Uk Child Born Out Of Wedlock

[Keelan]

Hi there,

I have two children both born before the 2006 cutoff date for fathers applying for child passports.

My eldest was born out of wedlock, the little b@stard.

Anyway after he was born we did get married before our second child.

I and my wife are planning a trip to England and I read somewhere on here that it would save our family alot of trouble if they had passports because then I could go to Bangkok with just my wife for visas (right now we are living in Phuket and Krabi provinces).

I have read alot of the pinned stuff and it has been very helpful up to the point where I was ready to send all the original documents

via EMS (with copies at home just in case). Neither child has been registered as being born with the English Embassy but they both have Thai birth certificates with my name on them.

One other small problem is when we got married they spelled my surname in Thai Smith when it should have been Smyth.

We have had these translated into English at a certified translation office with all the correct stamps. This shouldn't cause a problem should it.

Finally a countersignatory. Can they be located in Thailand and if they run a buisness and used to work for a highly respected investment bank will that do?

I hope you can help me because time is running out (School Holidays) and once I get the kids passports then I can move onto the next headache which is the wifes visa. She has been to the UK twice before, once with my eldest son so hopefully that counts for something.

Thanks for all your help, you have already helped my get my birth certificate sent over so fingers crossed I have everything.

Keelan

[the scouser]

The slight misspelling of your name shouldn't be a problem, and the countersignatory can be in Thailand.

Scouse.

[Keelan]

The slight misspelling of your name shouldn't be a problem, and the countersignatory can be in Thailand.

Scouse.

Thanks for the swift reply.

What about the fact my son was born out of wedlock. Does this propose a problem at all?

Should I bring my wife with me (so to show I am not kidnapping the child (god forbid)).

Are there other documents I need for this type of UK child app out of wedlock or is it the same C2 document?

Can I send it without visiting Bangkok.

Thanks Scouse,

You are a diamond.

Keelan

[Keelan]

A friend told me it takes 6 months to go through the IPS to get a childs citizenship and I can't get this passport for my kids in 2-4 weeks.

He is adamant about this and I am slightly worried although I read on the British Embassy Thailand website that I CAN do this in 2-4 weeks.

10-15 days it says plus maybe 5 days for the birth certificate. This is well within our framework for our travel but he has put the hoobiejeebies (my word isn't probably acceptable on this website).

Please advise...

Yours getting abnormal bathroom visits...

Keelan

[the scouser]

Your subsequent marriage should have legitimised your elder child's birth. However, they used to ask in such cases that a domicile questionnaire be completed, but I don't see the relevance of that any longer, especially as your younger child will have acquired British citizenship automatically.

The IPS doesn't deal with citizenship matters: only passports. It currently takes 6 weeks for a first adult passport as the applicant has to have an interview, but they don't interview children as yet.

Scouse.

[Keelan]

Hi Scouse,

You have made me so much more relaxed with your informed help.

I am ready to send all the documents in the post.

Is there anything else you can think of before I do send them?

Should I write a letter informing them that although my son was born out of wedlock we are now married or are they pretty efficient?

Today we will get the photos done.

I was worried about this section but you seem to think it is alright.

"British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior to 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. Please note this is discretionary. Those applying should expect to receive a decision in approximately 4 months. The fee for this will be £400 payable in local currency plus a Consular forwarding fee of Baht 3,835. Please ask us for form MN1 or obtain it from the Border and Immigration Agency.

You will require an appointment."

Yes we are married now so it should be ok not to go through this additional trouble and time?

"

British fathers are unable to automatically transmit their nationality to children born outside of marriage before 1 July 2006 (see below). If the parents marry after the child’s birth, it is possible that the child’s birth will be “legitimated” by the parents’ marriage. In order for us to establish whether or not legitimation has taken place, both parents need to sign paternity declarations in person at the Embassy and the father to complete a “domicile questionnaire”. Please ask for the paternity declaration forms. "

Do we have to do this though? This would require I and my wife to visit the embassy I think.

Seeing as we only have the Songkran holliday to get the passports will this delay our application for the kids passports?

Thanks again,

Keelan

[farangmal]

The slight misspelling of your name shouldn't be a problem, and the countersignatory can be in Thailand.

Scouse.

Thanks for the swift reply.

What about the fact my son was born out of wedlock. Does this propose a problem at all?

Should I bring my wife with me (so to show I am not kidnapping the child (god forbid)).

Are there other documents I need for this type of UK child app out of wedlock or is it the same C2 document?

Can I send it without visiting Bangkok.

Thanks Scouse,

You are a diamond.

Keelan

Our first child was born out of wedlock. He was born in Pattaya in June 2005 and when we took him to the UK, immigration service said he wasn't entitled to a British passport until His Mother got hers!

I did a bit of research on the net and called the Nationality checking service at the Home Office and they said He had an 'Automatic claim' to a British passport because we had since Married and shown commitment.

Off topic but I believe thet Ronnie Biggs Married His Brazilian lover in an English jail so his son could get a British passport. He got one and can travel freely in and out of the Uk to visit his Father.

Anyhow, I took our UK Marriage cert, my sons birth certificate (and translation) along with signed photos and all the rest to the passport office. They made a few phone calls, then came back and said he would have his UK passport within one week.

He did.

I didn't have to fill in no domicile questionare or nothing.

We now have a second child, born in Wedlock in the UK and have to try and get her a Thai passport now!

Edited March 3, 2008 by farangmal

[the scouser]

Keelan,

The section you quoted from the embassy website relates to those fathers whose children were born before 1 July 2006 and whose parents are still unmarried. Your subsequent marriage to your child's mother will have legitimised the birth.

Scouse.

[farangmal]

Keelan,

The section you quoted from the embassy website relates to those fathers whose children were born before 1 July 2006 and whose parents are still unmarried. Your subsequent marriage to your child's mother will have legitimised the birth.

Scouse.

What really annoys me is that a lot of people in the UK immigration and PEO don't seem to know this. Or they didn't in August 2006 anyhow.

I have emails bouncing back and forward from the Bangkok UK Embassy saying...yes your Son's entitled to a British passport and emails from UK immigration saying he's not. One chap in Immigration in Liverpool Ali S**h was adament He couldn't get a British passport. When he got one I emailed Him again telling him this.

The reply was this is no longer an immigration matter I can be of no further help to you!

Even the people in the Public Enquiry Office said to me...we must be giving out the wrong advice then, mustn't we?

I wasn't very impressed with the knowledge or competence of people working in immigration in the UK.

You seem to know more.

[Keelan]

Thanks guys,

A small number of questions.

1. Upon filling in the forms for real I have the C2 form and am wondering if I need to fill in Part 2 'Mothers Details' because it is the father who is making the application. Also at the end it says Parent's marriage; I take it that is our marriage not my parents marriage?

2. Also for the last part of this form it says Child's signature 12-15. My kids are 7 and 3. Do I get them to put in a thumbprint which I guess I could do at the local police station. Otherwise I can't see that I can make the entire application via post as I had hoped.

3. As part of the Application for their passports I have to fill in the Application to Register an Overseas Birth. My detail are pretty much easy. My wife never had a Thai birth certificate as she was born at home and they never registered her birth. Eventually she got an ID card issued with a date close to that of her actual birth date put on there (no one knows the exact day she was born!?). Do I have to fill this in and do I just do my best at filling it in (using the date on the ID card and passport).

4. Do I need have her passport translated into English or her ID card translated as part of the stuff to include with the forms?

Lastly,

I am sending it all together, both applications for both kids (4 in total), my birth certificate verifying I am an English citizen and so are my parents. Also sending marriage document and translation. Both kids and my wifes passports and old passports (Thai). Both Kids birth certificates in Thai and also translated into English at a certified translation service. Two passport photos of each child with one countersigned.

Payment would be 14755 X 2 for Birth Registrations

Also 4940 X 2 for Child Passports

This makes 39390.

Plus 100 baht for EMS or 200 baht for EMS (2 passports and birth registrations).

Hoping you can dot the i for me before I take the plunge.

Would you recommend with my circumstances that I and my wife travel to bangkok? It is not convienient but if it made the difference between getting it done and missing our passports and holiday we would get my wifes sister to come down from Udon.

Thanks for all your time and all your patience.

Am I forgetting anything.

[torrenova]

I can't specifically talk about births prior to the 2006 cut off date but you do not need to pay the 10k+ for registration in order to get the passport. You need the same documentation.

[Keelan]

Hi,

I think I need the birth registration in order to get the passport. As for the births before 2006 I don't think thats an issue since we are married (Thai) since then and still are as Scouse mentioned earlier

Although I am still concerned about the numbered points.

Hoping Scouse will log and reply since he is the 'GO TO GUY' for sure.

If I am ever in Pataya drinks are on me matey!

I read he works a long day on Monday so I am patient.

His timely and well informed musings are gospel to me.

I fully intend to visit the local Wat and make tremendous amounts of merit on his behalf.

Take it easy fellas and fellerettes,

Keelan

Edited March 3, 2008 by Keelan

[the scouser]

You are under no obligation to register your children's births at the embassy. Their website states:-

Birth registration is not compulsory, but we recommend it. The advantages are that

A British style birth certificate is available as proof of identity and proof of nationality.

A record of the birth will afterwards be held at the General Register Office in the United Kingdom. In the future, copies can be obtained from the General Register Office.

Whether you go with that is your call. Just applying for the passports could save you 29000 baht.

You should sign the forms on you children's behalf, and do include the mother's details on the form C2. In relation to the documents you intend to send, you should only need your birth certificate, the kids' birth certificates and translations, and your marriage certificate and translation, but there's no harm in sending all the stuff you've lsited just to be on the safe side. Indeed, the kids' Thai passports provide an extra piece of identity which the embassy may find useful. Whether you wish to go in person is really your call. I think by post you can reasonably expect a response from the embassy within two weeks.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

I've just noticed that the embassy also asks to see your passport, too. I doubt their need to see this, but if you want to avoid any hiccoughs, you might want to send it off with the other documents.

Scouse.

[lioness]

Off the subject I know - frarangmai, I thought Ronnie Briggs died ages ago???

[Keelan]

Hey,

Thanks Scouse,

I think its all in order now.

The more the merrier and you can't send too much stuff should they not need it.

I can now sleep.....

You have done me the world of good.

I will let you know how everything turns out.

Keelan

[farangmal]

Off the subject I know - frarangmai, I thought Ronnie Briggs died ages ago???

Maybe Ronnie Briggs is dead..I don't know.

But Ronnie Biggs the great train robber (08/08/1929) is 78 years old and alive and being looked after by her Majesty.

Here's the link to what I posted..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2278889.stm

The son of train robber Ronnie Biggs has been granted British citizenship. The decision comes after the Home Office initially refused to let Michael Biggs stay in the UK.

Mr Biggs, who is Brazilian by birth, was granted citizenship on the day his mother married his father in July in a prison ceremony, it has emerged.

Edited March 4, 2008 by farangmal

[Keelan]

Hi Guys n Gals,

Sorry to let you know but my son WAS rejected on the basis that we were not married when we had him.

We went to the embassy with all the documents in triplicate but no dice.

I now have to fill in a domicile form which I haven't had time to look at.

I don't even know what it is.

Anyway now I need to apply for an ordainary visa for my son as well as my wife, c'est la vie.

My question is when applying for my Thai wife's visa can I apply for a family visit visa or do they need to be blood relatives?

On the form I would fill out relationship - husbands mother (i.e. mother in law).

Is this good enough or would I be better off applying for a tourist visa for my wife and a family visa for my Thai (no English passport) son so he can write relationship - grandmother.

Thanks,

Keelan

[the scouser]

Keelan,

From the circumstances you've described, your son wasn't rejected as such, but you've been asked to complete the domicile questionnaire. If you are decreed as being domiciled in the UK, then your son will have an entitlement to British citizenship. In this instance domicile relates not to where you live but the ties you have to the UK.

Both your wife and son will be making family visits to the UK.

Scouse.

[Tomkagai]

Guys,

Just to relate a little story along similar lines...had a mate here who had a child out of wedlock in Thailand, and the mother died...he went through 16 months of hel_l with the clowns in UK to eventually get a British passport for the kid, up to the point of getting his MP in the UK involved...but he stuck to his guns and eventually sorted out....

So hope everything works out

[PattayaParent]

Keelan,

From the circumstances you've described, your son wasn't rejected as such, but you've been asked to complete the domicile questionnaire. If you are decreed as being domiciled in the UK, then your son will have an entitlement to British citizenship. In this instance domicile relates not to where you live but the ties you have to the UK.

Both your wife and son will be making family visits to the UK.

Scouse.

Scouse, is this domicile issue only applicable to children born out of wedlock?

I ask because I am attempting to obtain non-domicile status from UK but my child already has a UK passport and was born in wedlock. Would my non-domicile status affect her future ability to obtain a UK passport (wife is a non-domiciled non-UK citizen).

[the scouser]

Scouse, is this domicile issue only applicable to children born out of wedlock?

Yes, and I don't see why they are still requiring completion of the domicile questionnaire in such cases, as since 1 July 2006 unmarried British fathers have been able to transmit their nationality more or less without question. It seems perverse for the embassy to be effectively saying that now-married fathers of children born out of wedlock prior to 1 July 2006 have to prove their domicile, but illegitimate children born on or after this date automatically acquire British citizenship.

Scouse.

[Keelan]

Hey,

Out of the blue my mother died three days ago after flying back with me from Bangkok to Phuket.

Her repatriation is underway and I could maybe fast track the visas but since the object of the visit was to see my mum we are giving up on the idea for now. The funeral will be in a couple of weeks i guess.

Is it possible to apply for my sons British birth certificate and passport whilst I am alone back in the UK?

I will take all the documents I would of taken for the visas (passport photos, birth certs, marriage certs, familys thai passports etc etc) and is it any easier?

In the meantime I will need to sort my father out as a new sponsor and at the same time I will be sending money to my wifes bank account to show she has a history of bank activity for our application probably next year.

Life's a bitch sometimes.

Have a large beer on my mother.

Keelan

[the scouser]

Sorry to hear about your mother.

You won't be able to apply for your son's birth certificate in the UK. If he is with you, he can apply for his UK passport from within the UK, though.

Scouse.

[Keelan]

Thanks again for the help,

I fly back to the UK in a few days and will be stuck there sorting out my mother's affairs.

When I get back can I apply for my son (born out of wedlock pending a domicile form and larger sized head on passport) without my wife having to fly to Bangkok to meet me?

Assuming I have new passport photos and my wife has filled in her part of the domicile form.

Should I fill it out for her in English and get her to sign it?

Cheers

Keelan

P.S. I am moving all my money over to Thai as soon as possible now with this pissy card readers all the banks are handing out. I must say what a complete pain in the arse.

[the scouser]

There's no reason why you can't take everything with you and stop off in Bangkok on the way back.

Scouse.