But at some point, when democracy fails you, it's tough f+++ing luck. I say no more outside demos - inside only - Impact Arena or the like. No more Mobs marching here or there at night trying to incite another coup (in their favor, clearly). Shout inside, then go home - await the next election. They're trying to get another coup - worked last time didn't it? When th army takes the streets, there are no more demos are there? Ever noticed that? Exactly what these crony-elitist-inciters want.

No - it didn't. And they're not trying to get another coup - at least intentionally - although this could well be a distinct possibility if the PAD keep up their protests.

Simply - they're protesting against what they see as a gross violation of the constitution. Why are you so uptight about this?

Because I can see where this is heading. What are you talking about "no it didn't" - of course it did. It was the excuse they used to roll tanks into the streets - "divisions in society".. or whatever convenient phrases that were uttered at the time. So I suppose you mean that if an elite rich-oligarchic party -say like the Democrats - wins an election , and farmers come down to Bangkok in their thousands, try to march to Government House at night, and do what PAD did for weeks on end, do you suppose the Army would stage a coup on behalf of the FARMERS and kick out the DEMOCRATS?? Sure....

BTW - I agree the constitutional changes should have proper public input.

[bulmercke]

If I were the mayor of bangkok, I would read the riot act and tell them to disperse. They are entitled to their opinions and to make those opinions known - but they ARE NOT entitled to start marching as a mob through the streets at will in the middle of the Capital simply because they don't like what democracy and free and fair election produced a few months back.

Personally, I think it's time these demos were only allowed 'indoors' - like at Impact arena or the like - to prevent this sort of thing from turning into something nasty that intimidates and challegens a counter-response from the authorities or others. Inside- not outside any more. Yell and scream all you like at a controlled indoor venue. Then go home - and WAIT FOR THE NEXT ELECTION!

is actually a good idea (indoors only or at least stationary - more save for all, totally agree with you!)

but I guess the indoor one, will fail, because only rich groups could afford that. Where then should the poor be able to demonstrate? Of course for Sondhi & co it would be a solution (to avoid confrontation, with the Pro-Thakins hooligians protesters), but you also most agree, that Sondhi's, PAD's demonstration never had any violence or any similar events, so why not outdoor?

Try to go there, one-day you will see it's more peacefull then you think. I even meet quite nice people there last year, and we had great discussions.

The problems, fightings or similar always comes from the Thaksin groups (only a view but quite disturbing their actions). I never saw anything otherwise (of course their can be exceptions).

cheers

There was never any violence perpetrated by PAD supporters. The only violence that occurred was because of Thaksin supporters.

[nomoretalksin]

News:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/25/...and-Protest.php

The Associated Press

Published: May 25, 2008

18 injured as anti-government demonstrators mass in downtown Bangkok

BANGKOK, Thailand: At least 18 people were injured Sunday as thousands of demonstrators massed in the heart of Thailand's capital to demand the ouster of the three-month-old government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej.

An Associated Press reporter saw rocks, bottles and other objects injure at least 18 anti-government protesters and their opponents as they clashed before riot police moved in to separate the opposing sides.

The clash occurred when a member of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Praphan Khunmee, told the crowd at Bangkok's Democracy Monument that former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was scheming to create a dynasty using Samak and others as his proxies. Police estimated that about 15,000 people attended the demonstration, but there was no way to confirm the exact number.

Samak is widely viewed as a proxy for Thaksin, who was overthrown in a September 2006 military coup following massive People's Alliance-led demonstrations demanding he step down because of alleged corruption and abuse of power.

read on here: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/25/...and-Protest.php

[bulmercke]

Yes - agreed - but he did it for all the wrong reasons.

Do you honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them if it wasn't for the massive sway they have on who gets to govern?

No I do not honestly believe he would give a dam_n about them. OK? But at some point, when democracy fails you, it's tough f+++ing luck. I say no more outside demos - inside only - Impact Arena or the like. No more Mobs marching here or there at night trying to incite another coup (in their favor, clearly). Shout inside, then go home - await the next election. They're trying to get another coup - worked last time didn't it? When th army takes the streets, there are no more demos are there? Ever noticed that? Exactly what these crony-elitist-inciters want.

No - it didn't. And they're not trying to get another coup - at least intentionally - although this could well be a distinct possibility if the PAD keep up their protests.

Simply - they're protesting against what they see as a gross violation of the constitution. Why are you so uptight about this?

Because I can see where this is heading. What are you talking about "no it didn't" - of course it did. It was the excuse they used to roll tanks into the streets - "divisions in society".. or whatever convenient phrases that were uttered at the time. So I suppose you mean that if an elite rich-oligarchic party -say like the Democrats - wins an election , and farmers come down to Bangkok in their thousands, try to march to Government House at night, and do what PAD did for weeks on end, do you suppose the Army would stage a coup on behalf of the FARMERS and kick out the DEMOCRATS?? Sure....

BTW - I agree the constitutional changes should have proper public input.

They weren't looking specifically for a coup although - because of the ruthless and tenacious nature of Thaksin - he became glaringly obvious that he wasn't goin' to step down peacefully.

In fact - the military stepped in when it became apparent that he was attempting to engineer a state of emergency - hence the timely military intervention.

Bloodshed was avoided - which is exactly what was planned at Sanam Luang on the day of the coup.

If the Democrats won an election and the farmers came on mass to BKK and tried to kick them out - would the military stage a coup on their behalf? I doubt it.

The military's first duty is the protection of the monarchy which was obviously under grave threat from Thaksin.

In short - Thaksin was riding rough-shot over everyone in his attempt to establish a dictatorial republic - and this is why the military felt compelled to intervene.

[bulmercke]

News:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/25/...and-Protest.php

The Associated Press

Published: May 25, 2008

18 injured as anti-government demonstrators mass in downtown Bangkok

BANGKOK, Thailand: At least 18 people were injured Sunday as thousands of demonstrators massed in the heart of Thailand's capital to demand the ouster of the three-month-old government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej.

An Associated Press reporter saw rocks, bottles and other objects injure at least 18 anti-government protesters and their opponents as they clashed before riot police moved in to separate the opposing sides.

The clash occurred when a member of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Praphan Khunmee, told the crowd at Bangkok's Democracy Monument that former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was scheming to create a dynasty using Samak and others as his proxies. Police estimated that about 15,000 people attended the demonstration, but there was no way to confirm the exact number.

Samak is widely viewed as a proxy for Thaksin, who was overthrown in a September 2006 military coup following massive People's Alliance-led demonstrations demanding he step down because of alleged corruption and abuse of power.

read on here: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/25/...and-Protest.php

No prizes for guessing correctly which side was throwing rocks, bottles and other objects!

[nomoretalksin]

Here some live footage from good old:

http://www.2bangkok.com/

They rapport that the Anti-PAD = Pro Thaksin Groups started the throwing of "things" towards the peaceful PAD

protesters. The Nation reports the same.

As usual , Thakin's supporters use force, such as Thaksin did himself. They great leader and role model for Thailand.

And still manipulating Thai politics, by amending the constitution, to stop people checking his corruption cases? And such a person, has just won with his football club (bought also with a tax free deal with Shin Corp, also by amending just a view days before the sale another law) the "fair-play UEFA" award?

And during all this time, he is claiming he left politics for sure.

---

thanks for 2bangkok.com for udpate, see also here for more interesting Short-films by them:

http://youtube.com/2Bangkok

----

Rumours:

Apparently the PAD want's to stay over night, but the police want to break them up with tear-gas. It could get nasty out there tonight.

Edited May 25, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[nomoretalksin]

I just would like to ask Thaksin 1 simple question: If he is so innocent, why doesn't he let the people check his corruption and abuse of power cases? If he would be innocent, there would be nothing to hide from, would there?

[bulmercke]

I just would like to ask Thaksin 1 simple question: If he is so innocent, why doesn't he let the people check his corruption and abuse of power cases? If he would be innocent, there would be nothing to hide from, would there?

Ouch! Nothing like pointing out the truth!

Good post.

[bulmercke]

PAD decides to rally in front of UN building - THE NATION -

The People's Alliance for Democracy decided to continue its rally in front of the United Nations Building after police prevented it from leading its demonstrators to move past the Makkhawan Bridge.

Six police trucks block all lanes at the bride and police announced through amplifiers that the protesters could not be allowed to pass through the bridge or else they would cause traffic congestions Monday

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Seems like the PAD were several steps ahead of Thaksin's mob today.

They're clever - and this is one of the reasons why Thaksin is no longer in power!

[bulmercke]

BREAKING - THE NATION -

Police prepare tear gas for breaking up protesters

A police source from the Metropolitan Police Bureau said police were preparing to use tear gas to break up protesters if they try to push past the police barricade at the Makkhawan Bridge.

[Golf]

Hi all,

This is just like watching re-run shows. Again and again, people have been used strategically for the benefit of just a few influentials. PAD or Pro Taksin or whoever... It is very difficult for me to see us, Thai people, hurting each others time and time again. This is a re-run show of the disturbing October 1976! Same story, but different actors. Both side killed each other for what...ideas, different political views, or someone else's power?

Jamlong (some spell his name differently) is hungry for power, Taksinn wants to rule once more. Sonthi, a MEdia tycoon who wants some changes for good, and others that MAY or MAY NOT have any personal agendas. All these actors are leading Thai people who have different political views to the deepest, darkest time of their lives. How many people have to died so that YOU can have the power?

I am sick and tired of all these BS and hope one day, just one day, we all wake up from our long, long dream...

Golf

[jumnien]

Hi all,

This is just like watching re-run shows. Again and again, people have been used strategically for the benefit of just a few influentials. PAD or Pro Taksin or whoever... It is very difficult for me to see us, Thai people, hurting each others time and time again. This is a re-run show of the disturbing October 1976! Same story, but different actors. Both side killed each other for what...ideas, different political views, or someone else's power?

Jamlong (some spell his name differently) is hungry for power, Taksinn wants to rule once more. Sonthi, a MEdia tycoon who wants some changes for good, and others that MAY or MAY NOT have any personal agendas. All these actors are leading Thai people who have different political views to the deepest, darkest time of their lives. How many people have to died so that YOU can have the power?

I am sick and tired of all these BS and hope one day, just one day, we all wake up from our long, long dream...

Golf

You are a hero and your words are golden. Unfortunately, the military goons and their cheerleaders will be hunting down your posts.

[Golf]

I don't mind if my post is taken down I say it what it is. I think it is the right thing to say how I truly feel. It doesn't matter if I am banned from this forum, because I am really sick and tired.

Golf

[sriracha john]

PAD is not going to move.... and rightly so...

PAD to continue rallying at Makkhawan Bridge for days

The People's Alliance for Democracy announced that it would continue to occupy the road at the Makkhawan Bridge in front of the UN office to continue demonstrations against charter amendments.

PAD's coordinator Suriyasai Katasila gave a live interview on Channel 3 at 7:10 am Monday saying the PAD said it was sorry that its demonstrations would cause inconvenience to motorists.

Suriyasai said the road at the Makkhawan Bridge was impassable because police put up a barricade there.

- The Nation

Edited May 26, 2008 by sriracha john

[jumnien]

You'll find a lot of good backround information on asiasentinel dot com ! Put down your Nation and Bangkok Post if you want to know what's going on!

[jumnien]

Giles Ji Ungpakorn

04 May 2008

Right-wing forces use the lèse majestè laws to stifle dissent, not preserve loyalty to the king

Once again we are seeing the extreme right in Thailand using lèse majesté, or the crime of injury to the royalty, as an excuse to encourage acts of violence against those who stand up for freedom and justice.

Thirty years ago, agitation by the extreme right through such media outlets as the Tank Corps radio station and Dao Sayam newspaper, resulted in the utmost barbarism at Thammasat University on October 6, 1976, when right-wing forces and the military set on students, hanging them, setting them afire and committing other acts of savagery. Therefore the recent swearing of an oath of allegiance to "Nation Religion and King" by the so-called People’s Alliance for Democracy at Thammasat is tantamount to spitting on the memories of those who died and suffered in the bloody events.

Most recently we have seen Manager, the media outlet of big businessman Sondhi Limtongkul, opening its web pages to right-wing thugs who want to encourage violence against Chotisak Onsoong, a young man who chose to think differently and not stand for the King's song in the cinema. Following this there have been threats of violence, also posted on Manager’s website, against Jittra Kotchadej, chairwoman of the Triumph textile workers union. Jittra’s supposed "crime" was to wear a T-shirt supporting Chotisak's freedom of expression.

In both cases, their addresses have been published by Manager, an action that is not only illegal in that it encourages violence against others, but is also a serious obstacle to basic rights and democracy. I call on everyone in the Peoples' Movement to condemn this despicable media outlet and its right-wing owner.

We should not be surprised at Manager’s behavior. After all they supported the September 19, 2006 coup that destroyed democracy and removed legitimacy from the Thai state. Sondhi Limtongkul has never been on the side of freedom, democracy or the Peoples' Movement. But the important question to ask is: will Somsak Kosaisuk, Pipop Tongchai, Somkiat Pongpaiboon and Suriyasai Takasila have enough basic democratic principles to come out and condemn Manager? Given their close alliance with Sondhi and his media empire, staying quiet would be the same as condoning these actions. I still hope that they will have some principles left, but my hopes are rapidly fading.

On May Day this year, Somsak Kosaisuk, who used to be someone I admired, made a statement on behalf of the Workers Solidarity Committee that workers should unite to fight the capitalists. I agree with his statement. But does Somsak oppose all capitalists? Or will he still build alliances with non-Thaksin ones? And in his so-called struggle against capitalism will he defend "Nation Religion and King," the slogan of the extreme right who are the sworn enemies and murderers of students, workers and farmers?

Pipop Tongchai had the unfortunate experience of seeing his bookshop burnt by right-wing thugs during the violence of 1976. Will he still maintain, as he did a few years ago at Chula, that he must continue to build an alliance with conservative monarchists?

Lèse majesté is an excuse to silence and use violence against those who think differently. But that is merely one of many reasons why the law should be abolished. The second reason arguing for abolition, as a matter of urgency, is that it is an authoritarian law of the type found in countries with absolute monarchies. No modern civilized and democratic nation in the world maintains such a law. If we are to have democracy we must have the right to express ourselves. There must be the right to criticise the monarchy.

Otherwise the monarch or members of the royal family can behave as they like without any accountability or transparency. Lèse majesté laws actually indicate that conservatives are afraid that if they allow criticism we shall see that many Thais have different opinions. The carefully constructed image of the monarchy will also face serious scrutiny. In other words, the conservatives are afraid of the truth.

If not, why not abolish lèse majesté? I am not afraid myself to face the fact that most Thais at present love and respect the King. Why are the ruling class so afraid? Or is it really about the need by factions of the elite, whether the military or the capitalists, to use lèse majesté to attack their opponents for their own narrow personal gain?

This is an important question that we must all ask. The 19th September coup claimed royal legitimacy, but did this coup take place in order to strengthen the monarchy or to allow one faction of the ruling elite could beat Thaksin? No one can really deny that lèse majesté is a political tool in numerous faction fights between those who all claim to support the monarchy. This is another reason to abolish the law.

Apart from the right to criticise the monarchy, in a democratic society we must have the right to propose new forms of society. It must not be a "crime" to advocate a republic in Thailand. Republics exist in most modern and civilised nations of the world. But whether or not to have a republic must be the decision of the Thai people after free debate.

Thailand actually has a long tradition of differing views concerning the monarchy. Under feudalism the surfs made great efforts to avoid royal conscripted labor and the ruling elites would often kill kings in order to take power themselves. Under the absolute monarchies of Rama 5-7, nobles, civil servants, workers and farmers often showed their displeasure at the centralisation of power or the inefficiency of the king's rule. This ended with the 1932 revolution. In the period when the Communist Party of Thailand had much influence, many Thais wanted a republic. These are historical facts. So let us not believe the rubbish that all Thais have been royalists throughout history.

Whether a Thai citizen uses scientific or Buddhist philosophy, the common factor here is that respect and admiration should come from reason. We must be free to think for ourselves. It is not possible to force someone to respect anything sincerely.

Therefore Chotisak's and many other people's decisions not to stand in the cinema are perfectly natural and legitimate. But if the Thai elite need to use a law to enforce respect that means that they are afraid that Thais can actually think for themselves! Lèse majesté is an obstacle to reasoned free-thinking among Thais. It is high time it was abolished.

Giles Ji Ungpakorn is a member of the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok

[sriracha john]

Is the above from Giles banned book?

[jumnien]

Is the above from Giles banned book?

No, but I highly recommend that you read it!