Cheap Charlies?

[KevinHunt]

I may be wrong but..... it seems to me that a lot of threads are enquiring about the cheapest this or that rather than best. Or even if the thread asks about the best (eg best food in Chiang Mai) someone ends up recommending the cheapest (a 10 baht restaurant can't be offering the best food, can it?).

This begs the question..

Is Chiang Mai full of cheap Charlies?

This isn't intended to be taken too seriously!! Just an observation.

By the way, a search for 'cheap' on the forum found 18 pages, but it is limited to first 1000?

Edited March 4, 2008 by KevinHUNT

[Jingthing]

Maybe they are just poor.

[swain]

Maybe they are just poor.

I think more they are people that have moved here to retire... and did so with a limited budget. Now that the baht is going through this correction, and inflation has hit the 20 percent mark. I think these conversations on saving money will be intensified. Its great to be young and have the world as your oyster. But you too will get older... and you may think you have the world on a string.. but fortunes change and anything can happen... Murphy's law applies here. If anything can go wrong, it will, and usually at the most inopportune moment.

[wjmark]

I am glad to see this topic. For some time now I have had a pet peeve about some of the postings on TV.com

I have wanted to post about the opposite to 'cheap charlies' - people with money who think that poorer (or cheaper) people have no right to be here.

I remember one post, someone was saying that given the air prices in Thailand, there was not only "no reason for anyone" not to fly Cm-BKK (as opposed to the bus), but there was actually "no reason" for anyone not to fly first class.

And those who condemn people who fight being ripped off for 20 baht (in restaurants etc...) - what planet are you from. Do you just accept theft as a normal part of being farang?

And I remember one other post where someone actually said (or iimplied strongly), that unless someone is able to spend 30,000 baht a month, they shouldn't even be here.

There are too many people (retirees and others) here with just a bit too much money and attitude.

All us farang have a right to be here if the Thai government says so...

And we all have (by virtual of being alive) a right to live our life within our means, and to be careful about our futures (or not to be made to feel bad for not having as much money as some other person).

Just because someone can't plunk down 5 million on a house here does not mean that they are inferior or undeserving.

We all know that financial success is based on luck as much as anything else (just the luck of not being born in Thailand makes most of us here so much richer...). Smart creative hard-working people can suffer in poverty through no fault of their own. Dumb plodders can often strike it rich.

My guess is that those who criticize those poorer than them are not part of any wealthy elite, but rather just rich enough that they must feel they are better than others. Wealthy elite wannabees!

I am not going to be happy if someone overcharges me 20 baht. I will say something, and if I have a choice, I won't pay it.

That is true for five baht too. If someone charges me 15 baht for a coffee that is normally 10 baht, I say something, or I walk away!

I will bargain strongly for something if I feel it is too much. On the other hand, my favourite little joke to play on Thai market people is when they quote me some incredibly cheap price on something (eg.: 35 baht for a shirt etc...). Then I ask for a discount - offering them 34 baht. Invariably the fall apart laughing!

Cheap charlie that I am!!! Thanks for the opportunity for a pre-breakfast rant.

WJ

p.s. - what is the opposite derogatory term to "cheap charlie"? I can think of one that has the initials "A.A.", but won't say it here!!!!!!!

[chiang mai]

All the posts on this subject seem appropriate and correct so far since there are several sides to the story. There seems little doubt that the budget conscious chose CM as a place to live and that they are being squeezed financially at present due to changing exchange rates and inflation. But there again there's no rule that says everyone has to live in comfortably in Thailand and many do struggle in CM.

I left CM primarily because of the burning season and the negative effect it was having on my health. But a secondary reason was that I was tired of having too many friends who always moaned about the price of things, sponged whenever possible and their only topic of conversation was how to get more income or complaining how broke they were. Having said those things, I have other friends in CM who have some money and lead fairly normal expat lives and enjoy CM for its relative peace and the absence of the "in your face" tourism and all that goes along with that. Overall I would guess that the original post is probably more the case but not by a huge margin.

[Austhaied]

The Thais have there fair share of "cheap charlies" or "kee neeows" too. It's just that they don't make a big song and dance about it like most farangs. This being due to the fact that they have "krieng jai" which translates as saving face. Which is a good thing (most times), as i for one am sick of hearing farangs drip like they are the center of the universe.

I would imagine that those types of farang would complain wherever they may be on this planet.

They could always buy a one way ticket back to their home countries, but that would mean putting their hands in their "deep" pockets, and that ain't going to happen..

Have a lovely day.

[db1tau]

When I first came to Thailand, I lived on a 500 THB per day budget. Now I'm 33 and spend about 2000-3000 THB per day (with wife and son). There are many backpackers in the age of 18-25 who still don't have a job and came here after school or college and they have to think about every baht they spend. Remember how was your budget when you were about 20 years old?

There are plenty options to live cheap or expensive in chiangmai, it's up to you and your budget and I hope it will stay like this for a long time.

I really like khao san road and the backpacker scene, although I think you get better value for money elsewhere. But if you are on a tight budget, you still can find your place there. Here in Chiang Mai are a lot of backpackers too, I know someone who runs a guesthouse near tapae with rooms for 250 THB and they still have enough customers.

And these people remind the locals that not all farang are rich and that there still is a reason to bargain over 10 THB. Nothing wrong with that.

But I have to admit, a 60 year old retired backpacker bargaining for 5 THB discount looks a bit pathetic.

Thailand is a place where it's nice to stay and live cheap. If you want it expensive and high-class, you will find a lot of other places in the world.

To say it in german: "Geiz ist geil!" ;-)

Marco.

[Ulysses G.]

And I remember one other post where someone actually said (or iimplied strongly), that unless someone is able to spend 30,000 baht a month, they shouldn't even be here.

I think this might have been a post where I said that if a properly registered business owned by a farang consistantly made less than this in profit per month, the business should be retired.

I just don't see how that amount can be worth all of the taxes, visits to the Work Permit office, and red tape B.S. that a foreigner has to go through.

If one can live on 5,000 baht per month, that is fine with me.

[Polsevogn]

First of all, there's a difference between being "stingy" [which I believe is implied by 'cheap charlie' though I'm not very familiar with bar slang so someone please correct me] and "just not having wads of money to throw around for fun".

Very rich people can be stingy.

Very poor people can be quite generous, given the circumstance, and you need not look further than many, many locals in Chiang Mai to see evidence of that.

Also, sometimes choosing a cheaper option for something can be good to not lose your connection with 'the common life' in Chiang Mai, which in my case was what attracted me to Thailand in the first place. Too many people end up spending more and more and become less and less in touch with their surroundings, then sometimes even become bitter even though they have loads of money to spend, but no happiness to buy.

[wjmark]

And I remember one other post where someone actually said (or iimplied strongly), that unless someone is able to spend 30,000 baht a month, they shouldn't even be here.

I think this might have been a post where I said that if a properly registered business owned by a farang consistantly made less than this in profit per month, the business should be retired.

I just don't see how that amount can be worth all of the taxes, visits to the Work Permit office, and red tape B.S. that a foreigner has to go through.

If one can live on 5,000 baht per month, that is fine with me.

No - not what I was referring to! Businesses and business inverstors have different needs etc.

No this was someone lording it over poorer people - not what I have noticed in your posts and pesonality! Cheers, Mark

[Ulysses G.]

No this was someone lording it over poorer people - not what I have noticed in your posts and pesonality! Cheers, Mark

Thank you!

[anonymouse]

And I remember one other post where someone actually said (or iimplied strongly), that unless someone is able to spend 30,000 baht a month, they shouldn't even be here.

I think this might have been a post where I said that if a properly registered business owned by a farang consistantly made less than this in profit per month, the business should be retired.

I just don't see how that amount can be worth all of the taxes, visits to the Work Permit office, and red tape B.S. that a foreigner has to go through.

If one can live on 5,000 baht per month, that is fine with me.

No - not what I was referring to! Businesses and business inverstors have different needs etc.

No this was someone lording it over poorer people - not what I have noticed in your posts and pesonality! Cheers, Mark

Don't you believe it, I've seen UG whipping his staff

[mcgriffith]

I am glad to see this topic. For some time now I have had a pet peeve about some of the postings on TV.com

I have wanted to post about the opposite to 'cheap charlies' - people with money who think that poorer (or cheaper) people have no right to be here.

I remember one post, someone was saying that given the air prices in Thailand, there was not only "no reason for anyone" not to fly Cm-BKK (as opposed to the bus), but there was actually "no reason" for anyone not to fly first class.

And those who condemn people who fight being ripped off for 20 baht (in restaurants etc...) - what planet are you from. Do you just accept theft as a normal part of being farang?

And I remember one other post where someone actually said (or iimplied strongly), that unless someone is able to spend 30,000 baht a month, they shouldn't even be here.

There are too many people (retirees and others) here with just a bit too much money and attitude.

All us farang have a right to be here if the Thai government says so...

And we all have (by virtual of being alive) a right to live our life within our means, and to be careful about our futures (or not to be made to feel bad for not having as much money as some other person).

Just because someone can't plunk down 5 million on a house here does not mean that they are inferior or undeserving.

We all know that financial success is based on luck as much as anything else (just the luck of not being born in Thailand makes most of us here so much richer...). Smart creative hard-working people can suffer in poverty through no fault of their own. Dumb plodders can often strike it rich.

My guess is that those who criticize those poorer than them are not part of any wealthy elite, but rather just rich enough that they must feel they are better than others. Wealthy elite wannabees!

I am not going to be happy if someone overcharges me 20 baht. I will say something, and if I have a choice, I won't pay it.

That is true for five baht too. If someone charges me 15 baht for a coffee that is normally 10 baht, I say something, or I walk away!

I will bargain strongly for something if I feel it is too much. On the other hand, my favourite little joke to play on Thai market people is when they quote me some incredibly cheap price on something (eg.: 35 baht for a shirt etc...). Then I ask for a discount - offering them 34 baht. Invariably the fall apart laughing!

Cheap charlie that I am!!! Thanks for the opportunity for a pre-breakfast rant.

WJ

p.s. - what is the opposite derogatory term to "cheap charlie"? I can think of one that has the initials "A.A.", but won't say it here!!!!!!!

Thought-provoking and well written post.

[chiang mai]

[which I believe is implied by 'cheap charlie' though I'm not very familiar with bar slang so someone please correct me]

Oh really!

[Polsevogn]

I typed it into google, and it only returned hits from Thailand. So it must be local sexpat slang, is it not?

[chiangmaibruce]

Interesting thread. Clearly there are several angles on this issue of personal spending habits.

'Careful with money', 'stingy', 'budget-conscious', 'poor', and so on.

I used the term "cheap charlie" in my last past (on kitchen renovation). I used it in a tongue in cheek way, but really meaning 'budget-conscious'. My own take on this issue is that however much others can or choose to spend on things is up-to-them (although I do confess to trying to bring my Thai wife more around to my way of thinking ).

I am a (late) baby-boomer and my parents instilled in me the virtue of living within your means, minimising debt, and making provision for the future (incl. children). More than that however I personally reject the notions that:

* the more 'things' we own is some meaningful measure of personal success

* you need to pay a lot to get quality or to feel good about yourself, and

* that there is anything inherently more desirable about buying 'brand name' items.

- CB

[KevinHunt]

what is the opposite derogatory term to "cheap charlie"? I can think of one that has the initials "A.A.", but won't say it here!!!!!!!

The only one I can think of is Flash Harry, and to save you the time I googled it .

"Flash Harry is the Cockney spiv character in the St. Trinian's movies. ... "Flash Harry" was played by George Cole in the first four St Trinian's movies ** "

P.S. If you don't know the term 'Cockney Spiv' , then you'll have to seach by yourself, or I'll be here all day!

** Classics!!!

[BigSnake]

Some people have a Budget my friend, enough said.

[Captain Chaos]

I typed it into google, and it only returned hits from Thailand. So it must be local sexpat slang, is it not?

Not necessarily - you probably get Thailand hits back first on the assumption that you're using the google.co.th domain? I'm not an IT bod' though so don't take my word for that!

I've certainly heard the phrase before in the UK though...

Edit: in a spirit of empirical research (and because I'm bored at work ) I googled it on the ".com.sg" domain and it returned hits from Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Washington DC, Rochester Minnesota, Koh Phi Phi blah blah blah. There are certainly a lot of Thailand hits but several are coming up on that outdoor bar in Suk Soi 11 in BKK...

Edited March 5, 2008 by Captain Chaos

[Jingthing]

If it wasn't for us thrift seekers, you free spenders would have nothing to compare yourselves to. Consider those here on weak currencies, many of us have no choice. It is not a sign of moral weakness to make an effort to live within your means. I am not defending extreme rudeness in the name of saving a baht, but am defending standing up for a fair deal. Actually, I don't even think I would fall into the group you would call Cheap Charlies, but I am a bleeding heart who does not judge other human beings who are often just trying to take care of themselves, if they don't, are you gonna?

Edited March 5, 2008 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I typed it into google, and it only returned hits from Thailand. So it must be local sexpat slang, is it not?

Not necessarily - you probably get Thailand hits back first on the assumption that you're using the google.co.th domain? I'm not an IT bod' though so don't take my word for that!

I've certainly heard the phrase before in the UK though...

This type of slang started with the American soliers in Vietnam who brought it over from Korea and spread it around the region.

[chiangmaibruce]

The opposite derogatory term to "cheap charlie"?

Hmm.

'nouveau riche vulgarian' has a certain 'je ne sais qua', n'est pa?

[KevinHunt]

If it wasn't for us thrift seekers, you free spenders would have nothing to compare yourselves to. Consider those here on weak currencies, many of us have no choice. It is not a sign of moral weakness to make an effort to live within your means. I am not defending extreme rudeness in the name of saving a baht, but am defending standing up for a fair deal.

I don't think Cheap Charlie refers to those that are being thrifty. My uderstanding is that it refers to stinginess . I assume that poverty would excuse anyone from being a Cheap Charlie.

Similarly, I don't think that buying a better product that may cost more makes you a Flash Harry.

Cheap Charlie - under-spender?

Flash Harry - Over-spender?

[Jingthing]

I assume that poverty would excuse anyone from being a Cheap Charlie.

In an ideal world, yes. But the reality is that most everyone who is careful with their baht here, whatever the motivation (and how would you know the motivation unless you knew the financial details of the individual) risks being labelled this way here.

[adjan jb]

(a 10 baht restaurant can't be offering the best food, can it?).

This begs the question..

Is Chiang Mai full of cheap Charlies?

This isn't intended to be taken too seriously!! Just an observation.

You don't know much about local markets and eating places, do you ?

Yesterday I had the best Yam Pak Huat I've ever eaten and it costed only 10 bahts. Tonight, I'll another 10 baht dish, Laap Khua or Laap Isaan

Reading the CM forum on a daily basis, it seems to me that lots of people are inquiring about the best pineapple pizza , the ultimate burger or the bloodiest T bone

This begs the question...

Is CM full of American philistines who can't stomach the delicious local food?

This post isn't intended to be taken seriously either.

[slapout]

Guess the man who own a stable of Rolls may call the owner of a Land Rover a cheap charlie. The only time I have heard the term used, the person using the term probably had a hard time making ends meet, while the target had enough to be here on holiday, business or whatever. Maybe, not getting what someone expects or wants may have something to do with the term. I read somewhere that JP Getty was called a cheap charlie by a grandson at one time, doubt if he said that after the old man died.

[johniescfc]

What right has anybody to decide who is a cheap charlie or not.because someone is living in thailand on 10,000 a week doesnt mean he hasnt got plenty of money.

better not get banned again,have to be nice now lol

[johniescfc]

ONE OTHER POINT ABOUT CHEAP CHARLIES.

A mate comes over for 1 month a year and moans about me not going into bars if sangsom/coke is more than 60baht.he comes here and spends 100,000baht in 4 weeks and has a go at me for not buying loads of lady drinks etc.

i ahve spent over 6 million baht here in 4 years and i am the cheap charlie.he is another one who eats farang food instead of thai food.

i am cheap charlie he is an ex mate now.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I typed it into google, and it only returned hits from Thailand. So it must be local sexpat slang, is it not?

Not necessarily - you probably get Thailand hits back first on the assumption that you're using the google.co.th domain? I'm not an IT bod' though so don't take my word for that!

I've certainly heard the phrase before in the UK though...

This type of slang started with the American soliers in Vietnam who brought it over from Korea and spread it around the region.

# Charlie, short for "Victor Charlie" (VC), military slang for the Viet Cong

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie

Seems strange to call thrifty foreigners Charlie's except as a was of dissing someone.

[Rinrada]

I typed it into google, and it only returned hits from Thailand. So it must be local sexpat slang, is it not?

Not necessarily - you probably get Thailand hits back first on the assumption that you're using the google.co.th domain? I'm not an IT bod' though so don't take my word for that!

I've certainly heard the phrase before in the UK though...

This type of slang started with the American soliers in Vietnam who brought it over from Korea and spread it around the region.

amongst other things... ....no no no I thinks the yanks are great...honest.......

anyway CC ...n/a ...simple case of expecting VFM...value for money......hard earned for most of us ...innit.....