People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[rixalex]

I said it before... there will be blood shed in Bangkok again, it's heading that way

I certainly has happened before....several times...so it seems like a real possibility for the future. Having the military take over the country every few years certainly seems like it would encourage people to think that th use of guns is appropriate.....at least with the last coup no one was shot...so maybe......but you know, realistically, don't you think that if you want to inculcate an appreciation for non-violence that it would be better if they didn't have a military coup every few years....as a starter?...don't you think that it sends the wrong message?

Chownah

And what was the message the "democratically" elected government sent when it went on its killing spree of thousands of suspected drug criminals?

[Plus]

I doubt there will be thousands of people at the first rally and it would be relatively easy for the government to nip PAD demonstrations in the bud, they might be tempted to disperse them and that could trigger much larger rallies.

Then the situation will spin out of control.

Samak has done nothing to reign in Noppadon who openly acts on behalf of Thaksin but he also can't afford to take sides in PAD-Thaksin battle - his coalition would collapse in a matter of days.

His opponents within the government would argue that coalition will collapse anyway if PAD is allowed to take over the streets but it would take a lot longer, and if he tosses Thaksin out of the window he could stay on to complete his term.

I bet there will be a lot of behind the door fights over the control of the government's response to PAD, between Samak and Newin (I think Thaksin will try everything to sneak out of the country when shit hits the fan). Samak is already isolated.

At worst it will come to a silent coup with someone like Noppadon or Jakrapob installed as acting PM backed by Thaksin's generals and invocation of emergency situation.

Then they will move on PAD in full force.

[Prakanong]

I said it before... there will be blood shed in Bangkok again, it's heading that way

What like 73, 76 or 92?

Know about that to make comparisons do you?

[Pierrot]

I doubt there will be thousands of people at the first rally and it would be relatively easy for the government to nip PAD demonstrations in the bud, they might be tempted to disperse them and that could trigger much larger rallies.

Then the situation will spin out of control.

Samak has done nothing to reign in Noppadon who openly acts on behalf of Thaksin but he also can't afford to take sides in PAD-Thaksin battle - his coalition would collapse in a matter of days.

His opponents within the government would argue that coalition will collapse anyway if PAD is allowed to take over the streets but it would take a lot longer, and if he tosses Thaksin out of the window he could stay on to complete his term.

I bet there will be a lot of behind the door fights over the control of the government's response to PAD, between Samak and Newin (I think Thaksin will try everything to sneak out of the country when shit hits the fan). Samak is already isolated.

At worst it will come to a silent coup with someone like Noppadon or Jakrapob installed as acting PM backed by Thaksin's generals and invocation of emergency situation.

Then they will move on PAD in full force.

At last we agree, it would be the best solution. Declare emergency and throw PAD leaders in jail. Also most probably total censure of the press for 6 to 12 month until people forget about them.

People didn't mind this treatment for the last 18 month, it should be ok. And we will then avoid the bloodbath that everybody seems to be afraid of.

[Tony Clifton]

I doubt there will be thousands of people at the first rally and it would be relatively easy for the government to nip PAD demonstrations in the bud, they might be tempted to disperse them and that could trigger much larger rallies.

Then the situation will spin out of control.

Samak has done nothing to reign in Noppadon who openly acts on behalf of Thaksin but he also can't afford to take sides in PAD-Thaksin battle - his coalition would collapse in a matter of days.

His opponents within the government would argue that coalition will collapse anyway if PAD is allowed to take over the streets but it would take a lot longer, and if he tosses Thaksin out of the window he could stay on to complete his term.

I bet there will be a lot of behind the door fights over the control of the government's response to PAD, between Samak and Newin (I think Thaksin will try everything to sneak out of the country when shit hits the fan). Samak is already isolated.

At worst it will come to a silent coup with someone like Noppadon or Jakrapob installed as acting PM backed by Thaksin's generals and invocation of emergency situation.

Then they will move on PAD in full force.

At last we agree, it would be the best solution. Declare emergency and throw PAD leaders in jail. Also most probably total censure of the press for 6 to 12 month until people forget about them.

People didn't mind this treatment for the last 18 month, it should be ok. And we will then avoid the bloodbath that everybody seems to be afraid of.

I`ll go take a dump now and let someone else reply to this nonsense.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[rixalex]

I doubt there will be thousands of people at the first rally and it would be relatively easy for the government to nip PAD demonstrations in the bud, they might be tempted to disperse them and that could trigger much larger rallies.

Then the situation will spin out of control.

Samak has done nothing to reign in Noppadon who openly acts on behalf of Thaksin but he also can't afford to take sides in PAD-Thaksin battle - his coalition would collapse in a matter of days.

His opponents within the government would argue that coalition will collapse anyway if PAD is allowed to take over the streets but it would take a lot longer, and if he tosses Thaksin out of the window he could stay on to complete his term.

I bet there will be a lot of behind the door fights over the control of the government's response to PAD, between Samak and Newin (I think Thaksin will try everything to sneak out of the country when shit hits the fan). Samak is already isolated.

At worst it will come to a silent coup with someone like Noppadon or Jakrapob installed as acting PM backed by Thaksin's generals and invocation of emergency situation.

Then they will move on PAD in full force.

At last we agree, it would be the best solution. Declare emergency and throw PAD leaders in jail. Also most probably total censure of the press for 6 to 12 month until people forget about them.

People didn't mind this treatment for the last 18 month, it should be ok. And we will then avoid the bloodbath that everybody seems to be afraid of.

I`ll go take a dump now and let someone else reply to this nonsense.

The only way to prevent coups and bloodbaths is to prevent criminally incline members and their parties as in TRTéPPP to run in

Yes Tony, i think taking a dump was a wise decision.

I was on the brink of responding to the nonsense myself, but became over-whelmed by exasperation at the sheer stupidity of what we seem to be faced with arguing against.

When you have someone saying that there has been total censure of the press for the last 18 months, but who fails to recognise the levels of interference effecting all forms of media that existed prior to this, it's obvious that you might just as well step outside and bang your head against a brick wall.

[Pierrot]

I don't understand you guys. You supported the previous coup under the pretence that a bloodbath was averted. Now I'm with you and that the way you receive me? Utterly disappointed, that's what I am guys, utterly disappointed. I think I will move back to the other side.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Pierrot

[A_Traveller]

But your methodology leaves much to be desired. As opposed to trying to find a way, primarily open, you suggest a return to the old ways of keeping truth and discussion out of the public domain. PPP have show already they are aiming for the media here with both barrels. Jakob's request that the media concentrate on positive stories is but the start, after all TRT used their considerable advertising budget pull, through such companies as AIS to ensure a more compliant press.

Regards

[rixalex]

I don't understand you guys. You supported the previous coup under the pretence that a bloodbath was averted. Now I'm with you and that the way you receive me? Utterly disappointed, that's what I am guys, utterly disappointed. I think I will move back to the other side.

Back to the circus might not be a bad idea.

[Pierrot]

I don't understand you guys. You supported the previous coup under the pretence that a bloodbath was averted. Now I'm with you and that the way you receive me? Utterly disappointed, that's what I am guys, utterly disappointed. I think I will move back to the other side.

Back to the circus might not be a bad idea.

If reason fails, try derision ....

[Plus]

At last we agree, it would be the best solution. Declare emergency and throw PAD leaders in jail.

If the civil war is your goal, then yes.

[rixalex]

I don't understand you guys. You supported the previous coup under the pretence that a bloodbath was averted. Now I'm with you and that the way you receive me? Utterly disappointed, that's what I am guys, utterly disappointed. I think I will move back to the other side.

Back to the circus might not be a bad idea.

If reason fails, try derision ....

Reasoning never seemed to exist in your case. You make comments which are completely unsubstantiated. Take our exchange yesterday for example. I asked for some sort of proof, any sort of proof, to the statement that the military had robbed the country. You just completely ignored answering. Maybe now you've had 24 hours you feel ready to respond with some constructive reasoning behind your claim. That's all i'm asking.

[traveller5000]

I was on the brink of responding to the nonsense myself, but became over-whelmed by exasperation at the sheer stupidity of what we seem to be faced with arguing against.

haha, good to see i'm not alone in my exasperation.

[chownah]

I said it before... there will be blood shed in Bangkok again, it's heading that way

I certainly has happened before....several times...so it seems like a real possibility for the future. Having the military take over the country every few years certainly seems like it would encourage people to think that th use of guns is appropriate.....at least with the last coup no one was shot...so maybe......but you know, realistically, don't you think that if you want to inculcate an appreciation for non-violence that it would be better if they didn't have a military coup every few years....as a starter?...don't you think that it sends the wrong message?

Chownah

And what was the message the "democratically" elected government sent when it went on its killing spree of thousands of suspected drug criminals?

Exactly my point.....violence is a way too acceptable approach to problem solving here....most Thais really don't have an issue with the drug related killings...for Thais it is mostly a non-issuo....which is sad....if the police stood by and watched (and even helped I guess) while peacefully demonstrating students were massacred then what's a few people involved in the drug trade?....the Thai people are to a degree insensitive to violence and having a military coup every few years certainly doesn't help in my opinion.

Chownah

[thedude]

Has PAD not hurt the country enough?

by M.L. Nattakorn DEVAKULA

PAD the Sequel: It is like seeing a bunch of disgruntled losers

assemble for a purpose which serves only to extend their own

existence.

The irrelevant press conference which the People's Alliance for

Democracy (PAD) held this past Monday - their first official notice

since temporarily disbanding back in October 2006 - was supposed to

signal to all of us politically aware people that the band was once

again back together.

...

full article:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/280208_News/28Feb2008_news25.php

[A_Traveller]

By the by this piece is from the self described news analyst, ML Nattakorn Devakula, who will shortly be on the move screen as, to quote his own emailed publicity, Thailand''s answer to Brad Pitt! I kid you not. I noted in the trailer the Nissan Tiida turns up too so he's carrying out his brand ambassador role as well.

Regards

[quatsch]

By the by this piece is from the self described news analyst, ML Nattakorn Devakula, who will shortly be on the move screen as, to quote his own emailed publicity, Thailand''s answer to Brad Pitt! I kid you not. I noted in the trailer the Nissan Tiida turns up too so he's carrying out his brand ambassador role as well.

Regards

If you can't attack the message, then just attack the messenger.

What about the points regarding legitimacy, accountability and mandate of the so called PAD the writer has raised in his text?

As well as the personal attacks against the so called PAD's leaders?

Or are we so entrenched in idology that we can't see the forest for the trees anymore?

[A_Traveller]

The piece is, at best, contrived and factual inaccurate. This is the hallmark of this individual's work, as was noted to me, if he wasn't who he was {by family} no one would take the slightest bit of notice. However, as part of a long term campaign to both get noticed and to show to specific interest groups that he's 'one of them' it links in with his other pieces. I'm rather busy in the analogue presently, but if the new poster, by the by welcome, would care to search herein, answers are here.

Regards

PS Is he just a messenger, I do wonder that too.

Edited March 9, 2008 by A_Traveller

[quatsch]

The piece is, at best, contrived and factual inaccurate. This is the hallmark of this individual's work, as was noted to me, if he wasn't who he was {by family} no one would take the slightest bit of notice. However, as part of a long term campaign to both get noticed and to show to specific interest groups that he's 'one of them' it links in with his other pieces. I'm rather busy in the analogue presently, but if the new poster, by the by welcome, would care to search herein, answers are here.

Regards

PS Is he just a messenger, I do wonder that too.

Factually inaccurate?

Would you mind pointing these inaccuracies out, please?

This obviously is not an academic paper but a commentary, but there are more than a few research papers around by various scholars that do criticise the PAD along very similar lines, although more indepth than a newspaper could give space.

So, list the inaccuracies, please, instead of just the writers inadequacies.

Edited March 9, 2008 by quatsch

[Plus]

I remember in PAD days Nattakon was fiercly attacking Thaksin, I don't think he was explicitly pro-PAD but it certainly looked so.

Now this piece - he might be right in downgrading PAD leaders, and, as I said many times, individually they really don't amount to much, they were big only because they expressed the will of millions of anti-Thaksin Thais. Today the situation is different. I also agree that PAD is a bit of a misnomer - first and foremost it was alliance against Thaksin.

However, the social forces behind it, let's call them "middle classes", have aspirations extending a lot further than ousting one little dictator. They want accountability of the government, they want transparency and integrity, they want the government that makes sense. Nattakon is dead scared of that.

He is a "messenger" for big business and these people have their own agenda. When Thaksin served it well, he was acceptable. When he turned paranoid and created all this political mess they turned their backs on him. They abhor people like Samak or old Democrats, but for their incomptence, not for their ideology. They think they are the cream of the nation, the new elites. They want the country for themselves, shielded by skillful politicians like Thaksin from public scrutiny.

Middle classes are their enemy, subservient peasants and Thaksin style democracy is their weapon.

[younghusband]

By the by this piece is from the self described news analyst, ML Nattakorn Devakula, who will shortly be on the move screen as, to quote his own emailed publicity, Thailand''s answer to Brad Pitt! I kid you not. I noted in the trailer the Nissan Tiida turns up too so he's carrying out his brand ambassador role as well.

Regards

I can't remember ever seeing a newspaper article, whether generally perceptive or not, covering an area that I had some knowledge of that didn't have a few inaccuracies or misplaced emphases.Yet the reaction to ML Nattakorn's article on PAD is quite interesting, I suspect because he touches on one or two uncomfortable truths.The reactions range from the fatuous namecalling as detailed above or Plus's more thoughtful comments on the role of the middle class.Surely the key point in the consideration of PAD's new role is that the set of circumstances that gave it original legitimacy simply don't exist at the moment and that the way to influence or reject the current government should be through constitutional means.It's the same old recipe.

[chownah]

The piece is, at best, contrived and factual inaccurate. This is the hallmark of this individual's work, as was noted to me, if he wasn't who he was {by family} no one would take the slightest bit of notice. However, as part of a long term campaign to both get noticed and to show to specific interest groups that he's 'one of them' it links in with his other pieces. I'm rather busy in the analogue presently, but if the new poster, by the by welcome, would care to search herein, answers are here.

Regards

PS Is he just a messenger, I do wonder that too.

Factually inaccurate?

Would you mind pointing these inaccuracies out, please?

This obviously is not an academic paper but a commentary, but there are more than a few research papers around by various scholars that do criticise the PAD along very similar lines, although more indepth than a newspaper could give space.

So, list the inaccuracies, please, instead of just the writers inadequacies.

Yes, please, do list the inaccuracies. I'm not trying to argue....I would like to know what facts were claimed that are in error....I wouldn't want to be misled by the inaccuracies...really.

Chownah

Edited March 10, 2008 by chownah

[clausewitz]

Unauthorized posting of full text from post 257

[Pierrot]

Well written post clausewitz, I wish we could read more like this.

I am 100% with you.

[sriracha john]

M.L. NATTAKORN DEVAKULA

Source?

Well written post clausewitz

*Edit... nevermind, I see Nattakorn is clausewitz.

Edited March 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[thedude]

Is Thai Visa's relationship with The Nation affecting its ability to be politically neutral?

Are certain members of ThaiVisa actually working for The Nation?

The frantic adherence to copyright policy is otherwise very admirable.

[sbk]

Is Thai Visa's relationship with The Nation affecting its ability to be politically neutral?

Are certain members of ThaiVisa actually working for The Nation?

The frantic adherence to copyright policy is otherwise very admirable.

The Bangkok Post has expressly forbidden full reprints of their articles and insists on only the first 3 sentences or so and a link to the article. The Nation has no such requirements and allows full reprints.

Back to the topic at hand and away from OTT conspiracy theories

[sriracha john]

^

=============================================================================

It's not the PAD, but I could see a similar desire in this group to seek justice...

People's Assembly Protests Against Transfer of of Buriram's Deputy Police Commander

Representatives of the Peoples Assembly in the Northeast have demanded the reinstatement of Buriram provinces Deputy Police Commander. They claim he was moved to protect local politicians and will stage a protest if the decision is not reversed within 15 days.

President of the Northeastern branch of the Peoples Assembly Chaiwat Sinsuwong and former Yasothorn Senator Somboon Tonguran stated that the assembly has decided to officially protest the transfer of Buriram Deputy Police Commander Police Colonel Sungworn Pupaichitkul to Sri Saket province.

The assembly is handing an official complaint to the Region 3 Police and will make the same complaint to the National Police Office.

Chaiwat claims that since Police Colonel Sungworn is also a member of the Election Commissions investigative committee, many high profile cases he is handling could be affected. The people who will benefit from his transfer are allegedly corrupt local politicians who are under investigation.

Chaiwat says officials are being given 15 days to reconsider the matter. The assembly will then decide on a further course of action, which could result in a major protest against the transfer order.

Meanwhile, reports also indicate that Buriram Police Commander Police Colonel Sommai Kongvisaisuk could soon be transferred as well.

- Thailand Outlook

============================================================================

The Nation is more direct in it's implications...

Justice pledged for transferred official

The Election Commission yesterday vowed to give justice to a Buriram provincial Deputy Police Chief.

EC member Prapan Naikowit said Pol Colonel Sangworn Poopaijitkul, also a provincial EC member, had been transferred to an inactive post in Si Sa Ket on March 3.

The EC will check whether he was transferred for political reasons for carrying out his duties as a commission member. "If we ignore his plight, no one will want to work for the EC," Prapan said.

Sangworn is also in charge of the case against Chai Chidchob - father of Newin Chidchob - who has been accused of encroaching on forestland.

- The Nation

===============================================================================

additonal footnote to the above.

The Buriram EC, included the transferred Sanworn, were responsible for red-carding all three Buriram People Power Party's winners... which were subsequently won by Matchima Thipathai party candidates. A real thorn in Newin's side no doubt.

Edited March 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[Pierrot]

I don't understand you guys. You supported the previous coup under the pretence that a bloodbath was averted. Now I'm with you and that the way you receive me? Utterly disappointed, that's what I am guys, utterly disappointed. I think I will move back to the other side.

Back to the circus might not be a bad idea.

If reason fails, try derision ....

Reasoning never seemed to exist in your case. You make comments which are completely unsubstantiated. Take our exchange yesterday for example. I asked for some sort of proof, any sort of proof, to the statement that the military had robbed the country. You just completely ignored answering. Maybe now you've had 24 hours you feel ready to respond with some constructive reasoning behind your claim. That's all i'm asking.

Fair request.

I replied on the original thread.

[sriracha john]

It's a good thing, even if he was a member or not of the Roi-Et Tiddlywinks Association, that they attempt to focus attention on all these retributive acts that are occurring with the new government.

Edited March 10, 2008 by sriracha john