People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[ando]

[ I see one side that wins popular elections and another side that uses coups and bullcrap les majiste charges. Gee, ya know, I'll lean toward the side that wins elections. ]

I fully agree with you. PAD is just continuing to divide the country and trying to cause another coup. I wonder if these PAD people hold down any serious jobs. I support democracy and free speech but these bored and bitter PAD protesters should move on and stop causing a divide.

The PAD may be only a tiny urban minority, but their tactics have proven very effective at inciting a military coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in the very recent past. I guess they think its worth a try again since they didn't get the result they hoped for at the last elections.

Their behaviour wouldn't be tolerated in any normal western democracy.

[Pierrot]

All of you using this forum ... you are being censored right now... TVisa ought to tell you the truth... if they don't... they are pandering to the un democratic government in power in Thailand right now. Thai Visa is covering it's own commercial ass ... take a stance people...

What are you talking about ? I can see posts from completely opposite sides in this thread.

Actually, you can post your message because there is no censor thanks to this very democratic government.

You want more ? Read the warnings on TV dated from the beginning of the coup. Do we have the same now? Absolutely no, so pls this b***s***t about censor and undemocratic government needs to stop.

[nomoretalksin]

Peace folks!

Back to topic:

Monday - TV quick POLL:

Do you think the PAD and supporters should prolong it's demonstrations, if the second planned motion to amend the constitution* will not be lanced?

YES or NO?

* bring back 111 banned TRT, purge Thaksin's court cases, make election fraud easy again, basically let the Thaksin clique get away with cheating once again etc.

[hammered]

Here is another article. This time by Shawn Crispin in the Asia Times:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JE31Ae02.html

It was obviously written before the events of the weekend, so some of the stuff about the Samak and Army relationship may now have changed, but well worth a read a read in its entirety.

[bulmercke]

PAD build permanent stage - LATEST - The Nation

The People's Alliance for Democracy is building a permanent stage behind is makeshift stage at the Makkhawan Bridge.

It is building a stage with steel scaffolds behind the truck used as a platform.

PAD leaders vowed Sunday night they would not move away from the current rally site and would establish their "independent PAD city" at the area to fight against the "puppet government".

>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like they're in there for the long-haul.

Edited June 2, 2008 by bulmercke

[bulmercke]

Interior Minister confident parliament will not be dissolved - Bangkok Post - Jun 02 2008 -

Despite coming under heavy criticism for flip-flopping over his handling of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) demonstators, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej is completely capable of handling the situation at Makhawan Rangsan bridge, according to the Interior Minister.

Chalerm Yubamrung said the National Police Force will hold a meeting Monday afternoon to discuss security at areas where the PAD demonstration is being held. They will also be planning how to direct the traffic around Ratchadumnern avenue during rush hour.

“The prime minister does not feel discouraged," Mr Chalerm said. "I’m confident that the government is capable of controlling the situation and parliament will definitely not be dissolved as a result of the demonstration."

Asked what he thought of the PAD rally, Mr Chalerm refused to comment, saying he no longer wanted to be a victim of verbal abuse.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah.......right!

Edited June 2, 2008 by bulmercke

[ando]

PAD build permanent stage - LATEST - The Nation

The People's Alliance for Democracy is building a permanent stage behind is makeshift stage at the Makkhawan Bridge.

It is building a stage with steel scaffolds behind the truck used as a platform.

PAD leaders vowed Sunday night they would not move away from the current rally site and would establish their "independent PAD city" at the area to fight against the "puppet government".

>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like they're in there for the long-haul.

Determined to get into a fight arnt they.

[bulmercke]

PAD build permanent stage - LATEST - The Nation

The People's Alliance for Democracy is building a permanent stage behind is makeshift stage at the Makkhawan Bridge.

It is building a stage with steel scaffolds behind the truck used as a platform.

PAD leaders vowed Sunday night they would not move away from the current rally site and would establish their "independent PAD city" at the area to fight against the "puppet government".

>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like they're in there for the long-haul.

Determined to get into a fight arnt they.

Samak doesn't have the intelligence - smarts - or the behind the scenes power base to keep this going. He should stick to running-up delicious little numbers on his TV cooking show.

[hammered]

PAD build permanent stage - LATEST - The Nation

The People's Alliance for Democracy is building a permanent stage behind is makeshift stage at the Makkhawan Bridge.

It is building a stage with steel scaffolds behind the truck used as a platform.

PAD leaders vowed Sunday night they would not move away from the current rally site and would establish their "independent PAD city" at the area to fight against the "puppet government".

>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like they're in there for the long-haul.

Determined to get into a fight arnt they.

Samak doesn't have the intelligence - smarts - or the behind the scenes power base to keep this going. He should stick to running-up delicious little numbers on his TV cooking show.

Lets not forget that the clock is ticking on the court cases relating to politcal parties which according to Crispins A-Times piece is exactly how the army see it all playing out to their enduring advantage without the need for any coups along the way although Samaks little tantrum over the weekend could have made one element of the equation a little more dodgy.

[cmsally]

Quite frankly listening to some of the emotive meaningless speeches and really bad/foul language coming out of the PAD's mouths; I can't believe anyone is supporting them. At least anyone with at least an ounce of brain matter.

As far as comedy goes though it's a pretty good show. My daughter and I were in hysterics last night watching the small, old guy with a beard say not much at all, and when he ran out of words just put his arms in the air and let out a loud wail or whatever it was. He did this repeatedly and we were in absolute hysterics, our sides were splitting.

It's a bit like the "Monster Raving Loony Party" holding the British govt. to ransom.

[bulmercke]

Commentary: Lurking violence

By Veera Prateepchaikul

Thank God common sense prevailed despite the political insanity and immaturity of several of our politicians who appear determined to achieve their selfish political agendas at all costs. But it is not over yet. The conditions are still there, feeding and nurturing division and confrontation.

Like his predecessor Thaksin Shinawatra, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has a reputation for a loose tongue which, on various occasions, unnecessarily puts him in an awkward position.

For example, in his interview earlier this month with the National Broadcasting Service of Thailand (NBT), formerly Channel 11, of the Public Relations Department, the prime minister told the show's host that he discovered during an overseas trip that some local banks were in deep financially trouble and were on the brink of jeng, a Chinese word which means bankruptcy.

Mr Samak's latest run with his loose tongue happened on Saturday morning when he went on NBT television, blasting People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters for all the evils they have committed, including a plot to carry out an act of terrorism in the capital city, and then threatening to resort to force to break up the protest.

"I am duty-bound to say that I will take them [the protesters] out of that spot. You are bringing in criminal elements to cause terrorist acts in the city. You have to accept the consequences of what you did. I will not tolerate it. The police and soldiers will not tolerate it either," Mr Samak said on television.

"I will go for a break-up today. Preparations have been made. If you want to try, go ahead," he said.

Mr Samak's open threat amounted to throwing a burning match on gasoline. No sooner had he finished his weekly television programme, when PAD swiftly reacted through its ASTV satellite-based television network by appealing to its supporters to show up at the protest site at Makkawan bridge to defy the prime minister's unveiled threat to forcibly disperse them.

Thus, the political temperature which was expected to cool somewhat following the resignation of besieged PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair and the aborted attempt to rewrite the Constitution suddenly shot through the roof. Thank God it was a Saturday. Otherwise the stock market could have crashed.

The independent television station, Thai Public Broadcasting Service, suspended all other programmes and devoted its air time to the political situation in the aftermath of Mr Samak's bombshell statement.

Several well-known academics were invited to join the special programme to express their views and concerns. Most warned against the use of force to break up the protest and cautioned the government could collapse if the crackdown went out of control.

Other coalition parties reportedly held hush-hush consultations to assess the situation. They finally agreed to distance themselves from the prime minister's iron-fisted approach, saying that they had not been consulted in advance.

Meanwhile, at the protest site, police in riot gear and with water trucks on standby were ready to move in to disperse the protesting crowd once an order was given. As defiant as ever, the protesters were ready to face the crackdown with some allegedly equipped with wooden shields and baseball bats.

A violent collision appeared inevitable. Many bystanders, myself included, held their breath and watched nervously for the worst to come.

Thank God common sense prevailed despite the political insanity and immaturity of several of our politicians who appear determined to achieve their selfish political agendas at all costs.

The government finally backed down after 12 tense, cliff-hanging hours in a face-off between police and protesters.

But instead of facing the embarrassment of having to announce the about-face himself, Mr Samak assigned Interior Minister Chalerm Yubamrung to do the job for him.

In Chalerm style, he said the threat to use force was unnecessary since the authorities had already thwarted attempts by ill-intentioned elements to instigate violence.

Do you buy that story?

Our worst fears of political bloodshed, and possibly another coup, seem to have been averted for now.

But it is not over yet. The conditions are still there, feeding and nurturing division and confrontation.

The opposing sides must rethink their uncompromising stand and each take a step back.

[nomoretalksin]

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...3&Itemid=31

Quote

Thailand's Political Tensions Continue

Brian McCartan 01 June 2008 Thousands of protesters say they will continue their call for Prime Minister Sundarevej's ouster

Although the Thai government appears to have blinked first over a confrontation with demonstrators Saturday, the People's Alliance for Democracy, which is seeking to oust Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej from office, doesn't appear to have been mollified. On Sunday, Chamlong Srimuang, the ascetic onetime Bangkok governor who helped to lead similar protests two years ago, said protesters would stay where they are until Samak is dislodged from office.

The situation first appeared grim Saturday as hundreds of police deployed in full riot gear around the Makkhawan Rangsan Bridge near the demonstrators, who began arming themselves with helmets and plywood shields along with, according to a police statement, flagpoles, iron pipes, baseball bats and slingshots. Their ranks swelled from a few hundred in the morning to over 10,000 by evening. The PAD also announced that other leaders were ready to take up the fight if the current five were arrested. At least 200 PAD supporters are acting as security for the demonstrators.

After an announcement that that force wouldn't be used to break up the rally, the protesters responded by giving roses to riot police. On Sunday, Samak backtracked further, denying that he had ever ordered the police to disperse the protest and accusing reporters of distorting the situation.

"Let me stress that I never gave orders to police to disperse the crowds, I only said that closing off Makkhawan Rangsan bridge was illegal," he said, accusing the demonstrators of seeking to promote violence. During his "Talk Samak Style" television show on Sunday he said, "They want the government to make a raid while there were a lot of protestors to capture the attention of the Untied Nations, but I didn't fall for that."

The growing protests have been sparked by anger over the Samak-led government's ongoing attempts to amend the constitution to arrange for the nullification of corruption charges against former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Political tension has continued to ratchet up over the formal levelling of charges against Thaksin, accusations of lese majeste against Prime Minister's Office Minister Jakrapob Penair and recurring rumors of a coup, all of which are starting to take their toll on Thailand's business confidence.

Samak's People's Power Party (PPP) government has made the amendment of the 2007 constitution a priority. A motion to amend the charter has already been submitted to House Speaker Chai Chidchob and is expected to be tabled in an extraordinary session of Parliament to begin on June 9.

The pressure has begun to tell on lawmakers, however, with 20 senators and two MPs withdrawing their names from the motion on May 27 and another two senators and an MP withdrawing two days later, leaving 131 MPs and senators still in support. On Friday, enough senators withdrew their names that the amendment motion lost its legal status, although some members of the PPP vowed to renew the process.

Critics of the constitutional amendment say there are more pressing economic and political concerns the government should deal with first. The PPP-led government, opponents allege, is only interested in changing the charter to arrange to bail Thaksin out of the corruption charges and to reinstate 111 former Thai Rak Thai party executives banned from politics for five years. One amendment item is the ending of the authority of the Assets Scrutiny Commission that is currently investigating Thaksin.

A major stumbling block for the opposition PAD is the defamation case against leader Sondhi Limthongkul. The media mogul, head of Manager Group, was sentenced to two years in prison for defaming former Thai Rak Thai party secretary Phumtham Vejjayachai and is currently on bail waiting appeal. Pro-government supporters have threatened to seek the revocation of his bail if he takes the stage at the rallies and are attempting to expose his more dubious business practices.

In addition to calling for a halt to the amendment process, the PAD earlier this week began pressing for the resignation of Samak and the impeachment of lawmakers involved in the constitutional amendment. The PAD leader, Piphob Dhongchai, told the audience on 26 May, "We will call on Prime Minister and PPP leader Samak Sundaravej and his cabinet to take responsibility for the attempt to scrap the constitution to whitewash crimes committed by people in the Thaksin regime." Piphob claimed on 26 May to already have 10,000 signatures for an impeachment letter and plans to gather 20,000 more.

In an attempt to appease critics, Samak has devised a plan for another yet nationwide referendum on the amendment process. This plan was endorsed by the cabinet on 27 May. The Electoral Commission has agreed to speed up the drafting of a new referendum law before the special parliamentary session. The Council of State had earlier concluded that the previous 1998 law on referendums could not be used since the 1997 Constitution was no longer in force.

On May 26, the Assets Scrutiny Commission set up by the military junta to investigate corruption under the Thaksin government released a preliminary conclusion that the former prime minister should be prosecuted for corruption and abuse of power and Bt76.6 billion ($2.35 billion) in frozen assets be placed in government coffers.

The findings, which long ago were made public in the press and contributed to Thaksin's ouster by the military-led coup, claimed that the former prime minister was "unusually rich." Sak Korsaengruang, the ASC spokesman, said panel chairman, Nam Yimyam, would submit the charges to public prosecutors and the Supreme Court's Political Office Section last Friday.

As has been widely reported, the assets committee alleges that Thaksin and his wife, Pojaman, concealed stocks and transferred shares in Shin Corp, Ample Rich Investment Co. and Win Mark Co. during his rule to nominees including their three children and relatives. In addition, the family allegedly received undue gains from an excise tax shelter for Shin Corp and from AIS Co. over the state-owned TOT Corp's prepaid telephone system.Thaksin and his family are also accused of benefitting from an iPSTAR satellite project connected to a Bt4 billion loan by the Export-Import Bank to Burma for the purchase of a satellite system from Shin Satellite. Senior officials of CAT Telecom Corp and TOT Corp may also be prosecuted by the National Counter Corruption Commission on related charges.

Two days later, the ASC submitted 10 boxes of files on the investigation into a scandal involving CTX luggage scanners at Suvarnabhumi Airport in order to seek an indictment from the Attorney General for 25 suspects involved in the deal which is estimated to have cost Bt 6.93 billion (US$213 million) in damages. The accused include Thaksin, who was chair of the Suvarnabhumi airport development committee, Attorney General Chaikasem Nitsiri, former Transportation Minister Suriya Jungrungreangkit, former advisor to the Transport Minister Thirawat Chatraphimuk, former board members and executives of New Bangkok International Airport Co. and Airports of Thailand Plc. and 13 construction contractors.

The defendants stand accused of amending the contract for scanners to favor one company, GE Invision of the US, whose machines cost Bt1.7 billion more than the price agreed in the contract. The attorney general is scheduled to decide on the indictments in 30 days. More charges are expected to be filed by the ASC before its term finishes next month.

Accusations of nominee politics have been leveled at the People's Power Party since before the December elections. Critics claim the 111 banned Thai Rak Thai members have simply engineered their own people, especially wives and children, into office as elected MPs and senators and placed in key posts in the government. The results, they claim, can be seen in the government's inability to solve political and economic problems due to unqualified cabinet members. Samak himself has run into problems with members of his cabinet who owe their allegiances more to Thaksin than to him.

The government is further strained by accusations against Jakrapob of lese majeste stemming from a speech he gave at the Foreign Correspondent's Club of Thailand on 29 August last year. Jakrapob's speech claimed that Thailand's monarchy had developed together with a patronage system which currently has Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda at the top. The system, Jakrapob alleged, has kept average Thais subservient to an elite. A Thai translation of the speech was circulated widely on the internet.

Jakrapob's speech greatly upset a military that is strongly loyal to the monarchy and to former army commander Prem Tinsulanonda. It has also been latched on to by the opposition Democrat Party for its supposed slight against the monarchy for calling into question its role in a patronage system that Jakrapob alleges dispenses petty rewards and protection in return for unquestioned obedience and conformity.

Under heavy pressure from the military, Jakrapob resigned Friday in an apparent bid to lower tensions. Jakrapob had previously called a press conference to profess his loyalty to the monarchy and commissioned another translation of the speech, but he claims he has the right to criticize Prem.

He may have to prove that in court soon. On 29 May, Police Lt Gen Adisorn Nonsee, Commissioner of the Central Investigation Bureau announced that there is enough evidence to charge Jakrapob with lese majeste. "We expect to summon Jakrapob to acknowledge charges next week," he said. Under Article 112, Jakrapob could face three to fifteen years in prison if convicted.

Meanwhile tensions continue to run high. Chamlong warned police against using violence to break up protests. "It won't be long before this government goes," he told demonstrators. "Who or which agencies do anything, we can check. If they use force to crack down on us, they will definitely face revenge from us." Deputy National Police Chief Police General Vichien Pojanaphosri has said the police will not attempt to disperse protestors unless the demonstrations become violent.

So far, the military has denied any plans for a coup. Army Chief Anupong Paochinda, while calling for stepped up security for PAD rallies on 27 May, said he felt the police can control the situation the army had no backup plans. Admiral Sathirapan Kyanont, Thailand's Navy Chief, said on 27 May that he felt concerned about clashes between protestors.

The early recall of Lt Gen Prayuth, who was on a scheduled two-week inspection tour in Europe as a part of his studies at the National Defense College, instantly put many people on edge. The Bangkok Post, one of Thailand's two English-language dailies, cited a source saying, "Lt Gen Prayuth was aware PAD was calling for a coup and they had approached him, so he did not want to be in Bangkok." There is some fear that the PAD may provoke a situation wherein the military would feel it necessary to stage a coup.

Supreme Commander Boonsrang Niempradit has said, "Nobody is foolish enough to undertake a coup. It would make things worse." Statements like this, however, have not calmed fears.

UNQUOTE

[bulmercke]

Surapong: PAD rally has hurt investor confidence - BangkokPost -

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee is optimistic that the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) rally will not lead to a military coup. However, after one week, he said the economy has felt the impact due to decreased investor confidence.

Mr Surapong stated that the PAD’s calls for parliament to be dissolved was premature given the lack of internal conflicts within parliament.

The PAD's calls for the government to stand down was also premature since it had only been in office for 3 months.

“There is no reason for the government to quit since it is doing all it can to solve outstanding problems," he said.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Another government lie.

SET 833.65 UP 3.05

SET100 1,292.4 UP 2.92

SET50 597.82 UP0.21

Edited June 2, 2008 by bulmercke

[hammered]

Surapong: PAD rally has hurt investor confidence - BangkokPost -

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee is optimistic that the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) rally will not lead to a military coup. However, after one week, he said the economy has felt the impact due to decreased investor confidence.

Mr Surapong stated that the PAD’s calls for parliament to be dissolved was premature given the lack of internal conflicts within parliament.

The PAD's calls for the government to stand down was also premature since it had only been in office for 3 months.

“There is no reason for the government to quit since it is doing all it can to solve outstanding problems," he said.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Another government lie.

What I never understood was why from the governments point of view they didnt just basically ignore the PAD rally. It seems at every opportunity the government have done done everything they could to ensure more and more publicity for the PAD. If they had just gone about governing the country, and when questioned about the PAD just responded "it is their democratic right to protest, but we were elected to run the country and have other business.........", where would the PAD have been?

Oh I guess they would also have had to leave the consty ammendment out but that looks likely to happen now anyway, so what was all the fighting talk for? All they have done is given massive media coverage, including internationally, to what was a small rally. Were the government gamed so perfectly by the PAD? Were the government just plain stupid? Did the government or elements of it want such a confrontational situation? Did someone within the government want Samak out?

Without their own actions the PAD today would have been facing the reality of packing bags and going home. Now they have been seen across the world as a bunch of peaceful protesters faced at one time with lines of riot police, and they are in a position of being able to redefine a reason to remain protesting with more support than they had last week. Unless it is all part of the government plan to create more and more instability, I would be amazed if even Mr. Thaksin was not quite upset to say the least about the actions of his supposed puppets.

Edited to correct my usual bunch of typos and spelling errors

Edited June 2, 2008 by hammered

[Pierrot]

Peace folks!

Back to topic:

Monday - TV quick POLL:

Do you think the PAD and supporters should prolong it's demonstrations, if the second planned motion to amend the constitution* will not be lanced?

YES or NO?

* bring back 111 banned TRT, purge Thaksin's court cases, make election fraud easy again, basically let the Thaksin clique get away with cheating once again etc.

Definitively NO !

The PAD has no popular legitimacy. The only people who could pretend represent the people of Thailand in this constitutional fight are the democrats, at least they have been elected. Where are they?

[bulmercke]

Surapong: PAD rally has hurt investor confidence - BangkokPost -

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee is optimistic that the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) rally will not lead to a military coup. However, after one week, he said the economy has felt the impact due to decreased investor confidence.

Mr Surapong stated that the PAD’s calls for parliament to be dissolved was premature given the lack of internal conflicts within parliament.

The PAD's calls for the government to stand down was also premature since it had only been in office for 3 months.

“There is no reason for the government to quit since it is doing all it can to solve outstanding problems," he said.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Another government lie.

What I never understood was why from the governments point of view they didnt just basically ignore the PAD rally. It seems at every opportunity the government have done done everything they could to ensure more and more publicity for the PAD. If they had just gone about governing the country, and when questioned about the PAD just responded "it is their democratic right to protest, but we were elected to run the country and have other business.........", where would the PAD have been?

Oh I guess they would also have had to leave the consty ammendment out but that looks likely to happen now anyway, so what was all the fighting talk for? All they have done is given massive media coverage, including internationally, to what was a small rally. Were the government gamed so perfectly by the PAD? Were the government just plain stupid? Did the government or elements of it want such a confrontational situation? Did someone within the government want Samak out?

Without their own actions the PAD today would have been facing the reality of packing bags and going home. Now they have been seen across the world as a bunch of peaceful protesters faced at one time with lines of riot police, and they are in a position of being able to redefine a reason to remain protesting with more support than they had last week. Unless it is all part of the government plan to create more and more instability, I would be amazed if even Mr. Thaksin was not quite upset to say the least about the actions of his supposed puppets.

Edited to correct my usual bunch of typos and spelling errors

I'm not complaining. This is Thailand. The PAD were the BIG BIG winners at the weekend.

[bulmercke]

Peace folks!

Back to topic:

Monday - TV quick POLL:

Do you think the PAD and supporters should prolong it's demonstrations, if the second planned motion to amend the constitution* will not be lanced?

YES or NO?

* bring back 111 banned TRT, purge Thaksin's court cases, make election fraud easy again, basically let the Thaksin clique get away with cheating once again etc.

Definitively NO !

The PAD has no popular legitimacy. The only people who could pretend represent the people of Thailand in this constitutional fight are the democrats, at least they have been elected. Where are they?

Exactly. Where are they? In some ways the PAD are everything the Democrats should be right now - but aren't.

Vibrant - courageous - quick to respond to opponents tactics - dynamic - tenacious and daring.

The Democrats - in contrast - are very much old-school and their inflexibility to change - and to respond effectively to the PPP is glaring.

[jumnien]

Here is another article. This time by Shawn Crispin in the Asia Times:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JE31Ae02.html

It was obviously written before the events of the weekend, so some of the stuff about the Samak and Army relationship may now have changed, but well worth a read a read in its entirety.

Excellent article. So good to have a real journalist quoted instead of this rubbish from the Nation and the BP - two versions of the "New Light of Bangkok".

[jumnien]

Peace folks!

Back to topic:

Monday - TV quick POLL:

Do you think the PAD and supporters should prolong it's demonstrations, if the second planned motion to amend the constitution* will not be lanced?

YES or NO?

* bring back 111 banned TRT, purge Thaksin's court cases, make election fraud easy again, basically let the Thaksin clique get away with cheating once again etc.

Definitively NO !

The PAD has no popular legitimacy. The only people who could pretend represent the people of Thailand in this constitutional fight are the democrats, at least they have been elected. Where are they?

No doubt they are meeting in back rooms deciding how to divide up Thaksin 2.4 billion dollars amongst themselves! Yes, happy days are here again if you are a corrupt politician!

[jumnien]

Quite frankly listening to some of the emotive meaningless speeches and really bad/foul language coming out of the PAD's mouths; I can't believe anyone is supporting them. At least anyone with at least an ounce of brain matter.

As far as comedy goes though it's a pretty good show. My daughter and I were in hysterics last night watching the small, old guy with a beard say not much at all, and when he ran out of words just put his arms in the air and let out a loud wail or whatever it was. He did this repeatedly and we were in absolute hysterics, our sides were splitting.

It's a bit like the "Monster Raving Loony Party" holding the British govt. to ransom.

Typical of several days of hard-core meth use!

[ando]

PAD really doesn't have much going for it at the moment, except for their stated aim of overturning the elected government.

Its hard to imagine more than a few thousand hard core supporters coming out to rally for any prolonged period without any genuine cause to take the high moral ground. If the Government can weather this storm of protest for the time being, the PAD may just be shooting themselves in the foot and losing credibility with potential supporters who may have come out on the street at a more opportune time. Its all a game of tactics, and by taking away PADs reasons for protest The Government leaves PAD as pretty much an empty shell with no popular cause to fight. By digging in and occupying the street for a prolonged period over issues that have either been resolved or don't particularly matter to the general public, PAD runs the risk of becoming an irrelevant nuisance or something of an embarrassment to most people in Bangkok rather than their saviours as they purport to be.

PAD may just have made their run too early and lost all credibility to pick it up again at a later date.

It seems most unlikely now that the military will mount another coup over the PADs protests, and if the coalition government can hold together under the media pressure, the PAD may just have to fade away discretely and may have a difficult time raising support for future protests.

[jumnien]

"the PAD may just have to fade away discretely and may have a difficult time raising support for future protests."

Maybe, but General Chamlong and his frothing dogs are not the type to fade away. Coming from the school of "any media exposure is better than none" and thought of getting some of the 76 billion baht worth of spoils, they may be in this quite a bit longer.

[thaigene2]

[ I see one side that wins popular elections and another side that uses coups and bullcrap les majiste charges. Gee, ya know, I'll lean toward the side that wins elections. ]

I fully agree with you. PAD is just continuing to divide the country and trying to cause another coup. I wonder if these PAD people hold down any serious jobs. I support democracy and free speech but these bored and bitter PAD protesters should move on and stop causing a divide.

The PAD may be only a tiny urban minority, but their tactics have proven very effective at inciting a military coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in the very recent past. I guess they think its worth a try again since they didn't get the result they hoped for at the last elections.

Their behaviour wouldn't be tolerated in any normal western democracy.

Sure wouldn't. As I said before, the only reason they're getting away with this is because they're well-connected. They're like the fat little bully on the playground constantly challenging everyone around him - even though he's a whimp. He gets away with it because everyime someone prepares to deliver him a knuckle sandwich, his big brother shows up with a snear on both faces. Ever wonder why the PAD chose the street in front of Army HQ?

[thaigene2]

Samak should have cleared that street as promised. It was a big mistake (IMHO) to not do so - it showed real weakness. And now those guys are building a permanent stage with it's back to the Makawan Bridge and the police line.

It was either a tactical error on Samak's part, or he was warned that if he went ahead with clearing the street the army would intervene - on the side of the demostrators (essentially beginning another coup). Given he's a hard-head, I kind of doubt Samak would choose to back down to defuse tensions. Whatever the reason, he's really painted himself into a corner now - and once again a mob of a few thousand are in a position to defy the democratic will of the majority of Thai voters - until they THE MINORITY get what THEY want.

Incredible. Like I said, the Army (big brother) is most likely sitting on the balcony and laughing while they watch their little brothers out there on the street continuously kicking the shins of the majority - who's hands are apparently now tied it would seem - democracy in bondage. Shame on Thailand.

[hammered]

PAD really doesn't have much going for it at the moment, except for their stated aim of overturning the elected government.

Its hard to imagine more than a few thousand hard core supporters coming out to rally for any prolonged period without any genuine cause to take the high moral ground. If the Government can weather this storm of protest for the time being, the PAD may just be shooting themselves in the foot and losing credibility with potential supporters who may have come out on the street at a more opportune time. Its all a game of tactics, and by taking away PADs reasons for protest The Government leaves PAD as pretty much an empty shell with no popular cause to fight. By digging in and occupying the street for a prolonged period over issues that have either been resolved or don't particularly matter to the general public, PAD runs the risk of becoming an irrelevant nuisance or something of an embarrassment to most people in Bangkok rather than their saviours as they purport to be.

PAD may just have made their run too early and lost all credibility to pick it up again at a later date.

It seems most unlikely now that the military will mount another coup over the PADs protests, and if the coalition government can hold together under the media pressure, the PAD may just have to fade away discretely and may have a difficult time raising support for future protests.

Have a read of Shawn Crispin's A-Times piece. According to his analysis there almost certainly wont be a coup and that the military have other ideas on how this will all play out to their advantage. It is an intersting analysis by someone who may not always be right but certainly has his connections and an understnding of how things work. The PAD and government clashes may just be a bit of a sideshow if what he posits is accurate. The longetivity of the PAD rally really depends on how much attention the government gives to them, which of course creates media attention. A skilled and well disciplined government would pay little attention. It remains to be seen if this government has learned from its mistakes so far in handling a demonstration. It is difficult for a demonstration anywhere in the world to be maintained without drama, and it takes two sides for drama. No drama equals no media story equals no excitement equals falling numbers. Of course the government will also have to make sure that some of its more shall we say aggresive supporters also do not try to organise attack gangs, which of course immediately will create another round of (sympathetic) media coverage.

[samran]

Sure wouldn't. As I said before, the only reason they're getting away with this is because they're well-connected. They're like the fat little bully on the playground constantly challenging everyone around him - even though he's a whimp. He gets away with it because everyime someone prepares to deliver him a knuckle sandwich, his big brother shows up with a snear on both faces. Ever wonder why the PAD chose the street in front of Army HQ?

you are clutching at straws on your last point.

Ratchadamnoen Nok Rd is a pretty standard place for protesters to come in BKK. I remember last year Pro-thaksin TRT'ites were camped out there. Walked through them all, obviously up country farmers who had been paid to sit there and hold up some banners. They were there peacefully and didn't have rabble rouser PAD mobs come to intimidate them and through sh!t in their faces, like is what is happening now with PPP sympathisers attempting to increase tensions against PAD protestors. Nor did you see the PM of the day threaten to use force to remove them - despite them being in front of military HQ.

This year there has been a couple of anti-privatisation camps set up there, and barely a month goes by without some sort of march along that road, and the inevitable encampment down near the statue in front of suan amporn.

So as far as these things go, there is a pretty good track record of the place being used by all sides to protest. Or is this something that only pro-TRT mobs are allowed to do?

[thaigene2]

Ratchadamnoen Nok Rd is a pretty standard place for protesters to come in BKK. I remember last year Pro-thaksin TRT'ites were camped out there.

...

This year there has been a couple of anti-privatisation camps set up there, and barely a month goes by without some sort of march along that road, and the inevitable encampment down near the statue in front of suan amporn.

Camped in the middle of the street - for days on end?

Come on Samran, we're not talking about moving demonstrations up and down that street, or ones that temporarily close the street - you're right those happen all the time - they are allowed to and planned in advance with the approval of the authorities.

These guys are building a huge stage in the middle of the street! They're doing that becuase they know if they did in a Sanam Luang, etc, they'd get no publicity and there would be no 'drama' as someone else said above.

If it happened in any western country, it would have been allowed for a day or two, then they would have been told to move on or they would be moved - and anyone resisting that movement would be arrested. Guess what? - that indeed happens all the time.

Tear gas, handcuffs and away they go in the police wagons.

The reason it's not happening here is puzzling - and one can only guess that some powerful hidden hands are supporting these guys and making the Government pause from what would otherwise be the usual course of action in any other country.

[samran]

All of you using this forum ... you are being censored right now... TVisa ought to tell you the truth... if they don't... they are pandering to the un democratic government in power in Thailand right now. Thai Visa is covering it's own commercial ass ... take a stance people...

What are you talking about ? I can see posts from completely opposite sides in this thread.

Actually, you can post your message because there is no censor thanks to this very democratic government.

You want more ? Read the warnings on TV dated from the beginning of the coup. Do we have the same now? Absolutely no, so pls this b***s***t about censor and undemocratic government needs to stop.

Really? You obviously haven't been invited to Jakaprop's office like some of my journalist friends have and asked in a 'friendly' mannaer to lay out your pro-Thaksin credentials before you can continue to host your TV show/do news reports.

[hammered]

Samak should have cleared that street as promised. It was a big mistake (IMHO) to not do so - it showed real weakness. And now those guys are building a permanent stage with it's back to the Makawan Bridge and the police line.

It was either a tactical error on Samak's part, or he was warned that if he went ahead with clearing the street the army would intervene - on the side of the demostrators (essentially beginning another coup). Given he's a hard-head, I kind of doubt Samak would choose to back down to defuse tensions. Whatever the reason, he's really painted himself into a corner now - and once again a mob of a few thousand are in a position to defy the democratic will of the majority of Thai voters - until they THE MINORITY get what THEY want.

Incredible. Like I said, the Army (big brother) is most likely sitting on the balcony and laughing while they watch their little brothers out there on the street continuously kicking the shins of the majority - who's hands are apparently now tied it would seem - democracy in bondage. Shame on Thailand.

It seems quite likely that someone told Mr. Samak that he couldnt smash the protest, or at least that seems to be the talk at least around where I live and work. Live international TV coverage of a police assault on 10,000 or so peaceful demonstartors would not do his democratic credentials much good, which I doubt he would care about, but there are those that rely on the government not committing collective suicide right at this point in time. Remember that they lack an overall majority and rely on coalition partners and some of the talk coming from some smaller factions in the PPP itself doesnt sound overly loyal right now.

By the way, I find it odd that you think Samak should have had a peaceful demonstration to be forcibly broken up. Surely that is to undermine one of the democratic rights people have. I actually thought we were all agreed on here that the PAD, DaaD, Caravan etc all had the right to demonstrate. The demonstrators, whichever group they are, themselves cannot achieve anything other than to be noticed. They just sit and sing and paint pictures and talk and occupy small piece of road. It is only the government and how it reacts to them that can effect change.

[thaigene2]

You know the difference in what I'm posting (as well as a few other like minded people here) is that I'm NOT pro-Thaksin, pro-PPP, or pro-anything - other than pro-democracy. The people that hate TRT/PPP/Thaksin, on the other hand, are ignoring every rule that I suspect they would otherwise normally support - in an attempt to justify the unjustifiable actions of the PAD.

PPP won the election. Now please would both you and the PAD get over it.