Thai Literature

[Ulysses G.]

If Juliet is her real age, Romeo will be a child molester!

[thaihome]

Why is ethnocentrism bad?

TH

[sceadugenga]

Anyone who's been around since the 1950's will tell you that 90% of people stopped reading when TV came in.

Good literature is what you enjoy. Great literature is what they made you read at school. (Apart from Steinbeck).

Maybe the U.S. is better about that. Most of the older authors and titles that I've mentioned as "modern classics" - like Salinger, Heller and Hemingway - were required reading when I was growing up. Teachers in the U.S. looked for books that students would actually enjoy. That is one reason that I fell in love with reading.

Try as I may I can't recall much of what I read at school other than Shakespeare. A short memoir by Arthur Grimble called "A Pattern of Islands" was excellent and firmly planted the desire to see what's over the next hill in me.

Henry Lawson was worth reading also.

[Ulysses G.]

The last things that I can remember having to read in University were the Great Gatsby and the biography of Zelda Fitgerald (F, Scott's wife). I really enjoyed both and later re-read them at least once for pleasure.

[rch1023]

You could say the same about most western cultures. I'd be interested to see how many UK households have Trollope, Austen or any of the English classics on their shelves...

Don't be absurd, of course we don't! But like the best china, it's nice for us Brits to know it is there.

No one would dream of actually using it

And why has no one mentioned Shakespeare?

Or Dickens for that matter. Britain, US and Europe have authors of classic literature known the world over. Has Thailand, I don't think so. How many Thais do you see with their noses in books for hours on end, it's more likely childrens comics.

This is all very complex.

Firstly, my parents had a lot of books, and encouraged me to read, so I did; my wife likewise. Few of our friends in England has a coffee-table's worth of books, let alone a bookshelf. When we left England for Thailand, we had to scrap something like 3000 books - having sold the best on E-bay - no charity shop wanted them. The piffling populace is largely uninterested in reading.

Secondly, I have been privileged to teach some of the cream of Thai society. Many of them are very intelligent, and most of them would do credit to an Englsih grammar school, at the very least. And yet few of them seem to have come from a family which values reading. Just like England. I sense that an appreciation of the things that make literature what it is, requires the bedrock of a family that reads, and an early and wide exposure to the material. And this is a rare condition in an age of constant TV and computer distraction.

Thirdly, remember, the majority of everything published was originally published in English. Good literature in any other language has to compete with translations of the best of English work. This means that good literature in languages other than English are more difficult to find, particularly as they may not yet have been thought worth translating.

Your man with his head in a book == Roger

[Jingthing]

There is no shame in it. Thailand isn't big on reading. It doesn't have a great opera company. It is not rocking the world of live theater. Acceptance is a wonderful thing.

[Austhaied]

There is no shame in it. Thailand isn't big on reading. It doesn't have a great opera company. It is not rocking the world of live theater. Acceptance is a wonderful thing.

Very well said.

It's a pity that most of the "farang" population here don't "get it". But hey, i can accept that as well.

[DavidOxon]

Hi all . . . .

this is an interesting post.

Sometime last year I asked my University educated (CM English degree)

keen reading (English language novels) Thai wife about Thai literature.

She couldn't name a single Thai author or Story. No equivalent to Shakespeare, Dickens, or Hemmingway.

The only thing she could come up with was something about a fish goddess.

So maybe 'Thai lit' isn't on the Thai schooling syllabus?

Not sure what this actually adds to the post . . . .

just my 2/-'s worth.

David

[KhaoNiaw]

I think the novel is a fairly recent addition to Thai literary tradition.

As has been pointed out already, most people seem to be using English translations or Thai authors who write in English as a frame of reference, perhaps not even understanding which is which. Sightseeing, for example is not a translation of a Thai novel, but a collection of short stories written in English.

For good Thai writers, take a look at Thai SEAWrite award winners (there must be a list somewhere). Win Liewwarin, for example, is a fine writer.

There are a couple of lists of recommended works that are, presumably, considered good Thai literature. Though I've not seen much evidence that schools make use of the books here.

100 books that Thais should read

100 books that should be read by children and young Thais

[Jingjok]

just my 2/-'s worth.

Wow! a florin! I haven't seen one of then since '69.

[AdultGolfer]

however, the fact that you are reading a translation seems to escape you. as talented as the translator is, you are only getting a second hand view of the author. how can you possibly judge the prose of the book through a translation? english and thai are very different languages.

This is exactly my point as well, unless you can read Thai fluently then you simply can not judge this literature, it is impossible. That is why claiming to know how good an author is after reading a translation of their work is just laughable.

I know that norwegian and english are much closer as languages - and in cultural terms - but there ARE a lot of differences. I have read many norwegian books both in norwegian and in english - and read many english books in both english and in norwegian. And in my experience not much is "lost in translation". Professional translators are very clever people.

That good literature can only be "judged" in it's original language is just laughable... it is something only a snob would think.

-AG

[AdultGolfer]

however, the fact that you are reading a translation seems to escape you. as talented as the translator is, you are only getting a second hand view of the author. how can you possibly judge the prose of the book through a translation? english and thai are very different languages.

This is exactly my point as well, unless you can read Thai fluently then you simply can not judge this literature, it is impossible. That is why claiming to know how good an author is after reading a translation of their work is just laughable.

I know that norwegian and english are much closer as languages - and in cultural terms - but there ARE a lot of differences. I have read many norwegian books both in norwegian and in english - and read many english books in both english and in norwegian. And in my experience not much is "lost in translation". Professional translators are very clever people.

That good literature can only be "judged" in it's original language is just laughable... it is something only a snob would think.

-AG

And before some cleverdick, with emphasis on dick, asks me why I have read many books in both english and norwegian: I was a bit of an immature snob in my youth - and I also wanted to find out for myself if there was anything to this "you have to read an author in his original language"-BS.

-AG

[Xangsamhua]

however, the fact that you are reading a translation seems to escape you. as talented as the translator is, you are only getting a second hand view of the author. how can you possibly judge the prose of the book through a translation? english and thai are very different languages.

This is exactly my point as well, unless you can read Thai fluently then you simply can not judge this literature, it is impossible. That is why claiming to know how good an author is after reading a translation of their work is just laughable.

I know that norwegian and english are much closer as languages - and in cultural terms - but there ARE a lot of differences. I have read many norwegian books both in norwegian and in english - and read many english books in both english and in norwegian. And in my experience not much is "lost in translation". Professional translators are very clever people.

That good literature can only be "judged" in it's original language is just laughable... it is something only a snob would think.

-AG

And before some cleverdick, with emphasis on dick, asks me why I have read many books in both english and norwegian: I was a bit of an immature snob in my youth - and I also wanted to find out for myself if there was anything to this "you have to read an author in his original language"-BS.

-AG

I don't know if I'm a snob or not, but I would think the closeness of Norwegian and English - culturally and linguistically, despite the differences - is significant, not something to be brushed aside. The cultural and linguistic differences between Thai and English are certainly significant, too. These are bound to impact on the authenticity of a translation, regardless of the competency of the translator.

It's not that translations are worthless, but that they are a different artifact from the original and, hence, can't be judged on the same criteria.

[Ulysses G.]

All I can say is that "The Stranger" by Camus, seems to be a great book in any language.

[appleman]

The Ramayana's relationship to the Ramakian is similar to way the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh is related to the Biblical version of the flood. Joseph Campbell writes in The Hero Has a Thousand Faces about how so many myths from various cultures are related. These myths are later changed and adapted to the cultures that adopted them, but at their base are the same stories. If you are interested in a good read, illustrated by hundreds of beautiful temple rubbings from Wat Po, check out John Cadet's The Ramakian.

[Jingthing]

Regarding translations, a good translation is often in many ways an act of creative writing because with novels so much of the richness is often stylistic. So I don't think it is a matter of snobbery to be aware of the difference between the original and the translation. Some of my most intense reading experiences in my life were of Dostoevsky's novels in English. I am certain they reflect a great writer but I am also certain the experience would have been different in Russian. If he had not attracted translators who were also excellent writers in their own right, I can imagine not being very impressed. This is why many great literary figures have also done alot of translation work, and paying the bills didn't hurt either.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Jingthing

[Nysan]

How come that libraries are quite rare in Thailand? Do thai prefer to buy thier books?

How many fulltime writers are there in Thailand? I mean there are about 60 milion people in this nation so there are bound to be some writers who have their writing as a living.

[AdultGolfer]

>Xangsamhua:

>It's not that translations are worthless, but that they are a different artifact from the original and, hence, can't be judged on the same criteria.

I agree that they are different - but not to the degree you and others seem to think. If I were to put this into numbers, then I think good translations are 95% identical to the original - while I have the impression that you and those that think like you would put this number at something like 50%.

-AG

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

"How come that libraries are quite rare in Thailand? Do thai prefer to buy thier books?"

Now that might be valid in most of Thailand, but for us fortunate folks in Pattaya, there is a great library on Soi 6. Similar to the library of Congress, or the one in Alexandria. So there!

As for translations, the closer the languages, the better the results, quite obviously (given a talented translator). But if you take ANY GREAT NOVEL, and give it to a gifted translator, it will still be GREAT. Perhaps not fully as in the original, but close.

[bendix]

Inspired by this thread, I've bought and read a few Thai novels in English translation recently. Chart Korbjitti is very good. The Judgement was a great read, as was No Way Out. I've bought Time, but haven't started it yet. Kampoon Boontawee's classic Luk Isaan or Child of the NorthEast is good too. Not a classic in the western standard perhaps, but very enjoyable nonetheless.

[uptou]

Some of my most intense reading experiences in my life were of Dostoevsky's novels in English.

Crime & Punishment made a big impression on me.

It was an easy flowing read aswell.Maybe its also possible that the original russian version is hard going????

[Ulysses G.]

It is probably very simular to the English version.